UConn men's hoops would be better off in many respects in the A10 than the current AAC.

As I've posted many times (and, yes, I have admitted Memphis has contributed to the "badness" of AAC men's basketball with the Tigers having underachieved), AAC men's basketball has been a semi-flop since the league was started.

Hypothetically, and as a fan of both Memphis and DePaul, I would almost rather be the head coach of DePaul (the worst program in the Big East) than the head coach of Memphis (arguably the "best" program in the AAC).

(10-31-2023 12:33 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  UConn men's hoops would be better off in many respects in the A10 than the current AAC.

As I've posted many times (and, yes, I have admitted Memphis has contributed to the "badness" of AAC men's basketball with the Tigers having underachieved), AAC men's basketball has been a semi-flop since the league was started.

Hypothetically, and as a fan of both Memphis and DePaul, I would almost rather be the head coach DePaul (the worst program in the Big East) than the head coach of Memphis (arguably the "best" program in the AAC).

Why has AAC basketball been a semi-flop in your opinion, bill dazzle???

(10-31-2023 12:33 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  UConn men's hoops would be better off in many respects in the A10 than the current AAC.

As I've posted many times (and, yes, I have admitted Memphis has contributed to the "badness" of AAC men's basketball with the Tigers having underachieved), AAC men's basketball has been a semi-flop since the league was started.

Hypothetically, and as a fan of both Memphis and DePaul, I would almost rather be the head coach DePaul (the worst program in the Big East) than the head coach of Memphis (arguably the "best" program in the AAC).

So you’d rather make less money to have a harder time making the tournament and play in front of significantly smaller crowds? Interesting choice.

Edit: just saw you said almost. Still seems a little silly to think you’d even consider taking the Depaul job over the Memphis job.

(10-31-2023 01:01 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  

(10-31-2023 12:33 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  UConn men's hoops would be better off in many respects in the A10 than the current AAC.

As I've posted many times (and, yes, I have admitted Memphis has contributed to the "badness" of AAC men's basketball with the Tigers having underachieved), AAC men's basketball has been a semi-flop since the league was started.

Hypothetically, and as a fan of both Memphis and DePaul, I would almost rather be the head coach DePaul (the worst program in the Big East) than the head coach of Memphis (arguably the "best" program in the AAC).

Why has AAC basketball been a semi-flop in your opinion, bill dazzle???

I could pen a doctoral dissertation regarding this topic, Dawg, with context provided via information I would include by having followed the old Metro Conference, the former The Great Midwest and the original C-USA. I have seen first-hand and since about 1972, the evolution of, for example, DePaul, Cincinnati, Louisville, Marquette, Houston, Memphis, Tulsa and Temple.

But in short, and as many have posted, the AAC's having underachieved in men's hoops has been the result of bad coaching hires (many of those coaches looked good on paper) and injuries/ineligibilities to key players (Memphis losing James Wiseman, for example, with the Tigers likely having had to settle for an NIT bid because of it). This led to simultaneous deterioration of many long-time quality programs.

Add to that the fact that the fan bases of various programs (specifically Temple, USF, UConn, Cincinnati, Houston, Tulane, SMU and Memphis) likely had minimal interest in being associated with the league given their schools' past affiliations with, variously, the A10, the Metro, the Big East and the SWC. This yielded poor attendance, which created a negative "mid-major" perception — both from fans of AAC schools and those fans of schools in other leagues.

With a few exceptions (Houston's tremendous run, Memphis' strong recruiting and NIT title, and Cincy's multiple NCAA Tournament bids), the league has been a semi-flop.

(10-31-2023 01:05 PM)WhoseHouse? Wrote:  

(10-31-2023 12:33 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  UConn men's hoops would be better off in many respects in the A10 than the current AAC.

As I've posted many times (and, yes, I have admitted Memphis has contributed to the "badness" of AAC men's basketball with the Tigers having underachieved), AAC men's basketball has been a semi-flop since the league was started.

Hypothetically, and as a fan of both Memphis and DePaul, I would almost rather be the head coach DePaul (the worst program in the Big East) than the head coach of Memphis (arguably the "best" program in the AAC).

So you’d rather make less money to have a harder time making the tournament and play in front of significantly smaller crowds? Interesting choice.

Edit: just saw you said almost. Still seems a little silly to think you’d even consider taking the Depaul job over the Memphis job.

On the surface, your point makes sense, WhoseHouse. So that should show you how much I dislike having Memphis in the AAC for men's basketball. It is almost depressing. Now, for football, baseball and soccer, the AAC is very suitable for Memphis (since the Big 12 and ACC are not options).

In a perfect world, I would have Memphis hoops in the Big 12, ACC or Big East, Memphis football in the Big 12 and Memphis baseball in the ACC.

(10-31-2023 02:14 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(10-31-2023 01:05 PM)WhoseHouse? Wrote:  

(10-31-2023 12:33 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  UConn men's hoops would be better off in many respects in the A10 than the current AAC.

As I've posted many times (and, yes, I have admitted Memphis has contributed to the "badness" of AAC men's basketball with the Tigers having underachieved), AAC men's basketball has been a semi-flop since the league was started.

Hypothetically, and as a fan of both Memphis and DePaul, I would almost rather be the head coach DePaul (the worst program in the Big East) than the head coach of Memphis (arguably the "best" program in the AAC).

So you’d rather make less money to have a harder time making the tournament and play in front of significantly smaller crowds? Interesting choice.

Edit: just saw you said almost. Still seems a little silly to think you’d even consider taking the Depaul job over the Memphis job.

On the surface, your point makes sense, WhoseHouse. So that should show you how much I dislike having Memphis in the AAC for men's basketball. It is almost depressing. Now, for football, baseball and soccer, the AAC is very suitable for Memphis (since the Big 12 and ACC are not options).

In a perfect world, I would have Memphis hoops in the Big 12, ACC or Big East, Memphis football in the Big 12 and Memphis baseball in the ACC.

I can understand wanting Memphis to be in a better league (and personally I feel it should be) but even with having a lesser conference affiliation Memphis' program is still in far better shape than Depaul's. Last year's attendance numbers for both programs were 11,444 (Memphis) and 4,045 (Depaul). Memphis has landed two #1 recruiting classes in the last 5 years and another two top 25 classes. Depaul's last five recruiting classes have been ranked #33, #43, #61, #52, and #96. Memphis is coming off back to back NCAAT appearances and has won 20+ games in 6 straight seasons. Depaul's last tourney appearance was in 2004 and has only had one winning season in the last 16 years. Memphis on the other hand hasn't had a losing season since before Calipari got to town. Things would have to go really south for Memphis in AAC 2.0 for there to be any real debate about which program would you rather have. But I don't see that happening. If anything I think Penny's going to dominate AAC 2.0 much the same way Cal dominated CUSA 2.0.

(10-31-2023 04:12 PM)WhoseHouse? Wrote:  

(10-31-2023 02:14 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(10-31-2023 01:05 PM)WhoseHouse? Wrote:  

(10-31-2023 12:33 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  UConn men's hoops would be better off in many respects in the A10 than the current AAC.

As I've posted many times (and, yes, I have admitted Memphis has contributed to the "badness" of AAC men's basketball with the Tigers having underachieved), AAC men's basketball has been a semi-flop since the league was started.

Hypothetically, and as a fan of both Memphis and DePaul, I would almost rather be the head coach DePaul (the worst program in the Big East) than the head coach of Memphis (arguably the "best" program in the AAC).

So you’d rather make less money to have a harder time making the tournament and play in front of significantly smaller crowds? Interesting choice.

Edit: just saw you said almost. Still seems a little silly to think you’d even consider taking the Depaul job over the Memphis job.

On the surface, your point makes sense, WhoseHouse. So that should show you how much I dislike having Memphis in the AAC for men's basketball. It is almost depressing. Now, for football, baseball and soccer, the AAC is very suitable for Memphis (since the Big 12 and ACC are not options).

In a perfect world, I would have Memphis hoops in the Big 12, ACC or Big East, Memphis football in the Big 12 and Memphis baseball in the ACC.

I can understand wanting Memphis to be in a better league (and personally I feel it should be) but even with having a lesser conference affiliation Memphis' program is still in far better shape than Depaul's. Last year's attendance numbers for both programs were 11,444 (Memphis) and 4,045 (Depaul). Memphis has landed two #1 recruiting classes in the last 5 years and another two top 25 classes. Depaul's last five recruiting classes have been ranked #33, #43, #61, #52, and #96. Memphis is coming off back to back NCAAT appearances and has won 20+ games in 6 straight seasons. Depaul's last tourney appearance was in 2004 and has only had one winning season in the last 16 years. Memphis on the other hand hasn't had a losing season since before Calipari got to town. Things would have to go really south for Memphis in AAC 2.0 for there to be any real debate about which program would you rather have. But I don't see that happening. If anything I think Penny's going to dominate AAC 2.0 much the same way Cal dominated CUSA 2.0.

As a fan of both Memphis and DePaul (which is one reason I used DePaul as the counter to Memphis), I clearly see the advantages of, hypothetically, being the coach of the Tigers as to being the coach of the Blue Demons.

In fact, I would argue that very few programs that are members of power men's hoops leagues have as many "built-in advantages" as Memphis. Hypothetically, put a top-notch coach at the helm of the Tiger program (Penny is improving but he's not a Calipari, at least yet) and place the program in the Big 12 ... and watch out. As a Houston fan, you can relate, as the Cougar program has lots of plusses such as location in a hoops-mad city and great history/tradition (congrats on the Big 12, too; earned and deserved).

But I would also argue that DePaul (I have closely followed the program since 1987) is a "semi-sleeping giant." There are simply too many attractive (at least on paper) elements for the Blue Demon program to be so mediocre for so long. Lots of folks don't realize DePaul is the largest Catholic university based on enrollment in the United States. And the prep talent level in Chicago remains strong.

I trust your prediction about Penny is proved correct.

Before the recent ACC expansion, I thought UConn would eventually find its way into the ACC. I'm not so sure now that the ACC has expanded out west, the logical next step would be to find a dance partner for SMU.

(10-31-2023 07:07 PM)Garrettabc Wrote:  Before the recent ACC expansion, I thought UConn would eventually find its way into the ACC. I'm not so sure now that the ACC has expanded out west, the logical next step would be to find a dance partner for SMU.

In UConn's defense, the last ACC expansion basically required a former US President and a former Cabinet member lobbying for expansion. Let that sink in a moment.

SMU gives the ACC the superior academic profile that UConn doesnt have and it gives them a place for Stanford and Cal's olympic sports to play "home" games. Its also a new market in a highly populated area. Thats more valuable than what UConn brings. Success on the field means nothing. Its the same reason why the ACC passed on West Virginia for decades. They cant bring them what SMU does either.

(11-01-2023 05:04 AM)darkdragon99 Wrote:  SMU gives the ACC the superior academic profile that UConn doesnt have and it gives them a place for Stanford and Cal's olympic sports to play "home" games. Its also a new market in a highly populated area. Thats more valuable than what UConn brings. Success on the field means nothing. Its the same reason why the ACC passed on West Virginia for decades. They cant bring them what SMU does either.

USN&WR rankings:
Connecticut: 58
SMU: 72

It's a lie SMU's academic profile is better than UConn's and this is the USN&WR inflating private school rankings.

(10-31-2023 04:12 PM)WhoseHouse? Wrote:  

(10-31-2023 02:14 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(10-31-2023 01:05 PM)WhoseHouse? Wrote:  

(10-31-2023 12:33 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  UConn men's hoops would be better off in many respects in the A10 than the current AAC.

As I've posted many times (and, yes, I have admitted Memphis has contributed to the "badness" of AAC men's basketball with the Tigers having underachieved), AAC men's basketball has been a semi-flop since the league was started.

Hypothetically, and as a fan of both Memphis and DePaul, I would almost rather be the head coach DePaul (the worst program in the Big East) than the head coach of Memphis (arguably the "best" program in the AAC).

So you’d rather make less money to have a harder time making the tournament and play in front of significantly smaller crowds? Interesting choice.

Edit: just saw you said almost. Still seems a little silly to think you’d even consider taking the Depaul job over the Memphis job.

On the surface, your point makes sense, WhoseHouse. So that should show you how much I dislike having Memphis in the AAC for men's basketball. It is almost depressing. Now, for football, baseball and soccer, the AAC is very suitable for Memphis (since the Big 12 and ACC are not options).

In a perfect world, I would have Memphis hoops in the Big 12, ACC or Big East, Memphis football in the Big 12 and Memphis baseball in the ACC.

I can understand wanting Memphis to be in a better league (and personally I feel it should be) but even with having a lesser conference affiliation Memphis' program is still in far better shape than Depaul's. Last year's attendance numbers for both programs were 11,444 (Memphis) and 4,045 (Depaul). Memphis has landed two #1 recruiting classes in the last 5 years and another two top 25 classes. Depaul's last five recruiting classes have been ranked #33, #43, #61, #52, and #96. Memphis is coming off back to back NCAAT appearances and has won 20+ games in 6 straight seasons. Depaul's last tourney appearance was in 2004 and has only had one winning season in the last 16 years. Memphis on the other hand hasn't had a losing season since before Calipari got to town. Things would have to go really south for Memphis in AAC 2.0 for there to be any real debate about which program would you rather have. But I don't see that happening. If anything I think Penny's going to dominate AAC 2.0 much the same way Cal dominated CUSA 2.0.

Memphis's program is obviously inferior to UConn's, but IMO it has one advantage: Memphis hoops seems to be its own ecoverse. It is basically independent, in that it doesn't derive strength from its conference. The program is supported very strongly locally and that seems to persist no matter what conference Memphis is in, good or bad. This has probably developed out of necessity, as Memphis has never had the advantage of being in a stable Power conference. So thriving in a league like the AAC isn't a problem for it, as it did the same in prior leagues like the MVC, CUSA, Metro, etc.

UConn hoops on the other hand was forged in the crucible of the Big East, and so IMO it has a Big East identity stamped on its culture. That makes it more vulnerable to decline when in another league, particularly a non-Power league like the AAC.

(11-01-2023 05:04 AM)darkdragon99 Wrote:  SMU gives the ACC the superior academic profile that UConn doesnt have and it gives them a place for Stanford and Cal's olympic sports to play "home" games. Its also a new market in a highly populated area. Thats more valuable than what UConn brings. Success on the field means nothing. Its the same reason why the ACC passed on West Virginia for decades. They cant bring them what SMU does either.

You might want to consider doing some basic fact-checking before you post such nonsense.

(11-01-2023 08:38 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(10-31-2023 04:12 PM)WhoseHouse? Wrote:  

(10-31-2023 02:14 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(10-31-2023 01:05 PM)WhoseHouse? Wrote:  

(10-31-2023 12:33 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  UConn men's hoops would be better off in many respects in the A10 than the current AAC.

As I've posted many times (and, yes, I have admitted Memphis has contributed to the "badness" of AAC men's basketball with the Tigers having underachieved), AAC men's basketball has been a semi-flop since the league was started.

Hypothetically, and as a fan of both Memphis and DePaul, I would almost rather be the head coach DePaul (the worst program in the Big East) than the head coach of Memphis (arguably the "best" program in the AAC).

So you’d rather make less money to have a harder time making the tournament and play in front of significantly smaller crowds? Interesting choice.

Edit: just saw you said almost. Still seems a little silly to think you’d even consider taking the Depaul job over the Memphis job.

On the surface, your point makes sense, WhoseHouse. So that should show you how much I dislike having Memphis in the AAC for men's basketball. It is almost depressing. Now, for football, baseball and soccer, the AAC is very suitable for Memphis (since the Big 12 and ACC are not options).

In a perfect world, I would have Memphis hoops in the Big 12, ACC or Big East, Memphis football in the Big 12 and Memphis baseball in the ACC.

I can understand wanting Memphis to be in a better league (and personally I feel it should be) but even with having a lesser conference affiliation Memphis' program is still in far better shape than Depaul's. Last year's attendance numbers for both programs were 11,444 (Memphis) and 4,045 (Depaul). Memphis has landed two #1 recruiting classes in the last 5 years and another two top 25 classes. Depaul's last five recruiting classes have been ranked #33, #43, #61, #52, and #96. Memphis is coming off back to back NCAAT appearances and has won 20+ games in 6 straight seasons. Depaul's last tourney appearance was in 2004 and has only had one winning season in the last 16 years. Memphis on the other hand hasn't had a losing season since before Calipari got to town. Things would have to go really south for Memphis in AAC 2.0 for there to be any real debate about which program would you rather have. But I don't see that happening. If anything I think Penny's going to dominate AAC 2.0 much the same way Cal dominated CUSA 2.0.

Memphis's program is obviously inferior to UConn's, but IMO it has one advantage: Memphis hoops seems to be its own ecoverse. It is basically independent, in that it doesn't derive strength from its conference. The program is supported very strongly locally and that seems to persist no matter what conference Memphis is in, good or bad. This has probably developed out of necessity, as Memphis has never had the advantage of being in a stable Power conference. So thriving in a league like the AAC isn't a problem for it, as it did the same in prior leagues like the MVC, CUSA, Metro, etc.

UConn hoops on the other hand was forged in the crucible of the Big East, and so IMO it has a Big East identity stamped on its culture. That makes it more vulnerable to decline when in another league, particularly a non-Power league like the AAC.

I agree with all this, QV.

Worth noting: The Metro Conference from 1975 to 1991 was a de facto "power men's basketball league" for its time (though the term "power" was not used back then). However, the Metro simply never had the stability (good observation on your part) that could benefit Memphis long term.

You also make an excellent point about Memphis hoops operating, to an extent, independently of whatever league it has been in/is in/will be in. Memphis hoops is "its own thing." In that respect, Memphis and Gonzaga mens' basketball are very similar (though that is about the only similarity the two share).

Also, very good point about UConn hoops being associated with the Big East in terms of history and perception. And that will make it very interesting, more than otherwise, to see how UConn does if (or when) it departs for an all-sports league.

A quick search showed average January temperatures in Chicago is 32 and Memphis is 50.

I’m taking the Memphis job.

(11-01-2023 09:11 AM)AssKickingChicken Wrote:  A quick search showed average January temperatures in Chicago is 32 and Memphis is 50.

I’m taking the Memphis job.

I'd much rather live in Chicago than Memphis, though Memphis has its good points.

(11-01-2023 09:25 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(11-01-2023 09:11 AM)AssKickingChicken Wrote:  A quick search showed average January temperatures in Chicago is 32 and Memphis is 50.

I’m taking the Memphis job.

I'd much rather live in Chicago than Memphis, though Memphis has its good points.

Living in Chicago (I did for 3.5 years and strongly enjoyed it other than the winters) is one reason I noted (in my odd hypothetical) that I would rather have the DePaul head coaching job, in some respects, than the Memphis job. I was born in Memphis and am fond of the city in various ways (Wiseacre Beer, the zoo, the historic architecture, the parkways, the authentic music, etc.). But Chicago is an amazing urban place that offers anything you might ever want — and a car is not needed.

One of the great things about having the Memphis men's hoops job: a major chunk of the city's residents actually care about the Tigers. You don't get that in Chicago with DePaul.

I think UConn will get into the ACC eventually. Once Clemson, Florida State and North Carolina leave.

(11-01-2023 06:05 PM)Realignment Wrote:  I think UConn will get into the ACC eventually. Once Clemson, Florida State and North Carolina leave.

Probably.

Or if it gets really bad recruit ACC schools to a new BE with football again.

(11-01-2023 06:05 PM)Realignment Wrote:  I think UConn will get into the ACC eventually. Once Clemson, Florida State and North Carolina leave.

I think Syracuse will get back into the Big East eventually. Once Clemson, Florida State and North Caroline leave.