How do you spell Apathy? We spell it MTSU FB!!!!!! I have "resigned" myself to the fact that Stock will never "resign" or retire and McPhee and Massaro will never fire him. Oh BTW, congrats to you, Aggies!

I appreciate the help getting us to 7 losses NMSU. I really thought we would win this and get to a bowl (contract extension for Rick). Glad that we’re one year closer to getting rid of that guy.

To be honest, there really are no words left to describe this situation.

This is an unprecedented set of circumstances in Division I football that has never happened before. The university's leadership has completely failed. And there is a growing sentiment that its by design and intentional.

(11-06-2023 08:52 AM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote:  To be honest, there really are no words left to describe this situation.

This is an unprecedented set of circumstances in Division I football that has never happened before. The university's leadership has completely failed. And there is a growing sentiment that its by design and intentional.

Why though? Why do they want to run the program into the ground? This is a serious question, because I am not really educated on the situation, but I do know the overall rich history of MTSU football.

(11-06-2023 08:52 AM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote:  To be honest, there really are no words left to describe this situation.

This is an unprecedented set of circumstances in Division I football that has never happened before. The university's leadership has completely failed. And there is a growing sentiment that its by design and intentional.

It's unprecedented that a coach that has had some success at a university is given contract extensions?

(11-06-2023 09:11 AM)JJOHN368 Wrote:  

(11-06-2023 08:52 AM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote:  To be honest, there really are no words left to describe this situation.

This is an unprecedented set of circumstances in Division I football that has never happened before. The university's leadership has completely failed. And there is a growing sentiment that its by design and intentional.

Why though? Why do they want to run the program into the ground? This is a serious question, because I am not really educated on the situation, but I do know the overall rich history of MTSU football.

There are a number of reasons that begins with power and ego. At the crux of the matter is that the state of Tennessee operates higher education in a way that virtually no other state in the union does. Most states want all their institutions to grow, prosper, and achieve. Not in Tennessee. In this state nothing can be seen or done as usurping the almighty University of Tennessee. Having gone to both schools and worked in both athletic departments, I have a unique appreciation for seeing this play out. UT gets the vast majority of everything that matters. Everyone else in the state fights over scraps. The exception is Memphis, which has been able to carve out a niche largely thanks to flexing some legislative power in Nashville.

So, the theory is that the state has left weak yes men to do the bidding of the state in Murfreesboro. And couple of ways we have seen this play out is not only halting the university's growth but literally reducing enrollment and what you are seeing play out with our football program. At one point, MT was the largest university in the state at more than 25K students. We're like at 17 or 18K now.

(11-06-2023 09:48 AM)PojoaquePosse Wrote:  

(11-06-2023 08:52 AM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote:  To be honest, there really are no words left to describe this situation.

This is an unprecedented set of circumstances in Division I football that has never happened before. The university's leadership has completely failed. And there is a growing sentiment that its by design and intentional.

It's unprecedented that a coach that has had some success at a university is given contract extensions?

It's unprecedented that a coach who is .500 with no conference championships has been allowed to stay at the same school for nearly two decades. I can't find an example of more than 12 years.

Moreover, he's given contract extensions for six wins - not for success. Find me another situation where a coach gets a bonus for a .500 season. He not only gets one for it, but it's a flippin $1 million bonus every time he reaches a .500 season.

(11-06-2023 10:05 AM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote:  

(11-06-2023 09:48 AM)PojoaquePosse Wrote:  

(11-06-2023 08:52 AM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote:  To be honest, there really are no words left to describe this situation.

This is an unprecedented set of circumstances in Division I football that has never happened before. The university's leadership has completely failed. And there is a growing sentiment that its by design and intentional.

It's unprecedented that a coach that has had some success at a university is given contract extensions?

It's unprecedented that a coach who is .500 with no conference championships has been allowed to stay at the same school for nearly two decades. I can't find an example of more than 12 years.

Moreover, he's given contract extensions for six wins - not for success. Find me another situation where a coach gets a bonus for a .500 season. He not only gets one for it, but it's a flippin $1 million bonus every time he reaches a .500 season.

At NMSU we are ready to build statues when coaches get to 6 wins.

(11-06-2023 10:13 AM)PojoaquePosse Wrote:  

(11-06-2023 10:05 AM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote:  

(11-06-2023 09:48 AM)PojoaquePosse Wrote:  

(11-06-2023 08:52 AM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote:  To be honest, there really are no words left to describe this situation.

This is an unprecedented set of circumstances in Division I football that has never happened before. The university's leadership has completely failed. And there is a growing sentiment that its by design and intentional.

It's unprecedented that a coach that has had some success at a university is given contract extensions?

It's unprecedented that a coach who is .500 with no conference championships has been allowed to stay at the same school for nearly two decades. I can't find an example of more than 12 years.

Moreover, he's given contract extensions for six wins - not for success. Find me another situation where a coach gets a bonus for a .500 season. He not only gets one for it, but it's a flippin $1 million bonus every time he reaches a .500 season.

At NMSU we are ready to build statues when coaches get to 6 wins.

But the reality proves just how distorted and F'd up this situation is for us.

Kill received $25,000 for seven wins in 2022 and $10,000 for win against rival New Mexico.

That's rational incentives. At MT, that's a million dollars/extra year. I hope that puts in perspective.

(11-06-2023 10:04 AM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote:  

(11-06-2023 09:11 AM)JJOHN368 Wrote:  

(11-06-2023 08:52 AM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote:  To be honest, there really are no words left to describe this situation.

This is an unprecedented set of circumstances in Division I football that has never happened before. The university's leadership has completely failed. And there is a growing sentiment that its by design and intentional.

Why though? Why do they want to run the program into the ground? This is a serious question, because I am not really educated on the situation, but I do know the overall rich history of MTSU football.

There are a number of reasons that begins with power and ego. At the crux of the matter is that the state of Tennessee operates higher education in a way that virtually no other state in the union does. Most states want all their institutions to grow, prosper, and achieve. Not in Tennessee. In this state nothing can be seen or done as usurping the almighty University of Tennessee. Having gone to both schools and worked in both athletic departments, I have a unique appreciation for seeing this play out. UT gets the vast majority of everything that matters. Everyone else in the state fights over scraps. The exception is Memphis, which has been able to carve out a niche largely thanks to flexing some legislative power in Nashville.

So, the theory is that the state has left weak yes men to do the bidding of the state in Murfreesboro. And couple of ways we have seen this play out is not only halting the university's growth but literally reducing enrollment and what you are seeing play out with our football program. At one point, MT was the largest university in the state at more than 25K students. We're like at 17 or 18K now.

You are not unique. Santa Fe gives millions of dollars to NuM and leaves us with scraps. A lot of the SF legislators went to NuM and you have the proximity of Albuquerque to SF all working against NMSU/Las Cruces.

I'll give you a crazy example. When NMSU joined the WAC, the University gave athletics $10M to help fund athletics. The state got wind of it and ordered NMSU to pay the money back. Shortly after, NuM ran several budget deficits and main campus had to pay the shortfalls. The legislature approved those and never required NuM to pay it back.

I could go on but you get the picture. NMSU: doing more with less.

(11-06-2023 10:17 AM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote:  

(11-06-2023 10:13 AM)PojoaquePosse Wrote:  

(11-06-2023 10:05 AM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote:  

(11-06-2023 09:48 AM)PojoaquePosse Wrote:  

(11-06-2023 08:52 AM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote:  To be honest, there really are no words left to describe this situation.

This is an unprecedented set of circumstances in Division I football that has never happened before. The university's leadership has completely failed. And there is a growing sentiment that its by design and intentional.

It's unprecedented that a coach that has had some success at a university is given contract extensions?

It's unprecedented that a coach who is .500 with no conference championships has been allowed to stay at the same school for nearly two decades. I can't find an example of more than 12 years.

Moreover, he's given contract extensions for six wins - not for success. Find me another situation where a coach gets a bonus for a .500 season. He not only gets one for it, but it's a flippin $1 million bonus every time he reaches a .500 season.

At NMSU we are ready to build statues when coaches get to 6 wins.

But the reality proves just how distorted and F'd up this situation is for us.

Kill received $25,000 for seven wins in 2022 and $10,000 for win against rival New Mexico.

That's rational incentives. At MT, that's a million dollars/extra year. I hope that puts in perspective.

We don't have the money to pay more. It's not rational. It's the reality of our budget and situation.

(11-06-2023 10:30 AM)PojoaquePosse Wrote:  

(11-06-2023 10:17 AM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote:  

(11-06-2023 10:13 AM)PojoaquePosse Wrote:  

(11-06-2023 10:05 AM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote:  

(11-06-2023 09:48 AM)PojoaquePosse Wrote:  It's unprecedented that a coach that has had some success at a university is given contract extensions?

It's unprecedented that a coach who is .500 with no conference championships has been allowed to stay at the same school for nearly two decades. I can't find an example of more than 12 years.

Moreover, he's given contract extensions for six wins - not for success. Find me another situation where a coach gets a bonus for a .500 season. He not only gets one for it, but it's a flippin $1 million bonus every time he reaches a .500 season.

At NMSU we are ready to build statues when coaches get to 6 wins.

But the reality proves just how distorted and F'd up this situation is for us.

Kill received $25,000 for seven wins in 2022 and $10,000 for win against rival New Mexico.

That's rational incentives. At MT, that's a million dollars/extra year. I hope that puts in perspective.

We don't have the money to pay more. It's not rational. It's the reality of our budget and situation.

I think the main point is our university is oozing with potential. We’re the only public university in one of the fastest growing metros in the country. We’ve historically had successful programs. The issue our fan base has is mediocre results should not be rewarded for a coach that’s finishing up his 18th season. If we’re keeping someone that long we should be in the hunt for a conference title every year. The issue we have is we do enough to be an average team that rewards the coach for it. I would happily take a new coach that bombs for 3 seasons and gets fired over what we have. We know exactly what every season will look like with Rick leading the program. We need something to look forward to. Even hope is something to look forward to. We will always finish between 4-8 and 7-5 with Rick. Thank God basketball starts today because we actually have a revenue sport that has some championship expectations for a change.

(11-06-2023 10:30 AM)PojoaquePosse Wrote:  

(11-06-2023 10:17 AM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote:  

(11-06-2023 10:13 AM)PojoaquePosse Wrote:  

(11-06-2023 10:05 AM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote:  

(11-06-2023 09:48 AM)PojoaquePosse Wrote:  It's unprecedented that a coach that has had some success at a university is given contract extensions?

It's unprecedented that a coach who is .500 with no conference championships has been allowed to stay at the same school for nearly two decades. I can't find an example of more than 12 years.

Moreover, he's given contract extensions for six wins - not for success. Find me another situation where a coach gets a bonus for a .500 season. He not only gets one for it, but it's a flippin $1 million bonus every time he reaches a .500 season.

At NMSU we are ready to build statues when coaches get to 6 wins.

But the reality proves just how distorted and F'd up this situation is for us.

Kill received $25,000 for seven wins in 2022 and $10,000 for win against rival New Mexico.

That's rational incentives. At MT, that's a million dollars/extra year. I hope that puts in perspective.

We don't have the money to pay more. It's not rational. It's the reality of our budget and situation.

Your budget is nearly identical to ours.

If you look at some of the highest budgeted G5 programs, take a look at the incentives:

Barry Odom at UNLV
Making the Mountain West Conference Title Game: $50,000.
Winning the conference title: $50,000.
Making a bowl game: $50,000.
Getting into the Top 25: $25,000.
Winning Mountain West Conference Coach of the Year: $25,000.

If he maxes out all his incentives: $250,000.
If he only gets to six wins and bowl: $50,000. Rick Stockstill a miillion.

Alex Golesh at USF gets $10,000 for reach eight wins. Rick Stockstill a miillion for two less.

Brady Hoke at SDSU? Well, he gets $75K for winning a conference title. And $50K for a bowl game. Rick Stockstill a miillion.

Again, not sure what point you're trying to make, but what's happening here is the most ridiculous thing that's ever happened in the history of college football with respect to a coaches contract.

(11-06-2023 12:16 PM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote:  

(11-06-2023 10:30 AM)PojoaquePosse Wrote:  

(11-06-2023 10:17 AM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote:  

(11-06-2023 10:13 AM)PojoaquePosse Wrote:  

(11-06-2023 10:05 AM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote:  It's unprecedented that a coach who is .500 with no conference championships has been allowed to stay at the same school for nearly two decades. I can't find an example of more than 12 years.

Moreover, he's given contract extensions for six wins - not for success. Find me another situation where a coach gets a bonus for a .500 season. He not only gets one for it, but it's a flippin $1 million bonus every time he reaches a .500 season.

At NMSU we are ready to build statues when coaches get to 6 wins.

But the reality proves just how distorted and F'd up this situation is for us.

Kill received $25,000 for seven wins in 2022 and $10,000 for win against rival New Mexico.

That's rational incentives. At MT, that's a million dollars/extra year. I hope that puts in perspective.

We don't have the money to pay more. It's not rational. It's the reality of our budget and situation.

Your budget is nearly identical to ours.

If you look at some of the highest budgeted G5 programs, take a look at the incentives:

Barry Odom at UNLV
Making the Mountain West Conference Title Game: $50,000.
Winning the conference title: $50,000.
Making a bowl game: $50,000.
Getting into the Top 25: $25,000.
Winning Mountain West Conference Coach of the Year: $25,000.

If he maxes out all his incentives: $250,000.
If he only gets to six wins and bowl: $50,000. Rick Stockstill a miillion.

Alex Golesh at USF gets $10,000 for reach eight wins. Rick Stockstill a miillion for two less.

Brady Hoke at SDSU? Well, he gets $75K for winning a conference title. And $50K for a bowl game. Rick Stockstill a miillion.

Again, not sure what point you're trying to make, but what's happening here is the most ridiculous thing that's ever happened in the history of college football with respect to a coaches contract.

That is insane at G5 level to get 1 million for 6 wins or even the P5 level