(12-13-2023 10:14 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  I would count 2013 and not just out of a BCS AQ status technicality, but how the loss of that AQ status and the dissolution of the structure turned away the likes of San Diego State, Boise State, and potentially Air Force football.

It might have been a formality, but, there was quite a toll to that whole thing. The auto-access thing mattered. When it was off the table and the AAC was not allowed to hang with the other majors, those in that conference that final season were in something that counted them “in the club.” Boise and SDSU cared enough to make a mess of leaving and then rejoining Mountain West over it.

AAC would have done better to go after the Texas and the best MWC schools at the time than adding a school like Tulsa and Tulane at the time. They could have gotten Fresno State, UNR, Colorado State, Air Force, and UTSA at the time even though moving up, shows signs that they would become a power house football at the G5 level that takes P5 scalps.

(12-11-2023 01:20 PM)YNot Wrote:  

(12-11-2023 01:17 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(12-11-2023 12:29 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Using 1992, roughly the end of the realignment that was kicked off by Penn St’s 1989 Big 10 membership announcement, there’s been 60 programs who have been “in the club” status the entire time, whether that meant being in a Bowl Coalition/Bowl Alliance conference, a BCS conference, or the so-called P5 of the CFP era (contract bowl status). Here are the schools that have spent time in and out of that status:

Temple 1992-2004
UConn 2004-2013
USF 2005-2013
UCF 2023-
Cincinnati 2005-2013, 2023-
Louisville 2005-
TCU 1992-1995, 2012-
SMU 1992-1995, 2024-
Houston 1992-1995, 2023-
Rice 1992-1995
Utah 2011-
BYU 2023-
Washington St 1992-2023
Oregon St 1992-2023

*I’m not including schools who were in the AAC under the last year of the BCS. Technically, Temple would count for 2012-2013 and Memphis, UCF, Houston, and SMU for 2013.

The way Houston, TCU, SMU and Cincinnati worked their way back in has to be a little encouraging to Washington St. and Oregon St.

But you can go all the way back to the 60s and the only school you would add to that list would be Tulane, who was an SEC member from 1933-1965.

OSU and Wazzu will feel right at home with the MWC lineup. They are similar institutions to and have similar fan bases as most MWC schools. They will miss the media money, for sure. But, the MWC is where they have belonged all along.

You’d get **** on for this take in most places but it’s correct. Not like BYU and Utah deserve a seat at the P2 table, but when we got to the PAC it was clear that a couple of schools looked a lot more like our old MWC conference mates than the PAC schools they were playing with. I’m sure you had the same realization in the B12.

(12-11-2023 12:29 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Using 1992, roughly the end of the realignment that was kicked off by Penn St’s 1989 Big 10 membership announcement, there’s been 60 programs who have been “in the club” status the entire time, whether that meant being in a Bowl Coalition/Bowl Alliance conference, a BCS conference, or the so-called P5 of the CFP era (contract bowl status). Here are the schools that have spent time in and out of that status:

Temple 1992-2004
UConn 2004-2013
USF 2005-2013
UCF 2023-
Cincinnati 2005-2013, 2023-
Louisville 2005-
TCU 1992-1995, 2012-
SMU 1992-1995, 2024-
Houston 1992-1995, 2023-
Rice 1992-1995
Utah 2011-
BYU 2023-
Washington St 1992-2023
Oregon St 1992-2023

*I’m not including schools who were in the AAC under the last year of the BCS. Technically, Temple would count for 2012-2013 and Memphis, UCF, Houston, and SMU for 2013.

I don't see why these schools could not be added to the P2 in the future.

(12-14-2023 01:51 PM)jrj84105 Wrote:  

(12-11-2023 01:20 PM)YNot Wrote:  

(12-11-2023 01:17 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(12-11-2023 12:29 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Using 1992, roughly the end of the realignment that was kicked off by Penn St’s 1989 Big 10 membership announcement, there’s been 60 programs who have been “in the club” status the entire time, whether that meant being in a Bowl Coalition/Bowl Alliance conference, a BCS conference, or the so-called P5 of the CFP era (contract bowl status). Here are the schools that have spent time in and out of that status:

Temple 1992-2004
UConn 2004-2013
USF 2005-2013
UCF 2023-
Cincinnati 2005-2013, 2023-
Louisville 2005-
TCU 1992-1995, 2012-
SMU 1992-1995, 2024-
Houston 1992-1995, 2023-
Rice 1992-1995
Utah 2011-
BYU 2023-
Washington St 1992-2023
Oregon St 1992-2023

*I’m not including schools who were in the AAC under the last year of the BCS. Technically, Temple would count for 2012-2013 and Memphis, UCF, Houston, and SMU for 2013.

The way Houston, TCU, SMU and Cincinnati worked their way back in has to be a little encouraging to Washington St. and Oregon St.

But you can go all the way back to the 60s and the only school you would add to that list would be Tulane, who was an SEC member from 1933-1965.

OSU and Wazzu will feel right at home with the MWC lineup. They are similar institutions to and have similar fan bases as most MWC schools. They will miss the media money, for sure. But, the MWC is where they have belonged all along.

You’d get **** on for this take in most places but it’s correct. Not like BYU and Utah deserve a seat at the P2 table, but when we got to the PAC it was clear that a couple of schools looked a lot more like our old MWC conference mates than the PAC schools they were playing with. I’m sure you had the same realization in the B12.

It's hard to dispute that WSU and OSU are, overall, less-dedicated to Athletics than the rest of the current Pac 12. They've both been last and next-to last in Pac 12 revenues every year but one in the past half decade, and in that one year, OSU was 3rd from last. So, yeah, they haven't been spending like the rest of the Pac. In fact, they were last and next-to-last in the entire P5 over that same time period, too. That's the big thing that TCU was determined to change after they got left out of the original Big 12, and they accomplished their goal. They started spending like a Big Brand, they started winning like a Big Brand, then soon afterwards they were invited to 2 different Power Conferences. WOSU will have that same opportunity over the next 5-10-15 years as many of us will long remember their days in the P5, but they need to start making those same sort of changes that TCU made if they want to make it back to the Club.

(12-14-2023 07:59 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(12-14-2023 01:51 PM)jrj84105 Wrote:  

(12-11-2023 01:20 PM)YNot Wrote:  

(12-11-2023 01:17 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(12-11-2023 12:29 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Using 1992, roughly the end of the realignment that was kicked off by Penn St’s 1989 Big 10 membership announcement, there’s been 60 programs who have been “in the club” status the entire time, whether that meant being in a Bowl Coalition/Bowl Alliance conference, a BCS conference, or the so-called P5 of the CFP era (contract bowl status). Here are the schools that have spent time in and out of that status:

Temple 1992-2004
UConn 2004-2013
USF 2005-2013
UCF 2023-
Cincinnati 2005-2013, 2023-
Louisville 2005-
TCU 1992-1995, 2012-
SMU 1992-1995, 2024-
Houston 1992-1995, 2023-
Rice 1992-1995
Utah 2011-
BYU 2023-
Washington St 1992-2023
Oregon St 1992-2023

*I’m not including schools who were in the AAC under the last year of the BCS. Technically, Temple would count for 2012-2013 and Memphis, UCF, Houston, and SMU for 2013.

The way Houston, TCU, SMU and Cincinnati worked their way back in has to be a little encouraging to Washington St. and Oregon St.

But you can go all the way back to the 60s and the only school you would add to that list would be Tulane, who was an SEC member from 1933-1965.

OSU and Wazzu will feel right at home with the MWC lineup. They are similar institutions to and have similar fan bases as most MWC schools. They will miss the media money, for sure. But, the MWC is where they have belonged all along.

You’d get **** on for this take in most places but it’s correct. Not like BYU and Utah deserve a seat at the P2 table, but when we got to the PAC it was clear that a couple of schools looked a lot more like our old MWC conference mates than the PAC schools they were playing with. I’m sure you had the same realization in the B12.

It's hard to dispute that WSU and OSU are, overall, less-dedicated to Athletics than the rest of the current Pac 12. They've both been last and next-to last in Pac 12 revenues every year but one in the past half decade, and in that one year, OSU was 3rd from last. So, yeah, they haven't been spending like the rest of the Pac. In fact, they were last and next-to-last in the entire P5 over that same time period, too. That's the big thing that TCU was determined to change after they got left out of the original Big 12, and they accomplished their goal. They started spending like a Big Brand, they started winning like a Big Brand, then soon afterwards they were invited to 2 different Power Conferences. WOSU will have that same opportunity over the next 5-10-15 years as many of us will long remember their days in the P5, but they need to start making those same sort of changes that TCU made if they want to make it back to the Club.

The problem with Oregon State and Washington State is geography isn't on their side like it was with TCU. There isn't currently a West Coast Power conference that they can slide into unless the MWC builds themselves into a Power conference. The Big 10 already has the Pacific Northwest covered, the SEC and ACC are about as far away from that area as you can get, the only one they'd have a prayer at getting into is the Big 12 and even then the closest schools to them would be Utah/BYU. Every other former Pac 12 school is in a more geographically friendly area. TCU found the perfect geographical conference with an opening. Even SMU found a non ideal geographically conference that was desperate for Dallas. Find me a conference desperate for Pullman and Corvallis!

(12-11-2023 02:27 PM)ArmoredUpKnight Wrote:  

(12-11-2023 02:08 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  

(12-11-2023 01:15 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(12-11-2023 12:29 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Using 1992, roughly the end of the realignment that was kicked off by Penn St’s 1989 Big 10 membership announcement, there’s been 60 programs who have been “in the club” status the entire time, whether that meant being in a Bowl Coalition/Bowl Alliance conference, a BCS conference, or the so-called P5 of the CFP era (contract bowl status). Here are the schools that have spent time in and out of that status:

Temple 1992-2004
UConn 2004-2013
USF 2005-2013
UCF 2023-
Cincinnati 2005-2013, 2023-
Louisville 2005-
TCU 1992-1995, 2012-
SMU 1992-1995, 2024-
Houston 1992-1995, 2023-
Rice 1992-1995
Utah 2011-
BYU 2023-
Washington St 1992-2023
Oregon St 1992-2023

*I’m not including schools who were in the AAC under the last year of the BCS. Technically, Temple would count for 2012-2013 and Memphis, UCF, Houston, and SMU for 2013.

If you're not counting the 2013 AAC, that would still leave 2012 Temple (the last season of Big East FB) as "in the club", and it would exclude the 2013 seasons of Cincinnati, Louisville, Rutgers, UConn, and USF. Can't have it both ways.

Also, if OSU and WSU are getting P-level CFP money for 2024 and 2025, one could argue they'd remain "in the club" for those two seasons.

It didn’t make sense to include replacements to a league that was losing its status. The instant the Louisville and Rutgers announcements were made, it was abundantly clear that they weren’t going to a BCS autobid league anymore. 2013 was their lame duck season when they had just 5 of the old schools and 5 of the new. They started that season knowing that.

Lame Duck?

The Big East/AAC Champion beat the Big 12 Champion in a BCS Bowl game that year!

It was under the AAC branding. The Big East Football Conference was gone. The Big East (C7) was off playing basketball. The programs with major bowls and Hall of Fame players in the past -- Syracuse, Pitt, West Virginia -- were gone. (Houston and SMU excepted because of their time in the wilderness). It was basically the first Access Bowl.

It would have been greatly complicated if UCF hadn't been the highest-ranked G5 champion.

I wouldn’t call Wash St and Ore St as less committed to athletics, they just have fewer resources.

Of the former “club” members, I think Rice is done. I don’t think they are ever coming back.

Temple would need the ACC to get raided pretty hard to slip back in. UConn and USF stand better chances to serve as ACC backfill. (Tulane and Memphis might be in that conversation too).

Ore St and Wash St would need the Big 12 to decide to take them in.

(12-15-2023 02:35 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I wouldn’t call Wash St and Ore St as less committed to athletics, they just have fewer resources.

Of the former “club” members, I think Rice is done. I don’t think they are ever coming back.

Temple would need the ACC to get raided pretty hard to slip back in. UConn and USF stand better chances to serve as ACC backfill. (Tulane and Memphis might be in that conversation too).

Ore St and Wash St would need the Big 12 to decide to take them in.

And how Oregon State and Washington State handle the finances of the PAC12 dissolution will determine if the only voting block in the B12 vote that would potentially support them will.

Using 1992 as the starting point for club membership the SWC was included until it folded, the original Big 12 schools (Texas, Texas A&M, Texas Tech, and Baylor) never left the club, TCU joined when they got in the Big 12 (technically when they were accepted into the Big East although they never were a member), Houston made it this past year, and SMU will make it back in once they make it into the ACC. But by 2023 standards it does seem remarkable to have a conference with all but one member (Arkansas) in the same state in the club considered a major conference and having a bid in a major New Year's Day bowl for years.

It makes me wonder why something similar never happened in California, the only state that has more people and I assume more colleges than Texas? UCLA, USC, California, and Stanford had been in the Pac 12 for decades but them sharing a conference with Washington and Oregon schools geographically is the equivalent of Florida sharing a conference with Penn State. The Big West Conference we know now was originally formed in 1968 as the Pacific Coast Athletic Association. The five founding members were UC Santa Barbara, Long Beach State, SAN DIEGO STATE, FRESNO STATE, and SAN JOSE STATE and the "PCAA"/Big West not only played football but FBS football until 2000! If Texas could share a conference with Rice (hey I didn't say it, JFK did!), why couldn't the UC schools, USC, and Stanford have shared a conference with San Diego State and Fresno State in the 70's and 80's instead of playing Wazzu and Oregon State? If Texas and Texas A&M had just joined the "Big 8" or "SEC" back in the 60's or earlier like the California P5's joined the Pac 8, schools like Rice, Baylor, SMU, and TCU would be nobodies today. How many private schools should even be in public conferences in the first place? Let them have their Ivy Leagues.