(12-21-2023 12:49 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(12-20-2023 09:10 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(12-20-2023 01:40 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(12-20-2023 11:21 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(12-20-2023 11:19 AM)esayem Wrote:  Oh, BS.

Their star quarterback is hurt. They looked sloppy on offense for two weeks in a row. Alabama handled the #1 team in the nation.

Travis doesn't get hurt and they cruise, they're easily #3.

I agree that if Travis doesn't get hurt FSU gets in. But I think him getting hurt created an opening for the CFP to snub the ACC in favor of the SEC that would never have happened the other way.

Put it this way - if the situation was reversed, if Alabama finished 13-0, but lost Milroe the last three games and looked fugly winning them like FSU did without their starting QB, would they have been left out in favor of a 12-1 ACC champ FSU?

Not IMO.

The ex-FSU president said the outcome shows FSU is in a "secondary-level conference". I think he is spot on.

Alabama has won more national championships than anyone, by far, this century. Not really a fair comparison. Alabama would have gotten in over anyone if they were in FSU’s situation. Would Vanderbilt? Would South Carolina? Aha argument failed

I don't think Vandy or SC would have gotten in over FSU, because FSU is a much bigger football brand.

In that case, the school-brand gap would outweigh the conference-brand gap.

In this case, IMO there were three factors in play, in no particular order:

1) Alabama has a bit more school-brand than FSU. Not all that much, FSU really is a top-shelf brand.

2) FSU had a slightly better resume than Alabama. "Undefeated P5 champ".

3) With those two things in balance, the conference-brand factor, SEC > ACC, carried the day.

IMO, this is a clear-cut case of the new "P2" regime, the ex-FSU president nailed it.

Just MO.

1) Alabama is the premier football program in the South. I'd say their brand is more than a "bit" ahead of FSU these days. 1995 is a different story.

2) FSU didn't have a neutral site win over #1 Georgia, ending the defending champ's impressive streak. I disagree and actually believe Bama had the best win of the top 4. Their loss was early and against a Texas team that won their conference.

3) People want to use this because it's topical, but I don't think it matters. Why are we excusing the Pac and Big XII conference? One won't exist next season and the other will be borderline irrelevant without Texas and Oklahoma. If it were really about conference brand, then Washington and Texas should be in the conversation with FSU, because their brands are DOA and lame duck.

This is much to do about nothing. More hype talk because FSU wants to make more money.

Regarding Washington and Texas vs FSU .... Washington I think had two things going for them that put them ahead of FSU. First, as a team, they are very strong on all the metrics. The Massey Composite has them #2, the old BCS formula has them #2. They are just very strong in the "computers", so combine that with unbeaten and they were in no matter what. Conference brand isn't everything of course - Cincy from the AAC got in two years ago.

Also, IMO both Washington and Texas likely had a conference brand-value advantage over FSU because both are heading to P2 leagues next year. Sure, the Big 12 will be much reduced next year and the PAC is dead next year, but Washington and Texas aren't dead next year, they are going to the B1G and SEC. So if anything, I think they had a conference brand-edge over FSU too. I think it quite likely they were viewed not as members of presumptively dead-duck conferences, but as being presumptive B1G and SEC teams.

(12-21-2023 10:54 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(12-21-2023 12:49 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(12-20-2023 09:10 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(12-20-2023 01:40 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(12-20-2023 11:21 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  I agree that if Travis doesn't get hurt FSU gets in. But I think him getting hurt created an opening for the CFP to snub the ACC in favor of the SEC that would never have happened the other way.

Put it this way - if the situation was reversed, if Alabama finished 13-0, but lost Milroe the last three games and looked fugly winning them like FSU did without their starting QB, would they have been left out in favor of a 12-1 ACC champ FSU?

Not IMO.

The ex-FSU president said the outcome shows FSU is in a "secondary-level conference". I think he is spot on.

Alabama has won more national championships than anyone, by far, this century. Not really a fair comparison. Alabama would have gotten in over anyone if they were in FSU’s situation. Would Vanderbilt? Would South Carolina? Aha argument failed

I don't think Vandy or SC would have gotten in over FSU, because FSU is a much bigger football brand.

In that case, the school-brand gap would outweigh the conference-brand gap.

In this case, IMO there were three factors in play, in no particular order:

1) Alabama has a bit more school-brand than FSU. Not all that much, FSU really is a top-shelf brand.

2) FSU had a slightly better resume than Alabama. "Undefeated P5 champ".

3) With those two things in balance, the conference-brand factor, SEC > ACC, carried the day.

IMO, this is a clear-cut case of the new "P2" regime, the ex-FSU president nailed it.

Just MO.

1) Alabama is the premier football program in the South. I'd say their brand is more than a "bit" ahead of FSU these days. 1995 is a different story.

2) FSU didn't have a neutral site win over #1 Georgia, ending the defending champ's impressive streak. I disagree and actually believe Bama had the best win of the top 4. Their loss was early and against a Texas team that won their conference.

3) People want to use this because it's topical, but I don't think it matters. Why are we excusing the Pac and Big XII conference? One won't exist next season and the other will be borderline irrelevant without Texas and Oklahoma. If it were really about conference brand, then Washington and Texas should be in the conversation with FSU, because their brands are DOA and lame duck.

This is much to do about nothing. More hype talk because FSU wants to make more money.

Regarding Washington and Texas vs FSU .... Washington I think had two things going for them that put them ahead of FSU. First, as a team, they are very strong on all the metrics. The Massey Composite has them #2, the old BCS formula has them #2. They are just very strong in the "computers", so combine that with unbeaten and they were in no matter what. Conference brand isn't everything of course - Cincy from the AAC got in two years ago.

Also, IMO both Washington and Texas likely had a conference brand-value advantage over FSU because both are heading to P2 leagues next year. Sure, the Big 12 will be much reduced next year and the PAC is dead next year, but Washington and Texas aren't dead next year, they are going to the B1G and SEC. So if anything, I think they had a conference brand-edge over FSU too. I think it quite likely they were viewed not as members of presumptively dead-duck conferences, but as being presumptive B1G and SEC teams.

I mean we can sit here and cherry pick analysis vs human biases all day. Your first paragraph highlights analysis, and I'm pretty sure many a computer had FSU over Texas. Your second paragraph is centered on human biases which is totally subjective.

The facts we know are the committee highlighted the injury. Everything beyond that is pure speculation of some sinister unspoken subplot. Like I said in another thread, I wish Louisville won the game; the Birds get the Orange Bowl and the Noles end up in the Peach.

(12-21-2023 07:27 AM)Outsider6 Wrote:  The new ESPN report of last night names the equity partner who will be partnering up with Florida St. The article is not just a recap on old news as it provides new information.

Yes, now we're getting new developments. Also the news about tomorrow's trustees meeting at Florida State.

Before people whine about 'whining': sunshine laws make these discussions automatically public.

Quote:Truth = SEC champ > ACC champ

I agree with that. In fact, I'll take it a step further.

Truth = SEC runner-up > ACC Champ

Which is why...

It was completely gutless for the committee to leave FSU out *but* rank them fifth ahead of Georgia. If we're simply going by the best four teams rather than "deserving resumes" then that is what it is, but be consistent.

Raise your hand if you believe that FSU's current team is better than Georgia's.

(12-21-2023 12:25 PM)Gitanole Wrote:  

(12-21-2023 07:27 AM)Outsider6 Wrote:  The new ESPN report of last night names the equity partner who will be partnering up with Florida St. The article is not just a recap on old news as it provides new information.

Yes, now we're getting new developments. Also the news about tomorrow's trustees meeting at Florida State.

Before people whine about 'whining': sunshine laws make these discussions automatically public.

LOL! There are some GOR truthers sweating some bbs right now.

(12-21-2023 12:46 PM)eku05 Wrote:  

Quote:Truth = SEC champ > ACC champ

I agree with that. In fact, I'll take it a step further.

Truth = SEC runner-up > ACC Champ

Which is why...

It was completely gutless for the committee to leave FSU out *but* rank them fifth ahead of Georgia. If we're simply going by the best four teams rather than "deserving resumes" then that is what it is, but be consistent.

Raise your hand if you believe that FSU's current team is better than Georgia's.

I'll take it a step even further.

Truth = SEC runner-up > Pac 12 and Big Ten Champs

Raise your hand if you believe that Michigan and Washington are better than Georgia's.

(12-21-2023 01:13 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(12-21-2023 12:25 PM)Gitanole Wrote:  

(12-21-2023 07:27 AM)Outsider6 Wrote:  The new ESPN report of last night names the equity partner who will be partnering up with Florida St. The article is not just a recap on old news as it provides new information.

Yes, now we're getting new developments. Also the news about tomorrow's trustees meeting at Florida State.

Before people whine about 'whining': sunshine laws make these discussions automatically public.

LOL! There are some GOR truthers sweating some bbs right now.

If the Noles want to pay their way out and join the Big Ten, they know where to leave the check. I imagine some in SEC country will be sweating that Big Ten flag in the capital of FLA

LOL!

(12-21-2023 03:50 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(12-21-2023 01:13 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(12-21-2023 12:25 PM)Gitanole Wrote:  

(12-21-2023 07:27 AM)Outsider6 Wrote:  The new ESPN report of last night names the equity partner who will be partnering up with Florida St. The article is not just a recap on old news as it provides new information.

Yes, now we're getting new developments. Also the news about tomorrow's trustees meeting at Florida State.

Before people whine about 'whining': sunshine laws make these discussions automatically public.

LOL! There are some GOR truthers sweating some bbs right now.

If the Noles want to pay their way out and join the Big Ten, they know where to leave the check. I imagine some in SEC country will be sweating that Big Ten flag in the capital of FLA

LOL!

Actually no. The flag in Tallahassee beside the state one isn't Flagship. And adding Miami would NET us more market share within the state, though FSU has the second most viewers. And just how many Big 10 alums are in the panhandle?

(12-21-2023 04:58 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(12-21-2023 03:50 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(12-21-2023 01:13 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(12-21-2023 12:25 PM)Gitanole Wrote:  

(12-21-2023 07:27 AM)Outsider6 Wrote:  The new ESPN report of last night names the equity partner who will be partnering up with Florida St. The article is not just a recap on old news as it provides new information.

Yes, now we're getting new developments. Also the news about tomorrow's trustees meeting at Florida State.

Before people whine about 'whining': sunshine laws make these discussions automatically public.

LOL! There are some GOR truthers sweating some bbs right now.

If the Noles want to pay their way out and join the Big Ten, they know where to leave the check. I imagine some in SEC country will be sweating that Big Ten flag in the capital of FLA

LOL!

Actually no. The flag in Tallahassee beside the state one isn't Flagship. And adding Miami would NET us more market share within the state, though FSU has the second most viewers. And just how many Big 10 alums are in the panhandle?

The B1G would probably go after USF (huge enrollment, rapidly growing alumni base, AAU).

It's also in the midst of all of the B1G alumni.
The B1G will then take over central Florida, while the ACC holds the South, and the SEC can claim all of the ground between Gainsville and Auburn.

(12-21-2023 05:01 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(12-21-2023 04:58 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(12-21-2023 03:50 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(12-21-2023 01:13 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(12-21-2023 12:25 PM)Gitanole Wrote:  Yes, now we're getting new developments. Also the news about tomorrow's trustees meeting at Florida State.

Before people whine about 'whining': sunshine laws make these discussions automatically public.

LOL! There are some GOR truthers sweating some bbs right now.

If the Noles want to pay their way out and join the Big Ten, they know where to leave the check. I imagine some in SEC country will be sweating that Big Ten flag in the capital of FLA

LOL!

Actually no. The flag in Tallahassee beside the state one isn't Flagship. And adding Miami would NET us more market share within the state, though FSU has the second most viewers. And just how many Big 10 alums are in the panhandle?

The B1G would probably go after USF (huge enrollment, rapidly growing alumni base, AAU)

It's a good play for either the SEC or Big 10, but it will take a pair on the Commissioner to sell it. The current data is small crowds and low viewership. The reality is if you slap a brand patch on their sleeves and grow their venue by 30,000 which the state and alumni base would support if interesting schools were coming into to play there, they could make the leap fully within 10 years, one contract. But commissioners are not known for having that much audacity and presidents are not known to take risks, so it is a low probability, but a much nicer location than Tallhassee and positioned very well for a Gulf coast strategy for the SEC.

If the Big 10 is truly trying to make a play here, it’s Florida St and Miami they are going for. The duo together gives them a bigger share of FL than UF, plus it brings a nice rivalry and regular FL recruiting for the rest of the league. It’s also another step towards landing Notre Dame.

(12-21-2023 01:13 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(12-21-2023 12:25 PM)Gitanole Wrote:  

(12-21-2023 07:27 AM)Outsider6 Wrote:  The new ESPN report of last night names the equity partner who will be partnering up with Florida St. The article is not just a recap on old news as it provides new information.

Yes, now we're getting new developments. Also the news about tomorrow's trustees meeting at Florida State.

Before people whine about 'whining': sunshine laws make these discussions automatically public.

LOL! There are some GOR truthers sweating some bbs right now.

Naah. Just proves that FSU'S leaders are as dumb as the Utah University president.

My prediction: FSU loses in court.

But they have to, they can't face their fans / boosters if they don't at least try

My prediction: the parties settle out of court and FSU pays less than Ohtani's deferred salary.

(12-21-2023 05:09 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(12-21-2023 01:13 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(12-21-2023 12:25 PM)Gitanole Wrote:  

(12-21-2023 07:27 AM)Outsider6 Wrote:  The new ESPN report of last night names the equity partner who will be partnering up with Florida St. The article is not just a recap on old news as it provides new information.

Yes, now we're getting new developments. Also the news about tomorrow's trustees meeting at Florida State.

Before people whine about 'whining': sunshine laws make these discussions automatically public.

LOL! There are some GOR truthers sweating some bbs right now.

Naah. Just proves that FSU'S leaders are as dumb as the Utah University president.

My prediction: FSU loses in court.

But they have to, they can't face their fans / boosters if they don't at least try

Expanded playoffs, damages coming down the pike, pay for play looming, the possible implosion of the NCAA under those damages, and the general direction which has seen the Big 12 decapitated and the PAC 12 obliterated says something is likely. People want it to stop, because the momentum says its going over the cliff and that's a very unstable event for icons which represent such security to so many to go through. I recommend a parachute and not a long rope. You can get a soft landing with the former, but a quick and fatal jerk with the other, if it doesn't just pull through your hands and lead to freefall. I just don't see the momentum stopping. Those saying it will stop now are like the people on the stern of the Titanic screaming so far so good!

(12-21-2023 01:13 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(12-21-2023 12:25 PM)Gitanole Wrote:  

(12-21-2023 07:27 AM)Outsider6 Wrote:  The new ESPN report of last night names the equity partner who will be partnering up with Florida St. The article is not just a recap on old news as it provides new information.

Yes, now we're getting new developments. Also the news about tomorrow's trustees meeting at Florida State.

Before people whine about 'whining': sunshine laws make these discussions automatically public.

LOL! There are some GOR truthers sweating some bbs right now.

The GoR spectrum: a perspective from the other end. Wake Forest knows size of the student body and alumni numbers, football stadium size, and locale, market reach, matter predominantly in clinging to the GoR. For them, and some others, a vibrant ACC must be sustained; any other path for them is less.
These are the people that must be convinced to negotiate.

https://www.theassemblync.com/culture/sp...tball-acc/

(12-21-2023 01:13 PM)JRsec Wrote:  LOL! There are some GOR truthers sweating some bbs right now.

A lot of important people seem to be discussing something they told us there's no reason to discuss.

(12-22-2023 01:53 AM)OdinFrigg Wrote:  

(12-21-2023 01:13 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(12-21-2023 12:25 PM)Gitanole Wrote:  

(12-21-2023 07:27 AM)Outsider6 Wrote:  The new ESPN report of last night names the equity partner who will be partnering up with Florida St. The article is not just a recap on old news as it provides new information.

Yes, now we're getting new developments. Also the news about tomorrow's trustees meeting at Florida State.

Before people whine about 'whining': sunshine laws make these discussions automatically public.

LOL! There are some GOR truthers sweating some bbs right now.

The GoR spectrum: a perspective from the other end. Wake Forest knows size of the student body and alumni numbers, football stadium size, and locale, market reach, matter predominantly in clinging to the GoR. For them, and some others, a vibrant ACC must be sustained; any other path for them is less.
These are the people that must be convinced to negotiate.

https://www.theassemblync.com/culture/sp...tball-acc/

You only have to convince 3 quarters of the members. That many can move.

(12-21-2023 05:08 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  If the Big 10 is truly trying to make a play here, it’s Florida St and Miami they are going for. The duo together gives them a bigger share of FL than UF, plus it brings a nice rivalry and regular FL recruiting for the rest of the league. It’s also another step towards landing Notre Dame.

How many steps have the Big Ten taken in the last 30 years to "land" ND ?

Why so much effort to trap a school that doesn't want to join ?

(12-22-2023 08:16 AM)TerryD Wrote:  

(12-21-2023 05:08 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  If the Big 10 is truly trying to make a play here, it’s Florida St and Miami they are going for. The duo together gives them a bigger share of FL than UF, plus it brings a nice rivalry and regular FL recruiting for the rest of the league. It’s also another step towards landing Notre Dame.

How many steps have the Big Ten taken in the last 30 years to "land" ND ?

Why so much effort to trap a school that doesn't want to join ?

Cause y'all the biggest fish in the pond. Duh.

Why would they NOT try to shoot their shot?
(Provided the investment if effort is judged reasonable given high chance of failure)

(12-22-2023 08:50 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(12-22-2023 08:16 AM)TerryD Wrote:  

(12-21-2023 05:08 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  If the Big 10 is truly trying to make a play here, it’s Florida St and Miami they are going for. The duo together gives them a bigger share of FL than UF, plus it brings a nice rivalry and regular FL recruiting for the rest of the league. It’s also another step towards landing Notre Dame.

How many steps have the Big Ten taken in the last 30 years to "land" ND ?

Why so much effort to trap a school that doesn't want to join ?

Cause y'all the biggest fish in the pond. Duh.

Why would they NOT try to shoot their shot?
(Provided the investment if effort is judged reasonable given high chance of failure)

Shot?

More like a dozen shots to date. All misses.

So, you favor a Coalition Of the Unwilling??

Seems a bit like stalking.