(12-31-2023 12:38 AM)Todor Wrote:  

(12-31-2023 12:14 AM)PojoaquePosse Wrote:  

(12-31-2023 12:10 AM)Todor Wrote:  

(12-30-2023 11:21 PM)TOPSTRAIGHT Wrote:  NMSU wins! 66-61 over Cal Baptist.

IMO--it is too soon to gauge Any of the first year coaches.

Perhaps. But usually, how it begins is how it ends. With the many, many years of experience he brought in, including a transfer starter and coaches that came with him, there is no reason to start out 1-9 versus D1 schools and to have a 320 NET ranking recently.

Many schools have new coaches, and many coaches have only 1 starter they have coached before. With the transfer portal and the huge number of players available, playing the long game doesn’t cut it anymore.

Anyone who couldn’t win the Southland in 13 tries, probably can’t win any higher conference. Time will likely show that we got a dud here. Maybe he was “good enough” considering the circumstances, but my concern is long we stick with a dud.

I may be an unrealistic and demanding fan, but I’m not content going from making the tournament 8 of 10 years to this mess. I’ll give him some credit once he makes the tournament.

Horrible take. We haven’t even begun conference play yet. I don’t agree with anything.

You would. You argue with almost everything.

You disagree with Hooten never making the tournament? He hasn’t.
You disagree we started 1-9 versus D1? The schedule disagrees with you.
The NET wasn’t over 320? Argue all you want, but it’s still a fact.
You disagree someone who couldn’t win the Southland in 13 tries can win at a higher level? Name one who has.

More likely, the AD felt pressure to hire a “safe” choice who was unlikely bring more disrepute and Hootens couple of fluke P5 wins was enough to sway him at that moment in time.

But that time has passed. Aren’t you the one talking about playing golf with Mario? Well, he blew it this time. And last time. Pass it on when you see him on the links next time. Sorry, I’m just a fan, not an insider who takes it personally when someone criticizes your buddies.

MM is not a personal friend and I certainly don’t play golf with him. I’m gonna let the games play out for a couple of years before I make predictions. Hooten could also be 10-4 right now.

(12-31-2023 09:25 AM)PojoaquePosse Wrote:  

(12-31-2023 12:38 AM)Todor Wrote:  

(12-31-2023 12:14 AM)PojoaquePosse Wrote:  

(12-31-2023 12:10 AM)Todor Wrote:  

(12-30-2023 11:21 PM)TOPSTRAIGHT Wrote:  NMSU wins! 66-61 over Cal Baptist.

IMO--it is too soon to gauge Any of the first year coaches.

Perhaps. But usually, how it begins is how it ends. With the many, many years of experience he brought in, including a transfer starter and coaches that came with him, there is no reason to start out 1-9 versus D1 schools and to have a 320 NET ranking recently.

Many schools have new coaches, and many coaches have only 1 starter they have coached before. With the transfer portal and the huge number of players available, playing the long game doesn’t cut it anymore.

Anyone who couldn’t win the Southland in 13 tries, probably can’t win any higher conference. Time will likely show that we got a dud here. Maybe he was “good enough” considering the circumstances, but my concern is long we stick with a dud.

I may be an unrealistic and demanding fan, but I’m not content going from making the tournament 8 of 10 years to this mess. I’ll give him some credit once he makes the tournament.

Horrible take. We haven’t even begun conference play yet. I don’t agree with anything.

You would. You argue with almost everything.

You disagree with Hooten never making the tournament? He hasn’t.
You disagree we started 1-9 versus D1? The schedule disagrees with you.
The NET wasn’t over 320? Argue all you want, but it’s still a fact.
You disagree someone who couldn’t win the Southland in 13 tries can win at a higher level? Name one who has.

More likely, the AD felt pressure to hire a “safe” choice who was unlikely bring more disrepute and Hootens couple of fluke P5 wins was enough to sway him at that moment in time.

But that time has passed. Aren’t you the one talking about playing golf with Mario? Well, he blew it this time. And last time. Pass it on when you see him on the links next time. Sorry, I’m just a fan, not an insider who takes it personally when someone criticizes your buddies.

MM is not a personal friend and I certainly don’t play golf with him. I’m gonna let the games play out for a couple of years before I make predictions. Hooten could also be 10-4 right now.

Gotta agree with Mario’s golfing buddy, we could EASILY be 10-4 right now. It’s been an uphill battle but there has been progress and idk what else we can expect right now. Especially with all the early season injuries we had and new faces. Hell we just had a guy added to the roster last night! Two of our best players fouled out! One of which was our leading scorer and we found a way to win.

The record isn’t what I want it to be but if we just get our culture reestablished and give Hooten what he needs NMSU basketball will be just fine and back in the mix in no time. We do need to have some modicum of patience though.

(12-31-2023 06:51 AM)NMSUPistolPete Wrote:  For me, everything comes down to recruiting.

CUSA's "first year" head coaches...

Steve Lutz (11-3) - Lutz appears to be continuing what he showed at TAMCC. In two years there, he produced two NCAA appearances. His Hilltopper team looks to be on the same trajectory. With the fewest impediments within the program he inherited, he has shown his pedigree as an up-and-coming head coach. I expect WKU to be one of the top two or three teams to win CUSA this season.

Jason Hooten (6-9) - Hooten has shown to be a very good X's and O's coach. But until he recruits a better crop of players, we won't know what he is capable of accomplishing at NMSU. At the moment I will attribute our level of roster talent to the effects of our recent bad national publicity. Hooten's first year recruiting was likely affected. But given the basketball expectation at NMSU, he only has a finite amount of time with the Aggie fan base to show his worth as a "winning" head coach. The fans will get restless if marked improvement isn't seen over the next year or two. Only time will tell if Hooten can produce more at NMSU than what he accomplished at Sam Houston. I will give him the benefit of the doubt for now.

Chris Mudge (6-8) - Mudge has had a solid first season. But time will tell if he can live up to his predecessor given the financial limitations at Sam Houston and the continued step-up in conference strength (Southland to WAC to CUSA) resources wise. Although Mudge is continuing the program Hooten put in place, Bearkat fans could realize a coach like Jason Hooten (with a 0.607 winning percentage and multiple 20-plus winning seasons) might be the best coach they could ever hope to have there.

I will include my assessment of Kennesaw State since Pettway is building his program for CUSA.

Antoine Pettway (9-5) - is doing a good job taking over the program Abdur-Rahim put in place. Pettway's Owl team continues to be in the hunt for an A-Sun championship. And Pettway's recruiting for 2024 has looked very solid with the high school players he has managed to sign early. However, in this era of the transfer portal, programs don't tend to rebuild with a lot of freshmen, they reload with D1 transfers. Unless you are recruiting blue chip HS players (i.e. Duke and Kentucky), most good D1 coaches want to get old and stay old with the experience on their roster.

Hooten’s predecessor at SHSU, Bobby Marlin, had six 20 win seasons (.663 win%) and made two NCAA tournaments in less time at the school than Hooten. Nearly always finishing within the top 3 of the conference and got in-state power schools (A&M, Tech, etc.) to visit Huntsville during his tenure. The program went backwards when he left.

Nothing that happens with Mudge will convince me we can’t do better than Hooten.

(12-31-2023 12:19 PM)EatEmUp11 Wrote:  

(12-31-2023 06:51 AM)NMSUPistolPete Wrote:  For me, everything comes down to recruiting.

CUSA's "first year" head coaches...

Steve Lutz (11-3) - Lutz appears to be continuing what he showed at TAMCC. In two years there, he produced two NCAA appearances. His Hilltopper team looks to be on the same trajectory. With the fewest impediments within the program he inherited, he has shown his pedigree as an up-and-coming head coach. I expect WKU to be one of the top two or three teams to win CUSA this season.

Jason Hooten (6-9) - Hooten has shown to be a very good X's and O's coach. But until he recruits a better crop of players, we won't know what he is capable of accomplishing at NMSU. At the moment I will attribute our level of roster talent to the effects of our recent bad national publicity. Hooten's first year recruiting was likely affected. But given the basketball expectation at NMSU, he only has a finite amount of time with the Aggie fan base to show his worth as a "winning" head coach. The fans will get restless if marked improvement isn't seen over the next year or two. Only time will tell if Hooten can produce more at NMSU than what he accomplished at Sam Houston. I will give him the benefit of the doubt for now.

Chris Mudge (6-8) - Mudge has had a solid first season. But time will tell if he can live up to his predecessor given the financial limitations at Sam Houston and the continued step-up in conference strength (Southland to WAC to CUSA) resources wise. Although Mudge is continuing the program Hooten put in place, Bearkat fans could realize a coach like Jason Hooten (with a 0.607 winning percentage and multiple 20-plus winning seasons) might be the best coach they could ever hope to have there.

I will include my assessment of Kennesaw State since Pettway is building his program for CUSA.

Antoine Pettway (9-5) - is doing a good job taking over the program Abdur-Rahim put in place. Pettway's Owl team continues to be in the hunt for an A-Sun championship. And Pettway's recruiting for 2024 has looked very solid with the high school players he has managed to sign early. However, in this era of the transfer portal, programs don't tend to rebuild with a lot of freshmen, they reload with D1 transfers. Unless you are recruiting blue chip HS players (i.e. Duke and Kentucky), most good D1 coaches want to get old and stay old with the experience on their roster.

Hooten’s predecessor at SHSU, Bobby Marlin, had six 20 win seasons (.663 win%) and made two NCAA tournaments in less time at the school than Hooten. Nearly always finishing within the top 3 of the conference and got in-state power schools (A&M, Tech, etc.) to visit Huntsville during his tenure. The program went backwards when he left.

Nothing that happens with Mudge will convince me we can’t do better than Hooten.

Marlin won in the Southland with basketball budgets of similar size. Hooten had already established a winning program at Sam Houston which allowed him to stay competitive in the WAC. But now, Sam Houston's basketball budget is now where near the size of many of the CUSA schools currently. Mudge is fight an uphill battle just to stay competitive. Unless Mudge can far exceed Hooten in recruiting, Bearkat fans will yearn for the days when Hooten had them competitive for a conference championship and winning 20-plus games a season.

For example...

2023 basketball budgets
Liberty.................. 3,528,543
Middle Tennessee... 3,151,735
New Mexico State... 3,286,270
UTEP..................... 4,722,860
Western Kentucky... 3,147,254
Sam Houston......... 1,209,741

(12-30-2023 07:36 PM)TOPSTRAIGHT Wrote:  I would like to see UTEP really grind Seattle into the dirt tonight.

Three chances for wins left tonight.

Don't expect too many wins from us this year, we're really bad. We have no shooters and we lack a big man under the basket. Going for layup after layup wont' do the trick. Sorry guys, the old grey mare what it used to be.

(12-31-2023 12:37 PM)NMSUPistolPete Wrote:  

(12-31-2023 12:19 PM)EatEmUp11 Wrote:  

(12-31-2023 06:51 AM)NMSUPistolPete Wrote:  For me, everything comes down to recruiting.

CUSA's "first year" head coaches...

Steve Lutz (11-3) - Lutz appears to be continuing what he showed at TAMCC. In two years there, he produced two NCAA appearances. His Hilltopper team looks to be on the same trajectory. With the fewest impediments within the program he inherited, he has shown his pedigree as an up-and-coming head coach. I expect WKU to be one of the top two or three teams to win CUSA this season.

Jason Hooten (6-9) - Hooten has shown to be a very good X's and O's coach. But until he recruits a better crop of players, we won't know what he is capable of accomplishing at NMSU. At the moment I will attribute our level of roster talent to the effects of our recent bad national publicity. Hooten's first year recruiting was likely affected. But given the basketball expectation at NMSU, he only has a finite amount of time with the Aggie fan base to show his worth as a "winning" head coach. The fans will get restless if marked improvement isn't seen over the next year or two. Only time will tell if Hooten can produce more at NMSU than what he accomplished at Sam Houston. I will give him the benefit of the doubt for now.

Chris Mudge (6-8) - Mudge has had a solid first season. But time will tell if he can live up to his predecessor given the financial limitations at Sam Houston and the continued step-up in conference strength (Southland to WAC to CUSA) resources wise. Although Mudge is continuing the program Hooten put in place, Bearkat fans could realize a coach like Jason Hooten (with a 0.607 winning percentage and multiple 20-plus winning seasons) might be the best coach they could ever hope to have there.

I will include my assessment of Kennesaw State since Pettway is building his program for CUSA.

Antoine Pettway (9-5) - is doing a good job taking over the program Abdur-Rahim put in place. Pettway's Owl team continues to be in the hunt for an A-Sun championship. And Pettway's recruiting for 2024 has looked very solid with the high school players he has managed to sign early. However, in this era of the transfer portal, programs don't tend to rebuild with a lot of freshmen, they reload with D1 transfers. Unless you are recruiting blue chip HS players (i.e. Duke and Kentucky), most good D1 coaches want to get old and stay old with the experience on their roster.

Hooten’s predecessor at SHSU, Bobby Marlin, had six 20 win seasons (.663 win%) and made two NCAA tournaments in less time at the school than Hooten. Nearly always finishing within the top 3 of the conference and got in-state power schools (A&M, Tech, etc.) to visit Huntsville during his tenure. The program went backwards when he left.

Nothing that happens with Mudge will convince me we can’t do better than Hooten.

Marlin won in the Southland with basketball budgets of similar size. Hooten had already established a winning program at Sam Houston which allowed him to stay competitive in the WAC. But now, Sam Houston's basketball budget is now where near the size of many of the CUSA schools currently. Mudge is fight an uphill battle just to stay competitive. Unless Mudge can far exceed Hooten in recruiting, Bearkat fans will yearn for the days when Hooten had them competitive for a conference championship and winning 20-plus games a season.

For example...

2023 basketball budgets
Liberty.................. 3,528,543
Middle Tennessee... 3,151,735
New Mexico State... 3,286,270
UTEP..................... 4,722,860
Western Kentucky... 3,147,254
Sam Houston......... 1,209,741

And Hooten couldn’t in the 11 years he spent in the Southland lol. What’s the argument here? That Hooten was better because of a couple of fourth place finishes in the WAC? He spent 84% of his tenure in the Southland. Be serious man.

Of course it will be an uphill battle. I think most at Sam understand the reality of how the university runs the basketball programs. I do think our fanbase is pretty objective about our basketball (versus not so much in football) prospects. Personally, I won’t compare Mudge’s record with that of his predecessors because of the significant competitive leap we took. He actually has to do more with less here and pretending like that was Hooten’s life at Sam is ridiculous. Our budget was high relative to peers for most of his tenure.

We’ve yearned for a return to “the good ol’ days” for a decade. Just sayin’.

(12-31-2023 01:34 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  

(12-30-2023 07:36 PM)TOPSTRAIGHT Wrote:  I would like to see UTEP really grind Seattle into the dirt tonight.

Three chances for wins left tonight.

Don't expect too many wins from us this year, we're really bad. We have no shooters and we lack a big man under the basket. Going for layup after layup wont' do the trick. Sorry guys, the old grey mare what it used to be.

Golding has established his defensive presence at UTEP but for some reason, he can't get his offense on track. I really thought this would be UTEP's breakout year. UTEP has good talent but their roles on the team seem murky. There are too many guys with the same skillset. Some time I feel Zid Powell tries to do too much, and the offense becomes one-dimensional. Golding definitely needs better perimeter shooters moving forward.

(12-31-2023 01:46 PM)EatEmUp11 Wrote:  

(12-31-2023 12:37 PM)NMSUPistolPete Wrote:  

(12-31-2023 12:19 PM)EatEmUp11 Wrote:  

(12-31-2023 06:51 AM)NMSUPistolPete Wrote:  For me, everything comes down to recruiting.

CUSA's "first year" head coaches...

Steve Lutz (11-3) - Lutz appears to be continuing what he showed at TAMCC. In two years there, he produced two NCAA appearances. His Hilltopper team looks to be on the same trajectory. With the fewest impediments within the program he inherited, he has shown his pedigree as an up-and-coming head coach. I expect WKU to be one of the top two or three teams to win CUSA this season.

Jason Hooten (6-9) - Hooten has shown to be a very good X's and O's coach. But until he recruits a better crop of players, we won't know what he is capable of accomplishing at NMSU. At the moment I will attribute our level of roster talent to the effects of our recent bad national publicity. Hooten's first year recruiting was likely affected. But given the basketball expectation at NMSU, he only has a finite amount of time with the Aggie fan base to show his worth as a "winning" head coach. The fans will get restless if marked improvement isn't seen over the next year or two. Only time will tell if Hooten can produce more at NMSU than what he accomplished at Sam Houston. I will give him the benefit of the doubt for now.

Chris Mudge (6-8) - Mudge has had a solid first season. But time will tell if he can live up to his predecessor given the financial limitations at Sam Houston and the continued step-up in conference strength (Southland to WAC to CUSA) resources wise. Although Mudge is continuing the program Hooten put in place, Bearkat fans could realize a coach like Jason Hooten (with a 0.607 winning percentage and multiple 20-plus winning seasons) might be the best coach they could ever hope to have there.

I will include my assessment of Kennesaw State since Pettway is building his program for CUSA.

Antoine Pettway (9-5) - is doing a good job taking over the program Abdur-Rahim put in place. Pettway's Owl team continues to be in the hunt for an A-Sun championship. And Pettway's recruiting for 2024 has looked very solid with the high school players he has managed to sign early. However, in this era of the transfer portal, programs don't tend to rebuild with a lot of freshmen, they reload with D1 transfers. Unless you are recruiting blue chip HS players (i.e. Duke and Kentucky), most good D1 coaches want to get old and stay old with the experience on their roster.

Hooten’s predecessor at SHSU, Bobby Marlin, had six 20 win seasons (.663 win%) and made two NCAA tournaments in less time at the school than Hooten. Nearly always finishing within the top 3 of the conference and got in-state power schools (A&M, Tech, etc.) to visit Huntsville during his tenure. The program went backwards when he left.

Nothing that happens with Mudge will convince me we can’t do better than Hooten.

Marlin won in the Southland with basketball budgets of similar size. Hooten had already established a winning program at Sam Houston which allowed him to stay competitive in the WAC. But now, Sam Houston's basketball budget is now where near the size of many of the CUSA schools currently. Mudge is fight an uphill battle just to stay competitive. Unless Mudge can far exceed Hooten in recruiting, Bearkat fans will yearn for the days when Hooten had them competitive for a conference championship and winning 20-plus games a season.

For example...

2023 basketball budgets
Liberty.................. 3,528,543
Middle Tennessee... 3,151,735
New Mexico State... 3,286,270
UTEP..................... 4,722,860
Western Kentucky... 3,147,254
Sam Houston......... 1,209,741

And Hooten couldn’t in the 11 years he spent in the Southland lol. What’s the argument here? That Hooten was better because of a couple of fourth place finishes in the WAC? He spent 84% of his tenure in the Southland. Be serious man.

Of course it will be an uphill battle. I think most at Sam understand the reality of how the university runs the basketball programs. I do think our fanbase is pretty objective about our basketball (versus not so much in football) prospects. Personally, I won’t compare Mudge’s record with that of his predecessors because of the significant competitive leap we took. He actually has to do more with less here and pretending like that was Hooten’s life at Sam is ridiculous. Our budget was high relative to peers for most of his tenure.

We’ve yearned for a return to “the good ol’ days” for a decade. Just sayin’.

I am not debating on Hooten's merits for our purposes (NMSU) but more so for yours (Sam Houston). The jury is still out on whether Moccia made the right basketball hire or blundered again. But while at SHSU Hooten did a good job. He grew as a coach with the program. Mind you this is not a Bearkat program that has seen a great deal of basketball success in the past. Only two NCAA appearances in over 35 years. Granted, Marlin guided to those two appearances but Hooten's only detractor is that he followed the guy who gave Sam Houston rare air.

As for me, I was not a big fan of Hooten's hiring at NMSU on its onset. I was labelled a hater. I wanted NMSU to hire Danny Sprinkle from Montana State, who took the Bobcats to two NCAA tournaments in the last three years. And happens to have Utah State at 12-1 in the MWC currently.

But now that Hooten is our coach, I need to give him time to prove his worth. I also need to take into consideration the condition of our program when he took the helm. I think most Aggie fans will give him a short grace period.

For the record, I don't subscribe to the thinking that now that Hooten has more resources at NMSU he will be more successful here (tournament wise) than at Sam Houston. I feel winning is relative to your situation. As you pointed out while at Sam Houston, Hooten had a competitive budget (compared to his Southland peers) to win a conference tournament championship. Now he is at NMSU but like in the Southland, his budget is only comparable to his CUSA peers. Hooten gained no true competitive advantage as a head coach jumping to NMSU other than NMSU has a greater winning tradition than Sam Houston, which Hooten played a part of prior. Hooten should be in his prime as a head coach now. It's now or never to get it done... and hopefully he will take an Aggie team to the NCAA tournament in the near future. If Hooten can take NMSU to the NCAA Tournament twice within his first five years, I will call his hiring a success... comparable to his Aggie predecessors.