Both teams would add new marketz to the league (Norfolk/Hampton Roads) & (Greenville, SC). Furman has a very competitive men's basketball team. Don't know about Bill & Mary, but the Tribe does have stellar academics!!

They’ve got the 3 they want in VA. The SC school they want is College of Charleston.

3 words: too much deadweight.

The A-10 already has enough schools that don't carry their weight (although La Salle has been to a Sweet 16 in the last decade and Fordham and Duquesne have improved in recent years) and you're talking about adding schools that would further water down the league (and revenue) and not add to the conference's national credibility in basketball, by far the league's flagship sport?

W&M has never even been to the Tournament. They would be a far cry from past adds like Butler, VCU, Loyola, George Mason and Charlotte who almost or did compete for national titles in the past, or even Richmond which routinely won NCAA Tournament games before being added to the A-10.They have to build themselves up, like Loyola did for few years (granted, I think the A-10 will regret adding Loyola. The league pulled the trigger too soon with them) before they get even remote consideration.

Might I also add that Davidson was another who made some noise in March that the league added. Although, just like LUC, I criticize that add.

Even more teams? The league is finished as a contender if they only get 1 bid again.

Yes weigh it down.and have the best teams go MAC.

William & Mary is a public school that people seem to think is a private school. Im not sure why. Maybe its the name. Also I never considered Willamsburg to be the "Norfolk/Hampton Roads market" and always thought it was its own thing. Arent they like a hour's drive apart ? Thats close but not really the same thing.

(12-27-2023 12:05 AM)C2__ Wrote:  Might I also add that Davidson was another who made some noise in March that the league added. Although, just like LUC, I criticize that add.

But Davidson has found its way to the top of the conference since joining it, even winning the conference and going to the dance its first season in the A10. Since joining the conference, and they've got three tournament appearances and three NIT bids. Six postseasons in such a relatively short span is admirable.

Where I am skeptical about Davidson is more about the politics within a conference. Like, does having Davidson close the door on the UNCG's or UNCW's ever getting a sniff? UNCG especially.

I don't disagree, though, about LUC. Toss 'em into the pile with George Mason. But, better LUC than Detroit Mercy if the A10 wanted to retain a midwestern cluster.

(12-27-2023 12:21 AM)Scoochpooch1 Wrote:  Even more teams? The league is finished as a contender if they only get 1 bid again.

I think its safe to say nobody is taking UMass a football only member so UMass football fans need to convince their basketball fans that the A10 is what is now and is never going to be what it used to be and they need to be in the MAC or CUSA for all sports for the sake of football. Im sure its a tough sell for the basketball people to leave the A10.

The A-10's problem is that they have (no heavyweights but) NINE programs that are all among the top 125 programs in the country.


The analogy I like to give for basketball conferences is: Imagine big fishing nets hanging near the surface of the water. Each net is a conference, and the members of the conference are people trapped in the net. Your place in the conference standings is where you are in the net (last place is at the bottom with a dozen people on top of them). The conference's OOC win percentage determines how much of your net is underwater. With the waterline being "Not making the NCAA Tourney."

If you're Gonzaga, you're standing on top of seven guys, who are gurgling and drowning, with Saint Mary's tugging at your belt.

The Big 12 has the most of their net above water, and a few guys at the bottom are being held underwater by the feet of 8 people.

The A-10 is nine teams with water between their chin and eyebrows, standing on six others.

(12-27-2023 12:05 AM)C2__ Wrote:  Might I also add that Davidson was another who made some noise in March that the league added. Although, just like LUC, I criticize that add.

Davidson was a great add. Davidson and St. Bonaventure are schools who's upside isn't like "Going 27-6 and getting a 5 seed and making the Sweet 16". But they're GREAT for the conference because Davidson and Bona are pretty much ALWAYS winning between 17 and 22 games, like clockwork.

The A-10 has teams that will go 27-6 some years -- like Saint Louis, Rhode Island, Saint Joseph's or George Washington -- but that happens twice a decade and 4x a decade those teams are 12-19, and 4x a decade they're between 17-22 wins.

The "Feast or Famine" teams crush you. The "17-22 every single year" teams are how you build a conference.

I think W&M is a great institutional fit, but their basketball history is terrible.

Furman is probably not going to get the support that CofC will

People talk about Alabama, but at least we don’t have a college named for a couple of cousins who married each other.

If W&M were consistently better at basketball I think we'd be a pretty easy add.

When we've been better our fan support is good, and even in these down years we'd be middle of the pack in the A-10 attendance wise. We're a good institutional fit, and I think university presidents would generally like the idea of being in a conference with us. We're also in the process of improving all our facilities, and should (eventually) have one of the nicer mid major basketball arenas out there.

Also, WM is an hour from Richmond and Norfolk, and like 20 minutes from the A10 headquarters (which are in Newport News, for whatever reason). Williamsburg itself is a decent destination for an away game, from a fan's perspective (could easily make a weekend trip out of a basketball game, especially if you like US history).

However, there's no reason for the A10 to add us. We would be available at basically any time, so there's no pressing need for the A10 to invite us now. If we go on a run where we make the tournament a few years in a row, then maybe they'll come calling.

Plus, a problem arises that you'd have to add William and Mary. Does the A-10 have room for two new schools.

(12-27-2023 03:58 PM)esayem Wrote:  I think W&M is a great institutional fit, but their basketball history is terrible.

Furman is probably not going to get the support that CofC will

I get what you're saying, but I think part of the A-10 institutional fit IS BASKETBALL.

I'm not saying basketball is more important than academics, because it's not. I'm saying that I went to a BASKETBALL SCHOOL. An Atlantic-10 school...

Basketball is like my 5th favorite sport. But I'd pick my alma mater winning the NCAA Tournament in men's basketball over my pro teams winning MLB, NHL, NFL, NBA or any soccer championship. It transcends. The best example is American soccer fans. If you've been a Manchester United fan for 20 years, you'd probably rather see USA win the World Cup than Man U win another EPL title. You LIKE Man United, but you ARE American.

I'm NOT a basketball fan. I'm a college hoops junkie because I am a Bonnie.

No offense to William & Mary, but you're not an institutional fit if that's not part of your school's identity. Because it absolutely is at St. Bonaventure, Dayton, VCU, Davidson, etc.

(12-27-2023 06:21 PM)JSchmack Wrote:  I get what you're saying, but I think part of the A-10 institutional fit IS BASKETBALL.

That doesn't explain Fordham.

(12-27-2023 06:37 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  

(12-27-2023 06:21 PM)JSchmack Wrote:  I get what you're saying, but I think part of the A-10 institutional fit IS BASKETBALL.

That doesn't explain Fordham.

Yeah, there's some schools in the A-10 who looked like that at the time, but aren't that.

Keep in mind that Fordham won the Patriot League regular season title in 4 out of 5 years before joining the A-10. They were invited because they were the best option in New York City for a conference trying to get a better TV deal.

(12-27-2023 06:21 PM)JSchmack Wrote:  

(12-27-2023 03:58 PM)esayem Wrote:  I think W&M is a great institutional fit, but their basketball history is terrible.

Furman is probably not going to get the support that CofC will

I get what you're saying, but I think part of the A-10 institutional fit IS BASKETBALL.

I'm not saying basketball is more important than academics, because it's not. I'm saying that I went to a BASKETBALL SCHOOL. An Atlantic-10 school...

Basketball is like my 5th favorite sport. But I'd pick my alma mater winning the NCAA Tournament in men's basketball over my pro teams winning MLB, NHL, NFL, NBA or any soccer championship. It transcends. The best example is American soccer fans. If you've been a Manchester United fan for 20 years, you'd probably rather see USA win the World Cup than Man U win another EPL title. You LIKE Man United, but you ARE American.

I'm NOT a basketball fan. I'm a college hoops junkie because I am a Bonnie.

No offense to William & Mary, but you're not an institutional fit if that's not part of your school's identity. Because it absolutely is at St. Bonaventure, Dayton, VCU, Davidson, etc.

Well, the conference was founded as a basketball conference, so that makes sense.

George Mason is a head scratcher.

(12-27-2023 10:37 PM)esayem Wrote:  Well, the conference was founded as a basketball conference, so that makes sense.

George Mason is a head scratcher.

It's harder to articulate it than just show you. Think about a "Best of the Rest" basketball conference. Who's MADE THE FINAL FOUR and would be available to you?

Bradley (1)
Dayton (1) - ATLANTIC 10
Drake (1)
Duquesne (1) - ATLANTIC 10
George Mason (1) - ATLANTIC 10
Gonzaga (2)
Holy Cross (1)
Indiana St (1)
Jacksonville (1)
LaSalle (2) - ATLANTIC 10
Loyola (2) - ATLANTIC 10
UMass (1) - FBS, but ATLANTIC 10
St. Bonaventure (1) - ATLANTIC 10
Saint Joseph's (1) - ATLANTIC 10
San Francisco (2)
Santa Clara (1)
Seattle (1)
VCU (1) - ATLANTIC 10

The A-10 wanted to monopolize that list of "Non-FBS, Non-Big East, Non-Ivy, Division I schools with Final Four banners."

They also had Temple (2), and Charlotte, and Butler... who've switched sides.
And most of us A-10 fans were saying "we should invite Wichita State" during the Gregg Marshall era.