Quote:The Biden administration is currently making moves to figure out how to use some $300 billion in frozen Russian money in order to further bankroll Ukraine.

Western officials are struggling to come to an agreement on a method to seize Russian funds without scaring international investors, reports the Wall Street Journal.

Now, the Group of Seven democracies (G7), which includes Canada, France, Germany, Italy, Japan, the United Kingdom and the United States, is hoping it can find a means to embark on this mission before the second anniversary of Russia's invasion on Ukraine in February.

Disagreements between the nations have brewed. US and United Kingdom officials have backed the idea of taking these Russian funds, whereas European partners, particularly Germany, believe that confiscating Russia's sovereign assets would backfire, as it could discourage other nations around the globe from trusting their wealth in the West for fear it might get stolen.

“The G-7 leaders asked that options be developed and the matter be studied, to the extent that there are risks that they’d be evaluated, international law issues studied and so we’re in the process of doing that, but certainly no decision has been made,” US Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen stated this week.

Numerous G-7 leaders have said that Russia must foot the bill for the war's cost.

British Foreign Secretary David Cameron declared that the legal arguments behind seizing Russian money are legitimate.

“I am pushing hard on this. The world has changed. The arguments against are not as strong as people said, and there is a legal route,” he said.

Others take a different perspective. Jacob Kirkegaard, a senior fellow at the Peterson Institute for International Economics, remarked that confiscating Russian assets could pose some risk as there “is a concern among some—the US Treasury, the Fed, the ECB—that if you do this you undermine the reserve status of the dollar and euro.”

Link

The American taxpayer is tired of footing the bill and the people pulling dumbo's strings know it.

The American taxpayer is going to pay, one way or another.

If the West ultimately decides to try to steal $300 billion from Russia, Russia is simply going to seize Western assets in Russia which are worth far, far, far more.

Western governments will likely compensate companies for their losses, and that will come from taxpayers.

What will likely happen is this- countries that have the most exposure to Russia will block the plans to give the money to Ukraine, in order to try to save their assets. Then, the US will hold on to the money to shield, say, Germany, South Korea, or France from the repercussions.

And that won’t work. Russia won’t be giving releasing any western assets until they receive their money. Countries will then pressure the US to return it to Russia or compensate them for their losses. If we won’t/can’t, they won’t have as much money for NATO or weapons purchases, but we will then need to subsidize the MIC for their losses, and the taxpayers will foot the bill anyway.

No amount of fake tough talk about “seizing Russian assets” corresponds to reality. The US cannot win this. No matter how many headlines the government plants about the topic to try and make it look like they were successful, they will likely never admit had much the collective west lost in this futile fiasco.

#OutmaneuveredAgain #ColorRevolutionFailure #RussiaWinsAmericaBorrows

https://foreignpolicy.com/2023/11/27/rus...sanctions/

Foreign Policy takes a look at the ramifications. It would likely be far too expensive for the West to risk such a foolish venture.

Trust in the US and European financial systems is a large part of what keeps their economies afloat. Once that is eroded, a large chunk of the those funds will dry up.

Yep, the west overplayed their hand, overestimated their own clout, and are either going to lose face and reputations when they are forced to back down to Russia again, or borrow billions more to make their companies whole.

The only way the US can win this type of tit for tat is to stop giving American tax dollars to foreign countries. Common sense Americans know you don't pay someone else's bills before you pay your own. You certainly don't borrow money to pay someone else's bills.

With that being said, the United States has been the world's police force for too long. We need to be done being the world's bank. The American taxpayer's check book needs to reserved for the needs of Americans.

(01-18-2024 08:20 AM)Todor Wrote:  The American taxpayer is going to pay, one way or another.

If the West ultimately decides to try to steal $300 billion from Russia, Russia is simply going to seize Western assets in Russia which are worth far, far, far more.

Western governments will likely compensate companies for their losses, and that will come from taxpayers.

What will likely happen is this- countries that have the most exposure to Russia will block the plans to give the money to Ukraine, in order to try to save their assets. Then, the US will hold on to the money to shield, say, Germany, South Korea, or France from the repercussions.

And that won’t work. Russia won’t be giving releasing any western assets until they receive their money. Countries will then pressure the US to return it to Russia or compensate them for their losses. If we won’t/can’t, they won’t have as much money for NATO or weapons purchases, but we will then need to subsidize the MIC for their losses, and the taxpayers will foot the bill anyway.

No amount of fake tough talk about “seizing Russian assets” corresponds to reality. The US cannot win this. No matter how many headlines the government plants about the topic to try and make it look like they were successful, they will likely never admit had much the collective west lost in this futile fiasco.

#OutmaneuveredAgain #ColorRevolutionFailure #RussiaWinsAmericaBorrows

This

Biden* is an idiot.

You cannot effectively restrict trade with a country upon which you or your allies, or indeed the world market, rely for any essential good--like crude oil or natural gas. They have the leverage, and in the end can force workarounds for any restriction you apply.

It's well past time to retire the old Cold Warriors at places like State and DoD and CIA, who forced upon us policies that drove Russia toward China since the 1990s, when a smarter strategy would have been to triangulate Russia against China. We are in Cold War II, the enemy this time is China, and the battle is going to be more economic than military.

(01-18-2024 09:04 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  You cannot effectively restrict trade with a country upon which you or your allies, or indeed the world market, rely for any essential good--like crude oil or natural gas. They have the leverage, and in the end can force workarounds for any restriction you apply.

It's well past time to retire the old Cold Warriors at places like State and DoD and CIA, who forced upon us policies that drove Russia toward China since the 1990s, when a smarter strategy would have been to triangulate Russia against China. We are in Cold War II, the enemy this time is China, and the battle is going to be more economic than military.

But we have the whole “rules based order” countries on our side as backup.

Again, we want someone else to face the primarily consequences for us trying to steal from Russia.

Just imagine how quickly this idea would be put to rest if Ukraine actually held an election and Zelensky was out of power, replaced by someone moderate.

Rebuild Ukraine? Reparations to Ukraine? Those ideas would be out the window so fast…It’s all about the powerful western people who want their grubby little mitts on a fortune.

Russia will win the asset seizure game. The numbers are heavily, heavily in their favor.

And even what’s been done so far by Europe and the US, the damage is done to their markets. A big chunk of the Global South knows they can’t trust Western financial institutions.

#Brics

(01-18-2024 08:20 AM)Todor Wrote:  The American taxpayer is going to pay, one way or another.

If the West ultimately decides to try to steal $300 billion from Russia, Russia is simply going to seize Western assets in Russia which are worth far, far, far more.

Western governments will likely compensate companies for their losses, and that will come from taxpayers.

What will likely happen is this- countries that have the most exposure to Russia will block the plans to give the money to Ukraine, in order to try to save their assets. Then, the US will hold on to the money to shield, say, Germany, South Korea, or France from the repercussions.

And that won’t work. Russia won’t be giving releasing any western assets until they receive their money. Countries will then pressure the US to return it to Russia or compensate them for their losses. If we won’t/can’t, they won’t have as much money for NATO or weapons purchases, but we will then need to subsidize the MIC for their losses, and the taxpayers will foot the bill anyway.

No amount of fake tough talk about “seizing Russian assets” corresponds to reality. The US cannot win this. No matter how many headlines the government plants about the topic to try and make it look like they were successful, they will likely never admit had much the collective west lost in this futile fiasco.

#OutmaneuveredAgain #ColorRevolutionFailure #RussiaWinsAmericaBorrows

Almost 400 million dead and virtually all the front line Russian armor units that were the legacy inheritance from the old Soviet Union are now gone. A decent chunk of the mighty impotent Black Sea fleet is now at the bottom of the ocean---and what remains is now forced to hide in makeshift ports in occupied Georgia (yet another illegally held territory by a rogue nation that has never cared all that much about intentional law or world norms). The reality is Russia has been degraded to the point its no longer any threat to NATO.

Now all that needs to be done is create conditions for peace. Ukraine recently hit the oil production facility in St Petersburg. I think this is a harbinger of the next phase of the war---and it will be the reason peace likely comes sooner rather than later. Putin could care less if Russians are slaughtered by the bushel at the front, but he does care about his money---and if his oil infrastructure starts getting hit----he will likely feel he now has something to lose and will become far more willing to talk peace. While he publicly refuses to consider a land for security deal---the reality is Zelenski has little choice in the matter----in the end, its going to be a territory for security deal.

The only thing to negotiate is how much territory and what form the security looks like. I suspect it will be something similar to the current military lines in place coupled with a NATO membership---but thats just pure speculation on my part.

For all the local propagandists talk of sanction failures---the reality is it is becoming harder and harder for Russia to do business. China knows there is waaaay more upside in being part of the established western international financial system than any alternative system the Russians can create. For the Chinese, when push comes to shove, the Russian alternative financial market is not going to be the preferred option---especially now that Chinese financial stability is teetering on the edge due to an internal real estate collapse.


https://www.ft.com/content/07075093-1bb5...4d80452409

Good

(01-18-2024 08:27 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  Good

why, chico?

(01-18-2024 08:27 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  Good

(01-18-2024 08:41 PM)Kyle Mack Wrote:  

(01-18-2024 08:27 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  Good

lol ... he thinks Logan's run is a real thingy ... he forgot one small item .... #2AandTheNon-wokeMilitary

(01-18-2024 07:01 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Almost 400 million dead and virtually all the front line Russian armor units that were the legacy inheritance from the old Soviet Union are now gone.

Not sure what # you were thinking of but it’s definitely not 400 million.

Quote:The only thing to negotiate is how much territory and what form the security looks like. I suspect it will be something similar to the current military lines in place coupled with a NATO membership---but thats just pure speculation on my part.

I think that’s fairly close to the mark. Russia keeps what it’s taken, and the surviving rump of Ukraine gets NATO. No war crimes-tribunals or arrest-warrants from The Hague. The new boundaries are legally acknowledged by all parties.

If the US takes Russias money, Ukraine won’t get it, Russia will seize a much, much greater amount of Western assets that are in Russia, and western taxpayers will probably be on the hook to compensate companies for their lost property because that’s how governments work for big companies and rich people.

We lose, then lose again, and then have to borrow hundreds of billions to make some rich risk takers whole. And you know the government will do that. We all know they will. They do it every time.

And we’ll try to save face the whole time on top of it all. They will try to convince the public they “won” and that it was all worth it lol.

Just wait.

(01-18-2024 09:09 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  

(01-18-2024 07:01 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Almost 400 million dead and virtually all the front line Russian armor units that were the legacy inheritance from the old Soviet Union are now gone.

Not sure what # you were thinking of but it’s definitely not 400 million.

Quote:The only thing to negotiate is how much territory and what form the security looks like. I suspect it will be something similar to the current military lines in place coupled with a NATO membership---but thats just pure speculation on my part.

I think that’s fairly close to the mark. Russia keeps what it’s taken, and the surviving rump of Ukraine gets NATO. No war crimes-tribunals or arrest-warrants from The Hague. The new boundaries are legally acknowledged by all parties.

Ukraine will likely be barred from joining NATO or Russia won’t stop. Just because the west is tired of paying for the mess they created, doesn’t mean the Russian response to it will stop. Russia doesn’t need to “please” the west by giving up anything at this point.

They have already taken the best the west has thrown at it and keeping it going. Extending it is the best way Russia can continue to bleed NATO. Europe is broke. Their economies are shrinking. The US has to borrow to pay for it. With the issues in Israel, the US would likely borrow its last dime defending Israel versus the U.S. itself.

The actual US and its people are way down on the list of things that are important to the CIA/military/globalists etc.

Russia has a far greater willingness to protect Russian people and Russian territory than NATO has to back up its regime change game and excursions long term.

(01-18-2024 10:36 PM)Todor Wrote:  If the US takes Russias money, Ukraine won’t get it, Russia will seize a much, much greater amount of Western assets that are in Russia, and western taxpayers will probably be on the hook to compensate companies for their lost property because that’s how governments work for big companies and rich people.

We lose, then lose again, and then have to borrow hundreds of billions to make some rich risk takers whole. And you know the government will do that. We all know they will. They do it every time.

And we’ll try to save face the whole time on top of it all. They will try to convince the public they “won” and that it was all worth it lol.

Just wait.

I'm still waiting for men(s)t®ual's response ... we'll have to get back to ya on that ...

(01-18-2024 09:09 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  

(01-18-2024 07:01 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Almost 400 million dead and virtually all the front line Russian armor units that were the legacy inheritance from the old Soviet Union are now gone.

Not sure what # you were thinking of but it’s definitely not 400 million.

Quote:The only thing to negotiate is how much territory and what form the security looks like. I suspect it will be something similar to the current military lines in place coupled with a NATO membership---but thats just pure speculation on my part.

I think that’s fairly close to the mark. Russia keeps what it’s taken, and the surviving rump of Ukraine gets NATO. No war crimes-tribunals or arrest-warrants from The Hague. The new boundaries are legally acknowledged by all parties.

Good Lord. My bad. Closing in on 400K Russian military casualties.