That vast Ukrainian "Navy" has now claimed 1/3 of Russia's Black Sea Fleet, if these reports are to be believed. Using sea drones, they disabled then sunk the ship. Or, as some commenters said, Russia is expanding their submarine fleet.

The timing is interesting, too. If true, according to one commenter;

Quote:The interesting thing is that on this very same day, but in 1943, Caesar Lvovich Kunikov, the Soviet hero after whom the ship is named, died following the Battle for Malaya Zemlya against German forces.

Happy anniversary. Surprise!





As a reminder, I am not a cheerleader for either side in this dispute. Let them fight it out.

The drone aspect of this war had changed the face of warfare forever. It's fascinating.

Surface anti ship drones with 400 lb bombs...on the extreme of its range so they suspect a mother drone ship dispersing them within range.

I am also reading that there are also underwater drones that can attack.

Agree about it changing the face of warfare.

When the first ship went down, someone put out a Russian press release. "This ship has been promoted to submarine."

(02-14-2024 02:31 PM)MileHighBronco Wrote:  I am also reading that there are also underwater drones that can attack.

Agree about it changing the face of warfare.

These and the aerial drones have massively changed things.

Its a lot harder to survive.

There was an article this week that discussed how the drone operators have become like WWI pilots who all know each others name. There are entire units of hunter killer drone operators whose job it is to locate the transmission signals and destroy opposing operators. Like a video game.

Drones have made being in a stationary position a death sentence. Same with non fortified troop carriers.

Drones now have thermal imagery so bunkers don't even hide boots on the ground....the race for developing gear that masks thermal image to make fighters invisible is in full swing.

Another story this past week about a drone operator who located a wounded aolidier behind lines...he was able to drop the wounded soldier a note to crawl to follow the drone as he picked his way through defenses.

It's crazy stuff.

(02-14-2024 02:34 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(02-14-2024 02:31 PM)MileHighBronco Wrote:  I am also reading that there are also underwater drones that can attack.

Agree about it changing the face of warfare.

These and the aerial drones have massively changed things.

Its a lot harder to survive.

Was just reading about Harriers being used to shoot down the drones used by the Houthis.

Quote:Gun kills against small aerial targets are generally judged to be tricky to achieve without a good deal of practice and it’s unclear if the pilots involved would have trained for aerial gunnery in any capacity. They can also be dangerous with the possibility of running into such a small target.

One former Harrier pilot told The War Zone: “Guns would be possible but tricky — very tricky — but fun too.”

The unique performance of the AV-8 might also make it an especially useful platform for targeting slower-moving threats. As we have explained in the past, the Harrier’s four thrust-vectoring nozzles, combined with reaction control vanes and augmented aerodynamic control, provide the pilot with some remarkable slow-speed flying qualities that could be useful in engagements with slow-flying drones.

While we don’t know the exact types of drones that were intercepted, the Iranian-designed Shahed-136 that has been used by the Houthis (and by Russia) reportedly has a top speed of only around 115 miles per hour.

https://www.twz.com/air/marine-corps-av-...nes-report

(02-14-2024 02:26 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  The drone aspect of this war had changed the face of warfare forever. It's fascinating.

Surface anti ship drones with 400 lb bombs...on the extreme of its range so they suspect a mother drone ship dispersing them within range.

Whats crazy is this is just scratching the surface. These drones are basically just "rams". Rams ceased being a serious naval weapon around the days of the Civil War. Actually manuevering into position to make contact with an armed vessel is very difficult, yet these surface drones have had substantial success in doing so.

These Sea Baby's (and similar small Ukrainian surface drones) carry a pretty large warhead (anywhere from 600-to-1900 pounds, depending on the model and information source). That size warhead is well within the weight range of a light torpedo or a small anti-ship missile. Once these surface drones are developed enough to launch a small torpedo or missile---they wont have to make actual direct contact with their target to sink them. From what Ive seen so far, these things will have no trouble at all getting within several miles of a target---and if they are armed with a small anti-ship missile or torpedo---thats close enough to hit the target.....and the bonus is a missile/torpedo armed Sea Baby could return to shore after an attack and be reloaded for another mission. Its worth noting that Sea Babys outfitted with unguided MLRS rockets have already been used to attack a target in Crimea---so they seem to be advancing toward the capability Im describing.

Currently, the Ukrainians are also working on underwater drones----and I think those could be even more effective.

This guy does a really good job...omnibus weekly recap. Everything from politics, to ordinance, and the status of every area of operation. Provides direct links.

The stuff on drone warfare alone is worth sorting through.

https://redstate.com/streiff/2024/02/12/...2-n2169608

(02-14-2024 02:40 PM)MileHighBronco Wrote:  

(02-14-2024 02:34 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(02-14-2024 02:31 PM)MileHighBronco Wrote:  I am also reading that there are also underwater drones that can attack.

Agree about it changing the face of warfare.

These and the aerial drones have massively changed things.

Its a lot harder to survive.

Was just reading about Harriers being used to shoot down the drones used by the Houthis.

Quote:Gun kills against small aerial targets are generally judged to be tricky to achieve without a good deal of practice and it’s unclear if the pilots involved would have trained for aerial gunnery in any capacity. They can also be dangerous with the possibility of running into such a small target.

One former Harrier pilot told The War Zone: “Guns would be possible but tricky — very tricky — but fun too.”

The unique performance of the AV-8 might also make it an especially useful platform for targeting slower-moving threats. As we have explained in the past, the Harrier’s four thrust-vectoring nozzles, combined with reaction control vanes and augmented aerodynamic control, provide the pilot with some remarkable slow-speed flying qualities that could be useful in engagements with slow-flying drones.

While we don’t know the exact types of drones that were intercepted, the Iranian-designed Shahed-136 that has been used by the Houthis (and by Russia) reportedly has a top speed of only around 115 miles per hour.

https://www.twz.com/air/marine-corps-av-...nes-report

Ive said for a while I think something like a propeller driven A-29 Super Tucano armed with a 20mm auto-cannon pod and a night/infared targeting ability would be ideal for hunting these slow moving "moped" suicide drones. Its yet another thing the proposed Bell-V247 automous naval drone would be excellent for.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embraer_EM...per_Tucano

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_V-247_Vigilant

So clearly they don't need billions more from the US.

(02-14-2024 04:10 PM)CrimsonPhantom Wrote:  So clearly they don't need billions more from the US.

One has nothing to do with the other. What everyone involved really needs is a reasonable negotiated settlement. Ive not seen any reasonable settlement suggested by anyone at this point. Putin has generously offered to take the Ukrainian land off their hands in exchange for unconditional surrender on the Ukrainians part. The Ukrainians have offer to call it a day if all Russian troops leave Ukraine and return to Russia's pre-2014 borders. Neither is a realistic settlement offer given the current war map and the inability of either side to do much to change it.

In just one month of attacks on Russia's oil infrastructure, Russia's diesel and gasoline exports have already dropped by 25% and 33% respectively. My sense is now that Putin's money machine oil infrastructure is being degraded---he's suddenly become a lot more interested in a negotiated settlement---but because he is not as dumb as President Biden, he isnt giving away any bargaining chips before any talks even begin. I think its time for these folks to get into a room and actually discuss a legitimate compromise settlement---rather than simply trading ridiculously unrealistic negotiating positions back and forth.

(02-14-2024 02:58 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(02-14-2024 02:26 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  The drone aspect of this war had changed the face of warfare forever. It's fascinating.

Surface anti ship drones with 400 lb bombs...on the extreme of its range so they suspect a mother drone ship dispersing them within range.

Whats crazy is this is just scratching the surface. These drones are basically just "rams". Rams ceased being a serious naval weapon around the days of the Civil War. Actually manuevering into position to make contact with an armed vessel is very difficult, yet these surface drones have had substantial success in doing so.

These Sea Baby's (and similar small Ukrainian surface drones) carry a pretty large warhead (anywhere from 600-to-1900 pounds, depending on the model and information source). That size warhead is well within the weight range of a light torpedo or a small anti-ship missile. Once these surface drones are developed enough to launch a small torpedo or missile---they wont have to make actual direct contact with their target to sink them. From what Ive seen so far, these things will have no trouble at all getting within several miles of a target---and if they are armed with a small anti-ship missile or torpedo---thats close enough to hit the target.....and the bonus is a missile/torpedo armed Sea Baby could return to shore after an attack and be reloaded for another mission. Its worth noting that Sea Babys outfitted with unguided MLRS rockets have already been used to attack a target in Crimea---so they seem to be advancing toward the capability Im describing.

Currently, the Ukrainians are also working on underwater drones----and I think those could be even more effective.

NGAD is supposed to have a unmanned variant. You make a full size F22 without a pilot, that's more or less expendable, you change the face of air superiority. Especially if the B21 is supposed to operate as a drone "mothership" as speculated

Sent from my SM-F946U using Tapatalk

(02-14-2024 04:10 PM)CrimsonPhantom Wrote:  So clearly they don't need billions more from the US.

Nobody wants to say the quiet part out loud...I don't even think I've seen someone else write this opinion...this is the single biggest paid defense industry laboratory the world has seen to date.

Every western nation's defense apparatus is involved directly or is stealing as much info and data as possible.

Pay to play. Guaranteed the DoD and the Lockheed's, BAE's Northman's, Raytheon's, etc all have staff on site and designated at their home offices. Watch the sea change in warfare strategy and hardware that comes out of this in the next decade. Only cost a couple hundred billion and a few million lives.

SEND THEM ANOTHER BILLION

FFS

(02-14-2024 07:41 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  

(02-14-2024 04:10 PM)CrimsonPhantom Wrote:  So clearly they don't need billions more from the US.

Nobody wants to say the quiet part out loud...I don't even think I've seen someone else write this opinion...this is the single biggest paid defense industry laboratory the world has seen to date.

Every western nation's defense apparatus is involved directly or is stealing as much info and data as possible.

Pay to play. Guaranteed the DoD and the Lockheed's, BAE's Northman's, Raytheon's, etc all have staff on site and designated at their home offices. Watch the sea change in warfare strategy and hardware that comes out of this in the next decade. Only cost a couple hundred billion and a few million lives.

To me the biggest lesson so far in Ukraine is that millions can be taken out by cheap stuff that costs thousands. Same lesson is playing out on the Black Sea. Its why I'd put a hold on retiring the LCS fleet. They may turn out to be a very useful platform to function as a drone tender/control hub for a squad of surface, underwater, and flying drones. The flying drone part and underwater drones are especially intriguing given todays news that the US is concerned about its satellite constellation. If you lose satellite coverage, then your back to WWII when it comes to situational awareness and locating enemy vessels. A fleet of 35 fast vessels that can each launch 2 or 3 long range VTOL aircraft and control multiple ASW drones could be very helpful in the situational awareness picture in the Pacific.