I don't think 3-2 is real. As Wilner points out it's tilted in favor of the Big 12 and ACC, not in proportion to their valuations. But 4-1 is equally titled. The actual ration is about 4-2, but that almost forces 16 schools, and takes away the guarantee of SEC and B1G champs getting byes into the Sugar and Rose Bowls.

This is all headed toward an invitational CFP rather than a NCAA CFP. If they break away, the SEC and B1G can dispense with the G5 access and had a 4-2 with 2 at-large. Maybe that is the end result.

(03-05-2024 12:02 PM)Eichorst Wrote:  So with the 2nd AQ for Big XII and ACC and the diminishing value of the CCG, would the Big XII and ACC be fighting for a guaranteed home game? Is that how they'd keep that CCG interesting?

And for the B1G and SEC, AQ1 gets a bye, AQ2 gets a home game, and AQ3 is just a regular guaranteed bid without a home game?

If they expand this to 16, Big 12/ACC do a 2vs3 play-in as that will generate interest. Probably a campus game the last weekend.

I would venture B1G and SEC should do a 4/5 play-in, as the bye would be eliminated in a straight 16. Again, everyone knows where I stand on CCGs that don't involve byes at the very least. If it's stays 14, good for the SEC/B1G to have something to play for.

At 14, I suspect it will stay 3/3/2/2/1, so you do play-in (Big 12) Friday, (ACC) noon Sat, SEC CCG, B1G CCG, and G5 games. No conference is adversely impacted as far as playing a meaningless CCG game. That's the best case scenario, but I don't like the six games on the third weekend. I think you eliminate the bye and bump the semester up a week for all FBS football players. Move Army/Navy out.

My preference is 16 (really becomes 21 team playoff) with 4 P4 play-in games (M2 2v3s and P2 4v5s), with the first round the following week. I'd also prefer a G5- play-in. Play-in schools are in a bit of a bind with exams, but they are welcome to forfeit the game. The problem with this is CCG weekend would be severely downgraded in terms of matchups.

ESPN isn't going to want play in games. They paid the conferences for the CCG. Period the end. Not sloppy seconds with potentially teams not even in the top 20. Do you really think ESPN would want Louisville/NC State 14/19? I sure don't. And yeah, ESPN is paying the bill.

(03-05-2024 12:46 PM)stever20 Wrote:  ESPN isn't going to want play in games. They paid the conferences for the CCG. Period the end. Not sloppy seconds with potentially teams not even in the top 20. Do you really think ESPN would want Louisville/NC State 14/19? I sure don't. And yeah, ESPN is paying the bill.

But that is exactly what will end up happening so long as the #1 team is guaranteed a campus game... pretty logical to be honest. No worse than an 8 seed for next two conference champs clause. There is no rule where ESPN can tell them who plays in a game that the conferences own.

(03-05-2024 12:56 PM)RUScarlets Wrote:  

(03-05-2024 12:46 PM)stever20 Wrote:  ESPN isn't going to want play in games. They paid the conferences for the CCG. Period the end. Not sloppy seconds with potentially teams not even in the top 20. Do you really think ESPN would want Louisville/NC State 14/19? I sure don't. And yeah, ESPN is paying the bill.

But that is exactly what will end up happening so long as the #1 team is guaranteed a campus game... pretty logical to be honest. No worse than an 8 seed for next two conference champs clause. There is no rule where ESPN can tell them who plays in a game that the conferences own.

ESPN paid for the CCG being top 2 teams. ESPN absolutely can tell them who plays there or withold paying them.

(03-05-2024 12:57 PM)stever20 Wrote:  ESPN paid for the CCG being top 2 teams. ESPN absolutely can tell them who plays there or withold paying them.

Yeah... okay bud. Pull up the TV contracts (maybe the Big 12's isn't locked away in some nuclear waste vault) and show me where that is explicitly said.

(03-05-2024 01:01 PM)RUScarlets Wrote:  

(03-05-2024 12:57 PM)stever20 Wrote:  ESPN paid for the CCG being top 2 teams. ESPN absolutely can tell them who plays there or withold paying them.

Yeah... okay bud. Pull up the TV contracts (maybe the Big 12's isn't locked away in some nuclear waste vault) and show me where that is explicitly said.

It's ******* common sense. The CCG has always been determined based on the top teams in the conference. ESPN paid for that. Not your dumb ****. ESPN absolutely would want the CCG to go on as is. Also just as importantly, Charlotte would want the CCG to be as is.

I know you want to just shoot the CCG into the sun, but that just isn't gonna happen.

(03-05-2024 12:11 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  I don't think 3-2 is real. As Wilner points out it's tilted in favor of the Big 12 and ACC, not in proportion to their valuations. But 4-1 is equally titled. The actual ration is about 4-2, but that almost forces 16 schools, and takes away the guarantee of SEC and B1G champs getting byes into the Sugar and Rose Bowls.

This is all headed toward an invitational CFP rather than a NCAA CFP. If they break away, the SEC and B1G can dispense with the G5 access and had a 4-2 with 2 at-large. Maybe that is the end result.

Well with 16 schools, the G5 start to get 2nd teams in. With 14, it would be rare. Notre Dame and the G5 disproportionately benefit from going to 14 to 16.

I think what all this discussion shows is that more than 1 AQ per conference is just a ridiculous idea. Look at all the gyrations and permutations people are discussing. Look at how the brackets get turned upside down. KISS!!!! A 5/9 (not factoring the differing schedules) would have resulted in the SEC and Big averaging 4, the ACC and Big 12 averaging 2, the G5 1 with the extra one split between Notre Dame and the SEC.

(03-05-2024 01:04 PM)stever20 Wrote:  It's ******* common sense. The CCG has always been determined based on the top teams in the conference. ESPN paid for that. Not your dumb ****. ESPN absolutely would want the CCG to go on as is. Also just as importantly, Charlotte would want the CCG to be as is.

I know you want to just shoot the CCG into the sun, but that just isn't gonna happen.

Yet, there are people that get paid to talk about CFB that are writing or vlogging about this very scenario... and at least I'm not here pounding my chest like I have all the answers. Your position is based on past history and is highly speculative at best. But keep cussing every other post about it.

(03-05-2024 01:13 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(03-05-2024 12:11 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  I don't think 3-2 is real. As Wilner points out it's tilted in favor of the Big 12 and ACC, not in proportion to their valuations. But 4-1 is equally titled. The actual ration is about 4-2, but that almost forces 16 schools, and takes away the guarantee of SEC and B1G champs getting byes into the Sugar and Rose Bowls.

This is all headed toward an invitational CFP rather than a NCAA CFP. If they break away, the SEC and B1G can dispense with the G5 access and had a 4-2 with 2 at-large. Maybe that is the end result.

Well with 16 schools, the G5 start to get 2nd teams in. With 14, it would be rare. Notre Dame and the G5 disproportionately benefit from going to 14 to 16.

I think what all this discussion shows is that more than 1 AQ per conference is just a ridiculous idea. Look at all the gyrations and permutations people are discussing. Look at how the brackets get turned upside down. KISS!!!! A 5/9 (not factoring the differing schedules) would have resulted in the SEC and Big averaging 4, the ACC and Big 12 averaging 2, the G5 1 with the extra one split between Notre Dame and the SEC.

Yeah don't think I agree with 16 getting 2 G5 in often at all. I mean going into final weekend last year Tulane and Liberty were 22 and 24.

(03-05-2024 01:34 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(03-05-2024 01:13 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(03-05-2024 12:11 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  I don't think 3-2 is real. As Wilner points out it's tilted in favor of the Big 12 and ACC, not in proportion to their valuations. But 4-1 is equally titled. The actual ration is about 4-2, but that almost forces 16 schools, and takes away the guarantee of SEC and B1G champs getting byes into the Sugar and Rose Bowls.

This is all headed toward an invitational CFP rather than a NCAA CFP. If they break away, the SEC and B1G can dispense with the G5 access and had a 4-2 with 2 at-large. Maybe that is the end result.

Well with 16 schools, the G5 start to get 2nd teams in. With 14, it would be rare. Notre Dame and the G5 disproportionately benefit from going to 14 to 16.

I think what all this discussion shows is that more than 1 AQ per conference is just a ridiculous idea. Look at all the gyrations and permutations people are discussing. Look at how the brackets get turned upside down. KISS!!!! A 5/9 (not factoring the differing schedules) would have resulted in the SEC and Big averaging 4, the ACC and Big 12 averaging 2, the G5 1 with the extra one split between Notre Dame and the SEC.

Yeah don't think I agree with 16 getting 2 G5 in often at all. I mean going into final weekend last year Tulane and Liberty were 22 and 24.

Well scheduling would be different. And a lot of times it was due to Washington St., Oregon St. or Boise St. during their really good years. And WSU/OSU and Boise might not be as good in the future. But it would have happened 7 times in the BCS/CFP era and the P4 would want it to be zero. There was never a case of two current G5 schools in the top 14:
2022 Oregon St. 14, Tulane 16
2012 Oregon St. 13, Northern Illinois 15
2010 Boise St. 10, Nevada 15
2003 Miami 11, Washington St. 16
2002 Washington St. 6, Boise St. 16
2001 Marshall 12, Southern Miss 16
1998 Tulane 10, Air Force 16

I will add that prior to 2004, the BCS only went to 15 teams. Those #16 teams are based on the poll rankings and prior to 2014 it was based on the BCS formula, not a committee.

(03-05-2024 02:35 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(03-05-2024 01:34 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(03-05-2024 01:13 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(03-05-2024 12:11 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  I don't think 3-2 is real. As Wilner points out it's tilted in favor of the Big 12 and ACC, not in proportion to their valuations. But 4-1 is equally titled. The actual ration is about 4-2, but that almost forces 16 schools, and takes away the guarantee of SEC and B1G champs getting byes into the Sugar and Rose Bowls.

This is all headed toward an invitational CFP rather than a NCAA CFP. If they break away, the SEC and B1G can dispense with the G5 access and had a 4-2 with 2 at-large. Maybe that is the end result.

Well with 16 schools, the G5 start to get 2nd teams in. With 14, it would be rare. Notre Dame and the G5 disproportionately benefit from going to 14 to 16.

I think what all this discussion shows is that more than 1 AQ per conference is just a ridiculous idea. Look at all the gyrations and permutations people are discussing. Look at how the brackets get turned upside down. KISS!!!! A 5/9 (not factoring the differing schedules) would have resulted in the SEC and Big averaging 4, the ACC and Big 12 averaging 2, the G5 1 with the extra one split between Notre Dame and the SEC.

Yeah don't think I agree with 16 getting 2 G5 in often at all. I mean going into final weekend last year Tulane and Liberty were 22 and 24.

Well scheduling would be different. And a lot of times it was due to Washington St., Oregon St. or Boise St. during their really good years. And WSU/OSU and Boise might not be as good in the future. But it would have happened 7 times in the BCS/CFP era and the P4 would want it to be zero. There was never a case of two current G5 schools in the top 14:
2022 Oregon St. 14, Tulane 16
2012 Oregon St. 13, Northern Illinois 15
2010 Boise St. 10, Nevada 15
2003 Miami 11, Washington St. 16
2002 Washington St. 6, Boise St. 16
2001 Marshall 12, Southern Miss 16
1998 Tulane 10, Air Force 16

I will add that prior to 2004, the BCS only went to 15 teams. Those #16 teams are based on the poll rankings and prior to 2014 it was based on the BCS formula, not a committee.

Yeah sorry but Oregon St in there is a freaking joke. Their schedule going to be nothing like what it was before-so therefore it's gonna be harder for them to ever get ranked that high. Of those 7 examples you gave, 4 are with Oregon St and Washington St.

(03-05-2024 02:35 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(03-05-2024 01:34 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(03-05-2024 01:13 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(03-05-2024 12:11 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  I don't think 3-2 is real. As Wilner points out it's tilted in favor of the Big 12 and ACC, not in proportion to their valuations. But 4-1 is equally titled. The actual ration is about 4-2, but that almost forces 16 schools, and takes away the guarantee of SEC and B1G champs getting byes into the Sugar and Rose Bowls.

This is all headed toward an invitational CFP rather than a NCAA CFP. If they break away, the SEC and B1G can dispense with the G5 access and had a 4-2 with 2 at-large. Maybe that is the end result.

Well with 16 schools, the G5 start to get 2nd teams in. With 14, it would be rare. Notre Dame and the G5 disproportionately benefit from going to 14 to 16.

I think what all this discussion shows is that more than 1 AQ per conference is just a ridiculous idea. Look at all the gyrations and permutations people are discussing. Look at how the brackets get turned upside down. KISS!!!! A 5/9 (not factoring the differing schedules) would have resulted in the SEC and Big averaging 4, the ACC and Big 12 averaging 2, the G5 1 with the extra one split between Notre Dame and the SEC.

Yeah don't think I agree with 16 getting 2 G5 in often at all. I mean going into final weekend last year Tulane and Liberty were 22 and 24.

Well scheduling would be different. And a lot of times it was due to Washington St., Oregon St. or Boise St. during their really good years. And WSU/OSU and Boise might not be as good in the future. But it would have happened 7 times in the BCS/CFP era and the P4 would want it to be zero. There was never a case of two current G5 schools in the top 14:
2022 Oregon St. 14, Tulane 16
2012 Oregon St. 13, Northern Illinois 15
2010 Boise St. 10, Nevada 15
2003 Miami 11, Washington St. 16
2002 Washington St. 6, Boise St. 16
2001 Marshall 12, Southern Miss 16
1998 Tulane 10, Air Force 16

I will add that prior to 2004, the BCS only went to 15 teams. Those #16 teams are based on the poll rankings and prior to 2014 it was based on the BCS formula, not a committee.

I posted the 2009 final rankings before the bowl games since Big East was not really been considered a real P5 back then nor they were a G5.

#3 Cincinnati, #4 TCU, #6 Boise State #14 BYU

That was the only time that happened with 4 very good teams outside of the power 5 egos.

(03-05-2024 12:02 PM)Eichorst Wrote:  So with the 2nd AQ for Big XII and ACC and the diminishing value of the CCG, would the Big XII and ACC be fighting for a guaranteed home game? Is that how they'd keep that CCG interesting?

And for the B1G and SEC, AQ1 gets a bye, AQ2 gets a home game, and AQ3 is just a regular guaranteed bid without a home game?

They get closer to pro forma equality if the CCG winnner gets a guarantee and that's all ... the P2 CCG winner gets a bye, the M2 CCG winner gets a guaranteed home game.

Now the P2 #2 is likely to get a home game, and the M2 CCG loser is unlikely to, but it seems like limiting the departures from pure seeding to top conference CCG winners would sit easier with the SEC.

Jon Wilner: The ACC & Big 12 Should Accept the Potential Playoff Format Immediately

Link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XV7NPJiSSoY

(03-05-2024 11:41 PM)GTFletch Wrote:  Jon Wilner: The ACC & Big 12 Should Accept the Potential Playoff Format Immediately

Link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XV7NPJiSSoY

As if anyone should pay attention to Wilner given his total whiffs the last couple years!