https://x.com/zach_barnett/status/176334...E0_xipAVQw

Probably for the best. Ohio has way too many small liberal arts schools.

Well that's what they get for joining a conference!

Notre Dame and Urbana both jumped over from NAIA to D2 about a decade ago and now both are out-of-business. I have to wonder if athletic spending hastened their demise.

(02-29-2024 06:50 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Notre Dame and Urbana both jumped over from NAIA to D2 about a decade ago and now both are out-of-business. I have to wonder if athletic spending hastened their demise.

Could be. Maybe Faulkner should stay in NAIA.

And let the floodgates open!

Maybe by the end of it all, real Notre Dame will be shutting down.

(02-29-2024 06:50 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Notre Dame and Urbana both jumped over from NAIA to D2 about a decade ago and now both are out-of-business. I have to wonder if athletic spending hastened their demise.

They took a risk by trying to increase their stature via an association with the NCAA, hoping they could attract students. They tried to spend money to make money. It didn't work.

There goes another one of David Street's hopes.

Notre Dame College sponsored 24 sports. That's one way to try to keep the doors open.

Also, they were an all-women's college until 2001. They couldn't have had a large endowment.

They were very good in D2 football for several years. Of course, their coaches kept getting hired away because of that. Hate to hear this.

Somehow Lake Erie and Tiffin are open.

(02-29-2024 08:01 PM)johnintx Wrote:  Notre Dame College sponsored 24 sports. That's one way to try to keep the doors open.

Also, they were an all-women's college until 2001. They couldn't have had a large endowment.

I see what you did there.

(02-29-2024 06:50 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Notre Dame and Urbana both jumped over from NAIA to D2 about a decade ago and now both are out-of-business. I have to wonder if athletic spending hastened their demise.

I think sports can be the harbinger, but more because a school adding sports hand over fist likely isn't doing too well. Schools that are sponsoring a ton of sports are doing so to attract students, and it's probably not a super sustainable strategy.

(02-29-2024 06:56 PM)C2__ Wrote:  And let the floodgates open!

Maybe by the end of it all, real Notre Dame will be shutting down.

No way, Navy would just cruise in and save them again.

(02-29-2024 10:48 PM)Pastasevensamurai Wrote:  Somehow Lake Erie and Tiffin are open.

Tiffin has gone bigly into the online degree arena so they'll be around.

(02-29-2024 10:48 PM)Pastasevensamurai Wrote:  Somehow Lake Erie and Tiffin are open.

I kinda feel like some of these schools are trying to hold on as long as they can, hoping that others close first.

I saw 9 schools would accept Notre Dame students (including Lake Erie, though not Tiffin).

Like maybe Lake Erie is thinking they can get ~50 additional students from ND's closing, that will sure up their enrollment a bit. Plus, ND closing means there's one fewer option in the area, so maybe next year ~15 students who would've gone to ND go to Lake Erie College, and Lake Erie's long term enrollment strategy looks a shade better.

However, there's probably 10 other colleges thinking the same thing, and ND only has so many students to go around. But, if nearby Malone University closes their doors next, the process repeats, and now there's only 9 other colleges to compete with.

With a declining demographic of kids entering college, an interesting dynamic will be whether the better schools will lower their admission standards to keep about the same student population (and tuition $$) vs. reducing body count to maintain max quality, which would help some of the lesser schools stay afloat.

(02-29-2024 10:59 PM)Eagle Talon Wrote:  

(02-29-2024 08:01 PM)johnintx Wrote:  Notre Dame College sponsored 24 sports. That's one way to try to keep the doors open.

Also, they were an all-women's college until 2001. They couldn't have had a large endowment.

I see what you did there.

I wasn't trying to intentionally do anything. :-)

I was just mentioning my observation that has happened with other schools: it is harder for a small school with a history as either a junior college or a women's college to build a large endowment. It takes decades to build relationships with donors, and for alumni to build high-paying careers to in turn give large amounts back to the school.

If the school was an all-women's college before 2001, their graduates were probably going into low-paying careers such as education and nursing. Therefore, they didn't have big-money alumni plowing huge sums into their endowment. Tough times have come, and they didn't have the financial firewall to survive. They're not the first, and they won't be the last.

They used sports to try to keep enrollment up and stay afloat. It worked for a while, but only for a while.

(03-02-2024 11:39 AM)Ohio Poly Wrote:  With a declining demographic of kids entering college, an interesting dynamic will be whether the better schools will lower their admission standards to keep about the same student population (and tuition $$) vs. reducing body count to maintain max quality, which would help some of the lesser schools stay afloat.

At the state schools at least admission standards allow for flux in freshman class.

Demographics are 1 factor but also cost. Online programs are eating into demand for the lower tier colleges. Private colleges don't have the built in benefit of state distribution for higher education.

At the lower tier public level a lot of those students would be just as happy to complete two years at a community college and transfer in. They aren't great students to begin with an usually with little aspirations so a community college might be a better option.

Where I live you can become a police officer with a two year degree at a starting salary of 64,000. That is more than most jobs with a 4 year degree pay. Even if you wanted to go to law school and become a defense lawyer you could start at a community college majoring in criminal justice and then transfer into a 4 year.

You've got to be the kind of 4 year college that attracts kids from families in the upper 10% to keep the demand up IMO.

(02-29-2024 10:48 PM)Pastasevensamurai Wrote:  Somehow Lake Erie and Tiffin are open.

I fully expect Lake Erie to be the next small Ohio college to close.