The money granted by the state of North Carolina for the ACC move to Charlotte is dependent on the league claiming 'four charter members that are institutions of higher learning in the state.' An interesting find by Bill Farley:

https://twitter.com/BillFarleyPhD/status...0926821508

NC voters, I’m sorry your government wasted $15 million of your tax dollars.

(03-03-2024 09:10 AM)Gitanole Wrote:  The money granted by the state of North Carolina for the ACC move to Charlotte is dependent on the league claiming 'four charter members' in the state. An interesting find by Bill Farley:

https://twitter.com/BillFarleyPhD/status...0926821508

Farley apparently doesn't understand what "charter member" means. He asks who would the ACC recruit to replace UNC if they were to leave. There are no other charter ACC members in North Carolina. So, the question is, if UNC were to leave, would they be liable for repayment of the entire $15 million funded by the state?

(03-03-2024 09:19 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  NC voters, I’m sorry your government wasted $15 million of your tax dollars.

There were some powerful forces that wanted the ACC HQ in Charlotte. If the State wanted to same $15 Million it would have left the HQ in Greensboro.

FSU may leave, but it's doubtful that the conference will suffer the same fate as the Pac 12.

(03-03-2024 09:48 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(03-03-2024 09:19 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  NC voters, I’m sorry your government wasted $15 million of your tax dollars.

There were some powerful forces that wanted the ACC HQ in Charlotte. If the State wanted to same $15 Million it would have left the HQ in Greensboro.

FSU may leave, but it's doubtful that the conference will suffer the same fate as the Pac 12.

If FSU left alone, I would agree. But I think if FSU leaves, then UNC for sure leaves as well, and Clemson and maybe Miami too.

And if that happens, it's in to the same boat with the 2PAC. Whatever is left will be a G-league.

We'll see, maybe.

(03-03-2024 10:23 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(03-03-2024 09:48 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(03-03-2024 09:19 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  NC voters, I’m sorry your government wasted $15 million of your tax dollars.

There were some powerful forces that wanted the ACC HQ in Charlotte. If the State wanted to same $15 Million it would have left the HQ in Greensboro.

FSU may leave, but it's doubtful that the conference will suffer the same fate as the Pac 12.

If FSU left alone, I would agree. But I think if FSU leaves, then UNC for sure leaves as well, and Clemson and maybe Miami too.

And if that happens, it's in to the same boat with the 2PAC. Whatever is left will be a G-league.

We'll see, maybe.

The the only way that Carolina leaves the ACC for either the SEC or the B1G is if the Heels can take 5 or 6 schools with them.

So if UNC leaves, that's another $15 million the ACC can claim in damages. Basically the state of North Carolina would be reimbursing itself.

The only way non-public monies are involved is if Duke or Wake Forest leave at the same time.

(03-03-2024 09:21 AM)ken d Wrote:  ....
There are no other charter ACC members in North Carolina. So, the question is, if UNC were to leave, would they be liable for repayment of the entire $15 million funded by the state?

At first glance it seems the state has grounds to reverse its investment. The ACC would refund the $15M but presumably keep its Charlotte office. The conference would surely try to recover that amount by adding it to the exit bill of the first departing in-state school.

$15M amounts to spare change on the nightstand for a school getting a P2 call-up. Still, it's an interesting discovery.

When was this deal signed? I’m curious how long ago the ACC truly felt like it wouldn’t lose any of its core members.

I feel like the ACC has been in turmoil since 2012-14 when FSU started being vocal about not feeling the arrangement anymore.

FSU is leaving, but only after paying an enormous buy back of their media rights and an exit fee. Once they leave the other schools simply say, "wow I'm not paying that", and the conference holds at 17. ACC money ends up looking pretty good when CFP, NCAAT, tier 2/3 reverts back to ESPN, ACCN growth continues and the college football landscape changes significantly in the next few years. Things aren't nearly as dire as they appear to the cousins and nephews waiting to divide up the inheritance. In fact the old man is cancer free and the ticker is running at a steady 68bpm.

(03-03-2024 09:21 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(03-03-2024 09:10 AM)Gitanole Wrote:  The money granted by the state of North Carolina for the ACC move to Charlotte is dependent on the league claiming 'four charter members' in the state. An interesting find by Bill Farley:

https://twitter.com/BillFarleyPhD/status...0926821508

Farley apparently doesn't understand what "charter member" means. He asks who would the ACC recruit to replace UNC if they were to leave. There are no other charter ACC members in North Carolina. So, the question is, if UNC were to leave, would they be liable for repayment of the entire $15 million funded by the state?

Section 11.8.b says "....must require the entity to repay a proportioate amount of the grant, based on the metric least fulfilled in the agreement..."

So that sounds like the ACC adds an extra....$15M divided by 4....$3.75M on to the exit fee for any North Carolina school leaving the conference.

(03-03-2024 11:10 AM)dawgitall Wrote:  FSU is leaving, but only after paying an enormous buy back of their media rights and an exit fee. Once they leave the other schools simply say, "wow I'm not paying that", and the conference holds at 17. ACC money ends up looking pretty good when CFP, NCAAT, tier 2/3 reverts back to ESPN, ACCN growth continues and the college football landscape changes significantly in the next few years. Things aren't nearly as dire as they appear to the cousins and nephews waiting to divide up the inheritance. In fact the old man is cancer free and the ticker is running at a steady 68bpm.

Just around the corner
There's a rainbow in the sky
So let's have another cup of coffee
And let's have another piece of pie!

Trouble's just a bubble
And the clouds will soon roll by
So let's have another cup of coffee
And let's have another piece of pie!

Let a smile be your umbrella
For it's just an April shower
Even John D. Rockefeller
Is looking for the silver lining:

Mister Herbert Hoover
Says that now's the time to buy!
So let's have another cup of coffee
And let's have another piece of pie!

https://youtu.be/4Z6Js_PR1D0?feature=shared&t=48

UNCCH isn't going anywhere. So many seem to think that the Board of Governors approval requirement is all about NCSU. It actually is at least as much if not more about the economy of the State of North Carolina. The BOG are made up of economic/political behind the scenes movers and shakers. Each of them has a vested interest in economic wellbeing and growth of the state. Each of them are beholding to the North Carolina General Assembly who appoint them. The 4 North Carolina based schools are important economic engines for the state with 3 major hospital systems, agricultural investment, major research, industrial development, etc. etc. In addition the ACC headquartered in the state creates major economic infusions with more than half the ACC events taking place here. That's tourist dollars, taxes paid, etc. Should UNCCH leave the ACC the conference would be weakened significantly and in fact at risk complete failure. The domino effect is fairly obvious with even a few minutes of reflection. So the BOG isn't going to be looking so much at keeping NCSU whole, but rather keeping the economy of the State of North Carolina whole. Therefore I believe that there is no financial plan that UNCCH can present to the BOG that they will approve. The ripples that will move outward from a UNCCH departure to the SEC or B10 are just too great and too negative for it to be allowed. The incentives that the state awarded to the ACC for keeping their HQ in the state are just chicken feed compared to the benefits the taxpayers receive having a strong healthy ACC centered in our state.

(03-03-2024 11:39 AM)Gitanole Wrote:  

(03-03-2024 11:10 AM)dawgitall Wrote:  FSU is leaving, but only after paying an enormous buy back of their media rights and an exit fee. Once they leave the other schools simply say, "wow I'm not paying that", and the conference holds at 17. ACC money ends up looking pretty good when CFP, NCAAT, tier 2/3 reverts back to ESPN, ACCN growth continues and the college football landscape changes significantly in the next few years. Things aren't nearly as dire as they appear to the cousins and nephews waiting to divide up the inheritance. In fact the old man is cancer free and the ticker is running at a steady 68bpm.

Just around the corner
There's a rainbow in the sky
So let's have another cup of coffee
And let's have another piece of pie!

Trouble's just a bubble
And the clouds will soon roll by
So let's have another cup of coffee
And let's have another piece of pie!

Let a smile be your umbrella
For it's just an April shower
Even John D. Rockefeller
Is looking for the silver lining:

Mister Herbert Hoover
Says that now's the time to buy!
So let's have another cup of coffee
And let's have another piece of pie!

https://youtu.be/4Z6Js_PR1D0?feature=shared&t=48

I take it you disagree.

(03-03-2024 10:53 AM)TerpsvilleMayor Wrote:  When was this deal signed? I’m curious how long ago the ACC truly felt like it wouldn’t lose any of its core members.

I feel like the ACC has been in turmoil since 2012-14 when FSU started being vocal about not feeling the arrangement anymore.

The ACC has generally been a very cordial league. Florida State officials only became 'vocal' in recent years when it became obvious that the revenue gap with (what is now known as) the P2 was reaching untenable proportions.

The document in question is recent. The deal was made only after Jim Phillips became ACC commissioner. You can find threads on it. He wanted to move the ACC headquarters out of Greensboro. Charlotte was one of three cities being considered. A search went on for about a year. The state of North Carolina kicked in $15M to help facilitate the move and keep the league office in the state. As the document shows, part of the understanding—and justification for NC taxpayers—was that this conference was affiliated with four in-state universities.

It's likely assuming too much to take this as evidence that 'the ACC truly felt like it wouldn’t lose any of its core members.' We can take it as evidence of what North Carolina state officials wanted to see. Jim Phillips knew when he took the job that unless that revenue gap closed, he was in for rough seas. His first play was to push ND to go all-in. By that point it was the ACC's last potentially game-changing option. When ND declined, every AD had to know that the ACC's fate was sealed. It was headed for mid-level status. Member schools could either make themselves content with that level or start making other plans. Last summer we learned that at least seven schools started making other plans.

(03-03-2024 10:30 AM)XLance Wrote:  The the only way that Carolina leaves the ACC for either the SEC or the B1G is if the Heels can take 5 or 6 schools with them.

I always find it funny, seeing what we've seen occur in realignment, that there are still those willing to make such absolute statements.

(03-03-2024 12:01 PM)djsuperfly Wrote:  

(03-03-2024 10:30 AM)XLance Wrote:  The the only way that Carolina leaves the ACC for either the SEC or the B1G is if the Heels can take 5 or 6 schools with them.

I always find it funny, seeing what we've seen occur in realignment, that there are still those willing to make such absolute statements.

Well said

(03-03-2024 11:43 AM)dawgitall Wrote:  UNCCH isn't going anywhere. So many seem to think that the Board of Governors approval requirement is all about NCSU. It actually is at least as much if not more about the economy of the State of North Carolina. The BOG are made up of economic/political behind the scenes movers and shakers. Each of them has a vested interest in economic wellbeing and growth of the state. Each of them are beholding to the North Carolina General Assembly who appoint them. The 4 North Carolina based schools are important economic engines for the state with 3 major hospital systems, agricultural investment, major research, industrial development, etc. etc. In addition the ACC headquartered in the state creates major economic infusions with more than half the ACC events taking place here. That's tourist dollars, taxes paid, etc. Should UNCCH leave the ACC the conference would be weakened significantly and in fact at risk complete failure. The domino effect is fairly obvious with even a few minutes of reflection. So the BOG isn't going to be looking so much at keeping NCSU whole, but rather keeping the economy of the State of North Carolina whole. Therefore I believe that there is no financial plan that UNCCH can present to the BOG that they will approve. The ripples that will move outward from a UNCCH departure to the SEC or B10 are just too great and too negative for it to be allowed. The incentives that the state awarded to the ACC for keeping their HQ in the state are just chicken feed compared to the benefits the taxpayers receive having a strong healthy ACC centered in our state.

^^^^^^^

Ding, ding, ding........winner, winner chicken dinner!

If it comes down to it the General Assembly would just give the Carolina athletic department $40 Million a year to stay put.

(03-03-2024 11:43 AM)dawgitall Wrote:  UNCCH isn't going anywhere. So many seem to think that the Board of Governors approval requirement is all about NCSU. It actually is at least as much if not more about the economy of the State of North Carolina. The BOG are made up of economic/political behind the scenes movers and shakers. Each of them has a vested interest in economic wellbeing and growth of the state. Each of them are beholding to the North Carolina General Assembly who appoint them. The 4 North Carolina based schools are important economic engines for the state with 3 major hospital systems, agricultural investment, major research, industrial development, etc. etc. In addition the ACC headquartered in the state creates major economic infusions with more than half the ACC events taking place here. That's tourist dollars, taxes paid, etc. Should UNCCH leave the ACC the conference would be weakened significantly and in fact at risk complete failure. The domino effect is fairly obvious with even a few minutes of reflection. So the BOG isn't going to be looking so much at keeping NCSU whole, but rather keeping the economy of the State of North Carolina whole. Therefore I believe that there is no financial plan that UNCCH can present to the BOG that they will approve. The ripples that will move outward from a UNCCH departure to the SEC or B10 are just too great and too negative for it to be allowed. The incentives that the state awarded to the ACC for keeping their HQ in the state are just chicken feed compared to the benefits the taxpayers receive having a strong healthy ACC centered in our state.

Plausible, but not the whole story. No one reading this would ever know that UNC trustees have already made it plain on more than one occasion that their university intends to keep its conference options open (see 'NC barking' thread). That's in the picture, too.

There's a rumour on the board that UNC trustees are people of some influence in their state. Care to contradict?

We're entering a P2 college sports world. The top level is taking shape right now. The state of North Carolina can be represented in that top level or not—and when you think about it, that's pretty much all its state officials get to decide. They do not control the essential structure of this new world. They do not decide which conferences stay 'strong and healthy' (what does that mean in revenue gap terms, exactly?). The reality is that most of the dominoes involved aren't much affected by what North Carolina does. They will decide what works best for them.

The ACC won't be healthy when Florida State and Clemson leave because you won't have anyone that is nationally relevant in football. As a fan of a basketball school I would like basketball to be important but it doesn't matter financially. The ACC will be the Big East.