Would the better option for the MAC be to:

A: Bring in a geographic and mutally interested team in Western Kentucky?

or

B: Steal the C-USA's recent addition in Delaware to reinforce Buffalo and the recently added UMass?

Get UConn... Exempt them from all exit fees unless it's an ACC/Big 12 move (a minimal one at that), and just give them a partial share. No BBall commitments.

(03-04-2024 09:12 AM)RUScarlets Wrote:  Get UConn... Exempt them from all exit fees unless it's an ACC/Big 12 move (a minimal one at that), and just give them a partial share. No BBall commitments.

Absolutely not.

The best option is steal Delaware. I'd be happy with WKU.

(03-04-2024 08:57 AM)andybible1995 Wrote:  Would the better option for the MAC be to:

A: Bring in a geographic and mutally interested team in Western Kentucky?

or

B: Steal the C-USA's recent addition in Delaware to reinforce Buffalo and the recently added UMass?

Here's the thing these discussions are glossing over: the MAC doesn't really want WKU. If they did, they could have already done the UMass/WKU adds. The MAC was willing to bring WKU along because they really wanted MTSU. Grabbing the Blue Raiders biggest rival was just the cost.

Plus, I doubt WKU is as mutually interested anymore. Why pay exit fees for lateral moves?

(03-04-2024 09:25 AM)zibby Wrote:  

(03-04-2024 09:12 AM)RUScarlets Wrote:  Get UConn... Exempt them from all exit fees unless it's an ACC/Big 12 move (a minimal one at that), and just give them a partial share. No BBall commitments.

Absolutely not.

The best option is steal Delaware. I'd be happy with WKU.

I'd say try for both and offer UCONN a 5 game scheduling agreement if you do get both to help with #MACTION scheduling for the MAC and UCONN schedule games late in the season, although looking at UCONN's future schedule, they look like they're doing fine, but the UMASS and Army games could be at risk.

(03-04-2024 09:25 AM)zibby Wrote:  

(03-04-2024 09:12 AM)RUScarlets Wrote:  Get UConn... Exempt them from all exit fees unless it's an ACC/Big 12 move (a minimal one at that), and just give them a partial share. No BBall commitments.

Absolutely not.

The best option is steal Delaware. I'd be happy with WKU.

Agreed. UConn doesn’t add much, if any value as a FB only member. Delaware brings a state flagship with a solid and generally well funded athletic department, nestled conveniently between Philly and Baltimore metros, that gives the MAC a foothold on the east coast, that happens to be close by to PA, MD, NJ, DC, and not too far from NY and VA. That comes in handy for both future media deals , but also helps open up recruiting for future athletes and potential out-of-state students in general.

WKU is probably the more “sensible” fit on the surface right now, but UDel could potentially help open more doors for the league down the line.

Personally, If I were MAC, I’d at least consider taking both if possible and potentially prying away MTSU as well to round out at 16.

(03-04-2024 09:29 AM)djsuperfly Wrote:  the MAC doesn't really want WKU. If they did, they could have already done the UMass/WKU adds

(03-04-2024 09:29 AM)djsuperfly Wrote:  Plus, I doubt WKU is as mutually interested anymore.

So which side has the upper hand here: The MAC or WKU?

(03-04-2024 09:45 AM)PeteTheChop Wrote:  

(03-04-2024 09:29 AM)djsuperfly Wrote:  the MAC doesn't really want WKU. If they did, they could have already done the UMass/WKU adds

(03-04-2024 09:29 AM)djsuperfly Wrote:  Plus, I doubt WKU is as mutually interested anymore.

So which side has the upper hand here: The MAC or WKU?

Neither?

The situation on the ground has changed and the mutual interest from both sides has likely evaporated.

WKU. They have traditionally been a pretty solid basketball school. The MAC could use that.

(03-04-2024 09:49 AM)djsuperfly Wrote:  The situation on the ground has changed and the mutual interest from both sides has likely evaporated.

So, you don't think the MAC is playing the rejected suitor card here: "We didn't want Western Kentucky anyway."

Those posts after the UMass leak last week indicating there was "mutual MAC-WKU interest" came from media in Toledo, which is probably about as good of a source as you'd find.

Unless it was a MAC-tion diversion tactic to swipe Delaware or wait for Illinois State to get its act together as far as making the jump to I-A

(03-04-2024 09:25 AM)zibby Wrote:  

(03-04-2024 09:12 AM)RUScarlets Wrote:  Get UConn... Exempt them from all exit fees unless it's an ACC/Big 12 move (a minimal one at that), and just give them a partial share. No BBall commitments.

Absolutely not.

The best option is steal Delaware. I'd be happy with WKU.

Either would be fine. But do favor WKU for it's basketball history, thou Delaware has a deeper sports portfolio, including soccer.

(03-04-2024 09:29 AM)djsuperfly Wrote:  

(03-04-2024 08:57 AM)andybible1995 Wrote:  Would the better option for the MAC be to:

A: Bring in a geographic and mutally interested team in Western Kentucky?

or

B: Steal the C-USA's recent addition in Delaware to reinforce Buffalo and the recently added UMass?

Here's the thing these discussions are glossing over: the MAC doesn't really want WKU. If they did, they could have already done the UMass/WKU adds. The MAC was willing to bring WKU along because they really wanted MTSU. Grabbing the Blue Raiders biggest rival was just the cost.

Plus, I doubt WKU is as mutually interested anymore. Why pay exit fees for lateral moves?

Bad logic, UMass probably did not get the green light to do an all sports move till the Army game, late October 2023.

(03-04-2024 10:25 AM)Steve1981 Wrote:  

(03-04-2024 09:29 AM)djsuperfly Wrote:  

(03-04-2024 08:57 AM)andybible1995 Wrote:  Would the better option for the MAC be to:

A: Bring in a geographic and mutally interested team in Western Kentucky?

or

B: Steal the C-USA's recent addition in Delaware to reinforce Buffalo and the recently added UMass?

Here's the thing these discussions are glossing over: the MAC doesn't really want WKU. If they did, they could have already done the UMass/WKU adds. The MAC was willing to bring WKU along because they really wanted MTSU. Grabbing the Blue Raiders biggest rival was just the cost.

Plus, I doubt WKU is as mutually interested anymore. Why pay exit fees for lateral moves?

Bad logic, UMass probably did not get the green light to do an all sports move till the Army game, late October 2023.

I think WKU is still an attractive add for the MAC. I don't buy the claim that the MAC was just interested in WKU to lure MTSU. They wanted them both, as one without the other isn't the same valuable addition that bringing in traditional rivals would be in a new, more southern, flank. It's like if adding WKU was worth 40 by itself, and MTSU was also worth 40 by itself - but together they're worth 100. A single team add is different, so they turned away the addition of WKU without MTSU - but I think they would have rescinded an MTSU accepted invite that didn't include WKU as well.

Now that UMass is coming - and the basketball improvement that brings, adding WKU makes more sense than a solo WKU would have brought. Suddenly, the MAC would have some BB cache.

I also don't think its a lateral move for WKU from C-USA to the MAC. C-USA is splattered over multiple time zones with little TV or fan interest, and any school with an option to leave could jump ship at any moment. A Liberty defection (now that they've done well in this level) isn't out of the question. Why not a Liberty - Delaware - WKU invite? Why not a Delaware - WKU - MTSU invite?

A lateral move is one where your situation is the same before and after the move - and it clearly is not. A move to the MAC - with UMass and WKU is worth more than C-USA is now (with WKU). A move to the MAC with UMass, WKU, Delaware and Liberty (or MTSU) is worth a ton more than C-USA is now.

Overall, I'm just not convinced there aren't a lot of viable options on the table for the MAC - and I think WKU is still an attractive partner that is looking to be courted.

Noting an earlier post on Western Kentucky board by TOPSTRAIGHT with an explanation of why MTSU last year received 10M while the others 5M. One reason, MTSU chose to receive the exit fees in a lump sum and the others over time. The other sounds a bit shady. Perhaps WKU could pay the exit fee and most of the GOR with their share of the other departed members exit fee share. If the difference was indeed a delay disbursement of the other teams exit fees.

(03-04-2024 02:14 PM)e-bethMSU Wrote:  

(03-04-2024 10:25 AM)Steve1981 Wrote:  

(03-04-2024 09:29 AM)djsuperfly Wrote:  

(03-04-2024 08:57 AM)andybible1995 Wrote:  Would the better option for the MAC be to:

A: Bring in a geographic and mutally interested team in Western Kentucky?

or

B: Steal the C-USA's recent addition in Delaware to reinforce Buffalo and the recently added UMass?

Here's the thing these discussions are glossing over: the MAC doesn't really want WKU. If they did, they could have already done the UMass/WKU adds. The MAC was willing to bring WKU along because they really wanted MTSU. Grabbing the Blue Raiders biggest rival was just the cost.

Plus, I doubt WKU is as mutually interested anymore. Why pay exit fees for lateral moves?

Bad logic, UMass probably did not get the green light to do an all sports move till the Army game, late October 2023.

I think WKU is still an attractive add for the MAC. I don't buy the claim that the MAC was just interested in WKU to lure MTSU. They wanted them both, as one without the other isn't the same valuable addition that bringing in traditional rivals would be in a new, more southern, flank. It's like if adding WKU was worth 40 by itself, and MTSU was also worth 40 by itself - but together they're worth 100. A single team add is different, so they turned away the addition of WKU without MTSU - but I think they would have rescinded an MTSU accepted invite that didn't include WKU as well.

Now that UMass is coming - and the basketball improvement that brings, adding WKU makes more sense than a solo WKU would have brought. Suddenly, the MAC would have some BB cache.

I also don't think its a lateral move for WKU from C-USA to the MAC. C-USA is splattered over multiple time zones with little TV or fan interest, and any school with an option to leave could jump ship at any moment. A Liberty defection (now that they've done well in this level) isn't out of the question. Why not a Liberty - Delaware - WKU invite? Why not a Delaware - WKU - MTSU invite?

A lateral move is one where your situation is the same before and after the move - and it clearly is not. A move to the MAC - with UMass and WKU is worth more than C-USA is now (with WKU). A move to the MAC with UMass, WKU, Delaware and Liberty (or MTSU) is worth a ton more than C-USA is now.

Overall, I'm just not convinced there aren't a lot of viable options on the table for the MAC - and I think WKU is still an attractive partner that is looking to be courted.

I think that's a slightly better way to describe what I was trying to say. MAC wanted the pair, yes, but MTSU was the more desired due to market. Otherwise, they could have brought on WKU and <insert other school here> at that time. But, they didn't. And now that the MAC has added UMass that would be that WKU and <insert other school here> add. But, we're not hearing any real scuttlebutt for a WKU invite.

And yes, it's lateral. $750,000 to CUSA schools; $850,000 to MAC schools. $3 million dollar exit fee for CUSA. Even if WKU negotiated that down to half, that'd be 15 years to break even--lateral.

It would be a huge academic flex if MAC could add UMass + Delaware. Both are state flagships, and both are R1 universities.

(03-04-2024 08:57 AM)andybible1995 Wrote:  Would the better option for the MAC be to:

A: Bring in a geographic and mutally interested team in Western Kentucky?

or

B: Steal the C-USA's recent addition in Delaware to reinforce Buffalo and the recently added UMass?

They aren't stealing Delaware. Delaware has bigger aspirations than the MAC which is why they joined CUSA. Both Liberty and Delaware have athletic budgets big enough for the AAC. I think neither is likely, but WKU is more likely of the two.

(03-04-2024 02:25 PM)Steve1981 Wrote:  Noting an earlier post on Western Kentucky board by TOPSTRAIGHT that he has removed indicated the following. MTSU last year received 10M while the other 5M. The reason, MTSU chose to receive the exit fees in a lump sum and the others over time. Seems that would be that WKU could pay the exit fee and most of the GOR with their share of the other departed members exit fee share. If the difference was indeed a delay disbursement of the other teams exit fees.

https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofi...00220/full

https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofi...03487/full

The last two CUSA distributions to MTSU have been 8 mil and 10 mil. WKU is the next closest at 5 mil and 6 mil. No one is sure why MTSU is getting almost a double share. Possible that they are getting an advance on future payouts to assist in projects they need capital for today, not sure.

either option is great as far as I'm concerned.

Delaware has a total of 6 NCAA appearances (no wins) and has never been to a bowl game. They would be an average BB team in the MAC and its a question mark how the FB would do. At 5,000 seat BB and 18,000 in FB they would have close to the smallest facilities in the MAC as well.

Potential MAC candidates by NCAA appearance totals:

WKU (23)
URI (10)
MT (9)
MSU (6)
ISU (6)
UD (6)
NDSU (4)
SBU (1)

WKU obviously is the biggest get for the MAC. They would rank #1 in NCAAT appearances if they were in the MAC.

NDSU even has better overall BB than UD and way better FB to offer the MAC.

URI is a good BB school and natural travel partner UMass.

MSU/ISU have good BB followings and would weaken the MVC.

UD/SBU are great schools but don't move the competitive needle at all IMO.