(03-16-2024 01:13 PM)Eagleonpar Wrote:  

(03-16-2024 12:55 PM)Boots Wrote:  Marshall would kill it at Memphis. So would Wade. Either would be the best coaches Memphis has had since Cal.

Interesting to look at Penny vs. Pastner eras…

Pastner: 7 years, 4 NCAA tournaments, 2 NCAA wins, 70% overall win percentage, 70% conference win percentage.

Penny: 6 Years, 2 NCAA Tournaments, 1 NCAA win, 68% overall win percentage, 65% conference win percentage.

Pastner > Penny per results.

Pastner - took over a squad off 4 straight sweet 16s 2 #1 seeds and 2 #2 seeds. And a long conference win streak. Pastner never won a AAC championship Won 2 ncaa games. Got destroyed the round both times

Penny - took over after 4 straight years of no ncaa. Won 1 ncaa game and was screwed out of one last year. Won an AAC championship beating the number 1 team in the country in the finals

Edit : Pastner didn’t beat a ranked team until his 5th year
Seriously think McFly think

his first year, a depleted team of mostly role players from the year before took #1 Kansas to the wire...lost by 2...which gave a lot of folks some hope for the future of him as a coach.
I'll admit to being one of the people who were all for giving him the time needed to figure it out.

As I posted

He is still getting paid

(03-17-2024 12:38 PM)Unionman76 Wrote:  As I posted

He is still getting paid

That ain’t workin
That’s the way you do it

(03-17-2024 11:53 AM)snowtiger Wrote:  

(03-17-2024 11:06 AM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(03-17-2024 10:40 AM)snowtiger Wrote:  

(03-17-2024 08:48 AM)Eagleonpar Wrote:  

(03-17-2024 05:49 AM)Atlanta Wrote:  All of these things are allegations, no charges (in the case of Marshall) & charges dropped in the case of Beard. Yet you detail these incidents as of they are proven. Frankly, if they happened as described & alleged, Marshall would be in jail with Beard. And BTW, have you looked at the AAC lately, it is no stronger than the CUSA was during our membership.

Snow is woke lol

lol They got rid of him without needing to prove anything. That’s the beauty of multiple allegations.

Ask yourselves the pertinent question before you go all pissy on yourselves
Why hasn’t he been hired.

……….
Beard. Hugh. pearl. Pitino. Kiffin
To name a few


Case closed.

Perhaps he made tens of millions of dollars coaching and simply decided he did not need to put up with the of college athletics anymore?

O brother . There are a lot of ‘perhapses’. But only one ‘who cares’.
So far, the results remain steadfast.

Allegations got rid of him. His players ratted him out, btw.
He’s never been hired anywhere else.

I have no dog in this fight.

In fact it’s Sunday — a nice sunny day here. Time for a time*, don’t ya think
*tune lol

Yes, there are lots of perhapses, exactly my point.

(03-17-2024 12:08 PM)EarthBoundMisfit Wrote:  

(03-16-2024 01:13 PM)Eagleonpar Wrote:  

(03-16-2024 12:55 PM)Boots Wrote:  Marshall would kill it at Memphis. So would Wade. Either would be the best coaches Memphis has had since Cal.

Interesting to look at Penny vs. Pastner eras…

Pastner: 7 years, 4 NCAA tournaments, 2 NCAA wins, 70% overall win percentage, 70% conference win percentage.

Penny: 6 Years, 2 NCAA Tournaments, 1 NCAA win, 68% overall win percentage, 65% conference win percentage.

Pastner > Penny per results.

Pastner - took over a squad off 4 straight sweet 16s 2 #1 seeds and 2 #2 seeds. And a long conference win streak. Pastner never won a AAC championship Won 2 ncaa games. Got destroyed the round both times

Penny - took over after 4 straight years of no ncaa. Won 1 ncaa game and was screwed out of one last year. Won an AAC championship beating the number 1 team in the country in the finals

Edit : Pastner didn’t beat a ranked team until his 5th year
Seriously think McFly think

his first year, a depleted team of mostly role players from the year before took #1 Kansas to the wire...lost by 2...which gave a lot of folks some hope for the future of him as a coach.
I'll admit to being one of the people who were all for giving him the time needed to figure it out.

That first team was NOT depleted smh

He finished 4th in the worst version of CUSA. Got beat first round of tournament. That team was loaded with good players who were part of a winning culture like Kemp, Mack , Niles and Witherspoon who had played minutes on great teams. Plus he had Elliot Williams come in. The culture was good enough to keep Joe, Tarik and Chris at home and bring in the Barton’s. Then it took him 3 years to win a tournament game with that group and 5 years to beat a top 25 team. Good grief you guys still love that clown. HE is the one that brought this program down more than even Tubby Smith and yet yall want Penny fired after missing the tournament this year? Good grief people

(03-17-2024 04:16 PM)snowtiger Wrote:  

(03-17-2024 12:38 PM)Unionman76 Wrote:  As I posted

He is still getting paid

That ain’t workin
That’s the way you do it

I want my MTV.

*sees what's on MTV*

nevermind

(03-18-2024 07:22 AM)Eagleonpar Wrote:  yet yall want Penny fired after missing the tournament this year? Good grief people

No people want to move on from Penny because he has weaknesses that set him up to underperform. Even worse those weaknesses are fixable, yet he refuses to fix them.

(03-18-2024 10:20 AM)Alanda Wrote:  

(03-18-2024 07:22 AM)Eagleonpar Wrote:  yet yall want Penny fired after missing the tournament this year? Good grief people

No people want to move on from Penny because he has weaknesses that set him up to underperform. Even worse those weaknesses are fixable, yet he refuses to fix them.

What perfect coach do you want to replace him? A guy that got on an fbi wire tap that’s never been to a sweet 16?

(03-18-2024 11:40 AM)Eagleonpar Wrote:  

(03-18-2024 10:20 AM)Alanda Wrote:  

(03-18-2024 07:22 AM)Eagleonpar Wrote:  yet yall want Penny fired after missing the tournament this year? Good grief people

No people want to move on from Penny because he has weaknesses that set him up to underperform. Even worse those weaknesses are fixable, yet he refuses to fix them.

What perfect coach do you want to replace him? A guy that got on an fbi wire tap that’s never been to a sweet 16?

Jumping to an extreme is never a good way to make a point. No one is looking for a "perfect" coach. People want a capable coach. Again if Penny can be screwed out of a win, then Wade built a sweet 16 team. You can't have it your way when it's convenient for your view then throw away the same line of thinking when it goes against your view.

And the FBI thing is probably the weakest counterpoint to hiring him or other head coaches that were involved. If it had been for something like gambling on games, then yeah pass on him and anyone else that did it. We're talking about something that's legal now. Others can make the strong-ass offers in his place.

And come to find out Wade is still so popular at LSU, I believe it was said during their conference tournament that some LSU fans donated to McNeese.

...is a good x and o coach, who would have extreme difficulty getting players.
Of course it would be funny to see The Chin Goodman burst a vein going all-in on hating Memphis - as he hates Marshall worse than Penny.

(03-18-2024 07:22 AM)Eagleonpar Wrote:  

(03-17-2024 12:08 PM)EarthBoundMisfit Wrote:  

(03-16-2024 01:13 PM)Eagleonpar Wrote:  

(03-16-2024 12:55 PM)Boots Wrote:  Marshall would kill it at Memphis. So would Wade. Either would be the best coaches Memphis has had since Cal.

Interesting to look at Penny vs. Pastner eras…

Pastner: 7 years, 4 NCAA tournaments, 2 NCAA wins, 70% overall win percentage, 70% conference win percentage.

Penny: 6 Years, 2 NCAA Tournaments, 1 NCAA win, 68% overall win percentage, 65% conference win percentage.

Pastner > Penny per results.

Pastner - took over a squad off 4 straight sweet 16s 2 #1 seeds and 2 #2 seeds. And a long conference win streak. Pastner never won a AAC championship Won 2 ncaa games. Got destroyed the round both times

Penny - took over after 4 straight years of no ncaa. Won 1 ncaa game and was screwed out of one last year. Won an AAC championship beating the number 1 team in the country in the finals

Edit : Pastner didn’t beat a ranked team until his 5th year
Seriously think McFly think

his first year, a depleted team of mostly role players from the year before took #1 Kansas to the wire...lost by 2...which gave a lot of folks some hope for the future of him as a coach.
I'll admit to being one of the people who were all for giving him the time needed to figure it out.

That first team was NOT depleted smh

He finished 4th in the worst version of CUSA. Got beat first round of tournament. That team was loaded with good players who were part of a winning culture like Kemp, Mack , Niles and Witherspoon who had played minutes on great teams. Plus he had Elliot Williams come in. The culture was good enough to keep Joe, Tarik and Chris at home and bring in the Barton’s. Then it took him 3 years to win a tournament game with that group and 5 years to beat a top 25 team. Good grief you guys still love that clown. HE is the one that brought this program down more than even Tubby Smith and yet yall want Penny fired after missing the tournament this year? Good grief people

the only weapon they had really was Elliott. Just because guys had played minutes on great teams, did not make them great players.
The other players weren't 'star caliber' players that Memphis had grown used to like CDR, Wagner, Evans etc..they were role players.
Kemp's confidence had been shattered playing for Calipari. His only year playing under Pastner as a starter is the only year he played well. (same for Deoneal Mack. Mack's 1 year under Pastner, he averaged 10 points a game) Spoon played under Calipari...did not play well until after Cal had left for Kentucky.

Now show me where I said we should fire Penny.
I'll wait....

(03-17-2024 10:40 AM)snowtiger Wrote:  

(03-17-2024 08:48 AM)Eagleonpar Wrote:  

(03-17-2024 05:49 AM)Atlanta Wrote:  

(03-17-2024 01:45 AM)snowtiger Wrote:  He’s way too big of a risk for anybody
Choking people , punching them, hurling racial insults

Beating up your fiancée is small potatoes comparatively speaking.



https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basket...estigation

The Athletic initially reported multiple allegations against Marshall from the 2015-16 season, including Marshall pushing and later punching former player Shaquille Morris; Marshall putting one of his hands around a staff member's neck; and Marshall following and trying to punch a student-athlete in another sport who parked in his parking spot.

Morris told Stadium that Marshall punched him during a practice. Following a foul, Morris said he went to help teammate Zach Brown up and was then struck with a punch by Marshall. The incident, according to Morris, came the same day he told Marshall that his mother had cancer.

Stadium also reported that the staff member whom Marshall attempted to choke was former assistant coach Kyle Lindsted, who is now at Minnesota. Lindsted declined to comment when reached by Medcalf following Stadium's report.

Other allegations reported by Stadium, which talked to more than 30 current and former members of the program, included Marshall body-shaming a player who is now dealing with anxiety and depression; Marshall making "Indian howling noises" and telling Isaiah Poor Bear-Chandler, who is of Native American descent, "to get back on his horse"; Marshall telling Colombian center Jaime Echenique he would be "a great coffee bean picker"; and Marshall telling Erik Stevenson that he was "afraid of brothers, guys raised by their grandparents eating PB&Js."

All of these things are allegations, no charges (in the case of Marshall) & charges dropped in the case of Beard. Yet you detail these incidents as of they are proven. Frankly, if they happened as described & alleged, Marshall would be in jail with Beard. And BTW, have you looked at the AAC lately, it is no stronger than the CUSA was during our membership.

Snow is woke lol

lol They got rid of him without needing to prove anything. That’s the beauty of multiple allegations.

Ask yourselves the pertinent question before you go all pissy on yourselves
Why hasn’t he been hired.

……….
Beard. Hugh. pearl. Pitino. Kiffin
To name a few


Case closed.

Marshall still gets paid by Wichita state for at least another year. Might be 2 I’m not sure. If he takes another HC job he doesn’t get that anymore.

(03-19-2024 10:17 PM)Fluke Wrote:  

(03-17-2024 10:40 AM)snowtiger Wrote:  

(03-17-2024 08:48 AM)Eagleonpar Wrote:  

(03-17-2024 05:49 AM)Atlanta Wrote:  

(03-17-2024 01:45 AM)snowtiger Wrote:  He’s way too big of a risk for anybody
Choking people , punching them, hurling racial insults

Beating up your fiancée is small potatoes comparatively speaking.



https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basket...estigation

The Athletic initially reported multiple allegations against Marshall from the 2015-16 season, including Marshall pushing and later punching former player Shaquille Morris; Marshall putting one of his hands around a staff member's neck; and Marshall following and trying to punch a student-athlete in another sport who parked in his parking spot.

Morris told Stadium that Marshall punched him during a practice. Following a foul, Morris said he went to help teammate Zach Brown up and was then struck with a punch by Marshall. The incident, according to Morris, came the same day he told Marshall that his mother had cancer.

Stadium also reported that the staff member whom Marshall attempted to choke was former assistant coach Kyle Lindsted, who is now at Minnesota. Lindsted declined to comment when reached by Medcalf following Stadium's report.

Other allegations reported by Stadium, which talked to more than 30 current and former members of the program, included Marshall body-shaming a player who is now dealing with anxiety and depression; Marshall making "Indian howling noises" and telling Isaiah Poor Bear-Chandler, who is of Native American descent, "to get back on his horse"; Marshall telling Colombian center Jaime Echenique he would be "a great coffee bean picker"; and Marshall telling Erik Stevenson that he was "afraid of brothers, guys raised by their grandparents eating PB&Js."

All of these things are allegations, no charges (in the case of Marshall) & charges dropped in the case of Beard. Yet you detail these incidents as of they are proven. Frankly, if they happened as described & alleged, Marshall would be in jail with Beard. And BTW, have you looked at the AAC lately, it is no stronger than the CUSA was during our membership.

Snow is woke lol

lol They got rid of him without needing to prove anything. That’s the beauty of multiple allegations.

Ask yourselves the pertinent question before you go all pissy on yourselves
Why hasn’t he been hired.

……….
Beard. Hugh. pearl. Pitino. Kiffin
To name a few


Case closed.

Marshall still gets paid by Wichita state for at least another year. Might be 2 I’m not sure. If he takes another HC job he doesn’t get that anymore.

Typically, they would owe him the difference if he took a job for less money. If WSU is paying him $2mil/year and he took a job for $1.5 then they would still have to pay him $500k.

Regardless, to the greater point, he is making 7 figures right now doing absolutely nothing, that is a pretty good gig and reason for not being interested in coaching at the moment.

(03-20-2024 06:59 AM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(03-19-2024 10:17 PM)Fluke Wrote:  

(03-17-2024 10:40 AM)snowtiger Wrote:  

(03-17-2024 08:48 AM)Eagleonpar Wrote:  

(03-17-2024 05:49 AM)Atlanta Wrote:  All of these things are allegations, no charges (in the case of Marshall) & charges dropped in the case of Beard. Yet you detail these incidents as of they are proven. Frankly, if they happened as described & alleged, Marshall would be in jail with Beard. And BTW, have you looked at the AAC lately, it is no stronger than the CUSA was during our membership.

Snow is woke lol

lol They got rid of him without needing to prove anything. That’s the beauty of multiple allegations.

Ask yourselves the pertinent question before you go all pissy on yourselves
Why hasn’t he been hired.

……….
Beard. Hugh. pearl. Pitino. Kiffin
To name a few


Case closed.

Marshall still gets paid by Wichita state for at least another year. Might be 2 I’m not sure. If he takes another HC job he doesn’t get that anymore.

Typically, they would owe him the difference if he took a job for less money. If WSU is paying him $2mil/year and he took a job for $1.5 then they would still have to pay him $500k.

Regardless, to the greater point, he is making 7 figures right now doing absolutely nothing, that is a pretty good gig and reason for not being interested in coaching at the moment.

It also likely demonstrates he was not removed for cause or they wouldn't be paying him at all.

(03-20-2024 07:22 AM)Atlanta Wrote:  

(03-20-2024 06:59 AM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(03-19-2024 10:17 PM)Fluke Wrote:  

(03-17-2024 10:40 AM)snowtiger Wrote:  

(03-17-2024 08:48 AM)Eagleonpar Wrote:  Snow is woke lol

lol They got rid of him without needing to prove anything. That’s the beauty of multiple allegations.

Ask yourselves the pertinent question before you go all pissy on yourselves
Why hasn’t he been hired.

……….
Beard. Hugh. pearl. Pitino. Kiffin
To name a few


Case closed.

Marshall still gets paid by Wichita state for at least another year. Might be 2 I’m not sure. If he takes another HC job he doesn’t get that anymore.

Typically, they would owe him the difference if he took a job for less money. If WSU is paying him $2mil/year and he took a job for $1.5 then they would still have to pay him $500k.

Regardless, to the greater point, he is making 7 figures right now doing absolutely nothing, that is a pretty good gig and reason for not being interested in coaching at the moment.

It also likely demonstrates he was not removed for cause or they wouldn't be paying him at all.

I'll repeat, if the likes of Hugh Freeze and Bruce Pearl can be given multiple 2nd chances...so can Greg Marshall. IF, he is interested in coaching again, some lucky school out there will get him and they will experience great success. Same with Will Wade.

If Penny has the best interest of the school in mind, he should be making a plan to help the school bring in one of these guys. Big If. It won't happen. And it's unfortunate. When Will Wade and Greg Marshall are both winning big at a high D1 someday, we can reference back to this moment in time.

The fact that Marshall is still getting paid, hopefully keeps him on the market for a couple more years.

(03-19-2024 09:54 PM)EarthBoundMisfit Wrote:  

(03-18-2024 07:22 AM)Eagleonpar Wrote:  

(03-17-2024 12:08 PM)EarthBoundMisfit Wrote:  

(03-16-2024 01:13 PM)Eagleonpar Wrote:  

(03-16-2024 12:55 PM)Boots Wrote:  Marshall would kill it at Memphis. So would Wade. Either would be the best coaches Memphis has had since Cal.

Interesting to look at Penny vs. Pastner eras…

Pastner: 7 years, 4 NCAA tournaments, 2 NCAA wins, 70% overall win percentage, 70% conference win percentage.

Penny: 6 Years, 2 NCAA Tournaments, 1 NCAA win, 68% overall win percentage, 65% conference win percentage.

Pastner > Penny per results.

Pastner - took over a squad off 4 straight sweet 16s 2 #1 seeds and 2 #2 seeds. And a long conference win streak. Pastner never won a AAC championship Won 2 ncaa games. Got destroyed the round both times

Penny - took over after 4 straight years of no ncaa. Won 1 ncaa game and was screwed out of one last year. Won an AAC championship beating the number 1 team in the country in the finals

Edit : Pastner didn’t beat a ranked team until his 5th year
Seriously think McFly think

his first year, a depleted team of mostly role players from the year before took #1 Kansas to the wire...lost by 2...which gave a lot of folks some hope for the future of him as a coach.
I'll admit to being one of the people who were all for giving him the time needed to figure it out.

That first team was NOT depleted smh

He finished 4th in the worst version of CUSA. Got beat first round of tournament. That team was loaded with good players who were part of a winning culture like Kemp, Mack , Niles and Witherspoon who had played minutes on great teams. Plus he had Elliot Williams come in. The culture was good enough to keep Joe, Tarik and Chris at home and bring in the Barton’s. Then it took him 3 years to win a tournament game with that group and 5 years to beat a top 25 team. Good grief you guys still love that clown. HE is the one that brought this program down more than even Tubby Smith and yet yall want Penny fired after missing the tournament this year? Good grief people

the only weapon they had really was Elliott. Just because guys had played minutes on great teams, did not make them great players.
The other players weren't 'star caliber' players that Memphis had grown used to like CDR, Wagner, Evans etc..they were role players.
Kemp's confidence had been shattered playing for Calipari. His only year playing under Pastner as a starter is the only year he played well. (same for Deoneal Mack. Mack's 1 year under Pastner, he averaged 10 points a game) Spoon played under Calipari...did not play well until after Cal had left for Kentucky.

Now show me where I said we should fire Penny.
I'll wait....

It's not really my fight, but I think it's just an urban legend that Pastner didn't have any talent his 1st year.

Elliott Williams, soph - McD AA; prior college starts for Duke as a frosh.
Witherspoon, soph - 4* recruit; some prior starts.
Doneal, senior - 4* recruit; avg 7 pts for the '08 team; started for the '09 team; one of the most prolific 3-pt shooters in program history.
Sallie, senior - Laurinburg prep grad.
Kemp, senior - 4* recruit; 6th man for '08 team; numerous prior starts.
Coleman, junior - highly sought juco.
PHN, senior - some starts on the '09 team.
DJ Stephens, fresh.
Angel Garcia, soph.
Drew Barham, fresh.

That's a solid 7-deep, with another 3 young decent bench guys. Should have been good enough to make the NCAA. Just lost all the big non-con games Cal had setup (a trend under Josh), and couldn't get past UTEP.

As for results, NCAA success is a good metric - but not the only metric. And it's so dependent on how "they" view whatever version of the conference we are in at the moment. Ultimately, it's still uneven with Josh having 7 postseasons and Penny only 5 postseason opportunities. Besides, who actually got us closest to the coveted Sweet 16? Certainly not Josh as we got embarrassed in his two 2nd round games.

Another metric is KenPom ratings. Josh averaged a rating of 55 over his 7 years. Penny has averaged KP of 44. This, even considering the entirely different states of the program when each took over.

And then there is the benchmark of actually beating good teams. Josh was 5-26 against the top 25. He just couldn't win big games. Penny is 12-18. That is pretty strong. For comparison, Cal's final 7 years (when things were rolling) were 21-27.

Penny has done some good things to bring us back. This year was a setback - give him a chance to recover from an off year.

(03-20-2024 09:50 AM)BIGDTiger Wrote:  I'll repeat, if the likes of Hugh Freeze and Bruce Pearl can be given multiple 2nd chances...so can Greg Marshall. IF, he is interested in coaching again, some lucky school out there will get him and they will experience great success. Same with Will Wade.

If Penny has the best interest of the school in mind, he should be making a plan to help the school bring in one of these guys. Big If. It won't happen. And it's unfortunate. When Will Wade and Greg Marshall are both winning big at a high D1 someday, we can reference back to this moment in time.

The fact that Marshall is still getting paid, hopefully keeps him on the market for a couple more years.

Pearl and Wade played outside of NCAA rules. These days, big whoop.
Freeze had his thing with escorts. I don't want him, but it is something you can easily come back from. Ask Pitino.
Marshall beat up staffers and players. You do see the difference don't you?

Of course, Beard didn't even have to sitout a full year before an amoral athletic dept grabbed him. So Marshall will likely end up somewhere soon. Now it remains to be seen if he will be able to recruit after all the stories. We will see. But I just don't want the baggage with our next coach (that is, in 5 years or so).

(03-20-2024 07:22 AM)Atlanta Wrote:  

(03-20-2024 06:59 AM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(03-19-2024 10:17 PM)Fluke Wrote:  

(03-17-2024 10:40 AM)snowtiger Wrote:  

(03-17-2024 08:48 AM)Eagleonpar Wrote:  Snow is woke lol

lol They got rid of him without needing to prove anything. That’s the beauty of multiple allegations.

Ask yourselves the pertinent question before you go all pissy on yourselves
Why hasn’t he been hired.

……….
Beard. Hugh. pearl. Pitino. Kiffin
To name a few


Case closed.

Marshall still gets paid by Wichita state for at least another year. Might be 2 I’m not sure. If he takes another HC job he doesn’t get that anymore.

Typically, they would owe him the difference if he took a job for less money. If WSU is paying him $2mil/year and he took a job for $1.5 then they would still have to pay him $500k.

Regardless, to the greater point, he is making 7 figures right now doing absolutely nothing, that is a pretty good gig and reason for not being interested in coaching at the moment.

It also likely demonstrates he was not removed for cause or they wouldn't be paying him at all.

they came to a settlement. He's not getting full value.

(03-20-2024 10:08 AM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(03-19-2024 09:54 PM)EarthBoundMisfit Wrote:  

(03-18-2024 07:22 AM)Eagleonpar Wrote:  

(03-17-2024 12:08 PM)EarthBoundMisfit Wrote:  

(03-16-2024 01:13 PM)Eagleonpar Wrote:  Pastner - took over a squad off 4 straight sweet 16s 2 #1 seeds and 2 #2 seeds. And a long conference win streak. Pastner never won a AAC championship Won 2 ncaa games. Got destroyed the round both times

Penny - took over after 4 straight years of no ncaa. Won 1 ncaa game and was screwed out of one last year. Won an AAC championship beating the number 1 team in the country in the finals

Edit : Pastner didn’t beat a ranked team until his 5th year
Seriously think McFly think

his first year, a depleted team of mostly role players from the year before took #1 Kansas to the wire...lost by 2...which gave a lot of folks some hope for the future of him as a coach.
I'll admit to being one of the people who were all for giving him the time needed to figure it out.

That first team was NOT depleted smh

He finished 4th in the worst version of CUSA. Got beat first round of tournament. That team was loaded with good players who were part of a winning culture like Kemp, Mack , Niles and Witherspoon who had played minutes on great teams. Plus he had Elliot Williams come in. The culture was good enough to keep Joe, Tarik and Chris at home and bring in the Barton’s. Then it took him 3 years to win a tournament game with that group and 5 years to beat a top 25 team. Good grief you guys still love that clown. HE is the one that brought this program down more than even Tubby Smith and yet yall want Penny fired after missing the tournament this year? Good grief people

the only weapon they had really was Elliott. Just because guys had played minutes on great teams, did not make them great players.
The other players weren't 'star caliber' players that Memphis had grown used to like CDR, Wagner, Evans etc..they were role players.
Kemp's confidence had been shattered playing for Calipari. His only year playing under Pastner as a starter is the only year he played well. (same for Deoneal Mack. Mack's 1 year under Pastner, he averaged 10 points a game) Spoon played under Calipari...did not play well until after Cal had left for Kentucky.

Now show me where I said we should fire Penny.
I'll wait....

It's not really my fight, but I think it's just an urban legend that Pastner didn't have any talent his 1st year.

Elliott Williams, soph - McD AA; prior college starts for Duke as a frosh.
Witherspoon, soph - 4* recruit; some prior starts.
Doneal, senior - 4* recruit; avg 7 pts for the '08 team; started for the '09 team; one of the most prolific 3-pt shooters in program history.
Sallie, senior - Laurinburg prep grad.
Kemp, senior - 4* recruit; 6th man for '08 team; numerous prior starts.
Coleman, junior - highly sought juco.
PHN, senior - some starts on the '09 team.
DJ Stephens, fresh.
Angel Garcia, soph.
Drew Barham, fresh.

That's a solid 7-deep, with another 3 young decent bench guys. Should have been good enough to make the NCAA. Just lost all the big non-con games Cal had setup (a trend under Josh), and couldn't get past UTEP.

As for results, NCAA success is a good metric - but not the only metric. And it's so dependent on how "they" view whatever version of the conference we are in at the moment. Ultimately, it's still uneven with Josh having 7 postseasons and Penny only 5 postseason opportunities. Besides, who actually got us closest to the coveted Sweet 16? Certainly not Josh as we got embarrassed in his two 2nd round games.

Another metric is KenPom ratings. Josh averaged a rating of 55 over his 7 years. Penny has averaged KP of 44. This, even considering the entirely different states of the program when each took over.

And then there is the benchmark of actually beating good teams. Josh was 5-26 against the top 25. He just couldn't win big games. Penny is 12-18. That is pretty strong. For comparison, Cal's final 7 years (when things were rolling) were 21-27.

Penny has done some good things to bring us back. This year was a setback - give him a chance to recover from an off year.

Early on, Pastner's teams improved on their previous year's successes.
First year NIT, second year CUSA tourney title, 3rd year regular season and tournament champion, fourth year...regular season title and conference tourney title, won first round game against St Marys...and that's where the progress stopped. We never won more than a first round game under Coach Pastner.
The problem was..Pastner could get the talent here...he just didn't know how to mold them to become better. His 3 success stories are Joe Jackson, DJ Stephens, and Jeremiah Martin.