I didn’t want to derail the UTRGV thread but I’m still struggling to see how the schools who jumped to the WAC and ASUN and then ultimately ended up in the hodgepodge UAC FCS football conference rationalized their moves.

Sam Houston St, Jacksonville St, and Kennesaw St just needed to wait and be patient. Changing league affiliations didn’t do anything to improve their stock as potential FBS upgrades.

If everyone involved in ASUN football pumps the breaks:

Jacksonville St (OVC) gets a C-USA invite for 2023
Kennesaw St (ASUN) gets a C-USA invite for 2024
Belmont and Murray St still leave for the MVC
Down to 7/10, the OVC adds the lone ASUN school w/ FCS, UNA. (Maybe Lindenwood and USI too, or they could consider UCA)

Over in the SLC:
Sam Houston St gets their C-USA invite and they backfill with Tarleton St.

Southern Utah is the biggest head scratcher. Why leave the stable Big Sky for the WAC. Its not like they couldn’t play Utah Valley and Utah Tech OOC.

Southern Utah, Tarleton St, ACU, SFA, UNA, UCA, EKU, and Austin Peay could all still be in stable regional conferences right now instead of in limbo.

The only schools to really benefit from this whole endeavor have been Utah Tech and all of the non-fb schools in the WAC and ASUN who’d be on the verge of not having enough members had all this shuffling not taken place.

(03-21-2024 03:19 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I didn’t want to derail the UTRGV thread but I’m still struggling to see how the schools who jumped to the WAC and ASUN and then ultimately ended up in the hodgepodge UAC FCS football conference rationalized their moves.

Sam Houston St, Jacksonville St, and Kennesaw St just needed to wait and be patient. Changing league affiliations didn’t do anything to improve their stock as potential FBS upgrades.

If everyone involved in ASUN football pumps the breaks:

Jacksonville St (OVC) gets a C-USA invite for 2023
Kennesaw St (ASUN) gets a C-USA invite for 2024
Belmont and Murray St still leave for the MVC
Down to 7/10, the OVC adds the lone ASUN school w/ FCS, UNA. (Maybe Lindenwood and USI too, or they could consider UCA)

Over in the SLC:
Sam Houston St gets their C-USA invite and they backfill with Tarleton St.

Southern Utah is the biggest head scratcher. Why leave the stable Big Sky for the WAC. Its not like they couldn’t play Utah Valley and Utah Tech OOC.

Southern Utah, Tarleton St, ACU, SFA, UNA, UCA, EKU, and Austin Peay could all still be in stable regional conferences right now instead of in limbo.

The only schools to really benefit from this whole endeavor have been Utah Tech and all of the non-fb schools in the WAC and ASUN who’d be on the verge of not having enough members had all this shuffling not taken place.

Frankly, I never understood why all those Texas Southland schools thought a WAC move would be a good idea.

(03-21-2024 03:19 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I didn’t want to derail the UTRGV thread but I’m still struggling to see how the schools who jumped to the WAC and ASUN and then ultimately ended up in the hodgepodge UAC FCS football conference rationalized their moves.

Sam Houston St, Jacksonville St, and Kennesaw St just needed to wait and be patient. Changing league affiliations didn’t do anything to improve their stock as potential FBS upgrades.

If everyone involved in ASUN football pumps the breaks:

Jacksonville St (OVC) gets a C-USA invite for 2023
Kennesaw St (ASUN) gets a C-USA invite for 2024
Belmont and Murray St still leave for the MVC
Down to 7/10, the OVC adds the lone ASUN school w/ FCS, UNA. (Maybe Lindenwood and USI too, or they could consider UCA)

Over in the SLC:
Sam Houston St gets their C-USA invite and they backfill with Tarleton St.

Southern Utah is the biggest head scratcher. Why leave the stable Big Sky for the WAC. Its not like they couldn’t play Utah Valley and Utah Tech OOC.

Southern Utah, Tarleton St, ACU, SFA, UNA, UCA, EKU, and Austin Peay could all still be in stable regional conferences right now instead of in limbo.

The only schools to really benefit from this whole endeavor have been Utah Tech and all of the non-fb schools in the WAC and ASUN who’d be on the verge of not having enough members had all this shuffling not taken place.

From what I've heard, the Big Sky didn't want Southern Utah anymore, and gladly let them go.

EKU could still end up in the C-USA if WKU leaves for the MAC. Austin Peay could still go back to the OVC, along with UCA and UNA. Tarleton State could end up in the FBS as well. ACU and SFA could end up back in the SLC as well.

Honestly I am sure there is more at play than we realize and losing UTRGV doesn't really hurt the WAC as a whole or the UAC. Now when West Georgia joins they will have 10 members. I'd schedule it where SUU/UTU/ACU/TSU/SFA each play every season and UCA/UNA/AP/EKU/UWG each play and then play 4 of the other 5. They might already do that but I don't really know.

In fact I would argue that this move overall is best for the SLC, UTRGV, and the WAC/UAC.

(03-21-2024 03:19 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I didn’t want to derail the UTRGV thread but I’m still struggling to see how the schools who jumped to the WAC and ASUN and then ultimately ended up in the hodgepodge UAC FCS football conference rationalized their moves.

Sam Houston St, Jacksonville St, and Kennesaw St just needed to wait and be patient. Changing league affiliations didn’t do anything to improve their stock as potential FBS upgrades.

If everyone involved in ASUN football pumps the breaks:

Jacksonville St (OVC) gets a C-USA invite for 2023
Kennesaw St (ASUN) gets a C-USA invite for 2024
Belmont and Murray St still leave for the MVC
Down to 7/10, the OVC adds the lone ASUN school w/ FCS, UNA. (Maybe Lindenwood and USI too, or they could consider UCA)

Over in the SLC:
Sam Houston St gets their C-USA invite and they backfill with Tarleton St.

Southern Utah is the biggest head scratcher. Why leave the stable Big Sky for the WAC. Its not like they couldn’t play Utah Valley and Utah Tech OOC.

Southern Utah, Tarleton St, ACU, SFA, UNA, UCA, EKU, and Austin Peay could all still be in stable regional conferences right now instead of in limbo.

The only schools to really benefit from this whole endeavor have been Utah Tech and all of the non-fb schools in the WAC and ASUN who’d be on the verge of not having enough members had all this shuffling not taken place.

I disagree. That’s how it appears from the outside looking in. You may not realize how impactful the OU/UT move to the SEC was. Had the P5 remained how they were previously, Sam Houston and NMSU would still be in the WAC today.

Aside from McNeese St, none of the other SLC schools have ambition and are just along for the ride. The WAC schools have some ambition. The SLC and their leadership deserve major props for rebuilding the league, but that is also because Lamar, UIW, and UTRGV realized they aren’t able to compete with Grand Canyon, Cal Baptist and others. Saving on travel, is just a way to save face to some boosters.

UTA, ACU, SFA, and Tarleton St see themselves in higher regard than Lamar, UIW, UTRGV, and Commerce do. Look at their facilities or planned upgrades. Look at UIW’s basketball facility. They knew they would be finishing at the bottom of the WAC every year, like they already do in the SLC.

That is why those schools moved, things didn’t go to plan, and some are choosing to remain at the bottom because they don’t want to spend the money to compete.

(03-21-2024 03:40 PM)Troy_Fan_15 Wrote:  Honestly I am sure there is more at play than we realize and losing UTRGV doesn't really hurt the WAC as a whole or the UAC. Now when West Georgia joins they will have 10 members. I'd schedule it where SUU/UTU/ACU/TSU/SFA each play every season and UCA/UNA/AP/EKU/UWG each play and then play 4 of the other 5. They might already do that but I don't really know.

Football will be fine without UTRGV, they will likely be awful anyway. Losing Lamar, UIW, and UTRGV only hurts the WAC perception wise.

Or the moves loosened the institutional inertia to remain in place, allowing a move up.

We have seen other schools in the past make quick moves to reach their destination. Bulter bounced twice relatively quickly to reach the Big East. Liberty preceded these school and would up in CUSA with them. Sometimes the first move does lead to a second but a bit delayed.

Part of what happens is a school making what turns out to be an intermediate move is that they have developed their resume and pitch. The first move was how they reassessed their value and their desired path. This isn't much different from regular people. How many of us jumped jobs to then discover what we really wanted after that move, and in the process of that first jump we developed our pitch and confidence? Same thing occurred here. Without that first move, there is a good chance they never make the move to their ultimate destination.

(03-21-2024 03:27 PM)andybible1995 Wrote:  

(03-21-2024 03:19 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I didn’t want to derail the UTRGV thread but I’m still struggling to see how the schools who jumped to the WAC and ASUN and then ultimately ended up in the hodgepodge UAC FCS football conference rationalized their moves.

Sam Houston St, Jacksonville St, and Kennesaw St just needed to wait and be patient. Changing league affiliations didn’t do anything to improve their stock as potential FBS upgrades.

If everyone involved in ASUN football pumps the breaks:

Jacksonville St (OVC) gets a C-USA invite for 2023
Kennesaw St (ASUN) gets a C-USA invite for 2024
Belmont and Murray St still leave for the MVC
Down to 7/10, the OVC adds the lone ASUN school w/ FCS, UNA. (Maybe Lindenwood and USI too, or they could consider UCA)

Over in the SLC:
Sam Houston St gets their C-USA invite and they backfill with Tarleton St.

Southern Utah is the biggest head scratcher. Why leave the stable Big Sky for the WAC. Its not like they couldn’t play Utah Valley and Utah Tech OOC.

Southern Utah, Tarleton St, ACU, SFA, UNA, UCA, EKU, and Austin Peay could all still be in stable regional conferences right now instead of in limbo.

The only schools to really benefit from this whole endeavor have been Utah Tech and all of the non-fb schools in the WAC and ASUN who’d be on the verge of not having enough members had all this shuffling not taken place.

From what I've heard, the Big Sky didn't want Southern Utah anymore, and gladly let them go.

EKU could still end up in the C-USA if WKU leaves for the MAC. Austin Peay could still go back to the OVC, along with UCA and UNA. Tarleton State could end up in the FBS as well. ACU and SFA could end up back in the SLC as well.

There are reasons EKU and APSU left the OVC to include the fact the OVC did not vote in UNA. The de-emphasis of football was another. Austin Pay didn't like when the conference did not got to bat for them to get an NCAA at-large bid but would move heaven and earth to take care of Murray and Belmont.

EKU deciding to go rouge in football in the COVID year sealed our departure. Since we moved football attendance is up. You may not like UAC football, but so far it has been good for us.

At the end of the day, moves that were made dealt more with conference politics and what schools other schools wanted to be associated with as opposed to geography.

(03-21-2024 03:26 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(03-21-2024 03:19 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I didn’t want to derail the UTRGV thread but I’m still struggling to see how the schools who jumped to the WAC and ASUN and then ultimately ended up in the hodgepodge UAC FCS football conference rationalized their moves.

Sam Houston St, Jacksonville St, and Kennesaw St just needed to wait and be patient. Changing league affiliations didn’t do anything to improve their stock as potential FBS upgrades.

If everyone involved in ASUN football pumps the breaks:

Jacksonville St (OVC) gets a C-USA invite for 2023
Kennesaw St (ASUN) gets a C-USA invite for 2024
Belmont and Murray St still leave for the MVC
Down to 7/10, the OVC adds the lone ASUN school w/ FCS, UNA. (Maybe Lindenwood and USI too, or they could consider UCA)

Over in the SLC:
Sam Houston St gets their C-USA invite and they backfill with Tarleton St.

Southern Utah is the biggest head scratcher. Why leave the stable Big Sky for the WAC. Its not like they couldn’t play Utah Valley and Utah Tech OOC.

Southern Utah, Tarleton St, ACU, SFA, UNA, UCA, EKU, and Austin Peay could all still be in stable regional conferences right now instead of in limbo.

The only schools to really benefit from this whole endeavor have been Utah Tech and all of the non-fb schools in the WAC and ASUN who’d be on the verge of not having enough members had all this shuffling not taken place.

Frankly, I never understood why all those Texas Southland schools thought a WAC move would be a good idea.

It was a diaaater from day 1. Everything about it was stupid. I think the Texas schools planned on trying to get rid of the western members and just having their own little Texas conference they could run without the Lousisiana schools.

Whatever the plan was, it was far fetched and fell apart from day one. The moment Lamar left and UIW bolted, the game was over. Now it’s tail between their legs and retreat mode mode for the rest of the misfits.

Anyone moving from the OVC improved.

Anyone who thinks that UNA would want to move from the ASUN to the OVC don't pay attention. Part of the reason the others left the OVC was because of some underhanded politics in the OVC that kept UNA and Northern Kentucky out.

The Texas and OU deal cursed the ASUN on the football side because of the chain of events that happened. The UAC is a good partnership that is no different than the MVFC or CAA. On that note, if I was Charleston Southern and Gardner Webb I would be looking for a different partnership rather than the OVC for football before they get screwed.

(03-21-2024 03:27 PM)andybible1995 Wrote:  

(03-21-2024 03:19 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I didn’t want to derail the UTRGV thread but I’m still struggling to see how the schools who jumped to the WAC and ASUN and then ultimately ended up in the hodgepodge UAC FCS football conference rationalized their moves.

Sam Houston St, Jacksonville St, and Kennesaw St just needed to wait and be patient. Changing league affiliations didn’t do anything to improve their stock as potential FBS upgrades.

If everyone involved in ASUN football pumps the breaks:

Jacksonville St (OVC) gets a C-USA invite for 2023
Kennesaw St (ASUN) gets a C-USA invite for 2024
Belmont and Murray St still leave for the MVC
Down to 7/10, the OVC adds the lone ASUN school w/ FCS, UNA. (Maybe Lindenwood and USI too, or they could consider UCA)

Over in the SLC:
Sam Houston St gets their C-USA invite and they backfill with Tarleton St.

Southern Utah is the biggest head scratcher. Why leave the stable Big Sky for the WAC. Its not like they couldn’t play Utah Valley and Utah Tech OOC.

Southern Utah, Tarleton St, ACU, SFA, UNA, UCA, EKU, and Austin Peay could all still be in stable regional conferences right now instead of in limbo.

The only schools to really benefit from this whole endeavor have been Utah Tech and all of the non-fb schools in the WAC and ASUN who’d be on the verge of not having enough members had all this shuffling not taken place.

From what I've heard, the Big Sky didn't want Southern Utah anymore, and gladly let them go.

EKU could still end up in the C-USA if WKU leaves for the MAC. Austin Peay could still go back to the OVC, along with UCA and UNA. Tarleton State could end up in the FBS as well. ACU and SFA could end up back in the SLC as well.

I think a lot of the related moves were unexpected, so they ended up with fewer teams than they expected.

(03-21-2024 04:42 PM)Todor Wrote:  

(03-21-2024 03:26 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(03-21-2024 03:19 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I didn’t want to derail the UTRGV thread but I’m still struggling to see how the schools who jumped to the WAC and ASUN and then ultimately ended up in the hodgepodge UAC FCS football conference rationalized their moves.

Sam Houston St, Jacksonville St, and Kennesaw St just needed to wait and be patient. Changing league affiliations didn’t do anything to improve their stock as potential FBS upgrades.

If everyone involved in ASUN football pumps the breaks:

Jacksonville St (OVC) gets a C-USA invite for 2023
Kennesaw St (ASUN) gets a C-USA invite for 2024
Belmont and Murray St still leave for the MVC
Down to 7/10, the OVC adds the lone ASUN school w/ FCS, UNA. (Maybe Lindenwood and USI too, or they could consider UCA)

Over in the SLC:
Sam Houston St gets their C-USA invite and they backfill with Tarleton St.

Southern Utah is the biggest head scratcher. Why leave the stable Big Sky for the WAC. Its not like they couldn’t play Utah Valley and Utah Tech OOC.

Southern Utah, Tarleton St, ACU, SFA, UNA, UCA, EKU, and Austin Peay could all still be in stable regional conferences right now instead of in limbo.

The only schools to really benefit from this whole endeavor have been Utah Tech and all of the non-fb schools in the WAC and ASUN who’d be on the verge of not having enough members had all this shuffling not taken place.

Frankly, I never understood why all those Texas Southland schools thought a WAC move would be a good idea.

It was a diaaater from day 1. Everything about it was stupid. I think planned on getting rid of the western members and just having their own little Texas conference they could run without the Lousisiana schools.

Whatever the plan was, it was far fetched and fell apart from day one. The moment Lamar left and UIW bolted, the game was over. Now it’s tail between their legs and retreat mode mode for the rest of the misfits.

Well Seattle and Cal Baptist didn't seem to be fits. Without them, then you have a quad in Southern Utah/Arizona and a batch in Texas. It looks a lot like the old Border Conference of the 40s before the Arizona schools went to the WAC.

Agreed that the FB teams moving to the ASUN and WAC in 2021-22 made very bad, short-sighted decisions. Mostly knee-jerk moves made out of anger toward their conferences, who dared balk at playing FB due to a pandemic.

The ASUN and WAC have benefited significantly from the moves, more than one might think. Consider that in the 2020-21 season, the ASUN and WAC both had only 9 basketball members each. And on top of that, the ASUN had the bare minimum of 7 full D1 members (basketball requires 7 instead of 6), while the WAC was below the minimum at just 6 full D1 members.

ASUN 20-21 (NFB)
Full D1 (7): FGCU, Jacksonville, Kennesaw State, Liberty, Lipscomb, North Florida, Stetson
Transitioning to D1 (2): Bellarmine [24], North Alabama [22]

WAC 20-21 (NFB)
Full D1 (6): Chicago State, Grand Canyon, New Mexico State, Seattle, Utah Valley, UTRGV
Transitioning to D1 (3): Cal Baptist [22], Dixie State [24], Tarleton State [24]

Given the higher-level realignment that would have taken place regardless, both conferences were bound to lose teams. The Southland could have gotten by just fine losing only Sam Houston, leaving them with 10 FB and 12 BB members. The OVC would actually have been in a position to pull replacements from the ASUN, further endangering the latter's existence. And the Big South would have been able to maintain their football wing, albeit just barely and as a collection of misfits.

I see this as a plausible alignment for the 2025-26 season in a timeline where the moves in 2021 of schools from the OVC and Southland to the ASUN and WAC do not take place:

ASUN 25-26 (NFB)
Full D1 (6): Bellarmine, FGCU, Jacksonville, Lipscomb, North Florida, Stetson
Transitioning to D1 (4): Lindenwood [26], Queens [26], Southern Indiana [26], West Georgia [28]

Big South 25-26 (FCS)
Full D1 (9 BB, 7 FB)
BB (7): High Point, Longwood, Presbyterian, Radford, UNC Asheville, USC Upstate, Winthrop
BB+FB (2): Charleston Southern, Gardner-Webb
FB (5): Merrimack* (MAAC), Sacred Heart* (MAAC), Tarleton State* (WAC), Utah Tech* (WAC), UTRGV* (WAC)
Transitioning to D1 (0 BB, 3 FB)
FB (3): Lindenwood* (ASUN) [26], TAMU Commerce* (WAC) [26], West Georgia* (ASUN) [28]

OVC 25-26 (FCS)
Full D1 (12 BB, 9 FB)
BB (3): Little Rock, Morehead State, SIU Edwardsville
BB+FB (9): Austin Peay, Eastern Illinois, Eastern Kentucky, North Alabama, Southeast Missouri, Tennessee State, Tennessee Tech, Tennessee-Martin, Western Illinois

Southland 25-26 (FCS)
Full D1 (12 BB, 10 FB)
BB (2): New Orleans, TAMU Corpus Christi
BB+FB (10): Abilene Christian, Central Arkansas, Houston Christian, Incarnate Word, Lamar, McNeese State, Nicholls State, Northwestern State, SE Louisiana, Stephen F. Austin

WAC 25-26 (NFB)
Full D1 (9): Cal Baptist, Chicago State, Grand Canyon, Seattle, Tarleton State, Texas-Arlington, Utah Tech, Utah Valley, UTRGV
Transitioning to D1 (1): TAMU Commerce [26]

The ASUN would have needed an NCAA waiver to survive, as they'd be at 6 full D1 basketball members for at least 3 straight seasons (only 2 is allowed). I say "at least" because I can easily see other conferences picking up Lindenwood (Summit), Queens (Big South), and Southern Indiana (Horizon) once they finish their transitions to D1. (I can see this occurring in our timeline too.)

The WAC does a bit better for itself, mainly because nobody else wants their members except for NMSU. Southern Utah stays with the Big Sky. UTRGV sticks with the WAC because the Southland is not as depleted here. Chicago State doesn't get booted from the WAC (yet). The NEC (which looks like our timeline except for Chicago State) ends up in a similar boat as the ASUN, both below 7 full D1 basketball members, which IMO bolsters both their cases for NCAA waivers.

Also, it's not captured here, but Kennesaw State joins the OVC in 2022 before moving to CUSA in 2024.

Thoughts?

If the WAC dissolves at some point or becomes untenable for the Utah schools (because it backfills with D-2 crap out of their footprint), my guess is that the Big Sky or Big West will let all of them in as a package (Utah Tech, Southern Utah, Utah Valley).

Conferences are going to keep getting bigger, with the power conferences leading the way and the mid-majors following suit.

(03-21-2024 06:33 PM)WAChsenburggemeinde Wrote:  If the WAC dissolves at some point or becomes untenable for the Utah schools (because it backfills with D-2 crap out of their footprint), my guess is that the Big Sky or Big West will let all of them in as a package (Utah Tech, Southern Utah, Utah Valley).

Conferences are going to keep getting bigger, with the power conferences leading the way and the mid-majors following suit.

Nope, the Big Sky was happy to shed SUU. Left them with 10 BB and 12 FB members, and I think they're fine with that. I seem to recall reading/hearing that the senior members of the conference believed they had overexpanded and wanted to play each other more. So it seems unlikely they'll want to expand now, especially with NFB members like Utah Valley.

But SUU's move to the WAC is particularly a headscratcher. I don't think we've quite figured that out here.

Also, the Big West, no. They're not adding any of those Utah schools.

(03-21-2024 06:11 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  Agreed that the FB teams moving to the ASUN and WAC in 2021-22 made very bad, short-sighted decisions. Mostly knee-jerk moves made out of anger toward their conferences, who dared balk at playing FB due to a pandemic.

However, the ASUN and WAC have benefited significantly from the moves, more than you might think. Consider that in the 2020-21 season, the ASUN and WAC both had only 9 basketball members each. And on top of that, the ASUN had the bare minimum of 7 full D1 members (basketball requires 7 instead of just 6), while the WAC was below the minimum at just 6 full D1 members.

ASUN 20-21 (NFB)
Full D1 (7): FGCU, Jacksonville, Kennesaw State, Liberty, Lipscomb, North Florida, Stetson
Transitioning to D1 (2): Bellarmine [24], North Alabama [22]

WAC 20-21 (NFB)
Full D1 (6): Chicago State, Grand Canyon, New Mexico State, Seattle, Utah Valley, UTRGV
Transitioning to D1 (3): Cal Baptist [22], Dixie State [24], Tarleton State [24]

Given the higher-level realignment that would have taken place regardless, both conference were bound to lose teams. The Southland could have gotten by just fine losing only Sam Houston, leaving them with 10 FB and 12 BB members. The OVC would actually have been in a position to pull replacements from the ASUN, further endangering the latter's existence. And the Big South would have been able maintain their football wing, albeit just barely and as a conference of misfits.

I see this as a plausible alignment for the 2025-26 season in a timeline where the knee-jerk moves in 2021 of schools from the OVC and Southland to the ASUN and WAC do not take place:

ASUN 25-26 (NFB)
Full D1 (6): Bellarmine, FGCU, Jacksonville, Lipscomb, North Florida, Stetson
Transitioning to D1 (4): Lindenwood [26], Queens [26], Southern Indiana [26], West Georgia [28]

Big South 25-26 (FCS)
Full D1 (9 BB, 7 FB)
BB (7): High Point, Longwood, Presbyterian, Radford, UNC Asheville, USC Upstate, Winthrop
BB+FB (2): Charleston Southern, Gardner-Webb
FB (5): Merrimack* (MAAC), Sacred Heart* (MAAC), Tarleton State* (WAC), Utah Tech* (WAC), UTRGV* (WAC)
Transitioning to D1 (0 BB, 3 FB)
FB (3): Lindenwood* (ASUN) [26], TAMU Commerce* (WAC) [26], West Georgia* (ASUN) [28]

OVC 25-26 (FCS)
Full D1 (12 BB, 9 FB)
BB (3): Little Rock, Morehead State, SIU Edwardsville
BB+FB (9): Austin Peay, Eastern Illinois, Eastern Kentucky, North Alabama, Southeast Missouri, Tennessee State, Tennessee Tech, Tennessee-Martin, Western Illinois

Southland 25-26 (FCS)
Full D1 (12 BB, 10 FB)
BB (2): New Orleans, TAMU Corpus Christi
BB+FB (10): Abilene Christian, Central Arkansas, Houston Christian, Incarnate Word, Lamar, McNeese State, Nicholls State, Northwestern State, SE Louisiana, Stephen F. Austin

WAC 25-26 (NFB)
Full D1 (9): Cal Baptist, Chicago State, Grand Canyon, Seattle, Tarleton State, Texas-Arlington, Utah Tech, Utah Valley, UTRGV
Transitioning to D1 (1): TAMU Commerce [26]

The ASUN would have needed an NCAA waiver to survive, as they'd be at 6 full D1 basketball members for at least 3 straight seasons (only 2 is allowed). I say "at least" because I can easily see other conferences picking up Lindenwood (Summit), Queens (Big South), and Southern Indiana (Horizon) once they finish their transitions to D1.

The WAC does a bit better for itself, mainly because nobody else wants their members except for NMSU.

Southern Utah stays with the Big Sky. UTRGV sticks with the WAC because the Southland is not as depleted here. Chicago State doesn't get booted from the WAC (yet).

The NEC (which looks like our timeline except for Chicago State) ends up in a similar boat as the ASUN, both below 7 full D1 basketball members, which IMO bolsters both their cases for NCAA waivers.

Also, it's not captured here, but Kennesaw State joins the OVC in 2022 before moving to CUSA in 2024.

Thoughts?

This seems plausable. It's a little weird seeing Lindenwood and Southern Indiana in the ASUN, but you have to put them somewhere.

I feel like I’m reading a lot of Eastern perspectives and opinions on conferences from people who don’t understand the West.

What is true and accepted in a densely populated part of the country isn’t necessarily true at all where most universities aren’t with a few hours drive of lots of other schools.

Some people are inventing issues where none exist and applying a cookie cutter standard that doesn’t apply.

The Texas 4 were the biggest misfits ever, with UTA just a tiny step behind. They were clueless and have been left unhappy because the they prioritized a bunch of fantasies over reality. They suspended disbelief until they were smacked in face by the face with it. And now they are creating more havoc and chaos unnecessarily.

(03-21-2024 07:10 PM)andybible1995 Wrote:  This seems plausable. It's a little weird seeing Lindenwood and Southern Indiana in the ASUN, but you have to put them somewhere.

Consider that Bellarmine (Louisville) and Lipscomb (Nashville) were already ASUN members, so Lindenwood (St. Louis) and USI (Evansville) aren't much of a stretch.

(03-21-2024 07:44 PM)andybible1995 Wrote:  

(03-21-2024 07:32 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(03-21-2024 07:10 PM)andybible1995 Wrote:  This seems plausable. It's a little weird seeing Lindenwood and Southern Indiana in the ASUN, but you have to put them somewhere.

Consider that Bellarmine (Louisville) and Lipscomb (Nashville) were already ASUN members, so Lindenwood (St. Louis) and USI (Evansville) aren't much of a stretch.

True. My wife lives near Evansville in Owensboro, KY. She works in Evansville on occasion.

My point being is that this is way better than what thr FCS looks like now. I can also see Lindenwood, Queens, and Southern Indiana leaving for other conferences in this scenario.