(03-25-2024 01:45 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(03-25-2024 01:37 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  

(03-25-2024 01:32 PM)stever20 Wrote:  Saint Louis is something else. You feel like they should be so much better than they actually are.

The investment is there. The market is there. The facilities are there. For various reasons, the history is not.

sure wish Majerus hadn't died when he did. I think the program is totally different and in the Big East today.

Agree 100%.

This board, myself included, has spoken ad nauseam about UConn's placement in the American - it's geographic fit, as well as the lack of its historical connection to other teams in the conference. SLU in the A10 is very similar. Before Loyola getting added, the closest team to SLU was Dayton, 360 miles away. Previous Midwest A10 teams (Butler, Xavier) were poached by the Big East. SLU, historically, has often been affiliated with DePaul and Marquette, but once we left C-USA in 2005, they (and Charlotte, then a non-football school) left for the A10.

I think it's hard for any program to be individually on an island within a conference. It's harder to compete, recruit and create fan interest with "rival" games (because there are none or few).

Gonzaga to the Big East makes basketball sense, but that's been the case for years. Maybe Fox or someone else will incentivize them to actually make the move on Gonzaga for their next TV deal. Or maybe Fox/a possible new media partner will tell them to add Dayton and the conference will do it despite protest from Xavier.


Otherwise the Big East should stay as is and wait for the inevitable shakeup of the conference landscape that will follow the Big Ten and SEC raids on the ACC. The Big East could end up losing UConn but it's also possible that the conference ends up in a position to try to land schools like Duke, Notre Dame, and Syracuse. It doesn't need to add extra schools in preparation as a defensive move because UConn is the only school they would be in danger of losing and they can go back to 10 schools if they wanted.

The Big East could be welcoming back some old schools if and when the ACC falls apart so they'd be stupid to go beyond 12 right now.

I think the Big East should hold steady and not expand. If the ACC blows up in the next decade or so, they are in position to add at least a few quality left-behind programs such as Syracuse, Boston College, and Wake Forest. Notre Dame could also join the Big East if the ACC folds.

That's a heck of a lot better than adding a program like Dayton or SLU. Even adding Gonzaga and St. Mary's on an island isn't exactly ideal.

The Big East should be focused on maximizing a new TV deal and only that. P2 realignment isn't over yet, and there is no reason to expand until the dust has settled.

(03-25-2024 01:26 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  In theory, adding just one team - thereby moving to 12 teams and eliminating the round robin - statistically not only improves the odds of getting another bid into the NCAAT, but should also slightly elevate the top bids' seed(s) as well.

I've been telling you -- both the "royal you" and maybe the specific you on multiple websites (Holy Land?) -- for over a decade now that going with 10 teams (11 now) with the DRR has cost the Big East NCAA bids.

Taking an elitist approach that everyone has to be an NCAA program, and no one can be less than Xavier or Gonzaga to get in, that has cost you millions of dollars and possily has put the league at risk of being next on the chopping block by the P4.

Back then I said to take Dayton, Duquesne and St. Bona for 13 teams and grow Duquesne and Bona into Big East programs, but beat them for a decade and send more teams to the dance because the Big East "has no bottom."

The Big East has 2 bottom teams at the moment. Everyone went 4-0 vs them.
Three at the top (your bubble teams played 6 games vs them), and then 10 games between the bubble group 4-9 in the league.

Someone like Texas Tech or BYU played one less game vs Top 3 in their conference, THREE MORE against teams 10+ in the conference, and THREE LESS vs each other. So they got like (checks math) a billion teams in.

(03-25-2024 01:18 PM)b2b Wrote:  I doubt there's any truth to this twitter rumor but my personal dream for the Big East is to add Davidson. That would get them into the Charlotte market and plant a Big East flag close to me.

Davidson has the same problem as St. Bonaventure in this regard: their enrollment is too small for the Big East to even consider them. To put it in perspective, the school with the smallest enrollment in the Big East (Providence) has roughly double the enrollment of either St. Bonaventure or Davidson. And of course, smaller enrollment translates into fewer living alumni, so even if Davidson or St. Bonaventure were willing and able to double its enrollment overnight, it would still take at least 20-30 years to catch Providence in number of alumni

(03-25-2024 02:00 PM)UCbball21 Wrote:  I think the Big East should hold steady and not expand. If the ACC blows up in the next decade or so, they are in position to add at least a few quality left-behind programs such as Syracuse, Boston College, and Wake Forest. Notre Dame could also join the Big East if the ACC folds.

That's a heck of a lot better than adding a program like Dayton or SLU. Even adding Gonzaga and St. Mary's on an island isn't exactly ideal.

The Big East should be focused on maximizing a new TV deal and only that. P2 realignment isn't over yet, and there is no reason to expand until the dust has settled.

^^ This

(03-25-2024 01:45 PM)cubucks Wrote:  

(03-25-2024 01:31 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(03-25-2024 12:55 PM)BraveKnight Wrote:  That guy has like 300 followers. I doubt he’s breaking a story this massive. Nothing to see here.

311 followers now, we just made this guy's year.

312, he's got it rolling today thanks to csnbbs.

This has got to be a tough time to be an "Independent NFL/MLB/NCAA reporter and statistician" ... but if he keeps this pace up, he might hit 350 followers before the dust dies down.

They're looking for a massive expansion of the dollars in their contract. If that involves getting more schools they will.

(03-25-2024 02:23 PM)tf8693 Wrote:  

(03-25-2024 01:18 PM)b2b Wrote:  I doubt there's any truth to this twitter rumor but my personal dream for the Big East is to add Davidson. That would get them into the Charlotte market and plant a Big East flag close to me.

Davidson has the same problem as St. Bonaventure in this regard: their enrollment is too small for the Big East to even consider them. To put it in perspective, the school with the smallest enrollment in the Big East (Providence) has roughly double the enrollment of either St. Bonaventure or Davidson. And of course, smaller enrollment translates into fewer living alumni, so even if Davidson or St. Bonaventure were willing and able to double its enrollment overnight, it would still take at least 20-30 years to catch Providence in number of alumni

You are absolutely correct... but what is that applicable to?

Davidson and St. Bonaventure have had like 5 "at-large seasons" each despite their small enrollments and just win 18+ games over 75% of the time. Prorating for 2021 COVID cancellations: Bona is at 11 of the last 13 years and Davidson is at 10 of 14.

If you put them in the Big East:
(a) the exiting members are going to beat them because the Big East has the decades head start, so they'll be 9-14 in the conference. Which is GOOD FOR THEM.

(b) the new teams are going to schedule OOC easier because of all their harder Big East games. As long as they win OOC games at the same clip the Big East does now, which they absolutely can do, then it's the same average SOS for the conference, but now you're playing fewer games beating each other up and the top nine have better conference records. Which leads to more bids.


If you mean the TV side of things that schools that small won't have the fan bases than bring viewers, that runs contrary to what the Big East is and how it became what it is. The whole point is that Xavier, DePaul, Marquette, Butler, Nova, Georgetown, Seton Hall, Providence are just small schools than Cincinnati/Ohio St, Wisconsin, Indiana/Purdue, Rutgers, Maryland, URI... but the basketball is good, so those cities care and watch.

And as for Bona, sure the school is in a tiny town, but most their students come from Buffalo and Rochester, which are Top 50 MSAs and have no P6 programs (Rochester has no D-I programs! Bona gets coverage in those markets because their journalism program grads land in Buffalo and Rochester TV/news outlets).

That's 2.5 million people in Western New York, and the competition is Buffalo, Canisius and Niagara games on ESPN+. Not sure why that wouldn't appeal to FS1 execs. Especially since Bona fans watch on TV because none of us actually live in Olean, we're in Buffalo, Rochester and NYC.

(03-25-2024 12:59 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(03-25-2024 12:55 PM)BraveKnight Wrote:  That guy has like 300 followers. I doubt he’s breaking a story this massive. Nothing to see here.

And now a 20-page thread about Big East expansion incoming as if this source was real.

Exactly!

To be clear, though I would like to see the Big East add Gonzaga in some respects, the smart move is for the league to stand pat and see how everything shakes out with the all-sports P4.

Could there be some degree of pre-screening going on so they have data on hand in the even they need it later? If the ACC takes a hit, if Duke is among the left behind programs they may advocate for a basketball oriented rebuild that involves UConn, St John’s, Villanova, and Georgetown.

It would be helpful to have data in hand to get a rebuild rolling,

(03-25-2024 02:48 PM)BeatWestern! Wrote:  

(03-25-2024 12:59 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(03-25-2024 12:55 PM)BraveKnight Wrote:  That guy has like 300 followers. I doubt he’s breaking a story this massive. Nothing to see here.

And now a 20-page thread about Big East expansion incoming as if this source was real.

Exactly!

I don't think anyone thinks it's real, but I think the Big East doing something would be welcomed and what they should do is a fascinating discussion because it's counter-intuitive.

The ratios of teams in the Big East are too lopsided and tight. They should take Dayton, Duquesne and St. Bonaventure right now because they can justify it, and they'd have 3 more NCAA teams minimum, and another four on the bubble.

(03-25-2024 03:09 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Could there be some degree of pre-screening going on so they have data on hand in the even they need it later? If the ACC takes a hit, if Duke is among the left behind programs they may advocate for a basketball oriented rebuild that involves UConn, St John’s, Villanova, and Georgetown.

It would be helpful to have data in hand to get a rebuild rolling,

Only reason why I think expansion is possible is the TV deal coming up really soon. And coincide that with what happened this year. If they feel like we might see more bid theifs I think they might want to protect themselves somewhat.

(03-25-2024 02:00 PM)UCbball21 Wrote:  I think the Big East should hold steady and not expand. If the ACC blows up in the next decade or so, they are in position to add at least a few quality left-behind programs such as Syracuse, Boston College, and Wake Forest. Notre Dame could also join the Big East if the ACC folds.

That's a heck of a lot better than adding a program like Dayton or SLU. Even adding Gonzaga and St. Mary's on an island isn't exactly ideal.

The Big East should be focused on maximizing a new TV deal and only that. P2 realignment isn't over yet, and there is no reason to expand until the dust has settled.

This is reminiscent of the claims in 2021 that the AAC could raid the Big 12. If the ACC, even a weakened version of it, wants any schools from the BE, they'll be available.

Boston College and ND are shoe-ins.

(03-25-2024 03:24 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(03-25-2024 02:00 PM)UCbball21 Wrote:  I think the Big East should hold steady and not expand. If the ACC blows up in the next decade or so, they are in position to add at least a few quality left-behind programs such as Syracuse, Boston College, and Wake Forest. Notre Dame could also join the Big East if the ACC folds.

That's a heck of a lot better than adding a program like Dayton or SLU. Even adding Gonzaga and St. Mary's on an island isn't exactly ideal.

The Big East should be focused on maximizing a new TV deal and only that. P2 realignment isn't over yet, and there is no reason to expand until the dust has settled.

This is reminiscent of the claims in 2021 that the AAC could raid the Big 12. If the ACC, even a weakened version of it, wants any schools from the BE, they'll be available.

I agree, that's probably a more likely outcome. I was more referencing what the Big East should do, not what the ACC should do.

(03-25-2024 12:59 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(03-25-2024 12:55 PM)BraveKnight Wrote:  That guy has like 300 followers. I doubt he’s breaking a story this massive. Nothing to see here.

And now a 20-page thread about Big East expansion incoming as if this source was real.

Possibly. The only relevant part of this O.P. is the concept. When the upper tier for football is established they will look to maximize basketball revenue. I strongly suspect that something of this nature will be viable enough to get a couple of basketball only conferences with the best mid majors accepted into the upper tier for hoops and all sports but football if they so desire and are willing to abide by full compliance to the court rulings.

Think Super 2, M2, and MM2.

(03-25-2024 03:24 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(03-25-2024 02:00 PM)UCbball21 Wrote:  I think the Big East should hold steady and not expand. If the ACC blows up in the next decade or so, they are in position to add at least a few quality left-behind programs such as Syracuse, Boston College, and Wake Forest. Notre Dame could also join the Big East if the ACC folds.

That's a heck of a lot better than adding a program like Dayton or SLU. Even adding Gonzaga and St. Mary's on an island isn't exactly ideal.

The Big East should be focused on maximizing a new TV deal and only that. P2 realignment isn't over yet, and there is no reason to expand until the dust has settled.

This is reminiscent of the claims in 2021 that the AAC could raid the Big 12. If the ACC, even a weakened version of it, wants any schools from the BE, they'll be available.

In a few years the Mountain West is probably going to absorb the leftovers from the PAC after raids by the Big 10, Big 12, and ACC took away the vast majority of the conference within one year. Maybe they'll keep the PAC branding, but that's to be determined.

If the Big 10, SEC, and Big 12 all take enough schools there might not be that much of the ACC left. UConn will always be interested in a good home that has football but they did leave the AAC for the Big East. If the New ACC is mostly the AAC schools they left plus something like Boston College, Syracuse, Stanford, and Cal they would probably stay in the Big East and push Boston College and Syracuse to come along and also become fellow football independents who can easily schedule each other every year