(04-03-2024 01:58 PM)micman Wrote:  

(04-02-2024 05:32 PM)dwash Wrote:  

(04-02-2024 03:38 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(04-02-2024 12:34 PM)MemTigers1998 Wrote:  

(04-02-2024 12:28 PM)MtownTigers916 Wrote:  Entering the transfer portal. Criminally underplayed with Penny and his nepotism and whatnot.

Yep

He and Pierre sat behind pennys 2 boys all year when anyone could see who the better players were. Best of luck to CC. Hope he finds his way into a solid program and not another 3 ring circus

I agree with the sentiment that the Hardaway boys should not have been given any minutes other than mop up minutes or spot minutes when someone was in foul trouble.

At the same time, I do not think they took minutes from Pierre or CC. Meaning, if Jayden and Ashton were not on the roster then their minutes most likely would have gone back to the starters and not necessarily defaulted to CC and/or Pierre. I did not see anything from those two that made me think they were deserving of 10+ minutes a game. This is what is incredibly hard about college basketball now. Guys used to come in expecting to not play in year 1, to pay their dues and learn (outside of your top end recruits). But now, everyone coming in expects big minutes when the truth is that guys like Pierre and CC were not ready to play major minutes.

In a way this is true but it also should have not been the case. CC was pretty athletic so those 10-12 mopup minutes that have been given to Jayden would have been a better investment in CC. Not saying Penny does it but its how it should have been done. If you gone gift minutes then it always helps if the recepient has upside like.CC and Pierre did. Oh well.

I don't recall us having many mop up minutes this season. Not that I disagree with your sentiment about Jayden. I think, once the season went off the rails, that Carl should have been playing significantly more minutes. I think I could have found about 30 minutes of Quinerly to distribute around.

Penny played 10 guys most games. Once Mills was lost, Brown left, Young was incompetent, there was no reason an athletic player like Carl couldn’t get mins to develop.

(04-03-2024 01:00 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(04-03-2024 10:00 AM)Eagleonpar Wrote:  

(04-02-2024 05:36 PM)mapdude Wrote:  Not sure about CC but I though Pierre had a nice touch from outside the line and was a deep threat, but both lacked defense if I recall correctly. Just know that we did not have any body on the team outside of Jones who could hold the jock of any of these kids still playing this last weekend...

Anybody see the video of DJ Burns telling the other players their season was over while he was standing on the side during free throws. Cold blooded...

This isn’t a shot at you but how can you tell if someone is good or bad on defense when they hardly play ?

Pierre was easy because he was constantly out of position and not rotating properly.

I think its safe to say, this squad was plagued with guys either consistently out of position on defense or simply unwilling to defend.

(04-03-2024 08:11 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(04-03-2024 01:00 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(04-03-2024 10:00 AM)Eagleonpar Wrote:  

(04-02-2024 05:36 PM)mapdude Wrote:  Not sure about CC but I though Pierre had a nice touch from outside the line and was a deep threat, but both lacked defense if I recall correctly. Just know that we did not have any body on the team outside of Jones who could hold the jock of any of these kids still playing this last weekend...

Anybody see the video of DJ Burns telling the other players their season was over while he was standing on the side during free throws. Cold blooded...

This isn’t a shot at you but how can you tell if someone is good or bad on defense when they hardly play ?

Pierre was easy because he was constantly out of position and not rotating properly.

I think its safe to say, this squad was plagued with guys either consistently out of position on defense or simply unwilling to defend.

I get what you are saying, our defense sucked. But if you watched Pierre he literally did not know where to be defensively. IMO our team was just not athletic enough to run the defense Penny wanted, at least not consistently. Pierre's defensive issues were different in that regard, he was just lost defensively.

(04-03-2024 08:35 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(04-03-2024 08:11 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(04-03-2024 01:00 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(04-03-2024 10:00 AM)Eagleonpar Wrote:  

(04-02-2024 05:36 PM)mapdude Wrote:  Not sure about CC but I though Pierre had a nice touch from outside the line and was a deep threat, but both lacked defense if I recall correctly. Just know that we did not have any body on the team outside of Jones who could hold the jock of any of these kids still playing this last weekend...

Anybody see the video of DJ Burns telling the other players their season was over while he was standing on the side during free throws. Cold blooded...

This isn’t a shot at you but how can you tell if someone is good or bad on defense when they hardly play ?

Pierre was easy because he was constantly out of position and not rotating properly.

I think its safe to say, this squad was plagued with guys either consistently out of position on defense or simply unwilling to defend.

I get what you are saying, our defense sucked. But if you watched Pierre he literally did not know where to be defensively. IMO our team was just not athletic enough to run the defense Penny wanted, at least not consistently. Pierre's defensive issues were different in that regard, he was just lost defensively.

Personally, I’d rather see guys who cared, and I think its safe to say JP did, get minutes and learn on the floor instead of rewarding guys who knew better but refused to put forth the effort.

I realize hindsight is 20/20…

(04-03-2024 08:50 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(04-03-2024 08:35 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(04-03-2024 08:11 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(04-03-2024 01:00 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(04-03-2024 10:00 AM)Eagleonpar Wrote:  This isn’t a shot at you but how can you tell if someone is good or bad on defense when they hardly play ?

Pierre was easy because he was constantly out of position and not rotating properly.

I think its safe to say, this squad was plagued with guys either consistently out of position on defense or simply unwilling to defend.

I get what you are saying, our defense sucked. But if you watched Pierre he literally did not know where to be defensively. IMO our team was just not athletic enough to run the defense Penny wanted, at least not consistently. Pierre's defensive issues were different in that regard, he was just lost defensively.

Personally, I’d rather see guys who cared, and I think its safe to say JP did, get minutes and learn on the floor instead of rewarding guys who knew better but refused to put forth the effort.

I realize hindsight is 20/20…

This is where we fundamentally disagree. If he was not willing to learn the defense and proper rotations and placement in practice and outside of practice then I simply do not believe he really cared.

I am sure he cared about PT but he did not care enough to learn the basic defensive sets. Live action is not time for learning the basics...

These two guys are the exact problem with college basketball and roster building today. Neither were good enough to get much pt this year, but both had potential to contribute in the future. Rodney Carney was pretty awkward his first year. DJ Stephens averaged under 10 minutes a game his first three years. Nobody stays and develops and waits their turn.

(04-04-2024 12:34 AM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(04-03-2024 08:50 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(04-03-2024 08:35 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(04-03-2024 08:11 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(04-03-2024 01:00 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  Pierre was easy because he was constantly out of position and not rotating properly.

I think its safe to say, this squad was plagued with guys either consistently out of position on defense or simply unwilling to defend.

I get what you are saying, our defense sucked. But if you watched Pierre he literally did not know where to be defensively. IMO our team was just not athletic enough to run the defense Penny wanted, at least not consistently. Pierre's defensive issues were different in that regard, he was just lost defensively.

Personally, I’d rather see guys who cared, and I think its safe to say JP did, get minutes and learn on the floor instead of rewarding guys who knew better but refused to put forth the effort.

I realize hindsight is 20/20…

This is where we fundamentally disagree. If he was not willing to learn the defense and proper rotations and placement in practice and outside of practice then I simply do not believe he really cared.

I am sure he cared about PT but he did not care enough to learn the basic defensive sets. Live action is not time for learning the basics...

My point is basically everyone on the perimeter was out of position. So why was he treated any different ?

(04-04-2024 07:52 AM)Eagleonpar Wrote:  

(04-04-2024 12:34 AM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(04-03-2024 08:50 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(04-03-2024 08:35 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(04-03-2024 08:11 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  I think its safe to say, this squad was plagued with guys either consistently out of position on defense or simply unwilling to defend.

I get what you are saying, our defense sucked. But if you watched Pierre he literally did not know where to be defensively. IMO our team was just not athletic enough to run the defense Penny wanted, at least not consistently. Pierre's defensive issues were different in that regard, he was just lost defensively.

Personally, I’d rather see guys who cared, and I think its safe to say JP did, get minutes and learn on the floor instead of rewarding guys who knew better but refused to put forth the effort.

I realize hindsight is 20/20…

This is where we fundamentally disagree. If he was not willing to learn the defense and proper rotations and placement in practice and outside of practice then I simply do not believe he really cared.

I am sure he cared about PT but he did not care enough to learn the basic defensive sets. Live action is not time for learning the basics...

My point is basically everyone on the perimeter was out of position. So why was he treated any different ?

Exactly. If we were a lock down defensive squad & JP broke down our defense every time he stepped on the court, then I get it; but this was a really bad defensive team. Simple ball movement usually ended up perplexing this group. At least JP gave effort, while others refused to close out on shooters.

Same people who complain about Penny's long rotations of playing 11 guys, complain that some freshmen and not-ready-for-primetime players don't get enough minutes.
Go figure.

(04-02-2024 01:44 PM)mempho_to_diego Wrote:  

(04-02-2024 01:16 PM)pmantiger Wrote:  

(04-02-2024 12:49 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  This one hurts. Pierre & Cherenfant would have made for a nice core of returning players.

Down to 4 potential returnees I guess:

Hardaway
Cooper
Jourdain

and fingers crossed...Jones

Stansbury Jr. got some years left, right?

What about incoming Freshman SG Jared Harris?

https://247sports.com/Player/carl-cheren...ol-262956/
Carl, 247 NATL ranking: 115
Played in only 18 games, averaged 4 mins

https://247sports.com/Player/ashton-hard...ol-285320/
Ashton, 247 NATL ranking: 110
Played in 30 of 32 games, averaged 8 mins

An obvious case of nepotism. Develop your own kid and sacrifice the other incoming freshman’s growth.

(04-04-2024 07:52 AM)Eagleonpar Wrote:  

(04-04-2024 12:34 AM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(04-03-2024 08:50 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(04-03-2024 08:35 PM)SeñorTiger Wrote:  

(04-03-2024 08:11 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  I think its safe to say, this squad was plagued with guys either consistently out of position on defense or simply unwilling to defend.

I get what you are saying, our defense sucked. But if you watched Pierre he literally did not know where to be defensively. IMO our team was just not athletic enough to run the defense Penny wanted, at least not consistently. Pierre's defensive issues were different in that regard, he was just lost defensively.

Personally, I’d rather see guys who cared, and I think its safe to say JP did, get minutes and learn on the floor instead of rewarding guys who knew better but refused to put forth the effort.

I realize hindsight is 20/20…

This is where we fundamentally disagree. If he was not willing to learn the defense and proper rotations and placement in practice and outside of practice then I simply do not believe he really cared.

I am sure he cared about PT but he did not care enough to learn the basic defensive sets. Live action is not time for learning the basics...

My point is basically everyone on the perimeter was out of position. So why was he treated any different ?

But they were not out of position. They just could not run the defense. Again, there is a MASSIVE difference between knowing what spot to get to and just not being able to get there and not knowing what spot to even get to. Pierre did not know what to do or where to go.  

Pierre and CC simply were not ready to play at this level this year. They did not play because they could not contribute, it is really that simple. Pierre can shoot but he was also the worst defensive player on a really bad defensive team so he was still a major net negative. Had they stuck around I suspect both would have seen significantly more minutes this coming year.

(04-04-2024 08:45 AM)Tiger87 Wrote:  Same people who complain about Penny's long rotations of playing 11 guys, complain that some freshmen and not-ready-for-primetime players don't get enough minutes.
Go figure.

I kind of laugh at this as well. I keep seeing people state that Jayden and Ashton took Carl and Pierre's minutes as if that is a fact.

Truthfully, none of the 4 should have seen minutes or at least significant minutes. I contend that a roster without Jayden and Ashton would not have resulted in significantly more minutes for Carl or Pierre because the minutes would have simply been distributed to main rotation players. I am sure they would have seen a few more minutes but they were not going to bump up to 10-15 mpg all of a sudden, they were not ready to play at this level.

Jayden was established as a rotation guy coming into the year. Now, he seemed to take a step back as the year wore on. But he had earned rotation minutes coming in - especially as one of the few returnees.

Ashton had that big game at Nassau and won minutes from that. He never repeated, but he seemed capable of providing that 3- spark off the bench.

I agree that by end of year, neither should have gotten over 5 minutes a game. Ashton wasn't but Jayden still was.