(04-19-2024 12:16 PM)The Beaver Wrote:  Everyone seems to have missed "the big one" of the Pac-16 being a go until the last possible second. So that would have been Texas, Tech, A&M, Oklahoma and OSU going to the PAC with Colorado while Utah stayed behind in the MWC. And then who knows what happens to the rump schools, Nebraska was already set on the Big Ten by that point but people were speculating about an emergency tie-up with the Big East for the five remaining schools.

It was looking like:

PAC: Colorado, Oklahoma, Oklahoma St, Texas, Texas A&M, Texas Tech
B1G: Nebraska
BIG EAST: Iowa St, Kansas, Kansas St, Missouri
MWC (probably): Baylor

(04-19-2024 01:20 PM)BePcr07 Wrote:  

(04-19-2024 12:16 PM)The Beaver Wrote:  Everyone seems to have missed "the big one" of the Pac-16 being a go until the last possible second. So that would have been Texas, Tech, A&M, Oklahoma and OSU going to the PAC with Colorado while Utah stayed behind in the MWC. And then who knows what happens to the rump schools, Nebraska was already set on the Big Ten by that point but people were speculating about an emergency tie-up with the Big East for the five remaining schools.

It was looking like:

PAC: Colorado, Oklahoma, Oklahoma St, Texas, Texas A&M, Texas Tech
B1G: Nebraska
BIG EAST: Iowa St, Kansas, Kansas St, Missouri
MWC (probably): Baylor

Larry Scott went to each Big XII South school minus Baylor to issue invitations to the Pac-10.

The expectation was that each school was going to accept the invitation so Colorado was invited first so Baylor couldn’t maneuver their way to the conference like they did in the Big XII. Baylor was seen as the Texas version of BYU. Too toxic and radioactive for the Pac-10.

Utah was put on hold in case Texas A&M decided to go to the SEC. Kansas was the other option.

Baylor inquired with the TCU and the MWC if they had a spot available for them. The late Kenneth Starr who was the school chancellor made a public announcement letting Baylor students, alumni, donors and fans know that things were not on their favor and to get prepared for a post Big XII world.

When the Big XII was saved and A&M announced they were leaving for the SEC, Baylor did what Baylor does best: they sued the Aggies. They lost.

(04-19-2024 12:05 PM)CrazyPaco Wrote:  Michigan State to the Big 10 over Pitt in 1949.

I had no idea. Wow.

On the MAC board, some say Western Kentucky came within a hair of being admitted to the MAC years ago, but someone (Eastern Michigan?) objected.

(04-19-2024 02:31 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  

(04-19-2024 01:20 PM)BePcr07 Wrote:  

(04-19-2024 12:16 PM)The Beaver Wrote:  Everyone seems to have missed "the big one" of the Pac-16 being a go until the last possible second. So that would have been Texas, Tech, A&M, Oklahoma and OSU going to the PAC with Colorado while Utah stayed behind in the MWC. And then who knows what happens to the rump schools, Nebraska was already set on the Big Ten by that point but people were speculating about an emergency tie-up with the Big East for the five remaining schools.

It was looking like:

PAC: Colorado, Oklahoma, Oklahoma St, Texas, Texas A&M, Texas Tech
B1G: Nebraska
BIG EAST: Iowa St, Kansas, Kansas St, Missouri
MWC (probably): Baylor

Larry Scott went to each Big XII South school minus Baylor to issue invitations to the Pac-10.

The expectation was that each school was going to accept the invitation so Colorado was invited first so Baylor couldn’t maneuver their way to the conference like they did in the Big XII. Baylor was seen as the Texas version of BYU. Too toxic and radioactive for the Pac-10.

Utah was put on hold in case Texas A&M decided to go to the SEC. Kansas was the other option.

Baylor inquired with the TCU and the MWC if they had a spot available for them. The late Kenneth Starr who was the school chancellor made a public announcement letting Baylor students, alumni, donors and fans know that things were not on their favor and to get prepared for a post Big XII world.

When the Big XII was saved and A&M announced they were leaving for the SEC, Baylor did what Baylor does best: they sued the Aggies. They lost.

That was my memory as well. The MWC might’ve looked like this in 2012…

Mountain: Air Force, Baylor, Colorado St, New Mexico, TCU, Wyoming
West: Boise St, BYU, Fresno St, San Diego St, UNLV, Utah

I'm not sure this fits as "Almost Added" but the Metro Conference Super Conference did have advanced talks. Never got to the "almost" stage. If it had happened, it would've no doubt been dead by now but I am curious how the endgame would've changed the conference homes of those schools.

MEMPHIS

(04-19-2024 03:00 PM)BePcr07 Wrote:  

(04-19-2024 02:31 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  

(04-19-2024 01:20 PM)BePcr07 Wrote:  

(04-19-2024 12:16 PM)The Beaver Wrote:  Everyone seems to have missed "the big one" of the Pac-16 being a go until the last possible second. So that would have been Texas, Tech, A&M, Oklahoma and OSU going to the PAC with Colorado while Utah stayed behind in the MWC. And then who knows what happens to the rump schools, Nebraska was already set on the Big Ten by that point but people were speculating about an emergency tie-up with the Big East for the five remaining schools.

It was looking like:

PAC: Colorado, Oklahoma, Oklahoma St, Texas, Texas A&M, Texas Tech
B1G: Nebraska
BIG EAST: Iowa St, Kansas, Kansas St, Missouri
MWC (probably): Baylor

Larry Scott went to each Big XII South school minus Baylor to issue invitations to the Pac-10.

The expectation was that each school was going to accept the invitation so Colorado was invited first so Baylor couldn’t maneuver their way to the conference like they did in the Big XII. Baylor was seen as the Texas version of BYU. Too toxic and radioactive for the Pac-10.

Utah was put on hold in case Texas A&M decided to go to the SEC. Kansas was the other option.

Baylor inquired with the TCU and the MWC if they had a spot available for them. The late Kenneth Starr who was the school chancellor made a public announcement letting Baylor students, alumni, donors and fans know that things were not on their favor and to get prepared for a post Big XII world.

When the Big XII was saved and A&M announced they were leaving for the SEC, Baylor did what Baylor does best: they sued the Aggies. They lost.

That was my memory as well. The MWC might’ve looked like this in 2012…

Mountain: Air Force, Baylor, Colorado St, New Mexico, TCU, Wyoming
West: Boise St, BYU, Fresno St, San Diego St, UNLV, Utah

When A&M told Scott no, he flew to Lawrence, Kansas. They were on board to replace the Aggies.

ESPN and Fox came in with promises of big raises for the Big 12 and Texas decided not to go the day before all the board meetings started. Colorado had already moved. Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Oklahoma St. and Texas all had board meetings scheduled in the next couple of days to approve the move.

VaTech and WVU were nominated by Carolina at the formation of the ACC but didn’t have the support

Tulane went to a vote for the SWC to replace Arkansas and fell short

SMU was was originally to be included with TCU in the C-USA expansion but was left out at the 11th hour

There are also a lot of “we’d def accept you if you are interested” like the Sun Belt with UCF in the 90’s



* Rutgers turned down the Big East

Holy Cross turned down the A10 and their invite went to St. Joe’s

WVU came a vote shy of accepting Metro membership in the 80’s

UMass didn’t pursue an open invitation to C-USA upon its formation

(04-19-2024 12:50 PM)PeteTheChop Wrote:  

(04-19-2024 12:25 PM)GreenFreakUAB Wrote:  ...well, all you Noles on here could explain how everything went down with the FSU/SEC 'near miss' when they chose the ACC instead... ...of course, the story goes (at least what I've heard over the years) that Bobby B simply didn't want to be in the SEC as it was a tougher football conference than the ACC - hard to argue, especially back in the 80's or whenever the move was made...

Bowden saw an easier path to success in the ACC. FSU's president liked the ACC's academic prestige and certainly wasn't going to go against the preference of a successful and beloved football coach.

Meanwhile, ACC commissioner Gene Corrigan outschmoozed outhustled his SEC counterpart Roy Kramer, who (understandably) assumed FSU was a done deal since the Noles has applied to join the SEC numerous times dating back to the 1950's.

Miami was the backup plan, which bruised the egos of a few UM administrators who weren't convinced the SEC was a good institutional fit in the first place.

South Carolina equaled "Hey those guys are available. Just go get get them and be done with it."

They weren’t really a backup plan, they were to be included in the grand plan involving Texas and aTm. The SEC was UK and the dwarves on the hardwood, and that was important for a cosmopolitan locale like Miami. But you know this..

I’m not sure how you don’t know Miami had been in conversations with the ACC dating back to 1987 and they really prioritized a basketball centric conference for their fledgling program.

Once again, anything to paint the ACC in a bad light. You do seem to know an awful lot about WVU though

(04-19-2024 12:16 PM)The Beaver Wrote:  Everyone seems to have missed "the big one" of the Pac-16 being a go until the last possible second. So that would have been Texas, Tech, A&M, Oklahoma and OSU going to the PAC with Colorado while Utah stayed behind in the MWC. And then who knows what happens to the rump schools, Nebraska was already set on the Big Ten by that point but people were speculating about an emergency tie-up with the Big East for the five remaining schools.

A&M was going to go to the SEC, which we ended up doing anyway the next year. We never wanted the Pac, that was always Texas' plan. I wonder if that was Powers' plan all along when he told Bowtie that he'd "take care of" the Aggies. Utah or Kansas have variously been mentioned as the A&M replacement, and the Pac was still on board until last minute Larry Scott ineptitude (or Texas 2nd thoughts depending upon whom you ask) killed the whole deal.

(04-19-2024 01:00 PM)tf8693 Wrote:  

(04-19-2024 12:16 PM)The Beaver Wrote:  Everyone seems to have missed "the big one" of the Pac-16 being a go until the last possible second. So that would have been Texas, Tech, A&M, Oklahoma and OSU going to the PAC with Colorado while Utah stayed behind in the MWC. And then who knows what happens to the rump schools, Nebraska was already set on the Big Ten by that point but people were speculating about an emergency tie-up with the Big East for the five remaining schools.

As I understood it (and I could be wrong), the Pac-16 was derailed primarily because A&M preferred the SEC to the PAC. If that's the case, I'm somewhat surprised that they didn't simply replace A&M in this lineup with either Utah or Kansas. It would have been a step back, but not a drastic one. A&M was hardly the straw that stirred the drink.

Maybe we weren't back then, but I can think of a few Irish Catholics who will be quite unhappy come Aug 31!

The issue wasn't A&M preferring the SEC fyi, as I wrote above it was due to last minute finagling between Larry Scott and Texas, which led to Texas deciding they were better off remaining in the Big 12.

(04-19-2024 04:57 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(04-19-2024 03:00 PM)BePcr07 Wrote:  

(04-19-2024 02:31 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  

(04-19-2024 01:20 PM)BePcr07 Wrote:  

(04-19-2024 12:16 PM)The Beaver Wrote:  Everyone seems to have missed "the big one" of the Pac-16 being a go until the last possible second. So that would have been Texas, Tech, A&M, Oklahoma and OSU going to the PAC with Colorado while Utah stayed behind in the MWC. And then who knows what happens to the rump schools, Nebraska was already set on the Big Ten by that point but people were speculating about an emergency tie-up with the Big East for the five remaining schools.

It was looking like:

PAC: Colorado, Oklahoma, Oklahoma St, Texas, Texas A&M, Texas Tech
B1G: Nebraska
BIG EAST: Iowa St, Kansas, Kansas St, Missouri
MWC (probably): Baylor

Larry Scott went to each Big XII South school minus Baylor to issue invitations to the Pac-10.

The expectation was that each school was going to accept the invitation so Colorado was invited first so Baylor couldn’t maneuver their way to the conference like they did in the Big XII. Baylor was seen as the Texas version of BYU. Too toxic and radioactive for the Pac-10.

Utah was put on hold in case Texas A&M decided to go to the SEC. Kansas was the other option.

Baylor inquired with the TCU and the MWC if they had a spot available for them. The late Kenneth Starr who was the school chancellor made a public announcement letting Baylor students, alumni, donors and fans know that things were not on their favor and to get prepared for a post Big XII world.

When the Big XII was saved and A&M announced they were leaving for the SEC, Baylor did what Baylor does best: they sued the Aggies. They lost.

That was my memory as well. The MWC might’ve looked like this in 2012…

Mountain: Air Force, Baylor, Colorado St, New Mexico, TCU, Wyoming
West: Boise St, BYU, Fresno St, San Diego St, UNLV, Utah

When A&M told Scott no, he flew to Lawrence, Kansas. They were on board to replace the Aggies.

ESPN and Fox came in with promises of big raises for the Big 12 and Texas decided not to go the day before all the board meetings started. Colorado had already moved. Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Oklahoma St. and Texas all had board meetings scheduled in the next couple of days to approve the move.

What I've heard in the past was that you guys wanted to keep the LHN as is and Larry Scott wouldn't ok that, so...still more money you guys to stay in the Big 12, but not so much "more money to stay" as it would have been a $15m yearly hit to give up the LHN. I haven't read the Pac version of events, but, knowing them, Scott pushed to add Texas anyway and Stanford killed the deal per usual.

(04-19-2024 04:57 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(04-19-2024 03:00 PM)BePcr07 Wrote:  

(04-19-2024 02:31 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  

(04-19-2024 01:20 PM)BePcr07 Wrote:  

(04-19-2024 12:16 PM)The Beaver Wrote:  Everyone seems to have missed "the big one" of the Pac-16 being a go until the last possible second. So that would have been Texas, Tech, A&M, Oklahoma and OSU going to the PAC with Colorado while Utah stayed behind in the MWC. And then who knows what happens to the rump schools, Nebraska was already set on the Big Ten by that point but people were speculating about an emergency tie-up with the Big East for the five remaining schools.

It was looking like:

PAC: Colorado, Oklahoma, Oklahoma St, Texas, Texas A&M, Texas Tech
B1G: Nebraska
BIG EAST: Iowa St, Kansas, Kansas St, Missouri
MWC (probably): Baylor

Larry Scott went to each Big XII South school minus Baylor to issue invitations to the Pac-10.

The expectation was that each school was going to accept the invitation so Colorado was invited first so Baylor couldn’t maneuver their way to the conference like they did in the Big XII. Baylor was seen as the Texas version of BYU. Too toxic and radioactive for the Pac-10.

Utah was put on hold in case Texas A&M decided to go to the SEC. Kansas was the other option.

Baylor inquired with the TCU and the MWC if they had a spot available for them. The late Kenneth Starr who was the school chancellor made a public announcement letting Baylor students, alumni, donors and fans know that things were not on their favor and to get prepared for a post Big XII world.

When the Big XII was saved and A&M announced they were leaving for the SEC, Baylor did what Baylor does best: they sued the Aggies. They lost.

That was my memory as well. The MWC might’ve looked like this in 2012…

Mountain: Air Force, Baylor, Colorado St, New Mexico, TCU, Wyoming
West: Boise St, BYU, Fresno St, San Diego St, UNLV, Utah

When A&M told Scott no, he flew to Lawrence, Kansas. They were on board to replace the Aggies.

ESPN and Fox came in with promises of big raises for the Big 12 and Texas decided not to go the day before all the board meetings started. Colorado had already moved. Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Oklahoma St. and Texas all had board meetings scheduled in the next couple of days to approve the move.

Right, my memory was that the invites weren't publicly announced but had been issued to the six members at the same time, its just that Colorado had jumped early. When A&M backed out the other schools paused for a few days, Texas ended up getting cold feet and then the offers were pulled from the rest. The Kansas talk was more that the PAC-10 wanted them all along but were being forced to take Tech to keep Texas happy. Baylor never had a realistic shot at anything, no-one was worried about them and they were terrible at both revenue sports (the NCAA violations would begin soon-after, leading to better on field performances).

Utah was a scramble move by the PAC since they wanted an even number plus championship game. They weren't getting in any other way and are probably right up there with Rutgers and UCF as the 2000s' biggest winners in expansion.

(04-19-2024 05:04 PM)esayem Wrote:  Holy Cross turned down the A10 and their invite went to St. Joe’s

They turned down an inaugural invite to the Big East too, and have been regretting it ever since.

(04-19-2024 05:31 PM)The Beaver Wrote:  

(04-19-2024 05:04 PM)esayem Wrote:  Holy Cross turned down the A10 and their invite went to St. Joe’s

They turned down an inaugural invite to the Big East too, and have been regretting it ever since.

BC, six others form new basketball league

I’m not sure where that started but it’s false. No way the Big East drafted two programs out of MA

(04-19-2024 06:07 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(04-19-2024 05:31 PM)The Beaver Wrote:  

(04-19-2024 05:04 PM)esayem Wrote:  Holy Cross turned down the A10 and their invite went to St. Joe’s

They turned down an inaugural invite to the Big East too, and have been regretting it ever since.

BC, six others form new basketball league

I’m not sure where that started but it’s false. No way the Big East drafted two programs out of MA

Well, I read it on wikipedia, which cites SUathletics, though reading that article they actually say the same as you, that they were considered but the "Boston slot" went to BC instead, versus Rutgers who actually declined the invite.

In 1990 the Great Midwest Conference was formed. Membership included Cincinnati, Memphis State, UAB, Marquette, Saint Louis, and DePaul. Over the next several years they expanded with Dayton and were in talks with other schools. The Great Midwest ended up joining with the Metro Conference to form Conference USA. Louisville was pushing for South Alabama to be added and UAB was in the corner of South Alabama as well. South Alabama was told by the ADs at Louisville and UAB that they had the votes to join. The South Alabama AD was poised to fly to Louisville to accept membership, but the South Alabama president called him the night before to tell him we were backing out. His thought was it would be better for South Alabama to be a big fish in a small pond.

It’s a decision that’s been oft lamented by Jag fans. There's no telling where South Alabama would be today had we left the Sun Belt to be in that initial iteration of CUSA. We’d undoubtedly have started football earlier, but we might have been able to sustain where we were at in basketball. We were still a national power in baseball during those years, but South could have really benefited from joining.

VT was close to get a full Big East membership in 1995 but had to wait until 2000.

Cuse was close to get an invitation from the ACC in 2004 but had to wait until 2014

UL was vying for the last Big 12 membership in 2012. WVU got in and Louisville headed to the ACC in 2014 instead.

UConn was probably close to get an invitation from the B12 if some or all of 4C schools stayed. Yormark also wanted Gonzaga but didn’t get enough support.

(04-19-2024 10:06 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(04-19-2024 09:54 AM)PeteTheChop Wrote:  Missouri edged out West Virginia as TAMU's tagalong beginning in 2012

It wasn’t an edge out other than in the minds of WVU Internet personalities like The Dude. The SEC was looking for pure cable households for the soon-to-be-launched SEC Network (just like the Big Ten adding Rutgers and Maryland a year later) and Mizzou provided those households.

As Mr. Dazzle has said,"Missouri fits a lot better than people think."

(04-19-2024 05:22 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(04-19-2024 01:00 PM)tf8693 Wrote:  

(04-19-2024 12:16 PM)The Beaver Wrote:  Everyone seems to have missed "the big one" of the Pac-16 being a go until the last possible second. So that would have been Texas, Tech, A&M, Oklahoma and OSU going to the PAC with Colorado while Utah stayed behind in the MWC. And then who knows what happens to the rump schools, Nebraska was already set on the Big Ten by that point but people were speculating about an emergency tie-up with the Big East for the five remaining schools.

As I understood it (and I could be wrong), the Pac-16 was derailed primarily because A&M preferred the SEC to the PAC. If that's the case, I'm somewhat surprised that they didn't simply replace A&M in this lineup with either Utah or Kansas. It would have been a step back, but not a drastic one. A&M was hardly the straw that stirred the drink.

Maybe we weren't back then, but I can think of a few Irish Catholics who will be quite unhappy come Aug 31!

The issue wasn't A&M preferring the SEC fyi, as I wrote above it was due to last minute finagling between Larry Scott and Texas, which led to Texas deciding they were better off remaining in the Big 12.

In 1990 Texas and A&M decided it would be UT in the Pac and A&M in the SEC until Stanford vetoed Texas. In 1994 A&M was headed to the SEC and Texas where-ever they would take Texas Tech (not Pac, not B$G, Big 12 probably yes) until Bob Bullock explained to A&M they would be going to the Big 12 with Baylor and Tech.

(04-19-2024 05:26 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(04-19-2024 04:57 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(04-19-2024 03:00 PM)BePcr07 Wrote:  

(04-19-2024 02:31 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  

(04-19-2024 01:20 PM)BePcr07 Wrote:  It was looking like:

PAC: Colorado, Oklahoma, Oklahoma St, Texas, Texas A&M, Texas Tech
B1G: Nebraska
BIG EAST: Iowa St, Kansas, Kansas St, Missouri
MWC (probably): Baylor

Larry Scott went to each Big XII South school minus Baylor to issue invitations to the Pac-10.

The expectation was that each school was going to accept the invitation so Colorado was invited first so Baylor couldn’t maneuver their way to the conference like they did in the Big XII. Baylor was seen as the Texas version of BYU. Too toxic and radioactive for the Pac-10.

Utah was put on hold in case Texas A&M decided to go to the SEC. Kansas was the other option.

Baylor inquired with the TCU and the MWC if they had a spot available for them. The late Kenneth Starr who was the school chancellor made a public announcement letting Baylor students, alumni, donors and fans know that things were not on their favor and to get prepared for a post Big XII world.

When the Big XII was saved and A&M announced they were leaving for the SEC, Baylor did what Baylor does best: they sued the Aggies. They lost.

That was my memory as well. The MWC might’ve looked like this in 2012…

Mountain: Air Force, Baylor, Colorado St, New Mexico, TCU, Wyoming
West: Boise St, BYU, Fresno St, San Diego St, UNLV, Utah

When A&M told Scott no, he flew to Lawrence, Kansas. They were on board to replace the Aggies.

ESPN and Fox came in with promises of big raises for the Big 12 and Texas decided not to go the day before all the board meetings started. Colorado had already moved. Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Oklahoma St. and Texas all had board meetings scheduled in the next couple of days to approve the move.

What I've heard in the past was that you guys wanted to keep the LHN as is and Larry Scott wouldn't ok that, so...still more money you guys to stay in the Big 12, but not so much "more money to stay" as it would have been a $15m yearly hit to give up the LHN. I haven't read the Pac version of events, but, knowing them, Scott pushed to add Texas anyway and Stanford killed the deal per usual.

That is the Pac version of events, not the Texas version. President Powers, Deloss Dodds and Chris Plonsky had an hour long press conference the next day. Basically, UT could get similar schedules (since they were trying to regionalize) and similar money (renegotiated Big 12 contract promised by Fox and ESPN), so why do it? I'm pretty sure they never mentioned the LHN once in that press conference.

And as I have pointed out before and linked before, nobody had any clue the LHN would pay $15 million at that time. And Fox was expected to get it. The thought was it would only be worth about $3 million annually.

The LHN would not have been a stumbling block. The Pac has two team regional channels. It could have been worked out. UT early on offered to share it with A&M, but Bill Byrne wasn't interested (since at that time the idea was $0-$3 million).