If looking at where schools fit best based on geography, then Clemson and probably FSU (???) would be better off in the SEC as opposed to the ACC.

The average driving distance (rounded up/down) from Clemson to each of the ACC schools (including ND, SMU, Cal, & Stanford) and SEC schools (including OU & Texas) using Google maps is:
SEC = 510 miles
ACC = 740 miles

The average driving distance from Clemson to the six (6) closest ACC and SEC schools is:
SEC = 215 miles (UGA, USC, Tenn, Auburn, Bama, Kentucky)
ACC = 245 miles (Ga Tech, WF, UNC, Duke, NCSU, Va Tech)

The average driving distance from Clemson to the ten (10) closest ACC and SEC schools is:
SEC = 295 miles (UGA, USC, Tenn, Auburn, Bama, Kentucky, Vandy, MSU, UF, Miss)
ACC = 320 miles (Ga Tech, WF, UNC, Duke, NCSU, Va Tech, FSU, UVA, UL, Pitt)

The two closest ACC and SEC schools to Clemson are:
SEC = UGA - 75 miles & USC - 135 miles
ACC = Ga Tech - 120 miles & WF - 215 miles

The two farthest ACC and SEC schools to Clemson are:
SEC = Oklahoma - 985 miles & Texas - 1,205 miles
ACC = Stanford - 2,580 miles & Cal - 2,590 miles

If you remove the two outliers from the ACC (Cal & Stanford) and from the SEC (OU & Texas), the average driving distance becomes:
SEC = 440 miles
ACC = 490 miles

When it comes to geography, the SEC certainly appears to be the better option for Clemson and probably FSU (???).

Sure.

But that geographical fit argument will be thrown out the window as soon as Clemson and FSU join the Big Ten.

(04-19-2024 05:36 PM)random asian guy Wrote:  Sure.

But that geographical fit argument will be thrown out the window as soon as Clemson and FSU join the Big Ten.

The only reason either FSU or Clemson would join the B1G is if the SEC wasn't interested.

The geographic proximity argument favors FSU to the SEC even more than it favors Clemson to the SEC.

(04-19-2024 05:41 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(04-19-2024 05:36 PM)random asian guy Wrote:  Sure.

But that geographical fit argument will be thrown out the window as soon as Clemson and FSU join the Big Ten.

The only reason either FSU or Clemson would join the B1G is if the SEC wasn't interested.

The geographic proximity argument favors FSU to the SEC even more than it favors Clemson to the SEC.

You can talk about geographical fit all day long, but if the Big Ten calls now and the SEC says wait until 2033, they will leave immediately for the B10.

I can't speak for Clemson, but FSU seems to fancy itself more nationally, all along the east coast up into the NE where they like to draw students from. At one time FSU would have viewed itself as a SE school, but I don't get the sense that they view themselves that way any longer.

The ACC is/was near perfect for FSU geographically, academically, athletically. The problem is that by their claim the conference mismanaged it's properties and now the financials have become "untenable".

(04-19-2024 06:18 PM)Garrettabc Wrote:  I can't speak for Clemson, but FSU seems to fancy itself more nationally, all along the east coast up into the NE where they like to draw students from. At one time FSU would have viewed itself as a SE school, but I don't get the sense that they view themselves that way any longer.

The ACC is/was near perfect for FSU geographically, academically, athletically. The problem is that by their claim the conference mismanaged it's properties and now the financials have become "untenable".

So do you think the ACC has the properties to make up how much ground exactly? I can’t wait for FSU to explain this one in court

(04-19-2024 02:39 PM)PAW79 Wrote:  If looking at where schools fit best based on geography, then Clemson and probably FSU (???) would be better off in the SEC as opposed to the ACC.

The average driving distance (rounded up/down) from Clemson to each of the ACC schools (including ND, SMU, Cal, & Stanford) and SEC schools (including OU & Texas) using Google maps is:
SEC = 510 miles
ACC = 740 miles

The average driving distance from Clemson to the six (6) closest ACC and SEC schools is:
SEC = 215 miles (UGA, USC, Tenn, Auburn, Bama, Kentucky)
ACC = 245 miles (Ga Tech, WF, UNC, Duke, NCSU, Va Tech)

The average driving distance from Clemson to the ten (10) closest ACC and SEC schools is:
SEC = 295 miles (UGA, USC, Tenn, Auburn, Bama, Kentucky, Vandy, MSU, UF, Miss)
ACC = 320 miles (Ga Tech, WF, UNC, Duke, NCSU, Va Tech, FSU, UVA, UL, Pitt)

The two closest ACC and SEC schools to Clemson are:
SEC = UGA - 75 miles & USC - 135 miles
ACC = Ga Tech - 120 miles & WF - 215 miles

The two farthest ACC and SEC schools to Clemson are:
SEC = Oklahoma - 985 miles & Texas - 1,205 miles
ACC = Stanford - 2,580 miles & Cal - 2,590 miles

If you remove the two outliers from the ACC (Cal & Stanford) and from the SEC (OU & Texas), the average driving distance becomes:
SEC = 440 miles
ACC = 490 miles

When it comes to geography, the SEC certainly appears to be the better option for Clemson and probably FSU (???).

It might be better to measure travel time. Clemson is not going to bus any team for 15 hours to Austin. They would probably bus to Atlanta or Charlotte and fly. If they are charter, they can fly out of Greenville.

(04-19-2024 06:18 PM)Garrettabc Wrote:  I can't speak for Clemson, but FSU seems to fancy itself more nationally, all along the east coast up into the NE where they like to draw students from. At one time FSU would have viewed itself as a SE school, but I don't get the sense that they view themselves that way any longer.

The ACC is/was near perfect for FSU geographically, academically, athletically. The problem is that by their claim the conference mismanaged it's properties and now the financials have become "untenable".

In real life when anyone uses this terminology it implies that the one doing the fancying is delusional, and not what they believe themselves to be. Tallahassee is a nice town turned city but national it is not. It SE of Dothan, AL almost due South of Thomasville, GA, on the Panhandle and West of the Okefenokee Swamp. Atlanta, Miami, DFW, L.A., NYC, Chicago, Seatle have a national and international flavor. Tallahassee's flavor is BBQ Pork, Fried Chicken, Corn on the Cob, Fried Okra, Fresh Tomatoes, and Sweat Tea. That's not national.

(04-19-2024 06:35 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(04-19-2024 06:18 PM)Garrettabc Wrote:  I can't speak for Clemson, but FSU seems to fancy itself more nationally, all along the east coast up into the NE where they like to draw students from. At one time FSU would have viewed itself as a SE school, but I don't get the sense that they view themselves that way any longer.

The ACC is/was near perfect for FSU geographically, academically, athletically. The problem is that by their claim the conference mismanaged it's properties and now the financials have become "untenable".

So do you think the ACC has the properties to make up how much ground exactly? I can’t wait for FSU to explain this one in court

I don't think this was mentioned in the court filing, it was mentioned by Doug Rohan and I think it echo's the sentiments of the FSU BOT.

My argument: The current ACC properties should have been enough to keep the ACC in the conversation with the other P2. UM, VT, BC was a grand slam expansion at the time with all 3 coming off or in the midst of their peak years. ACC membership slowly eroded these brands where Big12 membership seems to be their likely landing spot or possibly back to the BE in the case of BC. UMd saw the writing on the wall and left while they still had an offer. GT's brand is currently in the toilet and it's going to take some time to dig themselves out. Many of these wounds were self inflicted, but the ACC did not do themselves any favors. The only school who's value increased in the last 20 years was Clemson, they spent the money to be good and they are looking to cash in.

The ACC has the properties to make up ground, but have not fully capitalized on it. I've been pointing this out on all the potentially good annual matchups that the ACC left on the table with it's divisional alignment and now they are locked up in a bad contract with no seeming way to squeeze any more money out of ESPN.

Clemson is a good example of doing what it takes to make themselves valuable in football, Duke and UNC are good examples of basketball focused schools making themselves respectable enough in football to get occasional prime time worthy games.

The ACC has been horrible about self promotion, it should be mostly up to their media partner to do this, but their media partner is clearly playing favorites with the SEC and ESPN has not promoted ACC basketball (or basketball in general) as they should. The ACC is fortunate to have 2/4 of the most valuable basketball brands with Duke vs UNC having more viewers than most cfb games. How the ACC has not been able to leverage this in their contract is negigent or incompetent.


Edit: SMU is a good example of a school that is doing all the right things to become one of the most valuable ACC properties by the end of the 2036 ESPN contract. Too bad they are late to the party.

(04-19-2024 06:18 PM)Garrettabc Wrote:  I can't speak for Clemson, but FSU seems to fancy itself more nationally, all along the east coast up into the NE where they like to draw students from. At one time FSU would have viewed itself as a SE school, but I don't get the sense that they view themselves that way any longer.

The ACC is/was near perfect for FSU geographically, academically, athletically. The problem is that by their claim the conference mismanaged it's properties and now the financials have become "untenable".

Certainly, this is the view of a faction of Seminoles...a faction I think is now distinctly in the minority. The majority may have been OK with the ACC before or even happy there, but there's no putting the cat back in the bag. If we make it into the SEC I don't think you'll find many other FSU fans nostalgic for the ACC days with you.

Thats one way of looking at it, here's another. One of the big usages of college athletics is as an advertisement of the school to potential students. The Big 10, with its wider-ranging and more populous footprint is thus more attractive to the two lawsuit schools.

Do I believe it? Not really but its no more fantastical than the OP's argument about ACC schools being too far for Clemson, a school located very close to the conference's geographic center.

(04-19-2024 07:40 PM)Gamenole Wrote:  

(04-19-2024 06:18 PM)Garrettabc Wrote:  I can't speak for Clemson, but FSU seems to fancy itself more nationally, all along the east coast up into the NE where they like to draw students from. At one time FSU would have viewed itself as a SE school, but I don't get the sense that they view themselves that way any longer.

The ACC is/was near perfect for FSU geographically, academically, athletically. The problem is that by their claim the conference mismanaged it's properties and now the financials have become "untenable".

Certainly, this is the view of a faction of Seminoles...a faction I think is now distinctly in the minority. The majority may have been OK with the ACC before or even happy there, but there's no putting the cat back in the bag. If we make it into the SEC I don't think you'll find many other FSU fans nostalgic for the ACC days with you.

My point, but without saying it, is that the B1G fills FSU's desires better than the SEC and every FSU outlet seem's to lean this way. If the B1G wants FSU then they could easily close the deal by taking Clemson and Miami as well.