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RE: Potential XFL return - RUScarlets - 01-29-2018 08:45 PM
(01-28-2018 05:47 PM)Renandpat Wrote:(01-28-2018 05:43 PM)RUScarlets Wrote: I think you should do a 7 on 7s.... sandlot style. No head contact, keep it flag. Get the skill players involved. You can get young and older players that way. Spring ball from April to June. Take the head out of the game and make it an alternative for young athletes that want a healthy life after competitive football. I get that arena football does this to an extent, but then compete and displace Arena football since that is realistic competition that you can beat.
And how much would that ticket be worth?
Better yet, how much would you pay?
Well, Arena league is in shambles so it's not like the big hits, sexy cheerleaders, and ridiculous plays are driving ratings in the first place.
What you need is a stark contrast to the NFL without the WWE flare. That stuff has to go because if people want that, they will watch WWE.
You do 7s or 8s and take away the high probability of injury by minimizing the contact, you have something there.
RE: Potential XFL return - arkstfan - 01-29-2018 10:36 PM
(01-29-2018 08:45 PM)RUScarlets Wrote:(01-28-2018 05:47 PM)Renandpat Wrote:(01-28-2018 05:43 PM)RUScarlets Wrote: I think you should do a 7 on 7s.... sandlot style. No head contact, keep it flag. Get the skill players involved. You can get young and older players that way. Spring ball from April to June. Take the head out of the game and make it an alternative for young athletes that want a healthy life after competitive football. I get that arena football does this to an extent, but then compete and displace Arena football since that is realistic competition that you can beat.
And how much would that ticket be worth?
Better yet, how much would you pay?
Well, Arena league is in shambles so it's not like the big hits, sexy cheerleaders, and ridiculous plays are driving ratings in the first place.
What you need is a stark contrast to the NFL without the WWE flare. That stuff has to go because if people want that, they will watch WWE.
You do 7s or 8s and take away the high probability of injury by minimizing the contact, you have something there.
I think 7s or 8s might attract attention. It's actually fun to watch summer 7 on 7.
I don't think the suggestion from some about standing for the anthem will even be relevant come 2020.
Selling violent hits. I doubt that is a winner.
Sex, I don't think that will sell. I've been to all the major sports and football just doesn't have the high ratios of women dressed out in team gear you see in soccer and baseball which seem to do very well nor as many as hockey and basketball (and seems like the female crowds are growing for basketball every time I go).
My guess is a 90 to 120 minute "live" clock that will only stop for injuries and scores. XFL used a 35 second clock after a play was blown dead. Probably push TV to do onscreen ads like soccer in exchange for a 90 to 120 second break after scores and maybe a 45 to 60 second break after change of possession.
RE: Potential XFL return - Love and Honor - 01-29-2018 10:44 PM
Don't know if it's been mentioned over the last few pages, but one thing to keep in mind is that the NFL and player association's contract runs out in 2021; if this league can last into its second season and there's a lockout/strike, it'll really help set up the XFL as an alternative if discontent for the NFL grows even higher like baseball post-1994.
RE: Potential XFL return - Renandpat - 01-29-2018 11:20 PM
(01-29-2018 10:44 PM)Love and Honor Wrote: Don't know if it's been mentioned over the last few pages, but one thing to keep in mind is that the NFL and player association's contract runs out in 2021; if this league can last into its second season and there's a lockout/strike, it'll really help set up the XFL as an alternative if discontent for the NFL grows even higher like baseball post-1994.
The UFL tried that route and it failed miserably.
RE: Potential XFL return - Tom in Lazybrook - 01-29-2018 11:23 PM
(01-29-2018 10:44 PM)Love and Honor Wrote: Don't know if it's been mentioned over the last few pages, but one thing to keep in mind is that the NFL and player association's contract runs out in 2021; if this league can last into its second season and there's a lockout/strike, it'll really help set up the XFL as an alternative if discontent for the NFL grows even higher like baseball post-1994.
Sure, but what is the XFL going to pay an average player? 50k? McMahon says he's ponying up 100 million. That's not even the cost of a season of football in the friggin Sun Belt. If he's going to pay even 100k a player average, he's going to need to raise 2 billion for an 8 team league. That's minimum. Who the hell is going to invest in this circus? Hey, lets play February football in a bunch of decrepit stadiums.
And McMahon's more stringent demands on the players isn't going to cause much affinity by the NFL players.
Potential XFL return - arkstfan - 01-30-2018 12:38 AM
I bet they pay close to the CFL if that well.
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RE: Potential XFL return - C2__ - 01-30-2018 03:14 AM
I just hate it. I can't stand it. Why be the latest to start a failed spring league? And why do it for a second time?
He should be working with the NFL or with college football if anything.
RE: Potential XFL return - arkstfan - 01-30-2018 08:37 AM
(01-30-2018 03:14 AM)_C2_ Wrote: I just hate it. I can't stand it. Why be the latest to start a failed spring league? And why do it for a second time?
He should be working with the NFL or with college football if anything.
Because the USFL was working until a couple owners broke the informal salary cap and then wanted to go to the Fall in hopes of forcing a merger.
Call it a developmental league and you automatically cut the fan potential.
RE: Potential XFL return - solohawks - 01-30-2018 08:56 AM
Doesn't the NFL labor agreement run out after the 2019 season?
A work stoppage in the NFL would be a big win for Mr. McMahon.
If I didn't know any better, I'd say he was trying to schedule his launch around a potential NFL strike
RE: Potential XFL return - Maize - 01-30-2018 01:40 PM
The XFL is doomed for failure....no player will be willing to play for the pay McMahon would be offering...the best players in the world would stick with the much higher paying National Football League...
RE: Potential XFL return - RUScarlets - 01-30-2018 01:48 PM
Off topic to an extent, but I'm interested to see what the Carolina Panthers sell for. If big buyers step in and bid them up, you have to think a lockout isn't a huge concern for a shrewd business man. Nonetheless, it is an NFL franchise and it will be bid up like crazy.
But if McMahon is anticipating a lockout (very real possibility), he needs to brand his league as a stark contrast to the NFL. And it can't be anything similar to the XFL. That's why aside from the PC stuff, you have to take the head out of the game.
RE: Potential XFL return - arkstfan - 01-30-2018 03:05 PM
(01-30-2018 01:40 PM)Maize Wrote: The XFL is doomed for failure....no player will be willing to play for the pay McMahon would be offering...the best players in the world would stick with the much higher paying National Football League...
There will be 400+ players who will happily sign an XFL contract. Last time around they paid $45,000 a season or $50,000 for QBs.
Assume they pay that exact amount again.
CFL minimum is $42,000 US and average is $78,660, you can go play in San Antonio or Orlando and don't have to deal with any immigration mess to get a work permit.
The median household income in the US is just over $50,000. The median income for a college graduate isn't much higher than $45,000.
There will be a lot of guys out of college eligibility who don't have job prospects offering as much as the XFL would pay if it pays at the 2001 rate.
Knowing some XFL players went on to the NFL will just give them extra reasons to sign.
No one ever thought XFL was going to raid NFL rosters.
RE: Potential XFL return - C2__ - 01-30-2018 03:41 PM
(01-30-2018 08:37 AM)arkstfan Wrote:(01-30-2018 03:14 AM)_C2_ Wrote: I just hate it. I can't stand it. Why be the latest to start a failed spring league? And why do it for a second time?
He should be working with the NFL or with college football if anything.
Because the USFL was working until a couple owners broke the informal salary cap and then wanted to go to the Fall in hopes of forcing a merger.
Call it a developmental league and you automatically cut the fan potential.
Yeah and if I start a Mom and Pop shop, having failed before and start again, should I expect to compete with Wal-Mart?
I admire his ambition but football has already reached a critical mass. If people don't watch the NFL, they'll watch college football and if they don't watch that, they'll watch high school or their kid's peewee league. They may even play it themselves.
It's not my money, he can do what he wants but its the definition of insanity.
RE: Potential XFL return - arkstfan - 01-30-2018 04:51 PM
(01-30-2018 03:41 PM)_C2_ Wrote:(01-30-2018 08:37 AM)arkstfan Wrote:(01-30-2018 03:14 AM)_C2_ Wrote: I just hate it. I can't stand it. Why be the latest to start a failed spring league? And why do it for a second time?
He should be working with the NFL or with college football if anything.
Because the USFL was working until a couple owners broke the informal salary cap and then wanted to go to the Fall in hopes of forcing a merger.
Call it a developmental league and you automatically cut the fan potential.
Yeah and if I start a Mom and Pop shop, having failed before and start again, should I expect to compete with Wal-Mart?
I admire his ambition but football has already reached a critical mass. If people don't watch the NFL, they'll watch college football and if they don't watch that, they'll watch high school or their kid's peewee league. They may even play it themselves.
It's not my money, he can do what he wants but its the definition of insanity.
Your analogy isn't quite on mark.
USFL was working in the spring. They were selling tickets and drawing a decent TV audience. Couple owners broke the cap and weren't making money in line with their spending. Teams like Memphis, Birmingham and Jacksonville were doing just fine.
The move to fall was the bailout plan of the overspenders.
WLAF had only 7 US teams and the silliness of sending teams off to Europe to play. Two of the teams in the US were solvent enough to buy in to the CFL. The CFL teams in the US did OK until college football and the NFL started then the crowds disappeared but even at the end San Antonio and Baltimore (relocating to Houston because the Browns were moving to Baltimore) were still viable and in the end the CFL pulled the plug and then awarded the new Montreal franchise to Baltimore's owner.
Not like they have been complete busts.
RE: Potential XFL return - Fighting Muskie - 01-30-2018 05:36 PM
I disagree that football as an entertainment outlet has reached its saturation point. In fact I think their is a huge potential market that can be tapped into by playing the schedule McMahon has proposed. For football fans who have no interest in basketball or hockey there is nothing to watch until NFL pre-season starts and those aren't attractive to most fans so we are really talking about a window between Super Bowl Sunday and Labor Day weekend with no content.
The USFL had plenty of teams that were doing just fine playing the Spring schedule. It wasn't until Donald Trump convinced several owners to switch to a fall schedule that things fell apart. Almost all of the teams that weren't going to come back for 1986 were teams that shared a market with the NFL. I truly believe that had the pay stuck to Spring for 3-4 more years they would have won their lawsuit and either received real damages or admission into the NFL for some of the teams the way the WHA and ABA did in their respective sports.
Unlike CFL-USA, the teams in the Deep South won't have to compete with the collegiate game and unlike the UFL the project will not be under-marketed and under-capitalized.
RE: Potential XFL return - solohawks - 01-30-2018 05:55 PM
(01-30-2018 05:36 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote: I disagree that football as an entertainment outlet has reached its saturation point. In fact I think their is a huge potential market that can be tapped into by playing the schedule McMahon has proposed. For football fans who have no interest in basketball or hockey there is nothing to watch until NFL pre-season starts and those aren't attractive to most fans so we are really talking about a window between Super Bowl Sunday and Labor Day weekend with no content.
The USFL had plenty of teams that were doing just fine playing the Spring schedule. It wasn't until Donald Trump convinced several owners to switch to a fall schedule that things fell apart. Almost all of the teams that weren't going to come back for 1986 were teams that shared a market with the NFL. I truly believe that had the pay stuck to Spring for 3-4 more years they would have won their lawsuit and either received real damages or admission into the NFL for some of the teams the way the WHA and ABA did in their respective sports.
Unlike CFL-USA, the teams in the Deep South won't have to compete with the collegiate game and unlike the UFL the project will not be under-marketed and under-capitalized.
The USFL after season 1 was not all sunshine and rainbows
Per Wiki:
Seeing the out of control spending worsening, Blanding sold his Denver Gold to Doug Spedding for $10 million. Blanding is widely thought to be the only owner to make a profit on the USFL.
Needing fresh capital, the league chose to expand league membership from 12 to 18 teams, adding the Pittsburgh Maulers, Houston Gamblers, San Antonio Gunslingers, Memphis Showboats, Oklahoma Outlaws and Jacksonville
RE: Potential XFL return - Renandpat - 01-30-2018 06:06 PM
(01-30-2018 04:51 PM)arkstfan Wrote:(01-30-2018 03:41 PM)_C2_ Wrote:(01-30-2018 08:37 AM)arkstfan Wrote:(01-30-2018 03:14 AM)_C2_ Wrote: I just hate it. I can't stand it. Why be the latest to start a failed spring league? And why do it for a second time?
He should be working with the NFL or with college football if anything.
Because the USFL was working until a couple owners broke the informal salary cap and then wanted to go to the Fall in hopes of forcing a merger.
Call it a developmental league and you automatically cut the fan potential.
Yeah and if I start a Mom and Pop shop, having failed before and start again, should I expect to compete with Wal-Mart?
I admire his ambition but football has already reached a critical mass. If people don't watch the NFL, they'll watch college football and if they don't watch that, they'll watch high school or their kid's peewee league. They may even play it themselves.
It's not my money, he can do what he wants but its the definition of insanity.
Your analogy isn't quite on mark.
USFL was working in the spring. They were selling tickets and drawing a decent TV audience. Couple owners broke the cap and weren't making money in line with their spending. Teams like Memphis, Birmingham and Jacksonville were doing just fine.
The move to fall was the bailout plan of the overspenders.
WLAF had only 7 US teams and the silliness of sending teams off to Europe to play. Two of the teams in the US were solvent enough to buy in to the CFL. The CFL teams in the US did OK until college football and the NFL started then the crowds disappeared but even at the end San Antonio and Baltimore (relocating to Houston because the Browns were moving to Baltimore) were still viable and in the end the CFL pulled the plug and then awarded the new Montreal franchise to Baltimore's owner.
Not like they have been complete busts.
That's not really true. In the three years, they were losing $50M/season and attendance dropped by 10% in the final season. The ABC contract was also a sticking point as the low attendance cities, L.A. and Chicago were required to field teams. Chicago ended up with two owners in two seasons after the trade of rosters with the Wranglers, three if you count the league itself. Ratings were also 25% less in year three than in year two.
http://articles.latimes.com/1985-07-02/sports/sp-691_1_fall-play
RE: Potential XFL return - C2__ - 01-30-2018 09:58 PM
(01-30-2018 04:51 PM)arkstfan Wrote:(01-30-2018 03:41 PM)_C2_ Wrote:(01-30-2018 08:37 AM)arkstfan Wrote:(01-30-2018 03:14 AM)_C2_ Wrote: I just hate it. I can't stand it. Why be the latest to start a failed spring league? And why do it for a second time?
He should be working with the NFL or with college football if anything.
Because the USFL was working until a couple owners broke the informal salary cap and then wanted to go to the Fall in hopes of forcing a merger.
Call it a developmental league and you automatically cut the fan potential.
Yeah and if I start a Mom and Pop shop, having failed before and start again, should I expect to compete with Wal-Mart?
I admire his ambition but football has already reached a critical mass. If people don't watch the NFL, they'll watch college football and if they don't watch that, they'll watch high school or their kid's peewee league. They may even play it themselves.
It's not my money, he can do what he wants but its the definition of insanity.
Your analogy isn't quite on mark.
USFL was working in the spring. They were selling tickets and drawing a decent TV audience. Couple owners broke the cap and weren't making money in line with their spending. Teams like Memphis, Birmingham and Jacksonville were doing just fine.
The move to fall was the bailout plan of the overspenders.
WLAF had only 7 US teams and the silliness of sending teams off to Europe to play. Two of the teams in the US were solvent enough to buy in to the CFL. The CFL teams in the US did OK until college football and the NFL started then the crowds disappeared but even at the end San Antonio and Baltimore (relocating to Houston because the Browns were moving to Baltimore) were still viable and in the end the CFL pulled the plug and then awarded the new Montreal franchise to Baltimore's owner.
Not like they have been complete busts.
They were doing fine because of the novelty. Even the original XFL was a solid novelty that drew viewers in, unlike the UFL for example, which is already virtually forgotten. Had the USFL lasted a few more years, at best a few teams would have been absorbed into the NFL, which has had at least 26 teams for decades. Is that what the XFL is going for?
If they're trying to supplant the NFL, it's not gonna happen unless the league craters and dies somehow. Even if they take advantage of all the NFL's weaknesses, they have a limited ceiling . Part of it is that people only have so much time for so many activities and part of it is that people have decades of built in loyalties. No matter what annoys Oakland fans about the NFL or that they lost their team, how many are gonna become Oakland Extreme fans? It takes decades to build fan loyalty.
RE: Potential XFL return - Maize - 01-31-2018 07:07 AM
Meanwhile the NFL is on the verge of a lucrative new Thursday Night Deal with FOX...yes they are getting a pay increase for that package...
21st Century Fox Inc.’s FOXA, -0.72% FOX, -0.68% Fox Broadcasting is wrapping up a deal with the National Football League for rights to its Thursday night package of games, according to people familiar with the matter.
Under the terms of the agreement, Fox is expected to pay significantly more than the $450 million that current rights holders NBC CMCSA, +0.86% and CBS Corp. CBS, -0.56% paid this past season, the people said. An announcement could come as early as Wednesday morning.
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/fox-poised-to-win-rights-to-nfl-thursday-night-package-2018-01-31
RE: Potential XFL return - C2__ - 01-31-2018 11:01 AM
Thursday Night Football is overkill, except for a few weeks at the end of the season.