(04-02-2009 05:08 PM)CatsClaw Wrote:  

(04-02-2009 03:28 PM)ECMAN79 Wrote:  I guess I might as well throw my nickel into this conversation.......

does on-field results not mean anything at all? i mean......ECU, right this second as I'm typing, has a better football program (in terms of fan base and winning) then Memphis AND UCF. regarding facilities.....I'm sorry....I wasn't impressed with the Liberty Bowl or the surrounding area at all when I was there for the game vs. Kentucky in January. UCF's new stadium is nice.....it's new. ECU right now is planning on making their football stadium 50,000 seats for the start of the 2010 season. Construction would start after the '09 season ends. That depends on how Pirate Club donations go and if season tickets sell out again in 2009. Also the economy of course.

if you want a full update on ECU's investment in facilities (both Olympic and revenue)....click and read this from last week:

http://www.newsargus.com/sports/archives...facelifts/

You have my support for ECU and, from a football standpoint, they make the most sense. They have a solid tradition, a national name, a big time game atmosphere (which I compare to a SEC school), a new market, and a built in rival in West Virginia, and maybe even Louisville. And they have a BCS conference affiliation away from being able to hire a basketball coach that can make them a player on the basketball scene, with the Carolinas to recruit from. They also provide us with a team in the Tire Bowl area. We need to build and add strong fanbases in football. That's what other BCS conferences have, natural rivals (something the Big East refuses to promote in football outside of the Backyard Brawl), and bigger fanbases.

ECUMAN - I got nothing bad for ECU other than its market. If it purely for football, ECU is a no brainer over UCF and Memphis.

I think at end of the day BE presidents will hire some media consultant and do a TV contract projection before and after expansion. If the numbers make sense, I am sure they will expand. I don't see how staying at 8 is viable for long term.

(04-02-2009 08:23 AM)Native Georgian Wrote:  

Cubanbull Wrote:all it does it brings to BCS status another school to compete for Florida recruits that schools like USF,WV, Rutgers and Pitt have had an advantage with because of BCS status.

That's an interesting way to put it, because many supporters of the BCS have stated/implied that the BCS does not actually effect the competitive level of a football program, but rather it simply rewards the schools that were already "good" and freezes out the ones that were already "bad". I do applaud Cubanbull for acknowledging that "BCS status" is a commodity in and of itself, one that has a major impact on recruiting and, not coincidentally, every other aspect of college athletics.

You act like you just discovered some great revelation. Where have you heard anyone in the BCS, outside of BCS officials, imply that the BCS doesn't effect competitive level of football programs? That is stated all the time. It's part of the reason UC was unable to compete against Ohio State and, to a lesser extent, Kentucky.

(04-02-2009 05:16 PM)SF Husky Wrote:  

(04-02-2009 05:08 PM)CatsClaw Wrote:  

(04-02-2009 03:28 PM)ECMAN79 Wrote:  I guess I might as well throw my nickel into this conversation.......

does on-field results not mean anything at all? i mean......ECU, right this second as I'm typing, has a better football program (in terms of fan base and winning) then Memphis AND UCF. regarding facilities.....I'm sorry....I wasn't impressed with the Liberty Bowl or the surrounding area at all when I was there for the game vs. Kentucky in January. UCF's new stadium is nice.....it's new. ECU right now is planning on making their football stadium 50,000 seats for the start of the 2010 season. Construction would start after the '09 season ends. That depends on how Pirate Club donations go and if season tickets sell out again in 2009. Also the economy of course.

if you want a full update on ECU's investment in facilities (both Olympic and revenue)....click and read this from last week:

http://www.newsargus.com/sports/archives...facelifts/

You have my support for ECU and, from a football standpoint, they make the most sense. They have a solid tradition, a national name, a big time game atmosphere (which I compare to a SEC school), a new market, and a built in rival in West Virginia, and maybe even Louisville. And they have a BCS conference affiliation away from being able to hire a basketball coach that can make them a player on the basketball scene, with the Carolinas to recruit from. They also provide us with a team in the Tire Bowl area. We need to build and add strong fanbases in football. That's what other BCS conferences have, natural rivals (something the Big East refuses to promote in football outside of the Backyard Brawl), and bigger fanbases.

ECUMAN - I got nothing bad for ECU other than its market. If it purely for football, ECU is a no brainer over UCF and Memphis.

I think at end of the day BE presidents will hire some media consultant and do a TV contract projection before and after expansion. If the numbers make sense, I am sure they will expand. I don't see how staying at 8 is viable for long term.

You're 100% right, and that is what hurts ECU, the Big East media consultants don't think ECU's market is good enough. Think about it. If the Big East split the football schools would need to add major markets. That would put Temple and UCF as expansion targets along with Villanova and UMass (if they ever upgraded). If the Big East added a 9th member, again, market would play a huge part in deciding who gets another chunk of the pie.

(04-02-2009 05:22 PM)CatsClaw Wrote:  

(04-02-2009 05:16 PM)SF Husky Wrote:  

(04-02-2009 05:08 PM)CatsClaw Wrote:  

(04-02-2009 03:28 PM)ECMAN79 Wrote:  I guess I might as well throw my nickel into this conversation.......

does on-field results not mean anything at all? i mean......ECU, right this second as I'm typing, has a better football program (in terms of fan base and winning) then Memphis AND UCF. regarding facilities.....I'm sorry....I wasn't impressed with the Liberty Bowl or the surrounding area at all when I was there for the game vs. Kentucky in January. UCF's new stadium is nice.....it's new. ECU right now is planning on making their football stadium 50,000 seats for the start of the 2010 season. Construction would start after the '09 season ends. That depends on how Pirate Club donations go and if season tickets sell out again in 2009. Also the economy of course.

if you want a full update on ECU's investment in facilities (both Olympic and revenue)....click and read this from last week:

http://www.newsargus.com/sports/archives...facelifts/

You have my support for ECU and, from a football standpoint, they make the most sense. They have a solid tradition, a national name, a big time game atmosphere (which I compare to a SEC school), a new market, and a built in rival in West Virginia, and maybe even Louisville. And they have a BCS conference affiliation away from being able to hire a basketball coach that can make them a player on the basketball scene, with the Carolinas to recruit from. They also provide us with a team in the Tire Bowl area. We need to build and add strong fanbases in football. That's what other BCS conferences have, natural rivals (something the Big East refuses to promote in football outside of the Backyard Brawl), and bigger fanbases.

ECUMAN - I got nothing bad for ECU other than its market. If it purely for football, ECU is a no brainer over UCF and Memphis.

I think at end of the day BE presidents will hire some media consultant and do a TV contract projection before and after expansion. If the numbers make sense, I am sure they will expand. I don't see how staying at 8 is viable for long term.

You're 100% right, and that is what hurts ECU, the Big East media consultants don't think ECU's market is good enough. Think about it. If the Big East split the football schools would need to add major markets. That would put Temple and UCF as expansion targets along with Villanova and UMass (if they ever upgraded). If the Big East added a 9th member, again, market would play a huge part in deciding who gets another chunk of the pie.

I won't mind UMASS but they are a long way from D1A. If they do, they will screw over BCU which is not a bad thing. UCONN is already making inroad into many UMASS schools for recruits and have won quite a few recruiting battles over BCU in football there. UMASS is not far from UCONN and they have the desire to get up to UCONN's level. I don't think MASS market is that important because UCONN can cover MASS. I think the Philly market is important. Orlando is also a great market for the BE. What hurts ECU is the other 4 ACC schools. UNC almost got that state covered. Same with Memphis and UT. UCF is also a huge school where they can fight it out with other FLA schools for fans and support if they get the BCS tag.

You're right about UConn cutting into the Boston market. Boston College is treating UConn the way Ohio State is treating UC, stay away from them because they can dip into our recruiting trough.

(04-02-2009 06:08 PM)CatsClaw Wrote:  You're right about UConn cutting into the Boston market. Boston College is treating UConn the way Ohio State is treating UC, stay away from them because they can dip into our recruiting trough.

They can treat UCONN anyway they like. I could not careless if they never play UCONN. UCONN is already much bigger than BCU in the New England area. Football wise we had to catch up but both teams are pretty even now. All BCU has to do is have one horrible year and UCONN could overtake them in football as well. As for basketball, there are usually many more UCONN fans than BCU fans when UCONN used to play them up in Boston. That's all you need to know about their program.

Abig difference is that the state of North Carolina does not have a 500lb gorilla in football among the BCS schools. ECU could easily become the football school in that state since the others are basketball first.
Memphis has UT and will be tough to match. UCF would have the 1000LB gorilla in UF and then have to battle FSU and UM both are bigger obstacles than any school in North carolimna and now USF.
So yes there are plenty of division 1 athletes in florida but are there enough for 5 BCS schools and all the other schools that recruit there including BE schools to allow a TOP program to develop?
I dont think thats the case and adding UCF at this point would only hinder USF and those BE schools recruiting the state.
Think WV maybe not having gotten Sanders or Devine would have hurt them?
Think of those top florida athletes your school has gotten and take a few of them away.
Right now in my book the MOST important think for our league is to develop at least two teams that are prennial top 10 caliber. Right now WV has been close to that, no oneelse has been close.

As long as Doc Holliday is in Morgantown, WVU will have a pipeline in Florida. He was one of Florida's top recruiters before he came back to West Virginia...

thanks for all of the positive comments guys. yeah.....I know that the Greenville-New Bern-Washington TV market isn't a top 50 tv market.

the TV market situation was a hot topic back during the "raid days." Brian Bailey, sports director for the CBS affiliate in this market, wrote this article about it and how it affects ECU........

http://www.bonesville.net/articles/Brian...r_Desk.htm

as a nice simple summary from a different linked article:

"A small television market will likely be used as a mark against ECU, but that's one lame-duck argument Muse (our former Chancellor) can easily shoot down. Though New Bern and Washington are the only additional cities officially included in the Greenville market, the Pirates' viewing area essentially stretches from Wilmington to Virginia Beach, and from the Outer Banks to Raleigh."

http://www.bonesville.net/articles/Denny...tebook.htm

(04-02-2009 07:23 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  As long as Doc Holliday is in Morgantown, WVU will have a pipeline in Florida. He was one of Florida's top recruiters before he came back to West Virginia...

Thats not the point bit. The point Im making is that raising UCF to a BCS level will take away some of those athletes from our state that are now choosing BE schools.
In the last four years according to Rivals 98 florida players have signed with Big East schools not including USF. Thats almost 25 per year. Now imagine another competitor on the scene that can also offer BCS access and a BE schedule.
So as I said they would have a competitive program but some of it will be at BE schools expense.
In same time period Big East schools got ZERO players from Tennessee and FOUR from North Carolina. So you can see how neither of those teams would hurt Big East schools in those areas.

(04-02-2009 07:24 PM)ECMAN79 Wrote:  thanks for all of the positive comments guys. yeah.....I know that the Greenville-New Bern-Washington TV market isn't a top 50 tv market.

the TV market situation was a hot topic back during the "raid days." Brian Bailey, sports director for the CBS affiliate in this market, wrote this article about it and how it affects ECU........

http://www.bonesville.net/articles/Brian...r_Desk.htm

as a nice simple summary from a different linked article:

"A small television market will likely be used as a mark against ECU, but that's one lame-duck argument Muse (our former Chancellor) can easily shoot down. Though New Bern and Washington are the only additional cities officially included in the Greenville market, the Pirates' viewing area essentially stretches from Wilmington to Virginia Beach, and from the Outer Banks to Raleigh."

http://www.bonesville.net/articles/Denny...tebook.htm

It really goes beyond that even; I'd say Pirate football draws decent ratings from Charlotte to Greensboro, from Raleigh to Richmond.

The size of the city a school is in is a silly way to gauge the market the school brings to the table.

I like all three schools and think they would add to the BE for the recruiting inroads and fan base alone. The mid south, carolinas, and a Florida road trip every year! The BE would be swimming in recruits. There are 2 ways the BE can go. Basketball fanatics or basketball and football fanatics. I like the thought of getting more fla, mid south, and Carolina/GA recruits. I haven't even mentioned the bowl affiliations. Tire, liberty, champs. I for bringng all 3

As for ECU media market. It should be fine. It's not always the city that the school is in but who shows up to games and watches.

I like the BE as is currently, but if forced to expand to satisfy the cries for a 9th FB school, my vote is to bring in ECU as a FB only. They would accept a FB only membership. This would keep the reast of the conf. as is. They could become THE FB power in NC. They could easily pass the other bcs schools in nc. I like ECU's football potential. Also, no other current BE team would have any problem with ECU being added, unlike some other schools.

I think ECU would take a FB only, i.e. VT. As long as our other sports landed well and the goal would be to bring us in as all-sports. To reinterate, yes Greenvilles technical market is small, but we pull from the majority of NC and a lot of Tidewater VA and some SC. We are competing against 4 BCS schools, but hell its UNC, NCSU, Duke and WF. Right now it is WF and UNC. We could easily rule the state with BCS help.
The ultimate F.U. to the ACC would be bringing us to the BE.

Hypothetically, would ECU be able to park their other sports in the CAA again? Seems like a better fit but not sure if the CAA would be agreeable. Better choice than the SoCon or the Big South.

Good point Mike. The CAA could possibly work. I know our AD has a plan if we do get a football only invite to the BE - but we are not privy to that info. The CAA would help us out tremendously with travel expenses - and that would be sweet. We could also schedule 1 game a year with them to help them out w/ their football schedule. I have no idea if they would be open to that, but there are some old rivals still in the league, and it would be a good fit for most of our other sports IMHO.

Baseball would be hurt more than anything - but a good OOC schedule could help out. JMHO though.

ECU's AD had been pretty smart in his OCC scheduling to get national attention, his overtures towards Big East about accepting a football-only invite actually plays well to the staus quo of the league presidents and it satisfies the 9th football school that the coaches want. They are expanding thir stadium. So in my book they have put themselves in the lead should the BE decide to stay together (more than likely) but for the football schools to look for that 9th member

MichaelSavage Wrote:Hypothetically, would ECU be able to park their other sports in the CAA again?

Heh, if the price is right, they could work that issue out in about 15 minutes, max.

Going back to one of Catsclaw's comments from yesterday, I have never claimed it was a "revelation" to say that the BCS distorts ("effects") the competitive performance of college football teams. Quite the opposite: I think it is incredibly obvious to everyone that the BCS creates a tremendous competitive/financial barrier within Division I-A ("FBS"). Which is the basic, bottom-line reason for opposing it in the first place.

(04-01-2009 02:34 PM)TIGER-PAUL Wrote:  discuss

I do, you will hire another good coach.