It's not June until you have one of these.

If we need to add a 9th for scheduling purposes, my choice is ECU. I think they could be a potential VT type program in the BE. I can't see anyone in the BE having a problem with this choice, unlike some of the other options mentioned. It would be a nice bridge from USF to rest of conference. I like what they are doing football wise. Bring them in as a FB only for a while and see what happens. I'm not one of the ones who think we need to split/expand immediately, but if we do need to add one, then I think it will be ECU.

(06-21-2009 09:34 PM)Cubanbull Wrote:  Neil
I think all of us fans from UL, UC and USF realize that the rest of you are not gun ho on adding a CUSA team. But here is the deal, I think most of us feel that adding a 9th football member is something this league will have to do in the next 5 years. We do not like Memphis because we were in CUSA together. I prefer them because I think they bring to the`league more of what we need.

Which is fine. You will note my post talked about some Bulls fans being against UCF's entry into the league, not who they may or may not be for since their 1-A history is too short to be concerned with historical rivalries.

Quote:I dont have a problem with WV, Pitt and SU fan wanting another school, just be realistic dont tell me Penn state, BC or Maryland because yes I would choose them also but they are not realistic choices.

And my counterpoint to this is that any of the three C-USA targets are nearly as UNREALISTIC since to get any of them in will require both the BE football members agreeing on a member and then talking 4 of the other 8 institutions to vote for said member in OR agreeing on a member and having enough faith in that candidate that they are willing to split with the non BE football members in order to have them as a conference partner.

So while they may be more realistic in terms of THEM wanting to join with the BE football schools in some kind of BCS conference, the votes from those required or the desire to split to accommodate their entry do not appear to be anywhere near this.

Whereas the reverse is true for an ND, PSU, Miami, etc. The willingness for a favorable vote by all 16 teams or the willingness to split if necessary to gain them entry is there, but the institutions themselves are not willing.

Quote:As for the voting you stated above, well im not sold that it would go that way. I think USF would vote for ECU or Memphis. I think you might be surprised at how much support Memphis would get IF the schools decide to add a 9th member, because at the end once the schools decide they must add one, a concensus would be reached.

But the one's deciding this are the BE football presidents. And they don't seem to be anywhere close to deciding that a 9th football member is imperative, no less displaying any dissatisfaction whatsoever to the current status quo.

Do you really see Judy Genshaft taking sides with Memphis or ECU over South Florida's affiliation with the likes of ND, Georgetown, and Nova?

Quote:As I said lets see the new Liberty Bowl contract for the 2010 season, if they only sign CUSA for two years or the BE gets in then its a sign Memphis is coming.

Or it could mean what it would have meant 4 years ago when the Big East almost got the Liberty back then. Perhaps it will merely demonstrate the league decided to go after the Liberty full throttle (instead of half-heartedly not wanting to offend the Tire Bowl officials like the last time) and won out on merit alone?

Cheers,
Neil

What are "sond lyrics"?

I can't speak for all the fans of former CUSA programs that are now in The Big East, but I will say, if there was a program that the remaining members of The Big East considered a longtime rival and they wanted wouldn't they already been in The Big East Conference of UofL, UC and USF. My point is if ECU and UCF would have been better selections from the remaining members of The Big East's POV than why were they not approached first.
CJ

Quote:I have no problem with some Louisville and Cincinnati fans who would like to have Memphis in the Big East with them. I also have no problem with those Bulls fans who do not want UCF in the Big East with them.

I understand both points of view for wanting and for not wanting. I actually agree with both points of view from those fans perspective. I just wish there was more acknowledgment from some fellow Big Easts from Louisville, Cincinnati, and USF who support the inclusion of at least one former C-USA target that WVU, Pitt, SU, and RU fans may want someone different based upon THEIR old rivalries.

Especially considering the amount of C-USA fans who will subsequently flood these boards (because Heaven Forbid, SOME fans of WVU, SU, Pitt, or RU want someone other than THEIR team), not to mention true ACC fans, pseudo ACC fans, etc. that will also pitch in for a chuckle or two as well.

It's a double standard with some on this board and while it can all be summed up as human nature, I'd like to see posters acknowledge the fact that some of these Old Big East fans have a right to their opinions and favorites as well, or at the very least state their bias up front when posting, like you did in this post.

And that, hopefully, is the last time I need to say that again to any poster.

Again, people are trying to make this "former C-USA schools vs Big East schools" and that crap. If you want ECU or UCF that's fine. But I wish people would stop making it "Cincinnati, Louisville and South Florida vs us". There's a reason there is resistance to UCF coming in and it has nothing to do with old C-USA vs Big East and has more to do with USF being effected by ECU. And there are plenty of fans of old C-USA AND Big East schools that are fighting ECU. Again, this has NOTHING to do with "us vs them". Memphis just happened to be a hot button because they are old rivals of Cincinnati and Louisville. Memphis is not an old rival of South Florida, so I don't know how this is UC, UofL or USF vs Memphis. I really wish people would get over that.

Quote:And my counterpoint to this is that any of the three C-USA targets are nearly as UNREALISTIC since to get any of them in will require both the BE football members agreeing on a member and then talking 4 of the other 8 institutions to vote for said member in OR agreeing on a member and having enough faith in that candidate that they are willing to split with the non BE football members in order to have them as a conference partner.

That is insane logic. There is a far great chance of Memphis, UCF or ECU joining the Big East then Maryland, Notre Dame or Penn State simply because the former 3 would jump in a heart beat and the latter three, currently WOULD NOT jump to the Big East. This has nothing to do with votes. Lets just say that everyone can get the required votes, Penn State, Maryland or Notre Dame ain't coming. Period.

By the way, for the people who want to continue to support this "former C-USA schools only supporting the inclusion of C-USA schools and not giving a damn about what the Big East schools fellings" bullcrap, lets clear this garbage up, so we can move on.

1.)This is a MESSAGE BOARD. I'm guessing that the instituions have different feelings about this.

2.)"Louisville, Cincinnati and South Florida are only supporting UCF, Memphis and ECU because they're C-USA schools". For one, UCF was NEVER in C-USA at the same time as us, so that is crap. And Cincinnati and Louisville actually fought against ECU joining C-USA, so there is some bad blood there. USF's only beef, I'm guessing, is against having another Florida school join the conference.

3.)"Cincinnati, Louisville and USF would make life hell for old Big East schools if we wanted to add who we liked". Yeah, because Cincinnati and Louisville NEVER caved in to C-USA and allowed ECU to join. On a side note, Cincinnati and Louisville didn't ask for USF to join the Big East, the old guard Big East schools decided together to add them and THEN asked Cincinnati and Louisville. This is a fact because in the October of 2003 papers Jurich and Goin said they were asked about their feelings about the old guard adding USF and they said they were fine with it.

4.)"The former C-USA schools don't care who we want to add". The former C-USA schools couldn't give a damn who you add as long as it helps the conference. We just joined the party so we're enjoying the fun. Notice how the opinions of who to add and conference expansion is coming from the old Big East guard athletic officials like Pitt, West Virginia and UConn and NOT from the former C-USA schools like Cincinnati, Louisville and South Florida, and Mike Tranghese and the presidents were the ones who considered ECU and UCF back in 2003 BEFORE Cincinnati, South Florida and Louisville were invited, not us so don't get pissed off at us, get pissed at those schools.

Neil

Your logic is not entirely correct. I agree that there is not enough teams out there to go to 12. So I am thinking that if the BE teams realize that adding that 9th football member would keep this league together they might decide to do it. So the choice is not Memphis at the expense of GTown, Nova or ND.

I think ispretty obvious that this league has no interest in splitting at this time so I think the question becomes. Do we stay as we are or go to 18 teams and remain together for quite awhile.

So if that becomes the question then adding Memphis is NOT as unrealistic as adding PSU,or Maryland and BC

As a CUSA fan, the Memphis thread on the Memphis board, does not offend me. It is all part of college football today; that is the environment and it will continue into the future. In today's college football world, no one can stick their head in a hole and pretend changing winds are not blowing.

If CUSA gets kicked out of the Liberty, CUSA should press on with the UCF/Orlando Bowl proposal, now with CUSA #1 available....and try to set up as best as match as possible, preferably with a BCS opponent. An ACC, SEC, or Big-12 opponent would be nice.

(06-22-2009 05:49 AM)CatsClaw Wrote:  

Quote:And my counterpoint to this is that any of the three C-USA targets are nearly as UNREALISTIC since to get any of them in will require both the BE football members agreeing on a member and then talking 4 of the other 8 institutions to vote for said member in OR agreeing on a member and having enough faith in that candidate that they are willing to split with the non BE football members in order to have them as a conference partner.

That is insane logic. There is a far great chance of Memphis, UCF or ECU joining the Big East then Maryland, Notre Dame or Penn State simply because the former 3 would jump in a heart beat and the latter three, currently WOULD NOT jump to the Big East. This has nothing to do with votes. Lets just say that everyone can get the required votes, Penn State, Maryland or Notre Dame ain't coming. Period.

-- CC, I think you are taking what Neil said in the wrong way. Obviously UM and others would like to be in the BE, but is getting them in a political possibility? I think we would all agree that a split is not happening. Inviting everyone to MSG, the new lacrosse league and even the selection of the new commish all point to the league staying together (or in other words, the football schools like the current format over a split and add a CUSA/MAC format).

So, with that being said, what are the chances that UM or another CUSA school gets in. I think it is accurate that Memphis does not recieve support from ALL of the football schools at this time and perhaps none of the Catholic schools. The votes would be there for a traditional Eastern school, but where are the votes from UM going to come from?

Jackson

(06-21-2009 09:37 PM)gosports1 Wrote:  

(06-21-2009 08:29 PM)bluesox Wrote:  There are worse predictions for 2012 out there:

http://www.2012endofdays.org/general/Pre...r-2012.php


I like the memphis + st louis U concept if a split isn't happening.

GREAT Memphis may finally get into a bcs conference and the world comes to an end! Son of a B**ch

yep 12/21/2012.

compromise.... Buffalo.

I realize that the BB schools have not been keen on helping along the interests of the football side in times past, but they must understand that they ALL benefit by having a healthy BE football conference. The reality is that a 9th team is becoming more and more important considering how much $$$ is being shelled out for a guarantee game - especially if a 9th team could also bring another good bowl game to the BE lineup. I think the BB schools would ultimately understand the necessity of this, but of course it all comes down to what the $$$ will look like for all concerned. If the answer is to move to 18 to maintain the balance, so be it. But there needs to be an addition on the FB side.

UCF, ECU, or Memphis would all help BE; each school is different, each with different positives and negatives as true with any school. In the final analysis, all are, in a sense, equal.

In making an invite, I wouldn't factor in the bowl situation too strongly; these bowls fluctuate and the goodness in the Liberty Bowl is SEC in there; but one never knows what SEC will do....some other bowl offers them more money; they are gone from Liberty.

In making bowl decisions, if I were a BE fan, I would want that bowl in my geographic footprint as strongly as possible. In googling around, I didn't realize the International Bowl is important to BE because BE is sort of pushing/advertising for a Canadian audience. So, it appears BE has two bowls in its footprint, Meineke and International...plus eventually upgrading St. Pete bowl.

But, if one were to factor the bowl situation in heavily along with the invite, I think BE should look to UCF if they get their bowl up and running.

It wouldn't surprise me to see some bowls disappear; I think Hall of Fame in Birmingham was successful...then withered...and was moved to become eventually Champs Bowl in Orlando. Is that correct?

It wouldn't surprise me to some some bowls (in colder climates especially) eventually wither away as we know them--Emerald, Insight perhaps, Sun perhaps, Liberty perhaps, Music bowl perhaps...and end up in sparkling stadiums and/or warm climates.

It wouldn't surprise me, if Memphis and Liberty Bowl stay with CUSA for the next century, that eventually CUSA's #1 bowl will be in Florida or Texas and the the Liberty Bowl, while staying with CUSA, moves down the list.

As I said before. I think the writing is on the wall that the league is not going to split anytime soon. So the question becomes, How much will the football schools need that 9th team for scheduling purposes and bowl access. If the answer to that is yes its important to them and must be addressed, then the question becomes How do you go about it? football invite only or go to 18?
I think that IF the pressure for that 9th team becomes important then the teams will eventually come to a concensous candidate. It may not be everyone's first choice but they will agree on one and then it would be up to the BB schools whether to go to 18 or football only.
So the question is not whether the FB schools choose between GTown,Nova vs adding Memphis or ECU or UCF.
I agree with crazed the pressure to add that 9th school member will only increase with the increase in buying games for OCC. So sooner or later it will be addressed.

(06-21-2009 04:14 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(06-21-2009 03:58 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  The only way Memphis joins the Big East, and I say this only half-joking, is to make a $10-15 million offer to buy out DePaul's seat at the table.

It might not take that much. I think an equitable agreement would be for Memphis to pay DePaul's exit fee, and their entrance fee for admittance. DePaul would get their fee to enter another conference, and we'd be in a more stable configuration...

I halfway understand the animosity toward DePaul on this board (believe me - I have a laundry list of complaints about the athletic department's moves over the years), but there's no amount of money right now that would get DePaul to willingly give up its place in the Big East. It's in a conference with its two biggest historical rivals (Marquette and Notre Dame) along with being associated with very similar urban Catholic universities with Big East membership, which is what the school has wanted for decades. This goes beyond sports - DePaul looked at Big East membership as a validation that it was a Catholic institution with national impact. As a result, moving to the Atlantic 10 or a different conference for almost purely basketball purposes is something that DePaul's administration would scoff at immediately - I cannot emphasize enough how important getting into the Big East in the wake of the ACC raid was for DePaul. Maybe you can ask DePaul in about 10 years or so if the basketball team continues to have winless seasons and there will be a change of heart from the administration at that point. However, there's NFW that DePaul is going to throw in the towel after 5 years (which is what people on this board are essentially asking the school to do).

(06-22-2009 09:03 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(06-21-2009 04:14 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(06-21-2009 03:58 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  The only way Memphis joins the Big East, and I say this only half-joking, is to make a $10-15 million offer to buy out DePaul's seat at the table.

It might not take that much. I think an equitable agreement would be for Memphis to pay DePaul's exit fee, and their entrance fee for admittance. DePaul would get their fee to enter another conference, and we'd be in a more stable configuration...

I halfway understand the animosity toward DePaul on this board (believe me - I have a laundry list of complaints about the athletic department's moves over the years), but there's no amount of money right now that would get DePaul to willingly give up its place in the Big East. It's in a conference with its two biggest historical rivals (Marquette and Notre Dame) along with being associated with very similar urban Catholic universities with Big East membership, which is what the school has wanted for decades. This goes beyond sports - DePaul looked at Big East membership as a validation that it was a Catholic institution with national impact. As a result, moving to the Atlantic 10 or a different conference for almost purely basketball purposes is something that DePaul's administration would scoff at immediately - I cannot emphasize enough how important getting into the Big East in the wake of the ACC raid was for DePaul. Maybe you can ask DePaul in about 10 years or so if the basketball team continues to have winless seasons and there will be a change of heart from the administration at that point. However, there's NFW that DePaul is going to throw in the towel after 5 years (which is what people on this board are essentially asking the school to do).

I don't think anybody expects DePaul (or Marquette) to voluntarily leave the Big East.

The perfect solution from the BE FB standpoint would be for the league to agree to remove both schools to allow 2 all-sports members to come in and keep total at 16, but that of course seems an impossibility.

(Nothing against either of those schools, but in theory if anybody was going to be removed it would make sense to choose the 2 schools on the fringe of the conference geographically, and the 2 non-FB schools with the least amount of BE history and fewest ties.)

But again, I don't think that's within the realm of possibility.

If it DID ever happen for the sake of keeping the BE together and allowing the FB side to add 2, then Marquette and DePaul could reform the Great Midwest with a configuration like this:

Marquette
DePaul
Xavier
Dayton
St. Louis
Butler
Detroit
Creighton
Bradley
Drake

That would be an outstanding mid-west conference, would get multiple NCAA bids yearly, would be attractive from a TV standpoint, and would save on travel costs.

But I don't see the Big East BB schools being willing to jettison anybody at this point.

(06-22-2009 09:03 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(06-21-2009 04:14 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(06-21-2009 03:58 PM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  The only way Memphis joins the Big East, and I say this only half-joking, is to make a $10-15 million offer to buy out DePaul's seat at the table.

It might not take that much. I think an equitable agreement would be for Memphis to pay DePaul's exit fee, and their entrance fee for admittance. DePaul would get their fee to enter another conference, and we'd be in a more stable configuration...

I halfway understand the animosity toward DePaul on this board (believe me - I have a laundry list of complaints about the athletic department's moves over the years), but there's no amount of money right now that would get DePaul to willingly give up its place in the Big East. It's in a conference with its two biggest historical rivals (Marquette and Notre Dame) along with being associated with very similar urban Catholic universities with Big East membership, which is what the school has wanted for decades. This goes beyond sports - DePaul looked at Big East membership as a validation that it was a Catholic institution with national impact. As a result, moving to the Atlantic 10 or a different conference for almost purely basketball purposes is something that DePaul's administration would scoff at immediately - I cannot emphasize enough how important getting into the Big East in the wake of the ACC raid was for DePaul. Maybe you can ask DePaul in about 10 years or so if the basketball team continues to have winless seasons and there will be a change of heart from the administration at that point. However, there's NFW that DePaul is going to throw in the towel after 5 years (which is what people on this board are essentially asking the school to do).

And my guess is that the other Catholic institutions would rally behind DePaul.

Unless DePaul makes a commitment to improving, they may get their towel handed to them, without any need to throw it anywhere...