(02-07-2011 06:16 PM)flyingswoosh Wrote:  just wanted to point out that bosh held Blake Griffin to an 0-5 performance from the field the other night.

Might be meaningful; might not. I didn't see the game but it's pretty clear the league has figured out that the way to defend Griffin is to hammer him physically and send him to the line (where he's a terrible FS shooter). It also wears him out and the rest of his game suffers. LA Times has been writing about this for a couple of weeks now.

Is Carmello now the bigger douche? I wish ESPN/Sportscenter would shut up about him now.

(02-09-2011 07:40 PM)Brookes Owl Wrote:  

(02-07-2011 06:16 PM)flyingswoosh Wrote:  just wanted to point out that bosh held Blake Griffin to an 0-5 performance from the field the other night.

Might be meaningful; might not. I didn't see the game but it's pretty clear the league has figured out that the way to defend Griffin is to hammer him physically and send him to the line (where he's a terrible FS shooter). It also wears him out and the rest of his game suffers. LA Times has been writing about this for a couple of weeks now.

it certainly might not be meaningful. just pointing it out.

although over the past couple weeks he's averaging the same numbers he's averaged all season. Maybe boozer and stoudemire don't read the Times

also, can we just agree on the fact that the LA Times big revelation is hardly that? Being physical with a big man is not exactly some new discovery. What big man do you not have to be physical with? Let's also not make it sound so easy. I know you want to take away from Bosh's skills, but playing physical with Griffin is a lot easier said than done and will usually send you to the bench before slowing him down. I'm not trying to take one performance and say Bosh is some kind of born again defender, but let's at least give credit where credit's due.

(02-10-2011 08:32 AM)flyingswoosh Wrote:  

(02-09-2011 07:40 PM)Brookes Owl Wrote:  

(02-07-2011 06:16 PM)flyingswoosh Wrote:  just wanted to point out that bosh held Blake Griffin to an 0-5 performance from the field the other night.

Might be meaningful; might not. I didn't see the game but it's pretty clear the league has figured out that the way to defend Griffin is to hammer him physically and send him to the line (where he's a terrible FS shooter). It also wears him out and the rest of his game suffers. LA Times has been writing about this for a couple of weeks now.

it certainly might not be meaningful. just pointing it out.

although over the past couple weeks he's averaging the same numbers he's averaged all season. Maybe boozer and stoudemire don't read the Times

Well, season avg is 51% and since Jan 25 he's about 48%. Season avg is 22 pts but since 1/25 it's 18.

Not sure what you mean by "same."

And just as importantly, several teams who he walked over the first game of the season held him well under that number the second time around. Knicks just the latest example. Orlando, Atlanta, also recently.

(02-10-2011 09:56 AM)flyingswoosh Wrote:  also, can we just agree on the fact that the LA Times big revelation is hardly that? Being physical with a big man is not exactly some new discovery. What big man do you not have to be physical with? Let's also not make it sound so easy. I know you want to take away from Bosh's skills, but playing physical with Griffin is a lot easier said than done and will usually send you to the bench before slowing him down. I'm not trying to take one performance and say Bosh is some kind of born again defender, but let's at least give credit where credit's due.

Why are you being so defensive about this? I don't WANT to take away from Bosh - in my earliest posts I was simply repeating what many league observers have said (for the record, I agreed with you that Miami's team defense is good). And for his game against Griffin I said it might be meaningful. It appears that you want me to take one game as statistically significant, against an opponent who, while very good, is a rookie that the league may be showing to have some significant weaknesses. I just think that's crappy logic.

(02-10-2011 12:10 PM)Brookes Owl Wrote:  

(02-10-2011 09:56 AM)flyingswoosh Wrote:  also, can we just agree on the fact that the LA Times big revelation is hardly that? Being physical with a big man is not exactly some new discovery. What big man do you not have to be physical with? Let's also not make it sound so easy. I know you want to take away from Bosh's skills, but playing physical with Griffin is a lot easier said than done and will usually send you to the bench before slowing him down. I'm not trying to take one performance and say Bosh is some kind of born again defender, but let's at least give credit where credit's due.

Why are you being so defensive about this? I don't WANT to take away from Bosh - in my earliest posts I was simply repeating what many league observers have said (for the record, I agreed with you that Miami's team defense is good). And for his game against Griffin I said it might be meaningful. It appears that you want me to take one game as statistically significant, against an opponent who, while very good, is a rookie that the league may be showing to have some significant weaknesses. I just think that's crappy logic.

i didn't mean for it to sound defensive. my fault

and no, that one game is not statistically significant.

significant weaknesses? we have very different definitions of significant

(02-10-2011 12:03 PM)Brookes Owl Wrote:  

(02-10-2011 08:32 AM)flyingswoosh Wrote:  

(02-09-2011 07:40 PM)Brookes Owl Wrote:  

(02-07-2011 06:16 PM)flyingswoosh Wrote:  just wanted to point out that bosh held Blake Griffin to an 0-5 performance from the field the other night.

Might be meaningful; might not. I didn't see the game but it's pretty clear the league has figured out that the way to defend Griffin is to hammer him physically and send him to the line (where he's a terrible FS shooter). It also wears him out and the rest of his game suffers. LA Times has been writing about this for a couple of weeks now.

it certainly might not be meaningful. just pointing it out.

although over the past couple weeks he's averaging the same numbers he's averaged all season. Maybe boozer and stoudemire don't read the Times

Well, season avg is 51% and since Jan 25 he's about 48%. Season avg is 22 pts but since 1/25 it's 18.

Not sure what you mean by "same."

And just as importantly, several teams who he walked over the first game of the season held him well under that number the second time around. Knicks just the latest example. Orlando, Atlanta, also recently.

didn't he shoot 10-17 against the Knicks? Not exactly a bad game

Also, you're cherry picking the numbers a little. If we go one game further, it'd add a 10-16, 30 pt, 18 rebound performance. I'm not trying to start an argument about another PF, but let's just remember that Eric Gordon their best pure scorer) hasn't played since the 22nd; the first game he missed was the 25th, which is where you started looking at Griffin's recent numbers. I realize Gordon isn't exactly a pass first guard, but his scoring definitely takes some pressure off Griffin and makes it more difficult for teams to double team him, if that's what they're doing.

I wish the Thunder could have a big man slump like this

(02-10-2011 12:49 PM)flyingswoosh Wrote:  

(02-10-2011 12:10 PM)Brookes Owl Wrote:  

(02-10-2011 09:56 AM)flyingswoosh Wrote:  also, can we just agree on the fact that the LA Times big revelation is hardly that? Being physical with a big man is not exactly some new discovery. What big man do you not have to be physical with? Let's also not make it sound so easy. I know you want to take away from Bosh's skills, but playing physical with Griffin is a lot easier said than done and will usually send you to the bench before slowing him down. I'm not trying to take one performance and say Bosh is some kind of born again defender, but let's at least give credit where credit's due.

Why are you being so defensive about this? I don't WANT to take away from Bosh - in my earliest posts I was simply repeating what many league observers have said (for the record, I agreed with you that Miami's team defense is good). And for his game against Griffin I said it might be meaningful. It appears that you want me to take one game as statistically significant, against an opponent who, while very good, is a rookie that the league may be showing to have some significant weaknesses. I just think that's crappy logic.

i didn't mean for it to sound defensive. my fault

and no, that one game is not statistically significant.

significant weaknesses? we have very different definitions of significant

I said "may be." From mid November to mid/late January his scoring average was over 25 ppg. I can take shorter stretches where it was even higher. If his average from late Jan to the end of the season stays where it is (i.e. about 18 points) or continues the trend to go even lower, you don't think that's significant? You don't think a FT percentage around 60 is a significant weakness?

(02-10-2011 12:54 PM)flyingswoosh Wrote:  

(02-10-2011 12:03 PM)Brookes Owl Wrote:  

(02-10-2011 08:32 AM)flyingswoosh Wrote:  

(02-09-2011 07:40 PM)Brookes Owl Wrote:  

(02-07-2011 06:16 PM)flyingswoosh Wrote:  just wanted to point out that bosh held Blake Griffin to an 0-5 performance from the field the other night.

Might be meaningful; might not. I didn't see the game but it's pretty clear the league has figured out that the way to defend Griffin is to hammer him physically and send him to the line (where he's a terrible FS shooter). It also wears him out and the rest of his game suffers. LA Times has been writing about this for a couple of weeks now.

it certainly might not be meaningful. just pointing it out.

although over the past couple weeks he's averaging the same numbers he's averaged all season. Maybe boozer and stoudemire don't read the Times

Well, season avg is 51% and since Jan 25 he's about 48%. Season avg is 22 pts but since 1/25 it's 18.

Not sure what you mean by "same."

And just as importantly, several teams who he walked over the first game of the season held him well under that number the second time around. Knicks just the latest example. Orlando, Atlanta, also recently.

didn't he shoot 10-17 against the Knicks? Not exactly a bad game

Also, you're cherry picking the numbers a little. If we go one game further, it'd add a 10-16, 30 pt, 18 rebound performance. I'm not trying to start an argument about another PF, but let's just remember that Eric Gordon their best pure scorer) hasn't played since the 22nd; the first game he missed was the 25th, which is where you started looking at Griffin's recent numbers. I realize Gordon isn't exactly a pass first guard, but his scoring definitely takes some pressure off Griffin and makes it more difficult for teams to double team him, if that's what they're doing.

I wish the Thunder could have a big man slump like this

No argument here - I'm definitely cherry picking (just as you cherry picked the Heat game for Bosh). The key to my picking, though, is that I don't have an end point because the trend is through his latest games. If the current trend continues he's got some issues. If he turns it around that's great. BTW, I love the guy - he's great to watch and the Clippers need something good (despite the fact that their owner doesn't deserve it).

Back to the reason we're on this tangent: Same thing applies to Bosh. If we can see him consistently holding good players to low percentages the Heat are in great shape. I don't know if he's there yet.

(02-10-2011 01:14 PM)Brookes Owl Wrote:  

(02-10-2011 12:54 PM)flyingswoosh Wrote:  

(02-10-2011 12:03 PM)Brookes Owl Wrote:  

(02-10-2011 08:32 AM)flyingswoosh Wrote:  

(02-09-2011 07:40 PM)Brookes Owl Wrote:  Might be meaningful; might not. I didn't see the game but it's pretty clear the league has figured out that the way to defend Griffin is to hammer him physically and send him to the line (where he's a terrible FS shooter). It also wears him out and the rest of his game suffers. LA Times has been writing about this for a couple of weeks now.

it certainly might not be meaningful. just pointing it out.

although over the past couple weeks he's averaging the same numbers he's averaged all season. Maybe boozer and stoudemire don't read the Times

Well, season avg is 51% and since Jan 25 he's about 48%. Season avg is 22 pts but since 1/25 it's 18.

Not sure what you mean by "same."

And just as importantly, several teams who he walked over the first game of the season held him well under that number the second time around. Knicks just the latest example. Orlando, Atlanta, also recently.

didn't he shoot 10-17 against the Knicks? Not exactly a bad game

Also, you're cherry picking the numbers a little. If we go one game further, it'd add a 10-16, 30 pt, 18 rebound performance. I'm not trying to start an argument about another PF, but let's just remember that Eric Gordon their best pure scorer) hasn't played since the 22nd; the first game he missed was the 25th, which is where you started looking at Griffin's recent numbers. I realize Gordon isn't exactly a pass first guard, but his scoring definitely takes some pressure off Griffin and makes it more difficult for teams to double team him, if that's what they're doing.

I wish the Thunder could have a big man slump like this

No argument here - I'm definitely cherry picking (just as you cherry picked the Heat game for Bosh). The key to my picking, though, is that I don't have an end point because the trend is through his latest games. If the current trend continues he's got some issues. If he turns it around that's great. BTW, I love the guy - he's great to watch and the Clippers need something good (despite the fact that their owner doesn't deserve it).

Back to the reason we're on this tangent: Same thing applies to Bosh. If we can see him consistently holding good players to low percentages the Heat are in great shape. I don't know if he's there yet.

i completely agree with all of that. the problem is, i really don't watch Bosh enough to give you an analysis of his defense or possible lack thereof. He could be a terrible defender overall, he could be weak one-on-one, but great as a team defender like Ray Allen, or he could've turned into an excellent one on one defender (although i doubt it). I definitely cherry picked that one game, but i want to make it clear that absolutely nothing can be taken from it. I was simply pointing it out as a good defensive game.

As for Griffin, i firmly believe that Gordon's absence is hurting his numbers.

has Carmello's saga derailed this thread?

Why leave the Nuggets to go to the Nets. I could see the Knicks but dude.... you haven't done enough in the league( like getting Denver to the Western Finals or the Finals like LeBron did with the Cavs). The Knicks would have to dump so many contracts to get you there I wonder if it would be a wise move for them for "the future" purposes.

(02-19-2011 10:16 PM)PirateTreasureNC Wrote:  has Carmello's saga derailed this thread?

Why leave the Nuggets to go to the Nets. I could see the Knicks but dude.... you haven't done enough in the league( like getting Denver to the Western Finals or the Finals like LeBron did with the Cavs). The Knicks would have to dump so many contracts to get you there I wonder if it would be a wise move for them for "the future" purposes.

ha, Melo must be really pathetic, because when I saw that you left a new comment, i knew it had to be about him.

(02-19-2011 10:52 PM)flyingswoosh Wrote:  

(02-19-2011 10:16 PM)PirateTreasureNC Wrote:  has Carmello's saga derailed this thread?

Why leave the Nuggets to go to the Nets. I could see the Knicks but dude.... you haven't done enough in the league( like getting Denver to the Western Finals or the Finals like LeBron did with the Cavs). The Knicks would have to dump so many contracts to get you there I wonder if it would be a wise move for them for "the future" purposes.

ha, Melo must be really pathetic, because when I saw that you left a new comment, i knew it had to be about him.

lulz.


But if I had co-head lined the thread then it might be to much douchery

Bosh 1-18. That's bad. Really bad. Bet LBJ and Wade don't go to him in the clutch.

(02-25-2011 10:20 AM)stratecashomie Wrote:  Bosh 1-18. That's bad. Really bad. Bet LBJ and Wade don't go to him in the clutch.

Just like his one game against Griffin was just that, so is this. He had a terrible game, but so does every player at one point or another

WAY more important than one game for Bosh yesterday was the Celtics-Thunder trade. The Celtics just made it easier for the Heat (or the Bulls) to win the East. And assuming Perkins gets back to health reasonably quickly, the Thunder are now a complete team with a real inside game. If the Lakers weren't in trouble already, they sure are now.

(02-25-2011 01:42 PM)Brookes Owl Wrote:  WAY more important than one game for Bosh yesterday was the Celtics-Thunder trade. The Celtics just made it easier for the Heat (or the Bulls) to win the East. And assuming Perkins gets back to health reasonably quickly, the Thunder are now a complete team with a real inside game. If the Lakers weren't in trouble already, they sure are now.

i was too happy to mention that awesome news. My dad (who's a Celtics fan) called me at work yesterday and said "Ainge might've just given you guys the title." I can't believe we were lucky enough to get Perkins. We also got Nazr Mohammed, which is another upgrade. At the very least, he's a big body. but we still need James Harden to get better. The starting lineup has 3 players who don't have to be guarded. That's the only thing we lose by getting rid of Jeff Green. But overall i'm ecstatic about this. I fear the mavs, lakers and spurs less than I did on Wednesday. Unfortunately, the Gerald Wallace trade makes me fear the Blazers a little. If they get the 5 seed, we might have to play them in the 1st round. That scares me a bit

hey Owl, do you wanna hit up the NBA board and try to pump some life into it. It showed signs 2 or 3 years ago, but nothing ever materialized

(02-25-2011 03:08 PM)flyingswoosh Wrote:  hey Owl, do you wanna hit up the NBA board and try to pump some life into it. It showed signs 2 or 3 years ago, but nothing ever materialized

Nahh, this thread's more than enough for me. Believe it or not, I'm a Lakers fan but not really an NBA fan. So I'll pay attention to Los Angeles and other teams that are in contention. But it's too hard to listen/watch these guys "show my skills" night after night. I really lament that so much of pro basketball has gotten away from what I would consider true team play. It's just not as much fun anymore. (And I TOTALLY include the Lakers/Kobe in that assessment.)