(07-04-2010 10:58 AM)GPSKnight Wrote:  Villanova has no football fan base, they do not have a stadium, they do not have tradition, and they do not carry the Philly market.

Look at how UConn's fanbase jumped when upgraded and added to the Big East. The Stadium is an issue but doesn't mean it can't be solved. When you are talking about 30-40,000 seat stadiums it isn't the same as 60,000 to 100,000 seat ones. Tradition, I'd say Villanova is a better known and more respected university than any of the wannabees. They have been consistently good at their division of football which is more than the wannabees can generally say. "Carry"--what does this mean exactly. If they get BE football on and talked about in Philly--the #4 market, this is better than just about any of the other adds you could make. Look at Rutgers and what their success did in NYC for example of what could be, as opposed to some far off smaller market programs for the most part.

(07-04-2010 10:55 AM)buckaineer Wrote:  

(07-04-2010 10:48 AM)dgrace4cards Wrote:  Oooooohhhh, Philly is #4......Chicago is #3 has that treated Depaul's success in our stronger sport? Get off the Philly market for Nova and football it doesn't add up. I don't have any problem adding Nova....if they are the 3rd or 4th team of a package of programs. They can't be the 9th team answer by themself. PERIOD!

Basically you want to buy an offspring penny stock of one of your portfolio stable stocks vs one that has already shown stability and progress into the couple dollar range

Chicago is a bb only market. It hasn't hurt the bb contract. If Philly was made a football market then you've added the largest potential advertising market, and/or solidified the Philly market more for your own network.

Why can't Villanova be the 9th team?

They have a solid football program, not worse than the eastern non BCS programs out there to possibly add. They don't add teams to the overall conference. They don't take away from the bb contracts and may actually be able to add or at least hold steady in football, which the other teams do not do. They also don't hurt the non revenue sports as they are already a part.

Do you know that.....I know it hasn't helped.

Just like Nova won't move the needle at all for football in Philly right away.....so you guys are defending the same point I am with a lessor product, only difference is they are already inhouse, however the pluses/minuses of being inhouse don't add up compared to the more worthy expansion teams.

(07-04-2010 11:05 AM)dgrace4cards Wrote:  

(07-04-2010 10:55 AM)buckaineer Wrote:  

(07-04-2010 10:48 AM)dgrace4cards Wrote:  Oooooohhhh, Philly is #4......Chicago is #3 has that treated Depaul's success in our stronger sport? Get off the Philly market for Nova and football it doesn't add up. I don't have any problem adding Nova....if they are the 3rd or 4th team of a package of programs. They can't be the 9th team answer by themself. PERIOD!

Basically you want to buy an offspring penny stock of one of your portfolio stable stocks vs one that has already shown stability and progress into the couple dollar range

Chicago is a bb only market. It hasn't hurt the bb contract. If Philly was made a football market then you've added the largest potential advertising market, and/or solidified the Philly market more for your own network.

Why can't Villanova be the 9th team?

They have a solid football program, not worse than the eastern non BCS programs out there to possibly add. They don't add teams to the overall conference. They don't take away from the bb contracts and may actually be able to add or at least hold steady in football, which the other teams do not do. They also don't hurt the non revenue sports as they are already a part.

Do you know that.....I know it hasn't helped.

Just like Nova won't move the needle at all for football in Philly right away.....so you guys are defending the same point I am with a lessor product, only difference is they are already inhouse, however the pluses/minuses of being inhouse don't add up compared to the more worthy expansion teams.

The more worthy expansion teams. Maryland, BC, PSU, UVA--you mean the more worthy teams like that, or TCU, possibly Houston. The more worthy expansion teams like this. You can't mean the usual southern suspects.

(07-04-2010 10:58 AM)GPSKnight Wrote:  Villanova has no football fan base, they do not have a stadium, they do not have tradition, and they do not carry the Philly market.

ALL of which are SOLID reasons to go ahead & add them ASAP...

(07-04-2010 10:58 AM)GPSKnight Wrote:  Villanova has no football fan base, they do not have a stadium, they do not have tradition, and they do not carry the Philly market.

Villanova has a very large uphill battle to make this happen. I just don't see it. They have no state money, no influence with the state to play in the Linc. Keep in my that Temple has exclusive rights to that stadium and the only reason they are playing there is because the state forced the Eagles to accept them as a tenant before cutting the check for construction. Now Villanova, a private school, is going to convince the Eagles to let them be a tenant...laughable...

Villanova also has no football fanbase...2,700 for a national quarterfinal playoff game and 4,100 for their national semi-final game on their own campus...

The money issue and facilities issue is big too. They don't have a football practice facility and Ambler, PA will never let them build a stadium.

I just don't see it happening...especially in the near future...

A big piece of this is the networks.

The South is a saturated market for college football. When the Big East brought in Louisville, they brought in a very good football program in a state where the SEC was weak in football.

With Cincinnati, they brought in a program from a very large state that had only one BCS team. There was room for expansion.

USF was added only later after the BC defection. They were shoehorning one more team into the huge Florida market. Made sense. I don't know that it makes sense to push their luck one more time.

The point is that the networks already have big contracts in the markets of all the usual suspects down South where there are more college football programs per capita than anywhere else in the country. Why do networks want to compete to pay money for an expanded league to introduce competition into a region where they already have an enormous financial investment? Not good business. That's what the usual suspects from CUSA would accomplish.

The most fertile, untapped market in college football is in the Northeast. That's what the networks will pay for. The Big East has to grow itself in that region, which is problematic because there are no ready made teams there.

I'm not in favor of Villanova, but I understand why the Big East would love to have another viable program in the Northeast - especially one that would not compete with existing Big East members.

personally id like to see both nova and gtown upgrade...i dont see why with the money those programs have they cant be as successful as uconn and usf. plus theyd help fb's academic ratings and in gtowns case throw some powerful alumni support behind be fb...pipe dream i know

(07-04-2010 11:10 AM)Den Wrote:  

(07-04-2010 10:58 AM)GPSKnight Wrote:  Villanova has no football fan base, they do not have a stadium, they do not have tradition, and they do not carry the Philly market.

ALL of which are SOLID reasons to go ahead & add them ASAP...

You guys have missed the point of the article.

It is the ARRIVAL OF OLIVER LUCK that is the news there, not only for WVU but for the Conference as a whole.

He actually knows what he is doing and will demand more from our ludicrous Conference Office.

You see, his mere arrival has calmed the expansion waters.

Frankly I think Georgetown has more upside than 'nova. But people have Philadelphia on the brain...

(07-04-2010 11:14 AM)krux Wrote:  personally id like to see both nova and gtown upgrade...i dont see why with the money those programs have they cant be as successful as uconn and usf. plus theyd help fb's academic ratings and in gtowns case throw some powerful alumni support behind be fb...pipe dream i know

Even the THREAT of adding G-town may help push Maryland our way if we can make the numbers work now that YOw-sers is leaving. It would take a deal with the Domers short of full membership, but if one can be reached I still think pilfering MD and BC is doable.

If they won't come then the Hoyas should be encouraged to seriously think about adding the DC market to BEAST football.

Look, BC is a small Catholic school that has a good football program. Nova used to have one. Gtown COULD have one, esp. with Tags on board.

Heck Howie Long alone could prolly fund a Nova program from his commercail revenues alone!

(07-04-2010 11:26 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  I swear Terry Holland looks smarter and smarter by the day. The Nova move would make perfect sense in that it keeps the status quo and solves the football scheduling issue.

You seem to think this was TH's idea.

The option for Nova to upgrade was put on the table all the way back to when WVU and RU were added for football. Both UConn and Nova had the option to upgrade.. UConn took it; Nova passed.

Now the BEAST sees an easy for the league out of the 9th team issue and is encouraging them to have a rethink.

TH may have good sources, but he did not invent this idea. Still, he is an excellent AD.

Does this really need to be explained?? Villanova is attractive because it prevents anyone from being added to the basketball conference. Remember, 50% of the conference only cares about Big East basketball, so all you need is 1 out of 8 on the football side to think this is a good idea and you have a majority. It also sticks a Catholic agent into the football board room so that the non-football side will know what's going on. It's the best possible outcome for the Big East members who aren't in the football conference.

The upside for the football side is the 9th member gets them out of those seasons where the conference sticks them with 4 conference road games but only 3 home games. It is extremely difficult and expensive to schedule 7 home game seasons when you have to find 4 non-conference home games with only 1 non-conference road game. None of the half of the Big East that got only 3 home conference games played more than 6 home games total last season. That has a definite dollar value.

The issue of market size and on-field quality is completely secondary.

Villanova is a joke. Even more reason for backchannel communications to leave this hodge podge.

Bringing up the catholic issue is one where perhaps ND could step in and help. They certainly have major influence in regards to catholics and the catholic heirarchy. Perhaps they could assist a catholic bb school or schools in achieving finances necessary to build a stadium and to acquire a place to build it.

(07-04-2010 11:14 AM)krux Wrote:  personally id like to see both nova and gtown upgrade...i dont see why with the money those programs have they cant be as successful as uconn and usf. plus theyd help fb's academic ratings and in gtowns case throw some powerful alumni support behind be fb...pipe dream i know

I'd be up for that as well, just add two of the usual suspects in addition to Nova and Gtown to make all work out.

(07-04-2010 11:35 AM)LastMinuteman Wrote:  Does this really need to be explained?? Villanova is attractive because it prevents anyone from being added to the basketball conference. Remember, 50% of the conference only cares about Big East basketball, so all you need is 1 out of 8 on the football side to think this is a good idea and you have a majority. It also sticks a Catholic agent into the football board room so that the non-football side will know what's going on. It's the best possible outcome for the Big East members who aren't in the football conference.

The upside for the football side is the 9th member gets them out of those seasons where the conference sticks them with 4 conference road games but only 3 home games. It is extremely difficult and expensive to schedule 7 home game seasons when you have to find 4 non-conference home games with only 1 non-conference road game. None of the half of the Big East that got only 3 home conference games played more than 6 home games total last season. That has a definite dollar value.

The issue of market size and on-field quality is completely secondary.

With all do respect to those good points made, as an already successful football program in $$$ be it a good team and bowl or no bowl, UL is I'm sure looking for bigger and better/more stable expansion scenarios than those you made above. I'm sure WVU, Rutgers, USF are thinking the same thing.

The biggest problem with expansion in the BE is that the basketball schools don't want to give up their voting bloc. Obviously a 9th football member would change the balance of power, so even if Villanova couldn't compete in I-A and nobody would show up to their games, which is pretty much the reason Nova doesn't want to jump, the basketball schools want to use this opportunity to prevent further expansion and dilution of their power. The sooner the football members wake up and realize that they need to get away from the basketball leeches, the better.

It's really a shame that the BE brass doesn't realize how far ahead Temple is of Nova in terms of BCS football readiness.

(07-04-2010 09:00 AM)WVUeer Wrote:  EsayemOwl, Qwerty1 and Wilkie........This one is for you.

Yeah, another source with the name 'a source'. Wait, we are talking about the WV Gazette, so that's OK. Sure, believe what you'd like. I'll stand by my logic that Villanova will not upgrade to a BCS level of football in the foreseeable future because of home stadium feasibility. I think the Villanova alumni would step up and fund this thing in a heartbeat if it were feasible. But it's not as long as Temple controls the Linc on Saturdays. The mention of Franklin Field is laughable. Temple got kicked out, in part, because they played some home games at that facility. And does Penn reschedule to Villanova's field demand?

You evidently have a love affair with Villanova. Good for you. But you're not thinking this out in real terms nor is the WV Gazette even with their rock solid sources.

(07-04-2010 10:29 AM)BJUnklFkr Wrote:  

(07-04-2010 10:22 AM)buckaineer Wrote:  

(07-04-2010 09:34 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  While an interesting thought, one has to ask, how does adding an FCS school add anymore "value" to the conference than adding UCF, ECU or Memphis. If anything I believe it adds less. Adding Villanova adds the college football hotbed that is Philadelphia. Is that what we are saying here? I would submit that what few college football fans there are in Philly already follow Pitt, Penn State or Rutgers. If The Big East already counts Milwaukee, Chicago, New York and Providence as markets for Big East football in regard to a BEN, isn't Philly already counted as a market?

The truth is adding Villanova would add another hand in the pot, without much benefit to the conference, I don't care how D2 championhips they have won. I would rather have another market hungry for BCS football then trying to grow another program.
CJ

Philadelphia may not be fully included now as a market in regards to the Big East football contract. BB and football are seperate. Villanova will not take from the Big East bb contract, they are already a part of it. Adding Philadelphia for football contracts is actually better than any other school that could be added as a ninth member as they are the #4 market.

That's an excellent point Buckaineer. Since the BB contract is more than the FB, and will probably continue to be, the BE schools would want to keep that half of it strong as possible.

Moot point anyway, since no way, no how, Nova will ever upgrade.

Basketball isn't what needs upgraded financially it's football. Villanova would help with basketball money but we will always be 7 to 10 million dollars behind other conferences if football isn't addressed.