(12-26-2010 07:13 PM)CatsClaw Wrote:  In fact, since people won't take my posts seriously and actually read it, I'll give you one of the clues that I saw over a month ago that hinted at this happening:


http://www.cowboyaltitude.com/2010/10/26...t-occuring

Renu Khator the President of the University of Houston tweeted on Monday that more conference expansion/realignment could be in the works. Khator has been attending the Conference USA Board meeting when the report came out. The fact that this came from an actual University official is pretty amazing. Chip Brown must be kicking himself for not breaking the news on this one.

There are no specific details in the tweet so it leaves plenty to the imagination. The last big news about realignment was the Big East having some interest in TCU. It has been pretty quiet after that news broke last month. Would Khator tweet about schools within her own conference or even Houston itself switching conferences?

There is a LOT more to that then meets the eye by the way.

Dr. Hitt, UCF's president attended those same meetings and what was meant by that, which was also in the Florida Today article, is that there is a lot of movement to combine CUSA and the MWC.

(12-26-2010 07:28 PM)Sir Galahad Wrote:  

(12-26-2010 07:13 PM)CatsClaw Wrote:  In fact, since people won't take my posts seriously and actually read it, I'll give you one of the clues that I saw over a month ago that hinted at this happening:


http://www.cowboyaltitude.com/2010/10/26...t-occuring

Renu Khator the President of the University of Houston tweeted on Monday that more conference expansion/realignment could be in the works. Khator has been attending the Conference USA Board meeting when the report came out. The fact that this came from an actual University official is pretty amazing. Chip Brown must be kicking himself for not breaking the news on this one.

There are no specific details in the tweet so it leaves plenty to the imagination. The last big news about realignment was the Big East having some interest in TCU. It has been pretty quiet after that news broke last month. Would Khator tweet about schools within her own conference or even Houston itself switching conferences?

There is a LOT more to that then meets the eye by the way.

Dr. Hitt, UCF's president attended those same meetings and what was meant by that, which was also in the Florida Today article, is that there is a lot of movement to combine CUSA and the MWC.

Actually that's not the only thing. Lets just say that Houston has some serious connections in the Big East and that came to light back in September and October.

Well as a UCF fan I hope that Houston gets in they are a deserving school. How does their academics compare to the Big East?

(12-26-2010 06:22 PM)CatsClaw Wrote:  

(12-26-2010 06:17 PM)saxamoophone Wrote:  Cat,

Nobody in Flordia cares about the Big East (outset Tampa). Houston nor UCf gives you market domination in a state. At least UCF only has one pro team and UF to really worry about..... But it's a long battle eiter way for relevance.

I've said this before, the Big East doesn't care about market domination, all they need is a share of the market, and they could get that in Texas with Houston and TCU. They already have a share in Florida and they could get further into the state, now the Big East probably wants to focus on Texas.

The question really becomes what gives you a greater share, TCU + Houston or UCF + USF?

Also, why should TCU support Houston over UCF? A) they really don't have a vote and B) why wouldn't they "USF" block them?

(12-26-2010 08:05 PM)saxamoophone Wrote:  

(12-26-2010 06:22 PM)CatsClaw Wrote:  

(12-26-2010 06:17 PM)saxamoophone Wrote:  Cat,

Nobody in Flordia cares about the Big East (outset Tampa). Houston nor UCf gives you market domination in a state. At least UCF only has one pro team and UF to really worry about..... But it's a long battle eiter way for relevance.

I've said this before, the Big East doesn't care about market domination, all they need is a share of the market, and they could get that in Texas with Houston and TCU. They already have a share in Florida and they could get further into the state, now the Big East probably wants to focus on Texas.

The question really becomes what gives you a greater share, TCU + Houston or UCF + USF?

Also, why should TCU support Houston over UCF? A) they really don't have a vote and B) why wouldn't they "USF" block them?

All this USF blocking stuff is laughable. The state of Florida and BOR would have a field day with USF if they stopped another state school from getting the ability to generate millions of dollars. This is not the State of Alabama blocking UAB from getting a coach, this is the largest school in the State of Florida. While USF may not want UCF in the Big East, the back lash that would come from the State Legislature and the BOR would be much worse than anything UCF could do to USF on the field of play.

All this BS talk about USF blocking UCF is just freaking ridiculous. IF the Big East feels that UCF is the best candidate they will be invited if not they will not. Of course Im sure that if UCF does not get invited we will have UCF fans over here blaming USF and our president first and then theyll be saying they are too good for the Big East and will be joining the SEC.

Good points! That's why they will use market researchers to do a lot of this. This is bigger than any one school.

(12-26-2010 08:08 PM)Sir Galahad Wrote:  

(12-26-2010 08:05 PM)saxamoophone Wrote:  

(12-26-2010 06:22 PM)CatsClaw Wrote:  

(12-26-2010 06:17 PM)saxamoophone Wrote:  Cat,

Nobody in Flordia cares about the Big East (outset Tampa). Houston nor UCf gives you market domination in a state. At least UCF only has one pro team and UF to really worry about..... But it's a long battle eiter way for relevance.

I've said this before, the Big East doesn't care about market domination, all they need is a share of the market, and they could get that in Texas with Houston and TCU. They already have a share in Florida and they could get further into the state, now the Big East probably wants to focus on Texas.

The question really becomes what gives you a greater share, TCU + Houston or UCF + USF?

Also, why should TCU support Houston over UCF? A) they really don't have a vote and B) why wouldn't they "USF" block them?

All this USF blocking stuff is laughable. The state of Florida and BOR would have a field day with USF if they stopped another state school from getting the ability to generate millions of dollars. This is not the State of Alabama blocking UAB from getting a coach, this is the largest school in the State of Florida. While USF may not want UCF in the Big East, the back lash that would come from the State Legislature and the BOR would be much worse than anything UCF could do to USF on the field of play.

That's right, that's why there's more then one way to skin a cat. This is also why I think it's amusing that you guys are focusing on complaining about USF. If what you're saying is true, why get upset you're going to get an invite anyway? I told you guys that USF is the least of your worries. And I doubt that the State of Florida cares about USF "blocking" UCF from the Big East, especially if UCF has other options.

Quote:The question really becomes what gives you a greater share, TCU + Houston or UCF + USF?

Also, why should TCU support Houston over UCF? A) they really don't have a vote and B) why wouldn't they "USF" block them?

You're the one comparing the teams, I'm sure others are looking at it like this, we're not in Texas what's the best way to penetrate a new market that is controlled by another conference? Also you guys need to stop saying that TCU doesn't have a vote. They do have a vote. It may not be an official vote but it's a powerful vote. I've told you guys that. Back in 2003 Cincinnati and Louisville didn't have a "vote" yet we pushed for USF to join the conference and they were invited. Jurich and Goin talked about it in the media. Big East schools also talked to Louisville and Cincinnati about possibly splitting before we were invited in November and why not? What do you think, you invite a new member and them ignore then until they join the conference? Do you really believe that UCF had no say in the future of C-USA until 2005? That's ridiculous. And, again, USF isn't "blocking" anybody. They may be vocal about their feelings but how is that any different then Texas being vocal against adding TCU? But if you're wondering why TCU isn't against adding Houston, well they're former conference mates for one, in several conferences in fact. And their universities are close and friendly with each other, they shared in getting backstabbed by the former SWC teams. USF and UCF don't have a long history of being friends, have never been conference mates, and don't particularly care for each other. Ohio is a pretty strong recruiting hotbed and Cincinnati would be against adding Miami-OH, WVU is against adding Marshall even though they "supported" their addition to the conference. I'm sure Kentucky is against adding Louisville. Do you think UCF would be for adding Florida International or Florida Atlantic to C-USA? It's about protecting your turf.

(12-26-2010 08:57 PM)CatsClaw Wrote:  You're the one comparing the teams, I'm sure others are looking at it like this, we're not in Texas what's the best way to penetrate a new market that is controlled by another conference?

Meh? My point was that the Big East doesn't have (serious) penetration in EITHER Florida or Texas.

TCU or USF alone make very little dent in their respective states (no disrespect intended...it's just they are always going to be in the shadow of Texas or UF). If you only add ONE team, and it's between Houston or UCF then you have pick between Florida or Texas. Either way, you're still going to play second fiddle to other conferences).

If you want Texas & Florida add both. If you want a share of the Carolinas add ECU. But we all know these "one team islands" the Big East is creating will NOT be overally successful.

Quote: Also you guys need to stop saying that TCU doesn't have a vote. They do have a vote. It may not be an official vote but it's a powerful vote.

A voice in the process, sure. But a Powerful voice? At this point they just have to be happy about getting the invite. They are't going to be the players driving Team #10.....

Quote:And, again, USF isn't "blocking" anybody. They may be vocal about their feelings

Agreed. They are obviously trying to steer attention towards Texas to deter attention from UCF, I would expect nothing less from a school that has more to lose with us joining!

Quote:But if you're wondering why TCU isn't against adding Houston, well they're former conference mates for one, in several conferences in fact. And their universities are close and friendly with each other, they shared in getting backstabbed by the former SWC teams.

I could understand that. Although I don't know if they would bend over backwards for them. Guess we'll see!

Cheers.

This has all become such a big joke on the Big East and the Non-AQ's that desperately want the BCS tag.

The perception of BE football is certainly not good and the BE added TCU in desperation.

If the basketball schools agree to move to 10 football schools, then any of the long list of BE "candidates", discussed over and over again, could do well given the BCS tag.

How is this thread allowed to continue? The OP stated that some one over at Coogfans has a source and that UH will somehow be invited to the BE. Now mind you, I can't find one credible source looking at all BE scout sites.

I get warned by staff for "not posting facts" and now subjected to having my posts moderated by staff before they are allowed to be posted. What the original poster is claiming is pure speculation. No one knows what the BE is going to do. This is just like the whole Chip Brown tweet PAC-10 saga during the summer. He was fed info from his sources at UT and then at the 11th hour none of it came to fruition.

It's one thing to have a wish list on who should be or shouldn't be invited to the BE but to allow something that can't be verified is wrong. Just my honest opinion.

Quote:But if you're wondering why TCU isn't against adding Houston, well they're former conference mates for one, in several conferences in fact. And their universities are close and friendly with each other, they shared in getting backstabbed by the former SWC teams.

Houston and TCU were together in the SWC, but its been awhile. Yeah, they were both in CUSA, until TCU bailed and left Houston high and dry. TCU's most recent activity with Houston has been in leaving them behind. Not exactly friendly. I'd say at best TCU just doesn't care about Houston. If they really did care they would have dragged Houston along to the MWC.

Plus, if getting stabbed in the back by Texas is all it takes for schools to become best friends, then that'd be quite the club. Just because both schools got screwed by Texas doesn't mean that they can't hate each other, too.

You are both making compelling points and I'm very much enjoying the back and forth. However I must say that I agree with Sax's primary point about "one team islands" being a very questionable strategy if our goal is to create market penetration rather than just being content with having a market presence.

I don't think people are fully grasping the distinction between market presence and market penetration. At the very least I think people are underestimating the value of the latter over the former.

C-USA has a market presence in Houston, Dallas, Birmingham, Memphis, Orlando, Tulsa, El Paso, and New Orleans amongst others. However it has almost zero penetration in any of those markets (which is why it is being forced to do things like play a joint championship game against the MWC). The biggest difference between the Big East and C-USA has always been that the BE has market penetration whereas C-USA merely has market presence. And frankly, on the other side of the coin, the biggest difference between the Big East and the other BCS leagues is that the BE doesn't have nearly as much widespread penetration as the state school/land grant dominated B10, ACC, SEC, B12, and Pac-10.

The Big East obviously has much more national cache than C-USA but I think it is the height of arrogance and foolishlness to just assume that we are impervious to the same pitfalls that have befallen that league. That is why I continue to suggest that we need to SERIOUSLY consider expanding to 12 teams (in phases of course) and I believe that all three programs should come from Texas AND Florida. That, in my view, is the best way to ensure that we are able to establish meaningful market penetration in some very valuable markets both in the media DMA sense as well as the football recruiting sense.

As for team No. 10, the answer is easy and it is obviously UCF. While Houston is talking about renovating its facilities or building new ones in their place, UCF has already taken those steps and invested those dollars. Also, though the Houston market is obviously larger than Orlando, I just can't shake the statistic that UCF is the largest school in the state of Florida and the third largest university in the United States. That is a LOT of future alums, which translates to both fans and donations.

Also, about 15 years ago the powers that be at UCF were also wise enough to build a TON of on campus housing there making it more of a traditional campus than it had been earlier. From what I've read on the matter, Houston is following a very similar path but it is obviously well behind UCF on the facilities front and that is a BIG deal.

I think both schools will ultiumately be members of the Big East but I think Houston is going to have to wait just a little bit longer to get there. That's just my guess based on everything I have read and heard both here and elsewhere.

(12-26-2010 11:23 PM)moron Wrote:  Houston and TCU were together in the SWC, but its been awhile. Yeah, they were both in CUSA, until TCU bailed and left Houston high and dry. TCU's most recent activity with Houston has been in leaving them behind. Not exactly friendly. I'd say at best TCU just doesn't care about Houston. If they really did care they would have dragged Houston along to the MWC.

It is my understanding that TCU did encourage Houston to join them in the MWC when they left C-USA. Houston declined at the time because it was deemed that travel costs would be too great.

(12-26-2010 06:47 PM)CatsClaw Wrote:  

(12-26-2010 06:37 PM)goodknightfl Wrote:  I don't think anyone here has any clue what the BE wants. Heck I don't think they know what they want. Will they take Houston?? maybe... maybe not. Will they take UCF?? maybe..... maybe not. I laugh every time I see someone acting like they have some sort of Idea what will or will not happen.

Really? I told you and others that Houston was much more in the picture then UCF fans realized and they are. I told you that the Big Ten was done expanding and they announced it soon afterwards. Other people told you other things. There were people on here that told us about the Big 12 schools almost coming to the Big East, people kept saying that the MWC had a chance, then Bill Self confirmed that it was true. People don't know everything, but people know a lot more then you give them credit for. I've never acted like I know everything that is going on, but people talk to me, and there are people a heck of a lot more "connected" then I am. Things are moving along. The Big East knows exactly what they want. People like to perceive the Big East as this clueless, helpless, weak conference and nothing could be further from the truth. The Big East has a plan in place to make us an elite conference perception wise (in football) and financially, and they're executing that plan.

Ok, tell me tomorrow's lottery numbers then. Use my PM please.

(12-26-2010 05:53 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  Just imagine having a 12 team league with five programs located in talent-rich Florida and Texas.

I'm imagining a league called "Conference USA".

(12-26-2010 11:53 PM)chrisharper80 Wrote:  

(12-26-2010 11:23 PM)moron Wrote:  Houston and TCU were together in the SWC, but its been awhile. Yeah, they were both in CUSA, until TCU bailed and left Houston high and dry. TCU's most recent activity with Houston has been in leaving them behind. Not exactly friendly. I'd say at best TCU just doesn't care about Houston. If they really did care they would have dragged Houston along to the MWC.

It is my understanding that TCU did encourage Houston to join them in the MWC when they left C-USA. Houston declined at the time because it was deemed that travel costs would be too great.

Nope. Houston wanted out like they were being chased with a machine gun.

(12-27-2010 12:14 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(12-26-2010 05:53 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  Just imagine having a 12 team league with five programs located in talent-rich Florida and Texas.

I'm imagining a league called "Conference USA".

I agree and that 12 team situation would be CUSA juiced up and that doesn't exactly tickle my fancy. Just saying...............

(12-27-2010 12:27 AM)kardphan Wrote:  

(12-27-2010 12:14 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(12-26-2010 05:53 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  Just imagine having a 12 team league with five programs located in talent-rich Florida and Texas.

I'm imagining a league called "Conference USA".

I agree and that 12 team situation would be CUSA juiced up and that doesn't exactly tickle my fancy. Just saying...............

Sometimes you just have to take what you can get. With luck the conference proves its legitimacy by getting better and winning. And maybe finally having a little stability couldn't hurt...

(12-27-2010 12:29 AM)moron Wrote:  

(12-27-2010 12:27 AM)kardphan Wrote:  

(12-27-2010 12:14 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(12-26-2010 05:53 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  Just imagine having a 12 team league with five programs located in talent-rich Florida and Texas.

I'm imagining a league called "Conference USA".

I agree and that 12 team situation would be CUSA juiced up and that doesn't exactly tickle my fancy. Just saying...............

Sometimes you just have to take what you can get. With luck the conference proves its legitimacy by getting better and winning. And maybe finally having a little stability couldn't hurt...

I don't disagree but if you look at the reality of that proposal its like CUSA upgrade version. I think most people would look at the league as that way. I just can't see a 12 team league happening. A 10 team football league more than likely yes but 12????