What's in a name? that which we call a rose, by any other name would smell as sweet!

Like any good stereotype, "Directional U" is based in some reality. The fact is, most public directional schools are smaller, poorer and have lower quality athletics and academics due to their regional, Masters level educational missions compared to their state Flagship brethren with their state/national level research missions. The BCS, which is mostly made up of public Flagship schools, is decidedly loathed to associate itself with Directional Us unless they are desperate to stay alive.

Now, some directional schools like Central Florida are slowly growing beyond the traditional mission of a "Directional U". Usually when this happens, they take on a name that allows them to disassociate themselves with the "Directional U" stereotype. In their case, The University of Orlando would be that next logical step. However, if they choose not to do so because they believe there is value in keeping the name Central Florida (though the fact that their current branding program explicitly avoids the word "Central" in their name and want to be called U-C-F and NOT "Central Florida" would seem to belie this) then that is their business.

(04-27-2011 07:28 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  What's in a name? that which we call a rose, by any other name would smell as sweet!

Like any good stereotype, "Directional U" is based in some reality. The fact is, most public directional schools are smaller, poorer and have lower quality athletics and academics due to their regional, Masters level educational missions compared to their state Flagship brethren with their state/national level research missions. The BCS, which is mostly made up of public Flagship schools, is decidedly loathed to associate itself with Directional Us unless they are desperate to stay alive.

Now, some directional schools like Central Florida are slowly growing beyond the traditional mission of a "Directional U". Usually when this happens, they take on a name that allows them to disassociate themselves with the "Directional U" stereotype. In their case, The University of Orlando would be that next logical step. However, if they choose not to do so because they believe there is value in keeping the name Central Florida (though the fact that their current branding program explicitly avoids the word "Central" in their name and want to be called U-C-F and NOT "Central Florida" would seem to belie this) then that is their business.

Basically any school thats not named Univ of (Insert State Name) or (Insert State Name) State University is what I would call a directional school. This wouldn't include private schools however since they're a different animal altogether. Sooo..that would include the Univs of Memphis, Cincinatti, Louisville, Houston, etc. North Carolina and many other states have taken things a step further by forcing schools to be called UNC-Asheville, UNC-Charlotte, UNC-Pembroke, etc. Those arrogant asses in Chapel Hill tried to make us UNC-Greenville but that didn't fly. That's how proud we are to be named East Carolina University. The same can be said of Appalachian State.

(04-27-2011 07:48 AM)NoQuarter08 Wrote:  Basically any school thats not named Univ of (Insert State Name) or (Insert State Name) State University is what I would call a directional school.

West Virginia and UConn... kick the rest out. In fact... West Virginia is a directional state. There's no East Virginia or South Virginia... There's Virginia and this lame, directional, rip-off. So the BE is UConn.

I never did understand the idea of some schools calling others out for "directional" names. Pitt could be Western Pennsylvania University...just as UCF could be the Univeristy of Orlando...(or Eastern Orlando). Cincinnati could be Southern Ohio University....just because a school is located in a city doesnt change the role of the school within the State system.

The BE Conference

Northern Kentucky
Southern Ohio
Western Pennsylvania
Northern New York
New Jersey University
Western Florida

Calling out schools for being directional is just another way to try to give your school credit while belittling another school.

I think University of (City) is higher in the hierarchy than Directional University

IMO, for public schools, the general hierarchy is like this:

1) University of [State], [State] State University,

2) [State] Tech University, Historic Name University (Purdue, Clemson)

2) University of [City]

3) Directional U, System School (UNC-C, UNC-A etc)

Obviously there are always exceptions. UCLA is technically a UC system school but they are far above and Cal State school. Rutgers is a Historic Name school but is clearly the Flagship school of NJ and far and above NJT. Pittsburgh is considered to be much better than Temple.

However, in most states and in the general public, this is the general order of prestige that university names are PERCEIVED to denote.

(04-26-2011 09:57 PM)ArmoredUpKnight Wrote:  

(04-26-2011 09:43 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(04-26-2011 09:33 PM)saxamoophone Wrote:  Because USC isn't taken seriously being "directional" of Texas A&M for playing second fiddle to Texas, right?

if UCF was still called Florida Tech would that be any better?

I'd like to think that people who follow college sports went to college and are smart enough to look beyond a name

What?

Central Florida's original name was Florida Tech. I feel like its debated every off season if it should have been Fla Tech or Central Fla. Many argue that branding would have been better as Florida Tech.

I am extremely happy we are the UCF Knights and not the Florida Tech Citronauts.

How would she look dressed as a citranaut?http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v79/SasukeOfUchiha06/sigbbs.jpg

East Carolina Teachers College, East Carolina College, East Carolina University. Over the years the name has changes, but East Carolina will always be part of it. Miko, you are right about "directional" schools being created for different reasons or purposes than the major universities in most states, but over time the "directional" school's mission also changes. While once a school meant to produce teachers for a poor region of North Carolina, ECTC has evolved past that and has become a major research university and medical university. ECU's commitments to athletics shouldn't be considered any less than that of any BCS program. In the past it has been ECU's athletic programs (mostly football) that the entire state east of Raleigh has rallied around during difficult times (hurricane Floyd, the poor economy). It undoubtedly takes time for peoples perceptions of a school to change (ECU has been fighting that with the UNC system for years) but eventually given enough time and accomplishments on the part of the school, perceptions do change. In our own state, ECU isn't so much the red-headed stepchild of the UNC system anymore as it is a major threat to the "established" schools. The educational, medical, and dental schools here are catching and surpassing some other UNC system schools.

Anyways, this isn't meant as pimping, just an illustration of how a "directional school" can grow past its initial mission and become a major player in state higher education. ECU shouldn't be worried about what peoples perceptions might be from the northeast. Plenty of parents from Big East territory send their kids to ECU for an education each year.

East Carolina Teachers College, East Carolina College, East Carolina University. Over the years the name has changes, but East Carolina will always be part of it. Miko, you are right about "directional" schools being created for different reasons or purposes than the major universities in most states, but over time the "directional" school's mission also changes. While once a school meant to produce teachers for a poor region of North Carolina, ECTC has evolved past that and has become a major research university and medical university. ECU's commitments to athletics shouldn't be considered any less than that of any BCS program. In the past it has been ECU's athletic programs (mostly football) that the entire state east of Raleigh has rallied around during difficult times (hurricane Floyd, the poor economy). It undoubtedly takes time for peoples perceptions of a school to change (ECU has been fighting that with the UNC system for years) but eventually given enough time and accomplishments on the part of the school, perceptions do change. In our own state, ECU isn't so much the red-headed stepchild of the UNC system anymore as it is a major threat to the "established" schools. The educational, medical, and dental schools here are catching and surpassing some other UNC system schools.

Anyways, this isn't meant as pimping, just an illustration of how a "directional school" can grow past its initial mission and become a major player in state higher education. ECU shouldn't be worried about what peoples perceptions might be from the northeast. Plenty of parents from Big East territory send their kids to ECU for an education each year.



Can anybody tell me why my posts are posting twice lately?

(04-27-2011 08:07 AM)HP-TBDPITL Wrote:  I never did understand the idea of some schools calling others out for "directional" names. Pitt could be Western Pennsylvania University...just as UCF could be the Univeristy of Orlando...(or Eastern Orlando). Cincinnati could be Southern Ohio University....just because a school is located in a city doesnt change the role of the school within the State system.

The BE Conference

Northern Kentucky
Southern Ohio
Western Pennsylvania
Northern New York
New Jersey University
Western Florida

Calling out schools for being directional is just another way to try to give your school credit while belittling another school.

Agreed. I never understood why being named for a region like Central Florida or East Carolina is somehow worse than being named for a city in that same region like Orlando or Greenville. I guess there are just a lot of small minded people out there with some strange thinking.

Personally, as a computer engineer, I would have much preferred that UCF had stayed as Florida Tech. I understand, though, that the university wanted to make its mission a broad based one and thought that Florida Tech was not a name that fit that mission. It was changed relatively early in the school's history (first classes at FTU were in 1968, the name was changed in 1978).

(04-27-2011 06:51 AM)apex_pirate Wrote:  

(04-26-2011 10:00 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(04-26-2011 09:44 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  I don't think any school's name has anything to do with anything, particularly for a league that already has a so-called "directional school" among its members (South Florida).

Honestly the whole "directional school" thing mystifies me to no end. For example the profiles of Central Florida and Eastern Michigan don't compare any more accurately than Western Kentucky University compares with the University of Southern California. If tomorrow the University of Central Florida announced that it was changing its name to the University of Orlando what difference would that make regarding their academic profile, athletic budget, endowment, facilities, etc.?

Also, aren't most of us "directional schools" to some degree? Isn't Pitt for example a "directional school?" What about Cincinnati? Syracuse?

I think the whole "directional school" criticism is a refuge for the uninformed and I just hope that our leadership isn't nearly so foolish even though I have my doubts in that regard.

I've seen the term "directional school" be used in a general sense to denote a school that is not a "big time school" per se. I'm referring to the idea that a number of the so called directional schools were created to be entirely different universities from the ones typically represented in the BCS conferences today. For example, you could think of FSU as a university that fit the idea of a "directional school" because it was more of a teachers college while UF was more of your typical research driven university in Florida. Other schools - like UL and Cincy for example - were urban schools that were designed to serve the needs of the city region primarily for education. When schools follow these different missions, I think they (undeservedly in my opinion) tend to be viewed as not being a glamorous or sexy pick for an expansion candidate. With image conscious alumni and leaders of these schools, are some candidates excluded before even being given a chance to make a case?

I think you are right in many cases...but as TexanMark pointed out...it is a state of mind. There seems to be a threshhold of which a school must cross with the general public before they relinquish the unfair moniker that labels them as inferior. Enough exposure, big wins, etc. seems to wipe away the majority of the negativity....but not all of it. That is enough for people to look past your name in a similar way they already do for other AQs that have that in their name. Clearly the BE execs view East Carolina and Central Florida in a different light than say North Texas (I'm sure there is a better example). I do believe ECU has crossed that threshhold and done it on their own. I'm not sure UCF has crossed that threshhold on their own but it is quite clear that ESPN will help change that perception for them. They have the avenue to do it...and all the better for UCF...it is an unfair way to be viewed. I just don't think people view Temple any more favorably than East Carolina or Central Florida just because of their name. Marketing, apparrel sales and TV viewership for these two non-AQ schools prove that names are not holding anyone back. While Big East management clearly comes across as enept...they certainly aren't that stupid. If they were, no one should want to be in the Big East.

In my mind...ECU crossed over. I really don't think of them as a directional school anymore. 45-50k fans changes things.

(04-27-2011 08:11 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  I think University of (City) is higher in the hierarchy than Directional University

IMO, for public schools, the general hierarchy is like this:

1) University of [State], [State] State University,

2) [State] Tech University, Historic Name University (Purdue, Clemson)

2) University of [City]

3) Directional U, System School (UNC-C, UNC-A etc)

Obviously there are always exceptions. UCLA is technically a UC system school but they are far above and Cal State school. Rutgers is a Historic Name school but is clearly the Flagship school of NJ and far and above NJT. Pittsburgh is considered to be much better than Temple.

However, in most states and in the general public, this is the general order of prestige that university names are PERCEIVED to denote.

If ECU were called the "University of Eastern North Carolina", I might agree it would fall into the "directional U" category. Instead, it is EAST CAROLINA UNIVERSITY, denoting a specific, finite geographic area, more closely approximating "University of [CITY]". In the hierarchy of directional-ness, it rests somewhere between the University of North Carolina and the University of Southern California.

Calling a school 'directional' is just an intellectually lazy way of saying a school is not a state flagship AND/OR a member of the BCS cartel AND/OR a school who has risen above its 'directional' name for the sake of convenience AND/OR all of the above (plus its faster to type "directional U").

I'm curious to know where Louisiana Tech, Arkansas State, University of Idaho, and University of Nevada fit in the directional taxonomy.

(04-27-2011 08:24 AM)Inigo Wrote:  

(04-27-2011 08:07 AM)HP-TBDPITL Wrote:  I never did understand the idea of some schools calling others out for "directional" names. Pitt could be Western Pennsylvania University...just as UCF could be the Univeristy of Orlando...(or Eastern Orlando). Cincinnati could be Southern Ohio University....just because a school is located in a city doesnt change the role of the school within the State system.

The BE Conference

Northern Kentucky
Southern Ohio
Western Pennsylvania
Northern New York
New Jersey University
Western Florida

Calling out schools for being directional is just another way to try to give your school credit while belittling another school.

Agreed. I never understood why being named for a region like Central Florida or East Carolina is somehow worse than being named for a city in that same region like Orlando or Greenville. I guess there are just a lot of small minded people out there with some strange thinking.

Personally, as a computer engineer, I would have much preferred that UCF had stayed as Florida Tech. I understand, though, that the university wanted to make its mission a broad based one and thought that Florida Tech was not a name that fit that mission. It was changed relatively early in the school's history (first classes at FTU were in 1968, the name was changed in 1978).

There are perceptions tied to names no matter how much you try to spin it. But the "directional U" concept goes much deeper than just a name. It has much more to do with what a school is trying to accomplish or hasn't accomplished. Let's strip the names away. I have 2 universities to look at.

University A

• Operating budget: $1.889 billion
• Endowment: $2.03 billion
• Research Expenditures: Approx $750 million
  

University B

• Operating Budget: Approx $750 million
• Endowment: $156 million
• Research: $42 million
  

Based on this info alone, would University A be pleased to associate with University B, given that University A is striving to associate with like minded universities who want to pursue the same goals?

(04-27-2011 08:07 AM)HP-TBDPITL Wrote:  I never did understand the idea of some schools calling others out for "directional" names. Pitt could be Western Pennsylvania University...just as UCF could be the Univeristy of Orlando...(or Eastern Orlando). Cincinnati could be Southern Ohio University....just because a school is located in a city doesnt change the role of the school within the State system.

The BE Conference

Northern Kentucky
Southern Ohio
Western Pennsylvania
Northern New York
New Jersey University
Western Florida

Calling out schools for being directional is just another way to try to give your school credit while belittling another school.

Actually a Syracusan would never call himself Northern New York. We are very defensive about that...we are in Central NY. Not NNY not WNY but Central NY...so taking UCF's well known defense..we wouldn't be a direction.

BTW, Northern NY starts about 50 miles north of Syracuse

(04-27-2011 08:11 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  I think University of (City) is higher in the hierarchy than Directional University

IMO, for public schools, the general hierarchy is like this:

1) University of [State], [State] State University,

2) [State] Tech University, Historic Name University (Purdue, Clemson)

2) University of [City]

3) Directional U, System School (UNC-C, UNC-A etc)

Obviously there are always exceptions. UCLA is technically a UC system school but they are far above and Cal State school. Rutgers is a Historic Name school but is clearly the Flagship school of NJ and far and above NJT. Pittsburgh is considered to be much better than Temple.

However, in most states and in the general public, this is the general order of prestige that university names are PERCEIVED to denote.

And in NY it is a whole nother matter...The SUNY system has created 4 rather equal state university flagships which excel academically but fail miserably as a sports flagship (Buffalo, Albany, Binghamton and Stony Brook). So the City named school (Syracuse) moved from 3rd to 1st tier in NY but really only in Upstate NY. NYC is way too fragmented to be claimed by anyone.

Many thought if Rutgers was named NJU or NJSU...it would have been invited to join the Big Ten or ACC years ago.

(04-27-2011 07:59 AM)SublimeKnight Wrote:  

(04-27-2011 07:48 AM)NoQuarter08 Wrote:  Basically any school thats not named Univ of (Insert State Name) or (Insert State Name) State University is what I would call a directional school.

West Virginia and UConn... kick the rest out. In fact... West Virginia is a directional state. There's no East Virginia or South Virginia... There's Virginia and this lame, directional, rip-off. So the BE is UConn.

Lmao

(04-27-2011 09:21 AM)KnightLight Wrote:  Many thought if Rutgers was named NJU or NJSU...it would have been invited to join the Big Ten or ACC years ago.

That really doesn't make sense at all. The academic credentials and location of the school have always been the major pluses in that school's favor. The Rutgers name was irrelevant, as it has always been a clear flagship.

The reason why the Big Ten and ACC didn't invite Rutgers years ago was that they were not just kind of bad, but historically and famously bad at playing football.

The problem with UCF as "Florida Tech" was that the Florida Institute of Technology also went by "Florida Tech". The confusion led UCF to change its name. No one at the time would have guessed that UCF would grow to what it is today, with a greater national presence than FIT, so I can't blame FTU leaders for changing their name to distinguish themselves.

As for USF, at the time of its founding, the northern half of the state held all of the political power. The southern half of the state finally convinced the legislature to found a university south of Gainesville. The name University of South Florida was chosen, partly to satisfy legislators from Miami who were hoping the new university would end up there instead of Tampa.

Oddly enough, the private university Florida Southern College is located north of USF. Back when these universities were founded, everything south of Ocala was considered "South Florida", and the rest "North Florida". I guess an OK comparison would be Northwestern...no one these days would consider Chicago part of the northwestern United States, but at the time of its founding, Northwestern was an apt description.

(04-27-2011 08:52 AM)miko33 Wrote:  There are perceptions tied to names no matter how much you try to spin it. But the "directional U" concept goes much deeper than just a name. It has much more to do with what a school is trying to accomplish or hasn't accomplished. Let's strip the names away. I have 2 universities to look at.

University A

• Operating budget: $1.889 billion
• Endowment: $2.03 billion
• Research Expenditures: Approx $750 million
  

University B

• Operating Budget: Approx $750 million
• Endowment: $156 million
• Research: $42 million
  

Based on this info alone, would University A be pleased to associate with University B, given that University A is striving to associate with like minded universities who want to pursue the same goals?

I do agree with the premise but it doesn't always lead to the result you insinuate. Has there ever been a time in the past where the Big East had a Team A and decided to associate itself with a Team B? Is the Big East in the same position as it was in prior years to be as picky academically when it comes to those decisions? This IS about football and the $$$ that they can make moreso than academics. While academics is truly important, IMO it will play a far lesser role than most would like in this go 'round. It isn't like UCF and ECU are far enough apart to make a difference and it sure seems like UCF is in. Like I said, IMO academics will play a far lesser role than most would like in this go 'round.

(04-27-2011 07:48 AM)NoQuarter08 Wrote:  Those arrogant asses in Chapel Hill tried to make us UNC-Greenville but that didn't fly. That's how proud we are to be named East Carolina University.

What's East Carolina University? Is that the FCS team we beat 42-17 last fall?