(04-15-2012 01:12 AM)Rockman Wrote:  The Big XII teams have signed their media rights over to the conference......no one going anywhere.

No one knows this. One, the legality of this has not been decided in court. Two, just as there exists a monetary fee and length of time a school has to remain before exiting a conference such as the Big East, we saw that everything is negotiable. Lastly, if an institution truly does not want to remain associated with a conference the longer they remain, the more negative image the conference has (thus hurting the image of the conference and those institutions who want to remain). I'm of the opionion that presidents are more likely to settle, no matter what is at stake ($$$, time, or media rights) if a partner truly wants to leave.

Cheers,
Neil

I believe signing over rights occurs on July 1st, Neil, when TCU and WVU officially become Big XII members...

(04-15-2012 01:09 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  I believe signing over rights occurs on July 1st, Neil, when TCU and WVU officially become Big XII members...

It don't matter when it happens for my point, bit.

My point is along the lines of two years into this thing the ACC decides they want WVU and if WVU decides in return they want the ACC the Eers will challenge the legality of signing over the media rights just as they did the $20 million exit fee and 27 month waiting period of the Big East.

People are making a huge assumption, imho, that somehow the granting of the media rights thing is more "stable" than exit fee clauses that ask for notice and impose a penalty fee.

Everything is negotiable in today's culture and having a member who is suing the conference and talking ill of the conference on a weekly basis will make it more difficult to find replacements. Presidents don't like that kind of publicity.

Cheers,
Neil

(04-15-2012 04:50 PM)omniorange Wrote:  My point is along the lines of two years into this thing the ACC decides they want WVU and if WVU decides in return they want the ACC the Eers will challenge the legality of signing over the media rights just as they did the $20 million exit fee and 27 month waiting period of the Big East.

Except when West Virginia sued, it wasn't a $20M exit fee. It was a $5M exit fee. That $15M was the cost of breaking what was supposed to be a non-breakable contract. If the Big East bylaws had the kind of structure that the Mountain West bylaws have, specifiying a penalty of $X million for leaving early, then you really can't weasel your way out of that.

The grant-of-rights is legally stronger because it's not committing the school to stay in the conference. But the conference owns the TV rights to the school's home games. If West Virginia wants to go to the ACC in 2015, a grant of rights doesn't stop them. But that Clemson @ West Virginia game is going to be shown as part of the Big 12 TV package.

A court is going to uphold that. It's a financial penalty. You don't like it, stay in the conference.

The flaw in a grant-of-rights is that it's time limited. A six-year grant of rights sounds really daunting in year one, two and three. By year four, if West Virginia wants to leave the Big 12, they're looking at two years worth of TV distributions. That's a big sum of money, but not an impossible sum.

As far as we can tell, Navy is joining the Big East with CBS still owning the rights to their best home games (Army and Notre Dame) until 2018. So it's not impossible to join a conference without bringing your home game TV rights inside the tent--if both sides want it badly enough.

(04-15-2012 11:17 AM)omniorange Wrote:  

(04-15-2012 01:12 AM)Rockman Wrote:  The Big XII teams have signed their media rights over to the conference......no one going anywhere.

No one knows this. One, the legality of this has not been decided in court. Two, just as there exists a monetary fee and length of time a school has to remain before exiting a conference such as the Big East, we saw that everything is negotiable. Lastly, if an institution truly does not want to remain associated with a conference the longer they remain, the more negative image the conference has (thus hurting the image of the conference and those institutions who want to remain). I'm of the opionion that presidents are more likely to settle, no matter what is at stake ($$$, time, or media rights) if a partner truly wants to leave.

Cheers,
Neil

No, the media rights have indeed been signed over-it is a fact-for the next 6 years and it is expected when they sign the next tv deal this will be extended until 2025.

No conference is inviting a team whose media rights are signed over, it isn't the same thing as a buyout to leave a conference. There aren't buyouts for signing over media rights--you leave all tv money with the conference period.

(04-15-2012 05:46 PM)buckaineer Wrote:  

(04-15-2012 11:17 AM)omniorange Wrote:  

(04-15-2012 01:12 AM)Rockman Wrote:  The Big XII teams have signed their media rights over to the conference......no one going anywhere.

No one knows this. One, the legality of this has not been decided in court. Two, just as there exists a monetary fee and length of time a school has to remain before exiting a conference such as the Big East, we saw that everything is negotiable. Lastly, if an institution truly does not want to remain associated with a conference the longer they remain, the more negative image the conference has (thus hurting the image of the conference and those institutions who want to remain). I'm of the opionion that presidents are more likely to settle, no matter what is at stake ($$$, time, or media rights) if a partner truly wants to leave.

Cheers,
Neil

No, the media rights have indeed been signed over-it is a fact-for the next 6 years and it is expected when they sign the next tv deal this will be extended until 2025.

I was going to ask for a source, but I did my own googling, and this was the best I could do. October 28, big12sports.com, "We're circulating the grant of rights agreement as we speak," Oklahoma State president and Big 12 board chairman Burns Hargis said Friday afternoon. "We expect final approval at our next meeting Tuesday."

http://www.big12sports.com/ViewArticle.d...=205324001

I expect that if anything happened except for all 9 schools signing on Nov 1, 2011 (I think that was the next Tuesday after Oct 28), we'd have heard about it.

Quote:No conference is inviting a team whose media rights are signed over, it isn't the same thing as a buyout to leave a conference. There aren't buyouts for signing over media rights--you leave all tv money with the conference period.

This is true, but as you get near the end of a grant-of-rights, it gets a lot less scary. Say the SEC and Texas decided that they were perfect together. Is having Texas' home football and basketball games excluded from the SEC TV package for say 2 years going to stop that marriage?

(04-15-2012 05:33 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(04-15-2012 04:50 PM)omniorange Wrote:  My point is along the lines of two years into this thing the ACC decides they want WVU and if WVU decides in return they want the ACC the Eers will challenge the legality of signing over the media rights just as they did the $20 million exit fee and 27 month waiting period of the Big East.

Except when West Virginia sued, it wasn't a $20M exit fee. It was a $5M exit fee. That $15M was the cost of breaking what was supposed to be a non-breakable contract. If the Big East bylaws had the kind of structure that the Mountain West bylaws have, specifiying a penalty of $X million for leaving early, then you really can't weasel your way out of that.

The grant-of-rights is legally stronger because it's not committing the school to stay in the conference. But the conference owns the TV rights to the school's home games. If West Virginia wants to go to the ACC in 2015, a grant of rights doesn't stop them. But that Clemson @ West Virginia game is going to be shown as part of the Big 12 TV package.

A court is going to uphold that. It's a financial penalty. You don't like it, stay in the conference.

The flaw in a grant-of-rights is that it's time limited. A six-year grant of rights sounds really daunting in year one, two and three. By year four, if West Virginia wants to leave the Big 12, they're looking at two years worth of TV distributions. That's a big sum of money, but not an impossible sum.

As far as we can tell, Navy is joining the Big East with CBS still owning the rights to their best home games (Army and Notre Dame) until 2018. So it's not impossible to join a conference without bringing your home game TV rights inside the tent--if both sides want it badly enough.

Sorry, but we have no idea what a court will uphold or not uphold simply because no one's challenged it yet because it is too new.

And my point is that a long, drawn out court case is the last thing any conference wants, especially if a member wants to leave.

Cheers,
Neil

(04-15-2012 05:57 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(04-15-2012 05:46 PM)buckaineer Wrote:  

(04-15-2012 11:17 AM)omniorange Wrote:  

(04-15-2012 01:12 AM)Rockman Wrote:  The Big XII teams have signed their media rights over to the conference......no one going anywhere.

No one knows this. One, the legality of this has not been decided in court. Two, just as there exists a monetary fee and length of time a school has to remain before exiting a conference such as the Big East, we saw that everything is negotiable. Lastly, if an institution truly does not want to remain associated with a conference the longer they remain, the more negative image the conference has (thus hurting the image of the conference and those institutions who want to remain). I'm of the opionion that presidents are more likely to settle, no matter what is at stake ($$$, time, or media rights) if a partner truly wants to leave.

Cheers,
Neil

No, the media rights have indeed been signed over-it is a fact-for the next 6 years and it is expected when they sign the next tv deal this will be extended until 2025.

I was going to ask for a source, but I did my own googling, and this was the best I could do. October 28, big12sports.com, "We're circulating the grant of rights agreement as we speak," Oklahoma State president and Big 12 board chairman Burns Hargis said Friday afternoon. "We expect final approval at our next meeting Tuesday."

http://www.big12sports.com/ViewArticle.d...=205324001

I expect that if anything happened except for all 9 schools signing on Nov 1, 2011 (I think that was the next Tuesday after Oct 28), we'd have heard about it.

Quote:No conference is inviting a team whose media rights are signed over, it isn't the same thing as a buyout to leave a conference. There aren't buyouts for signing over media rights--you leave all tv money with the conference period.

This is true, but as you get near the end of a grant-of-rights, it gets a lot less scary. Say the SEC and Texas decided that they were perfect together. Is having Texas' home football and basketball games excluded from the SEC TV package for say 2 years going to stop that marriage?

How bout this straight from the mouth of the BIG 12 commissioner:

excerpt:

We're very stable for a lot of reasons, and you can't ignore the fact that every one of the 10 signed a grant of rights, which means that the conference now has their television rights, so that puts us in a very secure position going forward.

DU: That was officially executed, correct?

CN: Oh, yes.

DU: When were the official documents actually signed?

CN: It was done. I can't remember -- I can't give you the date, but of course West Virginia was the last one to sign it over...

http://espn.go.com/blog/ncfnation/post/_...-expansion

If the SEC were going to try and get Texas, they might wait until 2025 to expand, but I doubt it. Texas already makes as much money as most if not all the SEC teams anyway and they are at the forefront of a strong conference. Nice try though.

(04-13-2012 05:23 PM)EerMeNow Wrote:  

(04-13-2012 05:14 PM)Bull Wrote:  

(04-13-2012 03:51 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  

(04-13-2012 03:48 PM)EerMeNow Wrote:  

(04-13-2012 03:37 PM)ecuacc4ever Wrote:  That's because the Big Texas XII WAS (and to some extent, continues to be) instable. Instable enough for a stalwart like Texas A&M to leave, along with Missouri.

The ACC, however, is stable, and the despite the rantings of a few CU fans and a few hopeful WVU fans, Clemson and FSU are going nowhere.

Do stable conferences raise their exit fees? What is the SEC and Big 10 exit fee?

SEC, nothing. B1G, a 25 year grant of rights.

I don't think anyone would argue that the B10 and SEC are at the 'top' of the mountain. I fail to see how that has anything at all to do with the question: would ACC teams consider moving to the B12? Clearly the ACC is the more stable of the two, exit fees not withstanding. The B12 may put on some lipstick and try to lure a few ACC teams, but consensus seems to be 'ain't gonna happen!'. lol

I am not saying that the Big 12 is a picture of stability. But I am not sure that the ACC is either. Why did they raise the exit fee?



What seems more stable: a $20 million dollar exit fee that some schools were rumored to only reluctantly agree to or a 6 year (rumored to soon be 13 year) grant of rights?

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with you on this. In the past two years, the B12 lost Nebraska, Colorado, Missouri and Texas AM. During this span, they also nearly lost Oklahoma and Oklahoma State, with every other school putting out feelers to move (including Texas). While they staved off death, they took a solid program from the non-BCS ranks and a good program from the BE (who, for the record, tried to get into a different conference-the ACC).

In the same space of time, the ACC lost no one and added two good programs from the BE. I wish WVU the best, but there really isn't a comparison to be made in terms of stability right now.

You are wasting your time, Orange. These people have no interest in mundane things like sound logic and reason. They would rather tell and re-tell fairy tales to each other.

(04-15-2012 11:17 AM)omniorange Wrote:  

(04-15-2012 01:12 AM)Rockman Wrote:  The Big XII teams have signed their media rights over to the conference......no one going anywhere.

No one knows this. One, the legality of this has not been decided in court. Two, just as there exists a monetary fee and length of time a school has to remain before exiting a conference such as the Big East, we saw that everything is negotiable. Lastly, if an institution truly does not want to remain associated with a conference the longer they remain, the more negative image the conference has (thus hurting the image of the conference and those institutions who want to remain). I'm of the opionion that presidents are more likely to settle, no matter what is at stake ($$$, time, or media rights) if a partner truly wants to leave.

Cheers,
Neil

ACC is supposed to sign over their media rights August 15th.....it will be interesting to see if this happens as scheduled. I think the acting commish stated that all teams in the Big 12 had signed and there is talk of increasing the time frame to 13 years.

(04-16-2012 01:31 AM)Rockman Wrote:  ACC is supposed to sign over their media rights August 15th.....it will be interesting to see if this happens as scheduled. I think the acting commish stated that all teams in the Big 12 had signed and there is talk of increasing the time frame to 13 years.

There's nothing on google about the ACC handing over media rights. Do you have a link?

I think he meant the Big XII, Chris. It looks like a typo to me...

(04-15-2012 09:08 PM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  You are wasting your time, Orange. These people have no interest in mundane things like sound logic and reason. They would rather tell and re-tell fairy tales to each other.

Fairy tales like:

ACC football isn't competitive with the power leagues in BCS games.

The ACC tv contracts are below all other power conferences, the deal is long term and for all tiers of rights.

FSU formed a committee to look into conference membership elsewhere.

Clemson formed a committee to report in the summer about the future direction of their athletics programs directly related to realignment.

The ACC added Pitt and SU to stave off defections, attempted to raise exit fees to in the $30 million plus range--held down to $20 by its own membership, and is now trying to get its tv payouts raised to be competitive with the power leagues--to stave off defections.

The ACC comissioner has discussed publicly he knows teams might be looking and could leave but they've tried to take steps to keep this from happening.

Yes--the image of stability

(04-15-2012 08:01 PM)Orangemen Wrote:  In the same space of time, the ACC lost no one and added two good programs from the BE. I wish WVU the best, but there really isn't a comparison to be made in terms of stability right now.

Therein lies the discontent from WVU fan -- the ACC addd two "good" programs from the BE and WVU was not one of them.

The ACC is completely stable, and I'm 100% certain I'll be typing that same sentence at the end of the summer. That, and...

Clemson and FSU are not leaving the ACC for the Big Texas XII.

(04-16-2012 01:58 AM)ChrisLords Wrote:  

(04-16-2012 01:31 AM)Rockman Wrote:  ACC is supposed to sign over their media rights August 15th.....it will be interesting to see if this happens as scheduled. I think the acting commish stated that all teams in the Big 12 had signed and there is talk of increasing the time frame to 13 years.

There's nothing on google about the ACC handing over media rights. Do you have a link?

No link CL, it was a comment from an FSU fan on a FSU site, either NoleDigest or Warchant. Note... Mr Briggs(mod) deleted the entire realignment thread on Warchant yesterday. Don't know if their were technical issues or he just didn't like some of the comments. I think ACC is the last major conference not to do this and according to posted comments it's in the works. Comments also said ACC exit fee raised from 16 to 20M after a much higher fee was shot down by a 3 ACC schools.....one of which they said was FSU. Should be an interesting summer.

(04-16-2012 10:54 AM)Rockman Wrote:  

(04-16-2012 01:58 AM)ChrisLords Wrote:  

(04-16-2012 01:31 AM)Rockman Wrote:  ACC is supposed to sign over their media rights August 15th.....it will be interesting to see if this happens as scheduled. I think the acting commish stated that all teams in the Big 12 had signed and there is talk of increasing the time frame to 13 years.

There's nothing on google about the ACC handing over media rights. Do you have a link?

No link CL, it was a comment from an FSU fan on a FSU site, either NoleDigest or Warchant. Note... Mr Briggs(mod) deleted the entire realignment thread on Warchant yesterday. Don't know if their were technical issues or he just didn't like some of the comments. I think ACC is the last major conference not to do this and according to posted comments it's in the works. Comments also said ACC exit fee raised from 16 to 20M after a much higher fee was shot down by a 3 ACC schools.....one of which they said was FSU. Should be an interesting summer.

Yeah the granting of rights would be very interesting. But I really don't see a school like FSU or Clemson agreeing to that at all.

That rumor about $18 million per year and signing a grant of rights started on the West Virginia board as well. It was then posted on Warchant.

(04-16-2012 10:54 AM)Rockman Wrote:  

(04-16-2012 01:58 AM)ChrisLords Wrote:  

(04-16-2012 01:31 AM)Rockman Wrote:  ACC is supposed to sign over their media rights August 15th.....it will be interesting to see if this happens as scheduled. I think the acting commish stated that all teams in the Big 12 had signed and there is talk of increasing the time frame to 13 years.

There's nothing on google about the ACC handing over media rights. Do you have a link?

No link CL, it was a comment from an FSU fan on a FSU site, either NoleDigest or Warchant. Note... Mr Briggs(mod) deleted the entire realignment thread on Warchant yesterday. Don't know if their were technical issues or he just didn't like some of the comments. I think ACC is the last major conference not to do this and according to posted comments it's in the works. Comments also said ACC exit fee raised from 16 to 20M after a much higher fee was shot down by a 3 ACC schools.....one of which they said was FSU. Should be an interesting summer.

I would be fine with a granting of rights if it were true, because the only reason I can think of that they would do that is that there is going to be an ACC network. Until I see it reported in a reputable news source some where though, I'll assume that it is just message board fodder.

Also, the SEC is a major conference and they haven't had a grant of rights to the conference. The only reason to do so, is so that investors will spend the money to get your conference network off the ground. Unless you're the Big 12 and need to fend off extinction. It's not something schools do just for the hell of it.

(04-16-2012 09:24 AM)ecuacc4ever Wrote:  

(04-15-2012 08:01 PM)Orangemen Wrote:  In the same space of time, the ACC lost no one and added two good programs from the BE. I wish WVU the best, but there really isn't a comparison to be made in terms of stability right now.

Therein lies the discontent from WVU fan -- the ACC addd two "good" programs from the BE and WVU was not one of them.

The ACC is completely stable, and I'm 100% certain I'll be typing that same sentence at the end of the summer. That, and...

Clemson and FSU are not leaving the ACC for the Big Texas XII.

Are Cuse or Pitt any more watchable than Kansas or Iowa St. nationally?