What seems not said so far, and very pertinent, is that Liberty will be a large draw on the road against your team, as is a testament here by the comments made by those making judgmental, opinionated, non-factual statements.

It is all about the money and ones who don't believe that and still stress above all fan loyalty are naive. And advertisers would jump at the opportunity to buy time when LU plays. The emotions expressed on this board are an example of those who would be glued to their TV, or first to buy tickets, to root against LU, especially after having once lost to LU.

It is amusing when statements are made by posters like Theodoresdaddy whose comments, with their bite and slander, speak for themselves. He is unable to contain himself and bashes LU on every occasion available without bringing any sensible, knowledgeable dialogue to the discussion. It's just continual disparaging comments of seething hatred. If Theodoresdaddy were to re-read the many posts, and the many threads, about LU he has left in the past stating the same angry and biting comments, he may notice this pattern as it repeated again and again. We get it, we get your point. It is very simple, just posts to other threads unless you can bring dialogue equal to the others here. Express your anger where you and others can revel in your self-righteousness, but not here.

But the ironic part is this clearly displays how popular LU would be in a FBS conference. For those who have never been on campus, take the time to attend a game, inspect the facilities. You will be impressed what is happening now and plans for the future. If one is a fan of college sports, it is a great environment.

(09-04-2012 09:36 PM)Newetimes Wrote:  What seems not said so far, and very pertinent, is that Liberty will be a large draw on the road against your team, as is a testament here by the comments made by those making judgmental, opinionated, non-factual statements.

It is all about the money and ones who don't believe that and still stress above all fan loyalty are naive. And advertisers would jump at the opportunity to buy time when LU plays. The emotions expressed on this board are an example of those who would be glued to their TV, or first to buy tickets, to root against LU, especially after having once lost to LU.

It is amusing when statements are made by posters like Theodoresdaddy whose comments, with their bite and slander, speak for themselves. He is unable to contain himself and bashes LU on every occasion available without bringing any sensible, knowledgeable dialogue to the discussion. It's just continual disparaging comments of seething hatred. If Theodoresdaddy were to re-read the many posts, and the many threads, about LU he has left in the past stating the same angry and biting comments, he may notice this pattern as it repeated again and again. We get it, we get your point. It is very simple, just posts to other threads unless you can bring dialogue equal to the others here. Express your anger where you and others can revel in your self-righteousness, but not here.

But the ironic part is this clearly displays how popular LU would be in a FBS conference. For those who have never been on campus, take the time to attend a game, inspect the facilities. You will be impressed what is happening now and plans for the future. If one is a fan of college sports, it is a great environment.

How so?

(09-04-2012 09:48 PM)TampaKnight Wrote:  

(09-04-2012 09:36 PM)Newetimes Wrote:  What seems not said so far, and very pertinent, is that Liberty will be a large draw on the road against your team, as is a testament here by the comments made by those making judgmental, opinionated, non-factual statements.

It is all about the money and ones who don't believe that and still stress above all fan loyalty are naive. And advertisers would jump at the opportunity to buy time when LU plays. The emotions expressed on this board are an example of those who would be glued to their TV, or first to buy tickets, to root against LU, especially after having once lost to LU.

It is amusing when statements are made by posters like Theodoresdaddy whose comments, with their bite and slander, speak for themselves. He is unable to contain himself and bashes LU on every occasion available without bringing any sensible, knowledgeable dialogue to the discussion. It's just continual disparaging comments of seething hatred. If Theodoresdaddy were to re-read the many posts, and the many threads, about LU he has left in the past stating the same angry and biting comments, he may notice this pattern as it repeated again and again. We get it, we get your point. It is very simple, just posts to other threads unless you can bring dialogue equal to the others here. Express your anger where you and others can revel in your self-righteousness, but not here.

But the ironic part is this clearly displays how popular LU would be in a FBS conference. For those who have never been on campus, take the time to attend a game, inspect the facilities. You will be impressed what is happening now and plans for the future. If one is a fan of college sports, it is a great environment.

How so?

You can't have it both ways. If liberty is so controversial as to be a major draw, it's too controversial for any FBS presidents to want to associate with.

(09-04-2012 09:36 PM)Newetimes Wrote:  It is amusing when statements are made by posters like Theodoresdaddy whose comments, with their bite and slander, speak for themselves. He is unable to contain himself and bashes LU on every occasion available without bringing any sensible, knowledgeable dialogue to the discussion. It's just continual disparaging comments of seething hatred. If Theodoresdaddy were to re-read the many posts, and the many threads, about LU he has left in the past stating the same angry and biting comments, he may notice this pattern as it repeated again and again. We get it, we get your point. It is very simple, just posts to other threads unless you can bring dialogue equal to the others here. Express your anger where you and others can revel in your self-righteousness, but not here.

slander? do they teach big words like that at Liberty?

One of the goals of Liberty founder Jerry Falwell, may he rot in hell, was to have Liberty be the evangelical equivalent of a Notre Dame. The athletics will never reach that stature and the academics are a joke. The museum has a dinosaur exhibit that states the bones are roughly 3000 years old. The only reason the school is still open is because Falwell took over $3 million from the Moonies.

Google is your friend

(09-05-2012 12:50 AM)Theodoresdaddy Wrote:  slander? do they teach big words like that at Liberty?

One of the goals of Liberty founder Jerry Falwell, may he rot in hell, was to have Liberty be the evangelical equivalent of a Notre Dame. The athletics will never reach that stature and the academics are a joke. The museum has a dinosaur exhibit that states the bones are roughly 3000 years old. The only reason the school is still open is because Falwell took over $3 million from the Moonies.

Google is your friend

Theo, you're not helping your case here as far as your dislike of Liberty being personal rather than based on fact.

1) I'm quite sure Jerry Falwell is not in hell, but the opposite. However I'm not God and can't determine that, are you?

2) Liberty is only 40+ years old. There is plenty of time and room for LU to become the "Notre Dame" or "BYU" of evangelical Christians. Liberty is making great strides academically and athletically.

3) You will find many scientists worldwide who accept and condone the idea of dinosaur bones being that old.

However, this is about sports, not a world view. Liberty is ready to compete in FBS football. It has the facilities, the athletes, the fan support, the money and the plan to succeed. LU will continue to move forward doing the right things until it has the opportunity to move up. I agree you should check out a game at Williams Stadium some time and see for yourself. It is a great game day atmosphere!

and we digress yet again. The reality is that Liberty's Alumni, fanbase, and following are national in scope and in some cases international. There will be interest and fans anywhere LU plays and it will surely continue to grow with more wins and FBS exposure. LU is only 40 yrs old, and the best is yet to come.

TV draw? Ask ESPN and MASN why they love to pick up Liberty games of any kind. We have a lot to bring to a conference if it is not run by narrow-minded, short-sighted haters.

(09-05-2012 07:14 AM)army56mike Wrote:  Liberty is only 40+ years old. There is plenty of time and room for LU to become the "Notre Dame" or "BYU" of evangelical Christians. Liberty is making great strides academically and athletically.

But that is betting on a majority of Christian groups seeing LU as the guiding evengelical school. The ND's and BYU's are so popular in part because there are so few other Catholics who play D-1 football, and none other in BYU's case. But, many evangelicals have their own schools like the TCU's, SMU's, Elons, Presbies, etc, who are already excellent academically and in sports, who won't shift due to prior allegiance. There will certainly be other cases of centrist Christians won't necesarily go for what the school and Falwell stand for, and against.

(09-05-2012 07:14 AM)army56mike Wrote:  3) You will find many scientists worldwide who accept and condone the idea of dinosaur bones being that old.

Intelligent Design advocates (creationists in truth) and philosophers like Stephen C. Meyer who have no link to science, don't quite count as 'scientists'.

Hey, isn't football great?

(09-05-2012 11:51 AM)knucklehead Wrote:  Hey, isn't football great?

Football is great. Liberty "University" is not. Academics is supposed to be about studying and understanding the world around us. What Liberty does is the equivalent of hammering a square peg into a round hole.

(09-05-2012 07:14 AM)army56mike Wrote:  3) You will find many scientists worldwide who accept and condone the idea of dinosaur bones being that old.

This is why there is no FBS invite.

The problem I have with statements like these is the fact that you have zero first hand knowledge of academic environment at LU. Come on down and check it out and you will find otherwise. And it's still about football. I think our Linebackers can worship Jesus and then dominate your offense just fine.

(09-05-2012 01:16 PM)Bulldogs145 Wrote:  

(09-05-2012 11:51 AM)knucklehead Wrote:  Hey, isn't football great?

Football is great. Liberty "University" is not. Academics is supposed to be about studying and understanding the world around us. What Liberty does is the equivalent of hammering a square peg into a round hole.

(09-05-2012 02:09 PM)AtlanticLeague Wrote:  

(09-05-2012 07:14 AM)army56mike Wrote:  3) You will find many scientists worldwide who accept and condone the idea of dinosaur bones being that old.

This is why there is no FBS invite.

There are multiple reasons why there will not be a FBS invite for Liberty at this point.

1) Football related. Loser of a coach, no history of success at the FCS level, no discernable gain to your existing conference as far as fan excitement or reputation

2) Geography related. School is located in a small market. As a private school, it doesn't command the local market either. Private schools only get support from those attending or who have ties to the school.

3) Competition related. Appy, Ga Southern, Delaware, James Madison, Missouri State, Sam Houston, McNeese would all be more desirable to the conferences currently open to FCS moveups right now.

4) Purpose related. The conferences that are open to expansion are not in the business of promoting a religious or political agenda. They are in the business of promoting academic and athletic excellence.

5) Discrimination related. At every single CUSA, MAC, and Sun Belt school, evangelicals, Gays, non-Christians, Republicans, Democrats, Jews, Muslims, etc. can all contribute and participate in the full range of athletic, institutional, and academic life. At Liberty, that isn't possible.

6) Academics related. At every single CUSA, MAC, and Sun Belt school, generally accepted academic norms relating to science and diversity of opinion are accepted. At Liberty, that isn't the case.

7) Controversy related. Liberty engages in political posturing and religious postering to an extent not seen at any other FBS school, with the possible exception of a school left out from its desired conference choice, BYU. The University engages in highly questionable behaviors, such as calling out the Teletubbies as Gay, blaming Gay people for 9-11, hate mongering from its Liberty Counsel/Law School, and possible obstruction of justice (illegal acts) involving international child abduction.

8) Institutional control related. Liberty appears to be a dynasty, with the son of the founder succeding his father as Chancellor. Is Liberty a University or some families private property? Respected Universities don't hire based upon who your daddy was.

There are 8 areas that Liberty needs to address prior to moving up. If you had beaten Wake (which you didn't - but congrats on the close game), you would have taken a small step towards addressing issues 1 and 3 (although Appy played a close game at a FBS team too). But I think that actually winning a FCS playoff game would do you guys more good in those areas. You don't have control over issue 2. You do have control over issues 4-8. And as far as I can tell, you are no closer to addressing those issues than you were last year.

There ARE religious schools that play FBS. None of them (with the possible exception of BYU) behave like Liberty. And even a school with unquestionably good facilities, fan support, and demonstrated success on the field have been able to gain admission to the conference of its choice (BYU).

But this all kind of pointless unless Liberty can win some games.

Maybe for a conference like the Pac 10, Big 10, or maybe Big East, all of which seem pretty liberal to me anyway (I'm a conservative and proud of it), but as to the other conferences (excluding the SEC, Big XII-IV+II, & the ACC) I don't think so. What the other conferences are waiting for is for Liberty to show itself worthy of a FBS invite by having a good, consistent fanbase and good facilities as well as being a good draw. Also don't forget that Liberty is competing w/ TCU, Baylor, SMU, Wake Forest, Tulsa, etc. for evangelical fans.

(09-05-2012 02:48 PM)knucklehead Wrote:  The problem I have with statements like these is the fact that you have zero first hand knowledge of academic environment at LU. Come on down and check it out and you will find otherwise. And it's still about football. I think our Linebackers can worship Jesus and then dominate your offense just fine.

(09-05-2012 01:16 PM)Bulldogs145 Wrote:  

(09-05-2012 11:51 AM)knucklehead Wrote:  Hey, isn't football great?

Football is great. Liberty "University" is not. Academics is supposed to be about studying and understanding the world around us. What Liberty does is the equivalent of hammering a square peg into a round hole.

+1 on the bold.

(09-05-2012 02:55 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  Maybe for a conference like the Pac 10, Big 10, or maybe Big East, all of which seem pretty liberal to me anyway (I'm a conservative and proud of it), but as to the other conferences (excluding the SEC, Big XII-IV+II, & the ACC) I don't think so. What the other conferences are waiting for is for Liberty to show itself worthy of a FBS invite by having a good, consistent fanbase and good facilities as well as being a good draw. Also don't forget that Liberty is competing w/ TCU, Baylor, SMU, Wake Forest, Tulsa, etc. for evangelical fans.

TCU, Wake, Tulsa, and SMU aren't hugely evangelical. Really Liberty's proxy is BYU (although BYU does a much better job of keeping the cray-cray out of the papers). Baylor, while a discriminatory institution (you can't even work as a janitor if you are Muslim or UU for example), does allow some diversity of opinion, although it comes from a faculty that is 100 percent members of one religious tradition. I think Baylor would have trouble getting into the Big XII if it weren't already a member in today's environment.

Discrimination is a bigger deal nowadays.

Oddly enough, I think the Big East would consider a bid to BYU (although I think Uconn and Rutgers would be looking for the exits - they probably don't want to hang with a discriminatory institution). But BYU, unlike Liberty actually provided a lot to its former conference as far as athletic reputation and success. Liberty really hasn't shown itself to do much for the Big South.

Yea it's Tom! For those that don't know, Tom and I have beat this topic up and down on the SBC board, and I don't feel like doing it again.

Liberty is more desirable than you think. Just ask Bill Carr. We have made our wishes clear and have the funding and plans to back it up which puts us ahead of some in your competition list.

We shall see if Coach Gill is a loser Tom. I find it more likely that he was a victim of a disaster of a program left by Mangino.

It's clear that a small minority of folks around here just can't let there preconceived and yet unfounded opinions of LU go. I'm good with that though becuase the conference comissioners and ADs will actually do the research and not rely on a list made by a message board poster who has never been on LUs campus. I know reps from some conferences have been on campus.

(09-05-2012 03:34 PM)knucklehead Wrote:  Yea it's Tom! For those that don't know, Tom and I have beat this topic up and down on the SBC board, and I don't feel like doing it again.

Liberty is more desirable than you think. Just ask Bill Carr. We have made our wishes clear and have the funding and plans to back it up which puts us ahead of some in your competition list.

We shall see if Coach Gill is a loser Tom. I find it more likely that he was a victim of a disaster of a program left by Mangino.

It's clear that a small minority of folks around here just can't let there preconceived and yet unfounded opinions of LU go. I'm good with that though becuase the conference comissioners and ADs will actually do the research and not rely on a list made by a message board poster who has never been on LUs campus. I know reps from some conferences have been on campus.

I'd be surprised if the WAC and possibly the Belt haven't been to your campus. Make no mistake, you are an 'emergency' pick for the Sun Belt. But again, you're after at least three schools for the Sun Belt (JMU, Appy and Ga Southern) and you're probably after seven schools (McNeese, Lamar, NMSU and SHSU). I just don't see the Belt getting raided so badly that they'd have to take Liberty.

For the MAC, you're behind JMU, Delaware and probably Appy. And some of those schools in the MAC are going to raise more of a stink than the Belt would about Liberty's issues. I don't see the MAC getting raided by anyone. Perhaps, just perhaps, they could take you and JMU. I would think that JMU and perhaps Delaware would be the most likely result (other than the MAC taking no one).

For CUSA, you're behind...every team in the Sun Belt, NMSU, Appy, and JMU. I cannot think of a scenario that gets you guys a CUSA invite at this point. Unless CUSA breaks apart, with the Western teams merging with the MWC...And still, I see the Eastern CUSA filling out their roster with Sun Belt teams.

While kudos on your close loss last week at Wake, I don't think it changes much for y'all.

As far as my complaints about the discrimination at Liberty, you are free to point out the professors at Liberty that are openly Gay or openly Athiest, or openly in support of Gay rights. How about ANY that are voting for Obama? Or openly Muslim or openly Unitarian, etc. You are free to opine regarding the behavior of your Law school in the Lisa Miller child abduction case, or the comments of your Law professors Matt Barber and Matt Staver (the dean of your law school). Or the issue of nepotism in your hiring practices. I think Liberty's record speaks for itself. Any openly Gay students in relationships at Liberty? Any Muslim football players? Heck, do you have any Episcopalian professors (ECUSA not Akinolan Anglican) at Liberty?

Oh, I see Tom. If I don't believe in the things you believe in I am wrong and discriminatory. I got it.

Lets go Big East! Lets go UofL! Lets go Liberty! Lets go USF! Lets go little bitty Taylor U.!

(09-05-2012 04:24 PM)army56mike Wrote:  Oh, I see Tom. If I don't believe in the things you believe in I am wrong and discriminatory. I got it.

Lets go Big East! Lets go UofL! Lets go Liberty! Lets go USF! Lets go little bitty Taylor U.!

Yes, actually the definition of discriminatory would apply to Liberty's hiring, academic, and student selection process. You do not hire Gay professors. You do not hire liberal professors. You have no openly Gay students. You do not hire athiests.

You are free to argue that Liberty is correct to discriminate. We are free to argue otherwise. But what you aren't able to do is to argue that Liberty isn't being discriminatory.

Liberty is free to set its own policies (although in the future, they may have to do without taxpayer subsidies). But the Sun Belt, the MAC, CUSA, and have the same right to exclude institutions that discriminate on the basis of religion, political affiliation, and sexual orientation.

It's pointless with Tom, Mike. But I sure am glad all the sun belt schools would hire a Christian Prof who believes in Creationism. your type of discrimination is everywhere.

Tom, please be patient. In time the business of college football and the money and assets LU has will win an invite. i am confident. so prepare to be upset.

Can we please talk football with the rest of the folks on the board who aren't as hung up on LU as you? Thanks!

And by the way: JMU still has not publicly stated they want to go FBS, GaSo has funding and other $ issues. All of those schools you list will take time to give a conference and answer and LU will answer yes in less than 48 hours without any committees having to decide. We are higher up the food chain that you would be happy with.