(09-05-2012 03:34 PM)knucklehead Wrote:  Liberty is more desirable than you think. Just ask Bill Carr. We have made our wishes clear and have the funding and plans to back it up which puts us ahead of some in your competition list.

As I said before, Carr (who has tight ties as a Baptist himself) was ONLY examining Liberty's athletic department being ready (staffing, scholarships, Title IX), or near ready as far as future borrowing. He was not examining in-depth the additional attributes presidents and conferences will, or may have already looked at, regarding LU's academic ratings (poor), institutional attributes (worrisome), market (Lynchburg sure, but Roanoke a questionable claim with VaTech, unlike a UTSA/ODU), etc.

Liberty's FBS shot dies with the WAC-had the CAA been swift enough in acting, they could have created a puppet FBS league on their own terms-once Georgia State and Charlotte (and yes, I know Charlotte is not in the CAA), the critical mass for such a move was gone.

Unless if the 2-team WAC (Idaho to the Big Sky still isn't official) comes back from the dead, there are simply too many teams ahead of Liberty for them to make it to FBS.

WAC - NMSU, Denver*, Idaho, Seattle*, Georgia State, Charlotte, Old Dominion, Liberty, Lamar, Sam Houston, UTA*, UTPA*, plus football onlines Delaware, James Madison
C-USA - UTSA, UTEP, Rice, UNT, Tulsa, La Tech, Tulane, Southern Miss, UAB, FIU, ECU, Marshall
SBC - Texas State, Arkansas State, ULL, ULM, USA, Troy, WKU, Middle Tennesse, FAU, UALR*

CAA - Delaware*, Drexel*, George Mason*, Hofstra*, James Madison*, Northeastern*, Towson, UNCW*, William & Mary, plus football onlies Richmond, URI, Maine, UNH, Stony Brook, Villanova, and Albany
SLC - TAMUCC*, Stephen F. Austin, Incarnate Word, Abilene Christian, Houston Baptist ('14), Oral Roberts, Central Arkansas, New Orleans ('15), McNeese State, Nicholls State, Northwestern State, SE Louisiana

Given that the CAA would only have 2 members left in its FCS football league, it probably gets consumed by America East. But since the CAA couldn't get enough schools to move up in time, this won't happen.

LU's issue is simple. DMA ranking 66. The only shot for Liberty to go BCS is for another round of realignment that has Louisville and at least one other taken from the Big East and CUSA going to 16. The Sun Belt would need at least three replacements to consider LU.

(09-05-2012 04:47 PM)knucklehead Wrote:  It's pointless with Tom, Mike. But I sure am glad all the sun belt schools would hire a Christian Prof who believes in Creationism. your type of discrimination is everywhere.

Tom, please be patient. In time the business of college football and the money and assets LU has will win an invite. i am confident. so prepare to be upset.

Can we please talk football with the rest of the folks on the board who aren't as hung up on LU as you? Thanks!

And by the way: JMU still has not publicly stated they want to go FBS, GaSo has funding and other $ issues. All of those schools you list will take time to give a conference and answer and LU will answer yes in less than 48 hours without any committees having to decide. We are higher up the food chain that you would be happy with.

JMU and Appy would leave their conferences for the Sun Belt tomorrow. Georgia Southern would find the money (probably from your buddy Dan Cathy, a football patronizing alumni of Ga Southern) if they needed to. McNeese would find the money. SHSU would face a riot amongst its alumni if it didn't make the move if asked. Because after the Sun Belt just closed its window at 10 teams...and NMSU and Idaho got left hanging in the wind ...they all know, that they can't count on the Belt holding that window open. Especially with another moratorium on the horizon.

1) JMU - cant count on the MAC expanding. They didn't build that stadium for the FCS.
2) Appy - desperately wants to make the move. They'd prefer CUSA, but they know that isn't happening. At least the Belt makes some geographic sense.
3) Ga Southern - does have some money and facilities issues. But they know as a rural institution, that it would be now or never
4) SHSU - does have some money and facilities issues. They can find the money easily. They would provide more visibility in Houston than Rice does (more alumni in Houston and their school is 30 miles from the Houston metro area).
5) McNeese - might be blocked by Louisiana but they certainly have been more successful in FCS football than Liberty (and not just because they just beat MTSU).
6) Lamar - would have some stadium and money issues. My guess is that, due to geography and institutional fit (public), they'd get a shot at putting a deal together prior to Liberty.
7) Jacksonville St - might be blocked by Troy. I'm not a huge supporter of them being in the league as they are in a media hole.

And remember, UTA might be starting football soon as well. And NMSU is still out there hanging in the breeze.

Look, if the Belt loses 4 or more teams and the league is so decimated that Appy and Ga Southern and JMU turn the league down, which I don't see happening (and I doubt they would even if the league was decimated)...then Liberty might, just might, be seriously considered by the Sun Belt. And with no WAC, that's really your only ticket.

(09-05-2012 11:31 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  ...then Liberty might, just might, be seriously considered by the Sun Belt.

Coming from Tom in Lazybrook? WOW, can I get a witness!

(09-05-2012 06:40 PM)RecoveringHillbilly Wrote:  

(09-05-2012 03:34 PM)knucklehead Wrote:  Liberty is more desirable than you think. Just ask Bill Carr. We have made our wishes clear and have the funding and plans to back it up which puts us ahead of some in your competition list.

As I said before, Carr (who has tight ties as a Baptist himself) was ONLY examining Liberty's athletic department being ready (staffing, scholarships, Title IX), or near ready as far as future borrowing. He was not examining in-depth the additional attributes presidents and conferences will, or may have already looked at, regarding LU's academic ratings (poor), institutional attributes (worrisome), market (Lynchburg sure, but Roanoke a questionable claim with VaTech, unlike a UTSA/ODU), etc.

I would say you could include Liberty in the Roanoke market for whatever thats worth. The ABC affiliate here is actually out of Lynchburg rather than Roanoke and is more Lynchburg-centric than the other stations. Of course the Hokies rule the roost here.

(09-06-2012 10:43 AM)Liberty Fan Wrote:  

(09-05-2012 11:31 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  ...then Liberty might, just might, be seriously considered by the Sun Belt.

Coming from Tom in Lazybrook? WOW, can I get a witness!

What, Tom loves LU. I assure you he doesn't see it happening.

The problem for him is that there are a ton of other moves still to happen. When they do in the next few years, LU will find a FBS home and some on his list will still be FCS.

Guess what? Liberty and App St. are going to the Sun Belt!

(09-06-2012 01:17 PM)army56mike Wrote:  Guess what? Liberty and App St. are going to the Sun Belt!

Is that right?

(09-06-2012 10:43 AM)Liberty Fan Wrote:  

(09-05-2012 11:31 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  ...then Liberty might, just might, be seriously considered by the Sun Belt.

Coming from Tom in Lazybrook? WOW, can I get a witness!

Yes, if

1) The Sun Belt loses 3+ teams.
2) Appy, and JMU have already been taken by the MAC
3) Louisiana blocks Lamar as a member
4) Troy blocks Jacksonville State as a member
5) SHSU says "no thanks, were gonna stay FCS forever"
6) NMSU is already back in FCS and wants to stay there
7) Louisiana blocks McNeese as a member
8) Missouri State is in the MAC or is uninterested in jumping
9) The NCAA still allows conference moveups

Then, and only then, would the Sun Belt seriously consider Liberty.

First, the Sun Belt isn't likely to lose three teams anytime soon. MTSU is going to blow chunks this year. What 3 teams are we going to lose? Perhaps Texas State to the MWC, FAU to CUSA (very unlikely), WKU to the MAC (also unlikely).

The other problem is that if the Belt loses teams, unless the MAC or CUSA decide to grow to immense sizes, the teams in front of Liberty in the desirability order will likely still be available. Georgia Southern would go ... today. If the MAC manages to entice WKU, then Appy would probably be left for us to take (and they would go).

I see the Big East taking teams from the West. Of course if they only take one more and that team is BYU, it changes nothing. But if BYU says no, they might take a team from the MWC. And that means the Mountain West will be looking for more teams. They could try to take Texas State, but Texas State could look at whats left of the MWC in such a scenario, and say, 'yes you're conference is better, but we're good here in the Belt'. And furthermore, the MWC could just take NMSU or Idaho, which then stops the dominos. And then there's UMass, which would be a potential candidate for Big East expansion. That would mean the MAC would probably just stand pat (and would probably not go after anyone - they would still have 12 teams) as WKU would probably say no thanks to a bid and JMU would then be an extreme outlier (this case is the worst possible scenario for you guys as it would make Appy and JMU understand in no uncertain terms that the Sun Belt is their only shot at this). The Belt has already made it crystal clear that they will not take moveups unless they are a geographic fit or they absolutely have to. Benson wanted to go to 12 (not with Liberty btw). The SBC Presidents said "no thanks". I'm not seeing the Liberty to the Belt scenario as something that is likely in the forseeable future.

Yes there is a chance that the Sun Belt would have to take Liberty, as there were no other options available. But that chance is really, really small.

What Liberty should hope for is for

1) The Sun Belt moveups (including Georgia State) get real competitive really quickly

2) Appy and Georgia Southern end up with a scandal or a huge loss in their endowments

3) The MAC decided to take JMU

4) NMSU decides to move down to FCS or Texas State decides to bolt for the MWC (both unlikely at this point)

5) The CUSA decides to expand to 16 teams, and does so by taking Sun Belt teams

6) Lamar, McNeese, and SHSU all fall apart as programs

7) ESPN decides to pay the Belt a ton of money (even after it has been depleted) for a championship game.

8) Somehow the MAC decides to go to 16 teams, and does so by enticing WKU as one of the teams.

That's your list of things that you should be looking for.

(09-06-2012 01:17 PM)army56mike Wrote:  Guess what? Liberty and App St. are going to the Sun Belt!

Preminition?

Tom, I only have one more thing to say. I love how you report your "teams in line in front of LU" as if it's fact. You have no idea of the SBCs pecking order. Let's just wait and see.

(09-06-2012 03:12 PM)knucklehead Wrote:  

(09-06-2012 01:17 PM)army56mike Wrote:  Guess what? Liberty and App St. are going to the Sun Belt!

Preminition?

No its predetermined

I think if the Sun Belt gets back into Virginia it would be with VCU, under the stipulation of the Rams starting FBS play. VCU was a former member of the Belt with Old Dominion.

(09-06-2012 05:13 PM)chargeradio Wrote:  I think if the Sun Belt gets back into Virginia it would be with VCU, under the stipulation of the Rams starting FBS play. VCU was a former member of the Belt with Old Dominion.

Yes, VCU along with ODU were members of the SBC in the 80's. VCU is in the A-10. They're not coming back.

I don't see the Belt going to Virginia. They might have for ODU. They only go back if its a JMU/Appy combo. If the MAC takes JMU, they're not going back to VA unless they absolutely have no other option. The Belt appears to be consolodating in its current footprint.

The states of NC and VA would create some really nice inroads for the Sun Belt. They'd have pieces of states that even the SEC or Big East haven't touched yet.

and... word on the street is that Liberty's Williams stadium will begin expansion to 30,000 following this football season.

(09-06-2012 06:54 PM)army56mike Wrote:  The states of NC and VA would create some really nice inroads for the Sun Belt. They'd have pieces of states that even the SEC or Big East haven't touched yet.

and... word on the street is that Liberty's Williams stadium will begin expansion to 30,000 following this football season.

Congrats on the proposed football stadium expansion. It will be a great venue for your continued rivalry with Elon. And if Liberty ever makes the FCS playoffs again, perhaps it will be a nice venue for a home playoff game.

The Belt tried to expand into other areas, areas with no competition from the AQ's at all (save UC-Boulder). It was an expensive disaster. We expanded into Colorado, New Mexico, Utah, and Idaho.

There's a reason why the Belt stopped at 10 rather than taking NMSU or Appy (along with Ga Southern) to go to 12. One major reason....travel costs and regional fit. If Appy or NMSU were in Jackson, Miss, the Belt would be at 12 teams. But they aren't.

The SBC Presidents have been quite clear about not wanting to expand beyond their Florida to Texas footprint.

The good news is that this thread is not in the SBC forum and it's discussion is not limited to the SBC. Tom seems to want to make it about that and his obvious agenda against LU.

My point is that a lot of dominoes are still to fall and Liberty will get an FBS invite sooner rather than later. Where? I don't know. There are discussions that are ongoing with at least 3 conferences, and these things take time. New spots will open.

(09-07-2012 08:32 AM)knucklehead Wrote:  The good news is that this thread is not in the SBC forum and it's discussion is not limited to the SBC. Tom seems to want to make it about that and his obvious agenda against LU.

My point is that a lot of dominoes are still to fall and Liberty will get an FBS invite sooner rather than later. Where? I don't know. There are discussions that are ongoing with at least 3 conferences, and these things take time. New spots will open.

Which 3 conferences?

WAC, MAC, SBC?

I've heard MAC, SBC, CUSA.