(12-21-2012 09:25 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  UNLV = 14 to 16 team all sports league. UNLV has no assets at this point to bring to the league as FB only. I have no problem with UNLV. No western team would have easier and cheaper travel access for away games than UNLV.

Yes they do. They have name recognition, money they're investing into their program, a good western market, and the western schools like them.

I can also understand the resistance to rushing into a full western all-sports. For one thing Houston, SMU probably want to play hoops in the east. Football only gives the league time to work through a lot of other issues.

(12-21-2012 07:19 AM)TripleA Wrote:  Talking to UNLV is encouraging, if that means we're talking all sports. Surely we wouldn't be trying to get them for football only, would we?

I could see a deal where they come in for football only for the short time the C7 are still playing in the conference then go full member. Otherwise they'd be dumb to come in for football only IMO ... their basketball is too valuable.

This kind of ticks me off as a C7 guy. Why did we have to rush to leave instead of waiting to see what the outcome of all this is.
Realistically you a very strong two division league in basketball with the
UCONN, UC, Temple, Providence, St. Johns, Seaton Hall, USF, UCF, G`Town & Nova

and

BYU, UNLV, Memphis, Marquette, SMU, Houston, Fresno, Boise, Tulane, & SDST

Each division has built in hammers and present day under performers.

I know this is not My daddy's Big East but I really think the RPI at the very least get evened out with UNLV, Memphis, SDST, Temple and with other programs mainly SMU, Tulane, Providence, St. Johns, UCF committed to the hoops.

There has to be evidence of a really bad tv deal or why rush?

(12-21-2012 10:37 AM)FriarTuck420 Wrote:  This kind of ticks me off as a C7 guy. Why did we have to rush to leave instead of waiting to see what the outcome of all this is.
Realistically you a very strong two division league in basketball with the
UCONN, UC, Temple, Providence, St. Johns, Seaton Hall, USF, UCF, G`Town & Nova

and

BYU, UNLV, Memphis, Marquette, SMU, Houston, Fresno, Boise, Tulane, & SDST

Each division has built in hammers and present day under performers.

I know this is not My daddy's Big East but I really think the RPI at the very least get evened out with UNLV, Memphis, SDST, Temple and with other programs mainly SMU, Tulane, Providence, St. Johns, UCF committed to the hoops.

There has to be evidence of a really bad tv deal or why rush?

If I'm one of the C7, I make the same move at the same time, if not earlier. If they feel like they can get comparable money without the headache of the realignment game every two months, then why not? Couple that with the fact that there's been long standing resentment between the bball and football splitn in the BE, and I think the time had come. I agree, that this proposed league could have worked in both bball and football; however, there were so many other factors at play. The time had come for the inevitable.

(12-21-2012 10:37 AM)FriarTuck420 Wrote:  This kind of ticks me off as a C7 guy. Why did we have to rush to leave instead of waiting to see what the outcome of all this is.
Realistically you a very strong two division league in basketball with the
UCONN, UC, Temple, Providence, St. Johns, Seaton Hall, USF, UCF, G`Town & Nova

and

BYU, UNLV, Memphis, Marquette, SMU, Houston, Fresno, Boise, Tulane, & SDST

Each division has built in hammers and present day under performers.

I know this is not My daddy's Big East but I really think the RPI at the very least get evened out with UNLV, Memphis, SDST, Temple and with other programs mainly SMU, Tulane, Providence, St. Johns, UCF committed to the hoops.

There has to be evidence of a really bad tv deal or why rush?

I think it's less about the TV deal and more about you guys knowing that expansion is never going to end and that it's all related to football. The C7 would have to continue to deal with the instability that is completely unrelated to them. You guys can leave now, add the best non-FB playing schools out there, and have a very solid and stable league that won't have to deal with constantly shifting membership.

(12-21-2012 09:43 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(12-21-2012 09:22 AM)TWCoog Wrote:  Things have changed since byu went independent. ND was able to secure its spot in the playoffs that are coming and the other top bowls, byu did not. Some of you will say byu doesn't care about that, but if they are locked out, they will lose exposure, prestige and top recruits. I'm sure the byu folks that pay and support their football team still want to be competitive. The BE/metro/NAC gives them security.

Actually, absolutely nothing has changed for BYU. This has been something that has been overstated by people with an interest in BYU changing its mind. The only way that they can get a guaranteed BCS bowl bid in the current system is to be in the top 2 and qualify for the national championship. They gave up access to the non-AQ top 12/16 bid. Likewise, in the new system, the only way that they can get a guaranteed top bowl bid is to finish in the top 4 and they won't have access to the "Gang of Five" bid which is a slightly better version of the current non-AQ bid (but not exactly the "Wow! Auto-bid!" that many people are making it out to be). You're basically asking BYU to change its mind based on an auto-bid that requires you to be the top ranked out of 60-plus Gang of Five teams (and if you don't think that rankings will heavily track losses as opposed to SOS for the Gang of Five group, you haven't been paying attention - see the MAC this year). It's not that material to them. BYU was barely even considering the Big East when it still had Louisville and Rutgers and people were legitimately talking about $100 million TV contracts for the league. As a result perplexes me why BYU is still even brought up as an option now other than newspaper writers (as the OP article does exactly) like tossing in BYU as "an unlikely candidate but if they were included, the league would make more money" reference to get more attention just as they do when mentioning Notre Dame in realignment articles. I guess anything is possible in conference realignment in theory, but BYU is going to be the white whale for the Gang of Five leagues just as ND is the white whale for the power conferences, so there's little point in discussing them as an option outside of fantasy purposes.

Frank,

Once the BE is done stripping the MWC, there will be no gang of 5. Only in ESPN lingo. The BE will be by far the best of the rest and BYU would be smart to be a part of that with the exception of an invite from the Big 12 which will probably never come. The money will be too big of a gap and over time because of that, the BE will always be closer to the auto-conf. and not the gang of 4. And BYU was ready to jump to the BE a year ago but wanted TV numbers first that couldn't be given. If Aresco is still talking to them, it means they are listening. I know you like to be the voice of realism for us new bigeasters but we can't just throw BYU out just yet, espcially since they are still listening.

(12-21-2012 10:15 AM)Carolina Stang Wrote:  Dakar noir - give me evidence of your statement that no one is listening. Or, like every other message board poster, are you just spitballing ideas to support your hopeful outcome?

What is actually quite apparent?

Unless you are privy to some information which the rest of us are not (and I highly doubt that you are).

the proof as they say, is in the pudding. Adding Tulane and "talking" to western schools. They've been "talking" to western schools for a year now.

(12-21-2012 10:37 AM)FriarTuck420 Wrote:  This kind of ticks me off as a C7 guy. Why did we have to rush to leave instead of waiting to see what the outcome of all this is.
Realistically you a very strong two division league in basketball with the
UCONN, UC, Temple, Providence, St. Johns, Seaton Hall, USF, UCF, G`Town & Nova

and

BYU, UNLV, Memphis, Marquette, SMU, Houston, Fresno, Boise, Tulane, & SDST

Each division has built in hammers and present day under performers.

I know this is not My daddy's Big East but I really think the RPI at the very least get evened out with UNLV, Memphis, SDST, Temple and with other programs mainly SMU, Tulane, Providence, St. Johns, UCF committed to the hoops.

There has to be evidence of a really bad tv deal or why rush?

It is evidence of a bad TV deal--the ESPN exclusive negotiation window ended, and the skies did not open up and rain $100M+ offers from Comcast, Fox, Turner and CBS.

I wonder if a reason why BYU may wind up looking is if the C7 goes big and grabs Gonzaga and St Mary's. If that happened, the WCC is decimated and probably not all that attractive for BYU at that point.

(12-21-2012 11:05 AM)stever20 Wrote:  I wonder if a reason why BYU may wind up looking is if the C7 goes big and grabs Gonzaga and St Mary's. If that happened, the WCC is decimated and probably not all that attractive for BYU at that point.

If that happens, why doesn't BYU go with the C-7? If there's a formula for St Marys and Gonzaga to either haul womens volleyball from Seton Hall to Spokane and beyond, or to get around, it, I think the deep pockets in Provo could swing it too.

(12-21-2012 11:14 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(12-21-2012 11:05 AM)stever20 Wrote:  I wonder if a reason why BYU may wind up looking is if the C7 goes big and grabs Gonzaga and St Mary's. If that happened, the WCC is decimated and probably not all that attractive for BYU at that point.

If that happens, why doesn't BYU go with the C-7? If there's a formula for St Marys and Gonzaga to either haul womens volleyball from Seton Hall to Spokane and beyond, or to get around, it, I think the deep pockets in Provo could swing it too.

For one, the ability to in the BE get a BCS spot as a G5 team would be fairly signifigant.

(12-21-2012 08:09 AM)Yoda Wrote:  If I'm the MWC, my strategy is to keep Fresno and UNLV by capturing BYU. Do that, and Boise and San Diego come back.

So how do they capture BYU?

Basically, you give them whatever they want. Let them keep their ESPN contract and (if I recall correctly) let them re-broadcast BYU's conference away games, a CBS product, on the BYU network. CBS might not be thrilled with that idea but they still add to inventory by getting BYU's conference games that are played on the road and that's a net gain.

Get BYU and they have a much better chance of keeping Fresno and UNLV. Capture and keep those three and I think that SDSU and BSU come back.

And then go on the offensive. Go after UConn and Cincy for football only -- by promising to waive exit fees and long time notification requirements if they go to a Big Five conference. That frees them up to join the Catholic 7 in other than football -- which is where they would much rather be. The MWC doesn't have to keep those two schools forever -- just long enough to wound the nBE sufficiently that the MWC can take from the nBE while the nBE is no longer strong enough to take from the MWC.

The ability to at least attempt this is almost entirely a function of CBS's willingness to put real money on the table. So how much progress is "substantial progress"? I guess we will find out...

Yoda out...

With all due respect, its much more likely the Big East is employing the same BYU strategy . . . the chances are much stronger in favor of the Big East pulling this off rather than the MWC if the Big East chooses to do it. . . if the MWC employed this stratgey, it would essentially call the Big East's hand and the Big East would be left with no choice but to respond with the same deal to BYU . . . BYU wants a "national" presence . . . the Big East (or BIG, Big XII, etc.) could move the needle for BYU significantly, if as you say, the Big East/MWC essentially gives BYU every thing it wants . . . the MWC not so much. . .

(12-21-2012 10:14 AM)KnightLight Wrote:  

(12-21-2012 10:08 AM)dakar1 Wrote:  Aresco has been talking to BYU and AF, now Fresno and UNLV and probably others. He must be getting blue in the face because so far nobody's really listening. I don't think the BE has enough to offer these schools, its actually quite apparent.

Don't think thats the case at all....believe most schools are listening...and some (i.e. BYU, Air Force, Fresno et al), want to see what the actual TV $$$ will be (for most, maybe footbal only, maybe all-sports) and then they will decide whats best for them.

Zero need to "rush" an answer now...as Big East will already have 12 plus members in 2013 and will be playing a conf championship game.

Exactly ^^^... and with the D7 (departure7) out, Aresco will now virtuously shift his focus at tv negotiations with zero distractions.

I can't believe that BYU is happy with there hoops playing in the WCC. Almost no exposure is provided and outside of Gonzaga the conference stinks. BYU may be very interested in an all sports membership. The nBE is lookin to be a 4-5 bid BBall league and if we smarten up and add an all sports western division with SDSU, UNLV, and maybe BYU we will be stronger than the PAC12 in basketball and a top 5 Bball league.

BYU is an odd spot right now. They are outside the major bowl system but they also don't need a conference to earn a nice TV deal. Reaching out to UNLV would be first sign that an all sports conference could be in the cards. Contacting Fresno State and only adding them probably keeps 10/14 in play.

I expect to see a TV deal plus a new addition within the next month or so.

(12-21-2012 10:03 AM)Bull Wrote:  

(12-21-2012 09:35 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(12-21-2012 09:22 AM)TWCoog Wrote:  Things have changed since byu went independent. ND was able to secure its spot in the playoffs that are coming and the other top bowls, byu did not. Some of you will say byu doesn't care about that, but if they are locked out, they will lose exposure, prestige and top recruits. I'm sure the byu folks that pay and support their football team still want to be competitive. The BE/metro/NAC gives them security.

Aresco is going to leave a spot open for BYU or AFA fb only to be able to come in with Navy in 2015. He will continue to work on them until all efforts are exhausted. If UNLV and Fresno are added then it would be the end of the league expansion for a while. Aresco knows just how valuable BYU and AFA would be to the league.

We're at 13/9 including Navy... I figured we'd add a single school out west, stop at 14, and keep future spots 15 and 16 for the eventually AFA/BYU. If we're talking to Fresno and UNLV, I wonder if we're just going to go for 16, and either assume more defections, or if AFA/BYU come onboard just push to 18. That's getting ridiculously big IMHO.

I really don't want to move beyond 14. I wonder if Fresno held for 2x additions out west as a condition of joining?

I agree...I would rather stay at 14 unless BYU is involved. Aresco does though seem to be hinting that he wants to be commissioner of the first super 16 conference. I'm afraid that if we go to 16 that it will spur another round of realignment in which everyone goes to 16. At that point, we lose UC and UConn. I guess it is going to eventually happen anyway. You might as well get it over with now. You could replace them with UMass..move Tulane back east and add a decent product in the West Eventually UC and UConn will leave and I don't blame them.

The Big 16 will eventually look like the CUSA/MW merger plan with some X divisional play. It is pretty much inevitable.

(12-21-2012 11:28 AM)mwp1023 Wrote:  I can't believe that BYU is happy with there hoops playing in the WCC. Almost no exposure is provided and outside of Gonzaga the conference stinks. BYU may be very interested in an all sports membership. The nBE is lookin to be a 4-5 bid BBall league and if we smarten up and add an all sports western division with SDSU, UNLV, and maybe BYU we will be stronger than the PAC12 in basketball and a top 5 Bball league.

Wcc is a very good b ball league guy. They sent 3 teams to the NCAA tourney last year.

Gu
St Mary's
Byu

(12-21-2012 11:31 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(12-21-2012 10:03 AM)Bull Wrote:  

(12-21-2012 09:35 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(12-21-2012 09:22 AM)TWCoog Wrote:  Things have changed since byu went independent. ND was able to secure its spot in the playoffs that are coming and the other top bowls, byu did not. Some of you will say byu doesn't care about that, but if they are locked out, they will lose exposure, prestige and top recruits. I'm sure the byu folks that pay and support their football team still want to be competitive. The BE/metro/NAC gives them security.

Aresco is going to leave a spot open for BYU or AFA fb only to be able to come in with Navy in 2015. He will continue to work on them until all efforts are exhausted. If UNLV and Fresno are added then it would be the end of the league expansion for a while. Aresco knows just how valuable BYU and AFA would be to the league.

We're at 13/9 including Navy... I figured we'd add a single school out west, stop at 14, and keep future spots 15 and 16 for the eventually AFA/BYU. If we're talking to Fresno and UNLV, I wonder if we're just going to go for 16, and either assume more defections, or if AFA/BYU come onboard just push to 18. That's getting ridiculously big IMHO.

I really don't want to move beyond 14. I wonder if Fresno held for 2x additions out west as a condition of joining?

I agree...I would rather stay at 14 unless BYU is involved. Aresco does though seem to be hinting that he wants to be commissioner of the first super 16 conference. I'm afraid that if we go to 16 that it will spur another round of realignment in which everyone goes to 16. At that point, we lose UC and UConn. I guess it is going to eventually happen anyway. You might as well get it over with now. You could replace them with UMass..move Tulane back east and add a decent product in the West Eventually UC and UConn will leave and I don't blame them.

The Big 16 will eventually look like the CUSA/MW merger plan with some X divisional play. It is pretty much inevitable.

What I'm thinking as well. Replace uconn and Cincy with unm and umass and let tu go east

(12-21-2012 11:22 AM)stever20 Wrote:  For one, the ability to in the BE get a BCS spot as a G5 team would be fairly signifigant.

Less than you'd think--BYU would have to be the top G-5 team, so top 15-20, but not good enough to be top 7-8 and go to an Access Bowl anyway.

A bigger reason would probably be ordinary bowl bids.

(12-21-2012 11:34 AM)EDLUVAR Wrote:  

(12-21-2012 11:28 AM)mwp1023 Wrote:  I can't believe that BYU is happy with there hoops playing in the WCC. Almost no exposure is provided and outside of Gonzaga the conference stinks. BYU may be very interested in an all sports membership. The nBE is lookin to be a 4-5 bid BBall league and if we smarten up and add an all sports western division with SDSU, UNLV, and maybe BYU we will be stronger than the PAC12 in basketball and a top 5 Bball league.

Wcc is a very good b ball league guy. They sent 3 teams to the NCAA tourney last year.

Gu
St Mary's
Byu

No question they have a few strong programs; however, there's no way they can offer as much exposure as the nBE.