(07-26-2013 07:09 PM)jaredf29 Wrote:  

(07-26-2013 05:41 PM)SMUmustangs Wrote:  

(07-26-2013 03:47 PM)jaredf29 Wrote:  It's the playoff committee that will determine if thy expand or not. During conference championship week the committee will determine the four going, which people have to think who they're going to take? That week or more is a long time to mull it over. Who do you take an undefeated Texas or a one loss SEC, ACC, pac12, or Big10 team emerging from a conference championship game? I'm inclined to think the nod will go to champion.

er ah....Texas would be a conference champion, if that is the way the nod goes.

Do you really believe an undefeated Texas being a conference champion while playing a nine game conference schedule plus Notre Dame and in some years non-conference games with Southern Cal etc. will not be ranked in the top four?

I am inclined to think the nod will go to Texas.

That's operating under the assumption that the sec only had 1 of the 4 teams as we saw before its possible for two. Otherwise I'd agree

No, I am not assuming only one SEC school. I am saying Texas as an undefeated, Big12 champ and having beaten Notre Dame will not be left out of the top four by a one loss team from the ACC, Big or PAC and most likley not a one loss SEC team..

(07-26-2013 10:59 AM)NBPirate Wrote:  ECU still has Chuck Neinas on the payroll for a reason. We are Oliver Luck's first pick and he has been lobbying for our inclusion if such a move were made. I heard this from the horses mouth.

Doesn't help the WV island. UConn is about as close and a lot easier to fly into. ECU makes no more sense than adding a western team.

(07-26-2013 04:41 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  

(07-25-2013 08:27 PM)john01992 Wrote:  based on some common logic & discussions on this board it appears that cincy as the #11 team really is the only option

The Big <12 does not have to expand right now, nor anytime soon ("soon" = next 4-5 years). Barring a decision by Texas to join the Pac-12 or some other weird/unexpected event like that, I think the B<12 will hold still for at least 6 years.

If the B<12 decides to expand, they will have several legitimate options. Cincinnati would definitely be one of them, but not the only one and probably not the first one. BYU provides the greatest overall strength in terms of (a) budget/facilities; (b) fan support/media interest, both locally and nationwide; and (c.) proven competitiveness over a sustained period of time in football. The only reasons to exclude them are purely social/political. Such considerations are not unimportant, but they do have a way of getting resolved when doing so is to the mutual financial benefit of all parties concerned.

If it was only social/political, BYU would have been in the Big 12 already, probably in place of WVU, maybe with WVU and UL. No Sunday play causes a lot of restructuring of schedules and championships. Message board chatter was that Fox was very opposed to that. There were lots of talks with BYU. Everyone acknowledges that. There were also a lot of stories, especially on BYU boards that BYU network wanting prompt fb replays was an impediment for Fox and ESPN, but BYU's AD indicated that wasn't true.

(07-26-2013 09:31 PM)SMUmustangs Wrote:  

(07-26-2013 07:09 PM)jaredf29 Wrote:  

(07-26-2013 05:41 PM)SMUmustangs Wrote:  

(07-26-2013 03:47 PM)jaredf29 Wrote:  It's the playoff committee that will determine if thy expand or not. During conference championship week the committee will determine the four going, which people have to think who they're going to take? That week or more is a long time to mull it over. Who do you take an undefeated Texas or a one loss SEC, ACC, pac12, or Big10 team emerging from a conference championship game? I'm inclined to think the nod will go to champion.

er ah....Texas would be a conference champion, if that is the way the nod goes.

Do you really believe an undefeated Texas being a conference champion while playing a nine game conference schedule plus Notre Dame and in some years non-conference games with Southern Cal etc. will not be ranked in the top four?

I am inclined to think the nod will go to Texas.

That's operating under the assumption that the sec only had 1 of the 4 teams as we saw before its possible for two. Otherwise I'd agree

No, I am not assuming only one SEC school. I am saying Texas as an undefeated, Big12 champ and having beaten Notre Dame will not be left out of the top four by a one loss team from the ACC, Big or PAC and most likley not a one loss SEC team..

Do you think it'll require an undefeated team from the big12 to make into the four?

(07-26-2013 10:29 PM)bullet Wrote:  No Sunday play causes a lot of restructuring of schedules and championships. Message board chatter was that Fox was very opposed to that.

Fox?

Fox only has rights to Big 12 football, and Sunday play isn't an issue there. Fox doesn't have any "national cable" rights to Big 12 hoops, ESPN does.

(07-26-2013 10:29 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(07-26-2013 04:41 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  The only reasons to exclude [BYU] are purely social/political. Such considerations are not unimportant, but they do have a way of getting resolved when doing so is to the mutual financial benefit of all parties concerned.

If it was only social/political, BYU would have been in the Big 12 already, probably in place of WVU, maybe with WVU and UL.

Total disagreement. WVU is historically equal to (or superior to) BYU in terms of support/strength/fan-interest, etc. UL is historically inferior to BYU, but has come up in the world very rapidly the past 10-15 years. So the B<12 had other options that were comparable to BYU and did not have the complicating side-issues that BYU has.

Now, the remaining possibilities are all clearly Not equal to BYU by any objective criteria. They may become equal as time goes by, or even surpass BYU. But as of right now, that hasn't happened. BYU is in a much stronger position than any football program that is not Notre Dame, or in one of the P5.

Quote:No Sunday play causes a lot of restructuring of schedules and championships.

It's a hassle, yes. But it Can be worked out, If the parties want to. And if they don't want to, then it's all moot, anyway.

(07-26-2013 07:30 PM)FreshPrinceOfDarkness Wrote:  

(07-26-2013 07:18 PM)Poliicious Wrote:  If Texas leaves they are going Indy and not bringing anyonelse with them. What other conference would want OK, OK St, TT & TCU? The 11 programs would be much better off sticking together and adding Cincy, UCF & USF gives the conference a greatly enhanced recruiting footprint along with access to 3 decent media markets in Orlando, Tampa & Cincy.

The PAC. After Scott lost patience with Dodd's crap during the last dance with PAC, Scott prepared to invite TECH/OU/OSU and either KU or Mizzou. Dodds freaked and called ESPN. Together they killed the move. Dodds told Scott that UT legislators would prevent Tech from leaving the B12 without UT. It wasn't a bluff. UT currently has more power than Tech in the Texas legislature. ESPN blocked the move by the Okie schools and KU or Mizzou. ESPN simply told Scott it wouldn't increase the PAC's tv contract if it added schools without adding UT. The PAC schools wanted to expand to increase their revenue, not take a haircut, so that killed the move. That's what happened. And no, there is no public record of these events. However, I bet someday a book will describe exactly what happened and it will match this post.

EDIT: Nobody in Tecas cares what happens to TCU except for the small number of Frog fans. The Texas Legislature informally approved UT/Tech/OU/OSU going to the PAC without Baylor so TCU is screwed too.

Thanks Fresh. I have told that same story on this board and was laughed at. ESPN is key in keeping the Big 12 together as long as they see fit. OU and Oklahoma St tried to leave and were told NO by the PAC 12.

UT will not accept piss poor schools who can't put 30K in the stands on a regular basis. UT will not play in a conference that includes commuter schools who can't put 30K in the stands with out a major player coming to town.

Fresh, do you subscribe to RRS? Good info on that site. I previously hated that site because of their undying love towards to pine box and their hatred towards Leach. Fortunately, they knew Tech needed a change and they recognize the energy in the Tech fan base since Kliff was hired.

(07-25-2013 08:56 PM)CincyBro Wrote:  

(07-25-2013 08:33 PM)jml2010 Wrote:  West Virginia exeperienced some growing pains in their 1st year in the Big 12 but I see no reason to add a school or schools that have trouble averaging 30K per game for a season.

If the Big 12 is FORCED to expand, I would rather look at the ECU and USF. As others mentioned in the other thread, UCF and USF wouldn't be bad additions.

I see no reason to join a league that plays games in nowhereland,aka Lubbock. What's with the HARDON for UC, every other post you make is exactly the same, still trying to figure out what Tech has ever done on the national stage in any sport. If there was anything else to do in that god forsaken part of the country you people call home ,my guess is your averages would drop significantly, I think UC drew more to PBS when Oklahoma and Ohio State came to town than your stadium holds.

a Cincinnati fan trying to put down the Big 12 while still stuck in the AAC

how cute

(07-26-2013 07:11 PM)Poliicious Wrote:  

(07-25-2013 08:35 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(07-25-2013 08:33 PM)jml2010 Wrote:  West Virginia exeperienced some growing pains in their 1st year in the Big 12 but I see no reason to add a school or schools that have trouble averaging 30K per game for a season.

If the Big 12 is FORCED to expand, I would rather look at the ECU and USF. As others mentioned in the other thread, UCF and USF wouldn't be bad additions.

imo all those two schools do is add another island to the b12.

Florida is a pretty nice island, especially for football recruiting. When the B12 adds Ohio & Florida to their recruiting footprint you will see a higher quality of play in football, hoops and baseball in the B12.

Adding Cincy, UCF & maybe USF would also help keep the B12 together should Texas decide to go Indy.

The ACC has had Florida in its "recruiting footprint" for 20+ years and how much good has it done them versus the other AQ conferences? Sure, Miami and FSU land loads of Florida talent but how does that benefit NC State? And how will adding UCF and USF help Kansas and Texas Tech there?

Just because a conference has a school in a state doesn't mean it meaningfully penetrates that state for recruiting purposes. As a USF fan, I can assure you that the most common thing that happens when a 4 or 5 star recruit emerges in the Tampa Bay area is that ... they sign with Florida, FSU, Alabama, Auburn, or Georgia.

(07-27-2013 12:17 AM)Theodoresdaddy Wrote:  

(07-25-2013 08:56 PM)CincyBro Wrote:  

(07-25-2013 08:33 PM)jml2010 Wrote:  West Virginia exeperienced some growing pains in their 1st year in the Big 12 but I see no reason to add a school or schools that have trouble averaging 30K per game for a season.

If the Big 12 is FORCED to expand, I would rather look at the ECU and USF. As others mentioned in the other thread, UCF and USF wouldn't be bad additions.

I see no reason to join a league that plays games in nowhereland,aka Lubbock. What's with the HARDON for UC, every other post you make is exactly the same, still trying to figure out what Tech has ever done on the national stage in any sport. If there was anything else to do in that god forsaken part of the country you people call home ,my guess is your averages would drop significantly, I think UC drew more to PBS when Oklahoma and Ohio State came to town than your stadium holds.

a Cincinnati fan trying to put down the Big 12 while still stuck in the AAC

how cute

Amen

Im not a UC fan but to call out their attendance is crazy. If you do a 250 mile radius around Cincinnati and the same for Lubbock you will see why Tech has more fans not to mention the area to build a stadium that size. UC has to compete with 7 NFL teams and at least 19 FBS schools.

(07-27-2013 01:27 AM)ilovegymnast Wrote:  Im not a UC fan but to call out their attendance is crazy. If you do a 250 mile radius around Cincinnati and the same for Lubbock you will see why Tech has more fans not to mention the area to build a stadium that size. UC has to compete with 7 NFL teams and at least 19 FBS schools.

Lubbock is literally in the middle of nowhere. Nothing but tumbleweeds in all directions for what seems like forever. You drive 250 miles around Lubbock and you encompass its twin-sister in nowhereville, Amarillo, about 120 miles away and that's about it.

If I were trying to draw fans, I'd rather be in Cincinnati.

(07-26-2013 10:39 PM)jaredf29 Wrote:  

(07-26-2013 09:31 PM)SMUmustangs Wrote:  

(07-26-2013 07:09 PM)jaredf29 Wrote:  

(07-26-2013 05:41 PM)SMUmustangs Wrote:  

(07-26-2013 03:47 PM)jaredf29 Wrote:  It's the playoff committee that will determine if thy expand or not. During conference championship week the committee will determine the four going, which people have to think who they're going to take? That week or more is a long time to mull it over. Who do you take an undefeated Texas or a one loss SEC, ACC, pac12, or Big10 team emerging from a conference championship game? I'm inclined to think the nod will go to champion.

er ah....Texas would be a conference champion, if that is the way the nod goes.

Do you really believe an undefeated Texas being a conference champion while playing a nine game conference schedule plus Notre Dame and in some years non-conference games with Southern Cal etc. will not be ranked in the top four?

I am inclined to think the nod will go to Texas.

That's operating under the assumption that the sec only had 1 of the 4 teams as we saw before its possible for two. Otherwise I'd agree

No, I am not assuming only one SEC school. I am saying Texas as an undefeated, Big12 champ and having beaten Notre Dame will not be left out of the top four by a one loss team from the ACC, Big or PAC and most likley not a one loss SEC team..

Do you think it'll require an undefeated team from the big12 to make into the four?

Absolutely Not. Certainly not any more than it will other conferences

(07-26-2013 10:39 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(07-26-2013 10:29 PM)bullet Wrote:  No Sunday play causes a lot of restructuring of schedules and championships. Message board chatter was that Fox was very opposed to that.

Fox?

Fox only has rights to Big 12 football, and Sunday play isn't an issue there. Fox doesn't have any "national cable" rights to Big 12 hoops, ESPN does.

Exactly.....there is nothing to indicate sunday play has ever been an issue with the Big12

(07-27-2013 01:27 AM)ilovegymnast Wrote:  Im not a UC fan but to call out their attendance is crazy. If you do a 250 mile radius around Cincinnati and the same for Lubbock you will see why Tech has more fans not to mention the area to build a stadium that size. UC has to compete with 7 NFL teams and at least 19 FBS schools.

More than 50% of the fans in Jones Stadium travel to Lubbock from DFW, Houston, Austin, San Antonio, and all points between. Tech has a large, loyal, and passionate fan base willing to make the extra effort to attend games in large numbers. Game weekends in Lubbock are all about CFB.

As for the stadium, you're right that Tech doesn't lack for space. I believe Tech has the 2nd largest contiguous campus in the nation behind Air Force. I like Cincy's planned additions to Nippert stadium.

(07-27-2013 01:27 AM)ilovegymnast Wrote:  Im not a UC fan but to call out their attendance is crazy. If you do a 250 mile radius around Cincinnati and the same for Lubbock you will see why Tech has more fans not to mention the area to build a stadium that size. UC has to compete with 7 NFL teams and at least 19 FBS schools.

That's exactly what makes Cincinnati a bad choice. Teams in pro sports towns have a hard time.

(07-27-2013 09:30 AM)SMUmustangs Wrote:  

(07-26-2013 10:39 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(07-26-2013 10:29 PM)bullet Wrote:  No Sunday play causes a lot of restructuring of schedules and championships. Message board chatter was that Fox was very opposed to that.

Fox?

Fox only has rights to Big 12 football, and Sunday play isn't an issue there. Fox doesn't have any "national cable" rights to Big 12 hoops, ESPN does.

Exactly.....there is nothing to indicate sunday play has ever been an issue with the Big12

I don't think they would have started to talk to BYU if they didn't think they could work around it. But it does impact a lot of the spring sports. The fact that TCU and WVU are in and UL was considered but BYU is not says something vetoed BYU. Pretty clearly TV had some issues.

(07-27-2013 12:17 AM)Theodoresdaddy Wrote:  

(07-25-2013 08:56 PM)CincyBro Wrote:  

(07-25-2013 08:33 PM)jml2010 Wrote:  West Virginia exeperienced some growing pains in their 1st year in the Big 12 but I see no reason to add a school or schools that have trouble averaging 30K per game for a season.

If the Big 12 is FORCED to expand, I would rather look at the ECU and USF. As others mentioned in the other thread, UCF and USF wouldn't be bad additions.

I see no reason to join a league that plays games in nowhereland,aka Lubbock. What's with the HARDON for UC, every other post you make is exactly the same, still trying to figure out what Tech has ever done on the national stage in any sport. If there was anything else to do in that god forsaken part of the country you people call home ,my guess is your averages would drop significantly, I think UC drew more to PBS when Oklahoma and Ohio State came to town than your stadium holds.

a Cincinnati fan trying to put down the Big 12 while still stuck in the AAC

how cute

Not the Big 12, just one trick pony Tech fan.

(07-27-2013 01:27 AM)ilovegymnast Wrote:  Im not a UC fan but to call out their attendance is crazy. If you do a 250 mile radius around Cincinnati and the same for Lubbock you will see why Tech has more fans not to mention the area to build a stadium that size. UC has to compete with 7 NFL teams and at least 19 FBS schools.

(07-27-2013 10:27 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(07-27-2013 01:27 AM)ilovegymnast Wrote:  Im not a UC fan but to call out their attendance is crazy. If you do a 250 mile radius around Cincinnati and the same for Lubbock you will see why Tech has more fans not to mention the area to build a stadium that size. UC has to compete with 7 NFL teams and at least 19 FBS schools.

That's exactly what makes Cincinnati a bad choice. Teams in pro sports towns have a hard time.

I will absolutely agree that universities in pro towns struggle for big time fan bases. Almost all big time college fan bases were created years ago before the pro game ( football and basketball ) exploded and 95% of these had nothing else around to compete with. Places like Nebraska, Texas, Ohio State, Michigan, Penn State, WVU etc. in football and North Carolina, Kansas, Kentucky etc. in BB in the forties and fifties ,when these huge fan bases were created and then handed down through generations, had no competition for fans whatsoever. Now I know that this doesn't cover every school, some have managed to do well in pro towns ( UCLA ), but it certainly covers a huge majority. If places in The Big 12 draw full houses to their stadiums on the weekend , then good for them. Here in Cincy in the late fall, we get 55,000 to 65,000 for Bengals game on Sunday, 25 to 35 thousand to UC game on Saturday and a lot of fans go to OSU games , 11,000 to Xavier BB game and 12,000 to UC BB game on the same weekend. Plus the minor league hockey team draws 5 or 6 thousand to their games every night. Just a few more fans attending sporting events on the same weekend in Cincy than some BIG 12 fans realize. But, unfortunately, that is what UC football is up against.
I do have season tickets and quite frankly, the only three teams I would be interested in watching out of the BIG 12 are Texas, OU and WVU and Kansas in BB. We already play everybody else in that league, the names are just different.

(07-27-2013 10:27 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(07-27-2013 01:27 AM)ilovegymnast Wrote:  Im not a UC fan but to call out their attendance is crazy. If you do a 250 mile radius around Cincinnati and the same for Lubbock you will see why Tech has more fans not to mention the area to build a stadium that size. UC has to compete with 7 NFL teams and at least 19 FBS schools.

That's exactly what makes Cincinnati a bad choice. Teams in pro sports towns have a hard time.

Commuter school fans always make an excuse as to why their attendance is horrible. If you care about your University, you make attending athletic games a family event. 6 or 7 Saturdays in the fall isn't much to ask when you have 358 other days to go to the mall, the amusement park, pro events, etc.

It's a weak argument and 1 of the reasons why these schools have been left behind.