I think the acc is making the same mistake the big 12 made in not picking up Lville...that would be let valuable property get snatched. For football go with:

Pod A: UNC, Duke, UVA, Va tech

Pod B: NC state, Wake, Cincy, Lville

Pod C: Clem, Ga Tech, FSU, Miami

Pod D: BC, Uconn, Cuse, Pitt

I would rotate the pod's every year, i.e. POD A gets teamed with pods B-D once every 3 years with two 8 team divisions every year. Play a 7-1-1 format. THe only reason for the acc not to expand is to dream about ND football or Texas joining, keep dreaming and u lose out on some good additions starring you in the face. After getting uconn and cincy, the next move is bring in gtown to pair with ND or maybe just wait out ND football, than pair them with football school x...probably wvu or temple but maybe texas if you want to dream. I would just go for the realistic double and add uconn, cincy + gtown for a 16/18 setup. For hoops, i go with two 9 team divisions with little overlap, 16-2 format. Of course, the key is to get espn involved, jump to 16 football/18 hoops for more content and markets = getting espn to start acc network.

(08-08-2013 03:44 PM)Lou_C Wrote:  Should the ACC consider a preemptive UConn/Cincinnati add? IF ESPN agreed to keep the $20M/team whole?

Naturally, being an FSU guy, you can assume that I'm against anything that weakens football...HOWEVER, going to 4 pod scheduling might actually IMPROVE the ACC schedule, even with two weaker teams. You could get through the non-divisional schedule much more quickly, and solve this issue of FSU/UNC, Miami/Clemson, Syracuse/VT playing every 14 years or whatever.

I guess it comes down to this, is there any real money to be made or at stake by "beating" the Big 10 in the Northeast? Or is Northeast college football just fools gold?

I tend to think it is not really worth it...but with the committment the ACC has there with BC, Pitt, SU, you probably don't want to cede the area to the B1G if you can win it. The investment has been made.

And the Big 10 certainly would seem to think it's worth it.

I mean, my gut feeling is no, and it is a total non-starter if ESPN isn't absolutely on board with maintaining the status quo payment. But should it be under consideration?

NO!
But we should be very happy for our UConn friends that they could make it into a major conference.
The ACC does not need UConn to be successful.

Once, either ND joins or the Big 12 falls apart we will have better options than UConn, financially.

Well, this is attractive to for basketball:

Duke
North Carolina
Syracuse
Louisville
UConn

(08-09-2013 12:56 PM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  Well, this is attractive to for basketball:

Duke
North Carolina
Syracuse
Louisville
UConn

But it sucks for football, and since football is 80% of our revenue that should trump basketball for any conference other than the ACC. However, as we have seen in the past the ACC (as a conference and individual teams) is not only capable of, is quite comfortable throwing football under the bus to help hoops.

(08-09-2013 12:56 PM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  Well, this is attractive to for basketball:

Duke
North Carolina
Syracuse
Louisville
UConn

Wilkie,
You could subsitiute Wake Forest or NC State for UConn in that list and it would play better with 75%+ of the fans in the current/future (to include Louisville) ACC.

(08-09-2013 02:14 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(08-09-2013 12:56 PM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  Well, this is attractive to for basketball:

Duke
North Carolina
Syracuse
Louisville
UConn

Wilkie,
You could subsitiute Wake Forest or NC State for UConn in that list and it would play better with 75%+ of the fans in the current/future (to include Louisville) ACC.

I understand Duke but why would UNC hate UConn basketball unless I'm forgetting something? I don't think most Louisville, Pitt, or Syracuse fans hate UConn that much that they wouldn't want to play them again, it's still a top ten program in the country.

I know this: UConn joining the B1G would be very bad for Syracuse. I'd rather have them in the ACC than the B1G.

(08-09-2013 02:36 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  I know this: UConn joining the B1G would be very bad for Syracuse. I'd rather have them in the ACC than the B1G.

UConn joining either conference would have the same effect for Syracuse (and BC FWIW). You add one more big time program to compete for already paper thin recruiting and casual fan resources.

(08-09-2013 02:23 PM)MKPitt Wrote:  

(08-09-2013 02:14 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(08-09-2013 12:56 PM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  Well, this is attractive to for basketball:

Duke
North Carolina
Syracuse
Louisville
UConn

Wilkie,
You could subsitiute Wake Forest or NC State for UConn in that list and it would play better with 75%+ of the fans in the current/future (to include Louisville) ACC.

I understand Duke but why would UNC hate UConn basketball unless I'm forgetting something? I don't think most Louisville, Pitt, or Syracuse fans hate UConn that much that they wouldn't want to play them again, it's still a top ten program in the country.

There is no hate for UConn, it's just a meh program.
UConn basketball is on the wane, while Pitt is a rising star, and UConn's football program does not have enough upside potential to ever help the ACC in a major way.

(08-08-2013 09:31 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(08-08-2013 08:09 PM)Wolfman Wrote:  If you do go to pods you have to have an even number in each pod.

why?

Scheduling. If you have 5 in your pod you have 4 conference games every year. If you play a 5 team pod you have 9 games. A 4 team pod is 8 games. If you are going to mix and match the pods why have pods at all?

I also think you would have schools complaining that other schools had it easier because they only had 3 pod games.

(08-09-2013 08:32 AM)Lou_C Wrote:  

(08-08-2013 09:31 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(08-08-2013 08:09 PM)Wolfman Wrote:  If you do go to pods you have to have an even number in each pod.

why?

In my fantasy land, the ACC 20 ends up looking like this:

Notre Dame
BC
Pitt
Syracuse
Louisville

UVA
VT
UNC
NC St
Duke

Wake Forest
FSU
GT
Clemson
Miami

Texas
Oklahoma
Oklahoma State
Texas Tech
Kansas

Or, if Kansas is a no go, then Louisville to that pod, and WVU in the northeast pod.

8-game schedule, you play your four in pod, and have four games to rotate through the rest. You cycle through out-of-pod teams in less than four years, or about seven years if you keep the home/home. So in a 20 team conference, you would see out of division teams twice as much as you do in this cluster-f of a 14-team conference.

Not saying that's going to happen or is likely, but from a long term view, that's the lineup the ACC should be positioning itself for.

I don't think the Big 12 is going to break up, but if Texas starts getting itchy, the ACC+Notre Dame+ESPN should be ready to at least make an effort.

And I know Notre Dame wants to hold out for independence as long as it can, and I get it, but Texas/OU going to the B1G let's say is a DRAMATIC shift in the landscape, and who knows what happens from there. The Irish would at least have to think about helping make this deal to be able to totally control their destiny forevever, instead of someday being forced into the B1G or a decimated or second rate ACC.

We're talking about three freaking games at that point for Notre Dame, versus tremendous uncertainty in the future.

They have to at least consider it.

Well, I am just a 50 year ND fan. But here is my opinion on that:

People really just don't get it, despite all that ND football has done since 1991 (sign NBC deal, join the Big East except for football, join the ACC except for football, etc..) to remain outside of any conference.

It is not about the most money, or TV contracts, or just "three freaking games" or the makeup of any conference its other sports are in, or "uncertainty".

It is about the identity and branding of the school, not just the athletic program or the football team. That is the driving motivation for ND regarding its football program and conference realignment.

ND does not want to have its football team, the main advertising/marketing/branding arm of the university, as a member of a football conference, ever. Period.

It wants that advertising arm, that marketing entity, to remain independent so that it can proclaim itself as a national university.

It wants to be able to have the flexibility to play all over the country. It wants to have a unique identity, it wants to be able to say it is "different".

It wants to say that for its entire 125+ years of existence, that it has been an national independent program (standing alone, never in a collective, regional grouping).

Three or four OOC games, while being tied to a regional conference (even one from Boston to Miami) doesn't do that, in ND's opinion.

It is only if/when ND cannot recruit blue chip football players because it is shut out of any chance (even a small chance) of competing for a national title, that it will consider placing its football program in any conference.

Absent a "conference champions only" playoff setup, ND football will try very hard to and will likely remain outside of any conference affiliation.

ND will not likely ever join the Big Ten, no matter what. It would prefer a "decimated and second rate ACC" in your Armageddon scenario.

In that event, its football team would still be independent and that decimated ACC would still be "good enough" for basketball, baseball and Olympic sports.

Big Ten people thought (were very confident, even) that ND would jump to their conference in 2010 when it was shown that ND could make much more TV money there with the BTN. They thought that ND was about "the most money".

To their great surprise, ND had no interest in making the most TV money. It cut a deal with the ACC for less money to stay out of the clutches of the Big Ten and to avoid joining any conference for football.

(08-08-2013 03:44 PM)Lou_C Wrote:  Should the ACC consider a preemptive UConn/Cincinnati add? IF ESPN agreed to keep the $20M/team whole?

No, for two reasons.

#1. If the goal is to capture the Northeast or wrest control away from the Big 10, then adding UC and UConn is pointless. Neither have enough of a presence in the Northeast to make the addition justified (see below for explanation). Getting Penn St and Notre Dame in the conference full time would be a much better strategy (though it is almost certainly impossible).

#2. The only real reason to expand is to make more money. If you aren't doing that, then there really isn't a reason to expand IMO.

(08-08-2013 03:44 PM)Lou_C Wrote:  Naturally, being an FSU guy, you can assume that I'm against anything that weakens football...HOWEVER, going to 4 pod scheduling might actually IMPROVE the ACC schedule, even with two weaker teams. You could get through the non-divisional schedule much more quickly, and solve this issue of FSU/UNC, Miami/Clemson, Syracuse/VT playing every 14 years or whatever.

True, but the ACC could solve it right now without expanding to do so.

Pod A
FSU
Miami
GTech
Clemson

Pod B
UNC
N.C. State
Duke
Virginia

Pod C
Louisville
Virginia Tech
Wake Forest

Pod D
Syracuse
Pittsburgh
Boston College

Year 1: Pods A and C are paired in one division. Pods B and D are paired in one division.

Year 2: Pods A and D are paired in one division. Pods B and C are paired in one division.

Year 3: Pods A and C are paired in one division. Pods B and D are paired in one division.

Year 4: Pods A and D are paired in one division. Pods B and C are paired in one division.

Teams in Pod A/B would play the following schedule every year:
- 3 opponents within their own pod
- 3 opponents from the three-team pod they are paired with (C or D)
-2 opponents from the other four team pod on a rotating basis

Teams in Pod C/D would play the following schedule every year:
- 2 opponents with their own pod
- 4 opponents from the four team pod they are paired with (A or B)
- 2 opponents from the other three team pod on a rotating basis

With that schedule you play everyone home-and-away at least once in a four year cycle.

(08-08-2013 03:44 PM)Lou_C Wrote:  I guess it comes down to this, is there any real money to be made or at stake by "beating" the Big 10 in the Northeast? Or is Northeast college football just fools gold?

I tend to think it is not really worth it...but with the committment the ACC has there with BC, Pitt, SU, you probably don't want to cede the area to the B1G if you can win it. The investment has been made.

Maybe, but I think the ACC and Big 10 will both struggle with football in that part of the country. In my opinion, I think a conference would need to have Penn St, Notre Dame, and several other regional players (Rutgers, Syracuse, Pitt, Boston College) to really capture the region. Without Penn St, the ACC is never going to really boot the Big 10 out. The same applies to the Big10 with Notre Dame.

As they are currently configured, each conference has a few of the pieces, but neither one has enough to really claim the Northeast. Adding UConn and UC wouldn't change this fact for the ACC or Big Ten.

(08-08-2013 03:44 PM)Lou_C Wrote:  I mean, my gut feeling is no, and it is a total non-starter if ESPN isn't absolutely on board with maintaining the status quo payment. But should it be under consideration?

Si vis pacem, para bellum.

I think the ACC should definitely keep an eye on UConn and UC, but I don't see a reason to add either right now. The Big 10 will never add UC (OSU already gets press in Cincinnati and UC doesn't fit the land-grant model) so the only conference option I think they have at the moment is the Big 12. UConn might be a target in 10-15 years if they invest in football, but I think their lack of football tradition/history will keep them out for the time being.

(08-09-2013 08:32 AM)Lou_C Wrote:  In my fantasy land, the ACC 20 ends up looking like this:

Northeast Pod
UConn
BC
PSU
Syracuse
Rutgers

Mid Atlantic Pod
Penn State
Pittsburgh
West Virginia
Maryland
Louisville

South Atlantic Pod
UVA
VT
UNC
NC St
Duke

Southeastern Pod
FSU
Miami
FSU
GT
Clemson
Wake Forest

If it is a fantasy, might as well dream big and control the entire east coast

(08-11-2013 10:26 AM)UofLgrad07 Wrote:  

(08-09-2013 08:32 AM)Lou_C Wrote:  In my fantasy land, the ACC 20 ends up looking like this:

Northeast Pod
UConn
BC
PSU
Syracuse
Rutgers

Mid Atlantic Pod
Penn State
Pittsburgh
West Virginia
Maryland
Louisville

South Atlantic Pod
UVA
VT
UNC
NC St
Duke

Southeastern Pod
FSU
Miami
FSU
GT
Clemson
Wake Forest

If it is a fantasy, might as well dream big and control the entire east coast

Well, since it's fantasy, might as well go all the way and think even bigger.

Northeast Pod
Notre Dame
PSU
Pitt
Syracuse
BC

Mid Atlantic Pod
West Virginia
Maryland
VT
Louisville
Cincy

South Atlantic Pod
UVA
UNC
NC St
Duke
Clemson

Southeastern Pod
FSU
Miami
Fla
GT
Georgia

Cheers,
Neil

(08-11-2013 11:16 AM)omniorange Wrote:  South Atlantic Pod
UVA
UNC
NC St
Duke
Clemson

I would rather play in the AAC than have to face an annual line-up like that.

(08-11-2013 03:05 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(08-11-2013 11:16 AM)omniorange Wrote:  South Atlantic Pod
UVA
UNC
NC St
Duke
Clemson

I would rather play in the AAC than have to face an annual line-up like that.

Makes my fantasy complete then.

Cheers,
Neil

(08-11-2013 04:06 PM)omniorange Wrote:  

(08-11-2013 03:05 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(08-11-2013 11:16 AM)omniorange Wrote:  South Atlantic Pod
UVA
UNC
NC St
Duke
Clemson

I would rather play in the AAC than have to face an annual line-up like that.

Makes my fantasy complete then.

Cheers,
Neil

If we lost every game to each of them in that group it would only be after the first game of the 23rd season that the group as a whole would be just .500 against us. For UNC it would take 16 years, Duke 17, NC State 24, and UVA 31. We have pretty much already done what you scheduled...it was called the ACC 1953-1991 and we owned it. It wasn't fun back then, and it wouldn't be fun now.

Besides, we have zero rivals in our division.

(08-11-2013 10:26 AM)UofLgrad07 Wrote:  

(08-09-2013 08:32 AM)Lou_C Wrote:  In my fantasy land, the ACC 20 ends up looking like this:

Northeast Pod
UConn
BC
PSU
Syracuse
Rutgers

Mid Atlantic Pod
Penn State
Pittsburgh
West Virginia
Maryland
Louisville

South Atlantic Pod
UVA
VT
UNC
NC St
Duke

Southeastern Pod
FSU
Miami
FSU
GT
Clemson
Wake Forest

If it is a fantasy, might as well dream big and control the entire east coast

FSU has Two schools now? one is enough

(08-11-2013 10:11 PM)CardFan1 Wrote:  

(08-11-2013 10:26 AM)UofLgrad07 Wrote:  

(08-09-2013 08:32 AM)Lou_C Wrote:  In my fantasy land, the ACC 20 ends up looking like this:

Northeast Pod
UConn
BC
PSU
Syracuse
Rutgers

Mid Atlantic Pod
Penn State
Pittsburgh
West Virginia
Maryland
Louisville

South Atlantic Pod
UVA
VT
UNC
NC St
Duke

Southeastern Pod
FSU
Miami
FSU
GT
Clemson
Wake Forest

If it is a fantasy, might as well dream big and control the entire east coast

FSU has Two schools now? one is enough

Penn State is also there twice - sure they have about 50000 branch campuses but still.....