UC alum, but my best friend went to X. I have a feeling that X will sellout their conference schedule this year, even though they probably won't be very good. My friend is already planning a trip to DC for the GT game.

Sadly, UC isn't selling out enough games considering how good the team has been the last few years. UC is still recovering from the Zimpher cataclysm in terms of fans coming out. A new area, or an admission to the big12/acc in the next few years (post nippert) will fix that.

(08-15-2013 11:38 AM)Cat-Man Wrote:  

(08-15-2013 11:12 AM)Bearcat T Wrote:  Both have great programs. XU is supported by a very loyal, but much smaller segment of Cincy. They do a great job of supporting their team. Their fans are basically XU alums and they love the Muskies as it is their only sport etc. UC is supported by their vast alums, enormous student body and the city of Cincinnati in general. UC also has Football and is very successful, so XU is not even part of the late Summer and Fall in the city. The city supports Basketball no less than in Lexington and Louisville it is just we happen to have two teams! We put on avg about 18 to 21k in seats
when both teams are playing at the same time. Many XU fans even support UC Football as much as we hate each other in BBALL... LOL

It is actually quite funny. The Cincy Enquirer XU beat reporter tries to throw in the obligatory XU article in the Summer and Fall to try and keep them relevent.

The overall fan interest of the city is definately pro-UC. As it should be, because they are the larger University. But I will give credit where credit is due. The XU fan base is more loyal and will show up regardless of the opponent. Plus, you can't argue with head to head success. They definately have UC's number, and that includes during the Huggins years.

Someone mentioned the 180 degree on the conference. Carefull what you wish for. It's one thing to basically know you have a good chance of winning your rinky dink conference and ending up with a decent NCAA tourney seed because of it every year. It's quite another to have some real dog fights night in and night out in your own conference. UC has seen both sides of that fence.

Huggs was 8-8 vs X at UC.
Mick is 3-5 (not bad considering what he inherited)

Good discussion too bad no Xavier fans are around

Xavier has a better arena - nicer, bigger, brighter FAR MORE good seats. this is really the beginning and ending statement regarding Xavier being better in any way than UC.

Xavier's best 20 years have been their most recent 20 and even in that stretch there are still VERY few years where they weren't essentially a bubble team.

You can use whatever objective/subjective measures you want. RPI, Sagarin, wins against quality opponnents. UC beats Xavier in every measure in all but a very few years.

Take a look at how many total wins X has against top 25 teams versus UC every year. It is a ridiculously lopsided margin in favor of UC. The irony is that most of the top 25 wins they can claim are against UC and UC gets the benefit of almost none when they beat X. Because Xavier is, for good reason, almost (historically speaking) never ranked.

Part of this is because Xavier historically has had usually ZERO top 25 teams in their conferences and have been able to schedule few to none out of conference. Hence the reason they are perennial good win/loss percentage bubble team.

Yet they are good at getting up for the one or two BIG games they have a year and the UC game is definitely their SUPERBOWL. Add to that the local rivalry and you have a tough situation for Goliath who has to play lots of other Goliaths facing David who is hopped up like the cocoa puffs bird having had no opponnent of mention to really get amped up about until that game.

This is not something Xavier fans like to hear naturally, even though they know it is true. There are far more years previously when Xavier completely sucked. Before the advent of multiple sports only channels, there was a long stretch of time where the crosstown shootout was the ONLY game that got Xavier national media attention. Not so for UC, obviously, who had many games on national TV as well as a visible known tradition of National Championships and NCAA victories.

UC's agreement to play and continue this series with Xavier essentially put Xavier "on the map". Xavier has done well with the opportunity, but they are still second fiddle and not comparable in the bigger picture.

(08-15-2013 12:17 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  Good discussion too bad no Xavier fans are around

Check the leather shops and bath houses.

(08-15-2013 12:17 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  Good discussion too bad no Xavier fans are around

Sort of answers the original question as to who is the Alpha Dog in Greater Cincinnati, no? If XU ruled the roost down here there would be posters all over this board. UC has one of the larger followings on CSNBBS irrespective of conference.

Xavier has a good basketball program but they are a small private school that is supported by alums, local Catholics, friends, and family. Loyal fans but their seats also cost a lot less than they do at UC. Most loyal Bearcat fans are on the hook for football tickets, basketball tickets, and a UCats donation. After students and UCat members take prime seatings our casual don't have a whole lot to pick from in terms of quality basketball seats.

It doesn't help that the Bengals and Reds are both on the upswing for ticket sales either. ( I want both pro teams to win big!)

Overall history Cincinnati laps Xavier. Over the last twenty plus years the rivalry is rather even. Xavier still doesn't have a Final Four, National Championship, a 1 or 2 seed, or a final ranking in the top 5. Most of their best moments have come as the underdog pulling the big upset.

Cincy definitely has more history on their side, but as far as this century goes, you can make a strong case for Xavier. Since 2000 Xavier has 11 NCAA appearances which include 2 Elite Eights and 3 Sweet Sixteens. Cincy has 9 NCAA appearances and just 2 Sweet Sixteens. Head to head Xavier leads 8-5. And Xavier also beats them consistently attendance wise, despite the fact Cincy has had a home schedule which includes perennial powers like Louisville, UCONN, Syracuse, Marquette, Georgetown, etc... while Xaviers best game is normally Temple and not much else. Cincy may have more soft support in town but the hard core fans seem to belong to X

(08-15-2013 10:11 AM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(08-15-2013 10:05 AM)john01992 Wrote:  i love this rivalry.

cincy fans used to torment xavier fans because they were big east & X was not.

one 180 degree turn later.......

New Big East minus Louisville, Pitt, WVU, Cincy, Cuse, UConn etc., isn't the same. Still a good conference though. I am a Cincy fan and we don't torment any other fan base, most certainly we did not torment or brag entering the Big East because our former pres imposed a death penalty and the team was not good for years. If anything their fans tried to torment us.

yeah but its one thing cincy fans could always pull on X fans, and gtown quette creighton & butler is sure one heck of a conference

(08-15-2013 11:32 AM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(08-15-2013 10:51 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(08-15-2013 10:08 AM)Bearcat2012 Wrote:  

(08-15-2013 10:02 AM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(08-15-2013 09:50 AM)adcorbett Wrote:  Xavier has averaged more fans for the last seven or eight years. Possibly longer, but I have only ever looked back at attendance since the new, err old, Big East was formed in 2005. Food for thought

If we had their arena it would help. Attendance is pretty close, I think we averaged 8,500 and X 10,000? We probably average 11,000-12,000 for conference games.

for the 12-13 season...

43. Xavier 9,781
48. UC 9,253

But X didn't have marquee programs coming in during the conference season like Cincy does over the past 10 years.

So what?

Marquee programs draw in casual fans to increase attendance. For Cincy: Louisville and Syracuse have brought in fans to 5/3 to help boost attendance. I would assume that Notre Dame would also bring in some fans.

(08-15-2013 12:28 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(08-15-2013 12:17 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  Good discussion too bad no Xavier fans are around

Sort of answers the original question as to who is the Alpha Dog in Greater Cincinnati, no? If XU ruled the roost down here there would be posters all over this board. UC has one of the larger followings on CSNBBS irrespective of conference.

I knew the answer already...just playing devil's advocate in this thread.

I think attendance is the only thing X can lean on and a better NCAA resume the last 10 years.

Cincinnati is a national program on the football and basketball stage.

Xavier is going from Atlantic 10, which was the premier non-football conference, to the NEW Big East, which is the new premier non-football conference. The name still exists, but gone is the heart of what has been looked at as the OLD Big East for the last decade (Syracuse, Louisville, Notre Dame, and UConn) .

As a lifelong Columbus resident who lived close to but still outside the rivalry, I'm trying to think how most people who follow basketball would think of it. All the people I've known who have really cared about it are alums or Cincinnati transplants so that's colored my picture a little. I always kind of thought of them as equals in basketball, but I think that's mostly because a) the only person I knew who really cared about either for a long time was a Xavier alumni, b) I'm from a big Catholic family so give the Catholic schools a little more weight, c) Matta was at Xavier before coming here. If a random Xavier and Cincinnati game were on at the same time, I'm guessing more would stop on Cincinnati if for no other reason than more would recognize Cincinnati as an Ohio team. Beyond that, having the same city name as the Reds and Bengals helps.

Long term, I think Cincinnati's advantages are greater. I said on a few occasions in the past, I think the 16/8 team Big East was great for Bearcat football and terrible for basketball. UC was unlikely going to stand as one of the top name brand teams in the basketball Big East, but the football one provided AQ status and then just enough name brands to get attention but with just the right amount of competition so they could succeed.

(08-15-2013 03:16 PM)ohio1317 Wrote:  As a lifelong Columbus resident who lived close to but still outside the rivalry, I'm trying to think how most people who follow basketball would think of it. All the people I've known who have really cared about it are alums or Cincinnati transplants so that's colored my picture a little. I always kind of thought of them as equals in basketball, but I think that's mostly because a) the only person I knew who really cared about either for a long time was a Xavier alumni, b) I'm from a big Catholic family so give the Catholic schools a little more weight, c) Matta was at Xavier before coming here. If a random Xavier and Cincinnati game were on at the same time, I'm guessing more would stop on Cincinnati if for no other reason than more would recognize Cincinnati as an Ohio team. Beyond that, having the same city name as the Reds and Bengals helps.

Long term, I think Cincinnati's advantages are greater. I said on a few occasions in the past, I think the 16/8 team Big East was great for Bearcat football and terrible for basketball. UC was unlikely going to stand as one of the top name brand teams in the basketball Big East, but the football one provided AQ status and then just enough name brands to get attention but with just the right amount of competition so they could succeed.

In Ohio there is going to be more eyeballs on Cincinnati than X, CUSA, Big East, AAC doesn't matter. If anyone is interested in the top TV markets for College BBall,


http://espnmediazone.com/us/press-releas...r-on-espn/
Top 25 Markets for 2012-13 Top 25 Markets for 2011-12
No. 1 Louisville: 4.5 rating No. 1 Louisville: 4.5 rating
No. 2 Greensboro: 3.1 rating No. 2 Greensboro: 3.5 rating
No. 3 Raleigh-Durham: 3.0 rating No. 3 Kansas City: 2.8 rating
No. 4 Indianapolis: 2.9 rating No. 4 Columbus: 2.7 rating
No. 5 Kansas City: 2.7 rating Raleigh-Durham 2.7 rating
No. 6 Cincinnati: 2.1 rating No. 6 Charlotte: 2.3 rating
Columbus: 2.1 rating No. 7 Cincinnati: 2.1 rating
No. 8 Dayton: 2.0 rating No. 8 Dayton: 2.0 rating
No. 9 Charlotte: 1.8 rating No. 9 Indianapolis: 1.8 rating
No. 10 Knoxville: 1.7 rating Knoxville: 1.8 rating
Nashville: 1.7 rating No. 11 Memphis: 1.6 rating
No. 12 Detroit: 1.6 rating Nashville: 1.6 rating
No. 13 Birmingham: 1.5 rating No. 13 Greenville: 1.5 rating
No. 14 Memphis: 1.3 rating No. 14 Cleveland: 1.4 rating
Hartford & New Haven: 1.3 rating Birmingham: 1.4 rating
Greenville: 1.3 rating Las Vegas: 1.4 rating
Cleveland: 1.3 rating No. 17 Norfolk: 1.2 rating
Norfolk: 1.3 rating Hartford and New Haven: 1.2 rating
St. Louis: 1.3 rating St. Louis: 1.2 rating
No. 20 Richmond: 1.2 rating No. 20 Fort Myers: 1.1 rating
Las Vegas: 1.2 rating Atlanta: 1.1 rating
No. 22 Fort Myers: 1.1 rating Richmond: 1.1 rating
Milwaukee: 1.1 rating No. 23 Pittsburgh: 1.0 rating
No. 24 Baltimore: 1.0 rating Detroit: 1.0 rating
Tulsa: 1.0 rating Oklahoma City: 1.0 rating
Atlanta: 1.0 rating Jacksonville: 1.0 rating
Oklahoma City: 1.0 rating Tulsa: 1.0 rating

(08-15-2013 02:19 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(08-15-2013 12:28 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(08-15-2013 12:17 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  Good discussion too bad no Xavier fans are around

Sort of answers the original question as to who is the Alpha Dog in Greater Cincinnati, no? If XU ruled the roost down here there would be posters all over this board. UC has one of the larger followings on CSNBBS irrespective of conference.

I knew the answer already...just playing devil's advocate in this thread.

I think attendance is the only thing X can lean on and a better NCAA resume the last 10 years.

- XU's higher attendance (over the last 10 years, in a lower conference) and a better NCAA resume (over the last 10 years, out of a lower conference) are two pretty important things...! Plus XU has a new arena... plus XU is upgrading their conference affiliation... plus, XU has at least been equal (or better) to Cincinnati in their recruiting.
- XU fans aren't around much here because this website is by far and away a college football board. As basketball fans, they would have to be dumb-masochists, like me I guess, to hang out here.
- I'll miss having Cincinnati in our conference, but XU I think will be a great replacement. Both schools usually play with some brass stones.

(08-15-2013 05:28 PM)billyjack Wrote:  

(08-15-2013 02:19 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(08-15-2013 12:28 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(08-15-2013 12:17 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  Good discussion too bad no Xavier fans are around

Sort of answers the original question as to who is the Alpha Dog in Greater Cincinnati, no? If XU ruled the roost down here there would be posters all over this board. UC has one of the larger followings on CSNBBS irrespective of conference.

I knew the answer already...just playing devil's advocate in this thread.

I think attendance is the only thing X can lean on and a better NCAA resume the last 10 years.

- XU's higher attendance (over the last 10 years, in a lower conference) and a better NCAA resume (over the last 10 years, out of a lower conference) are two pretty important things...! Plus XU has a new arena... plus XU is upgrading their conference affiliation... plus, XU has at least been equal (or better) to Cincinnati in their recruiting.
- XU fans aren't around much here because this website is by far and away a college football board. As basketball fans, they would have to be dumb-masochists, like me I guess, to hang out here.
- I'll miss having Cincinnati in our conference, but XU I think will be a great replacement. Both schools usually play with some brass stones.

So X has a better program than Providence?

(08-15-2013 05:38 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(08-15-2013 05:28 PM)billyjack Wrote:  

(08-15-2013 02:19 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(08-15-2013 12:28 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(08-15-2013 12:17 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  Good discussion too bad no Xavier fans are around

Sort of answers the original question as to who is the Alpha Dog in Greater Cincinnati, no? If XU ruled the roost down here there would be posters all over this board. UC has one of the larger followings on CSNBBS irrespective of conference.

I knew the answer already...just playing devil's advocate in this thread.

I think attendance is the only thing X can lean on and a better NCAA resume the last 10 years.

- XU's higher attendance (over the last 10 years, in a lower conference) and a better NCAA resume (over the last 10 years, out of a lower conference) are two pretty important things...! Plus XU has a new arena... plus XU is upgrading their conference affiliation... plus, XU has at least been equal (or better) to Cincinnati in their recruiting.
- XU fans aren't around much here because this website is by far and away a college football board. As basketball fans, they would have to be dumb-masochists, like me I guess, to hang out here.
- I'll miss having Cincinnati in our conference, but XU I think will be a great replacement. Both schools usually play with some brass stones.

So X has a better program than Providence?

Xavier has had way more success over the last 10 years than PC. I think XU and PC are both in great spots going forward-- the near future looks bright for both. Also, PC is the most popular team in its market, which may have been the original question in this thread.

(08-15-2013 05:28 PM)billyjack Wrote:  

(08-15-2013 02:19 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(08-15-2013 12:28 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(08-15-2013 12:17 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  Good discussion too bad no Xavier fans are around

Sort of answers the original question as to who is the Alpha Dog in Greater Cincinnati, no? If XU ruled the roost down here there would be posters all over this board. UC has one of the larger followings on CSNBBS irrespective of conference.

I knew the answer already...just playing devil's advocate in this thread.

I think attendance is the only thing X can lean on and a better NCAA resume the last 10 years.

- XU's higher attendance (over the last 10 years, in a lower conference) and a better NCAA resume (over the last 10 years, out of a lower conference) are two pretty important things...! Plus XU has a new arena... plus XU is upgrading their conference affiliation... plus, XU has at least been equal (or better) to Cincinnati in their recruiting.
- XU fans aren't around much here because this website is by far and away a college football board. As basketball fans, they would have to be dumb-masochists, like me I guess, to hang out here.
- I'll miss having Cincinnati in our conference, but XU I think will be a great replacement. Both schools usually play with some brass stones.

Little hard to compare the last 10 years when UC was essentially rebuilding the program from the ground up. The Zimpher/Huggs fiasco threw a wrench in ticket sales, as well as, recruiting. Cronin had to rebuild the program in the hardest bball conf in America.

Doesn't matter if this were a fball or bball board. Outside of a couple x message boards, you typically do not see or hear from x fans. One of the major complaints from local Cincy sports talk shows.

If you are traveling around the country, as I do, no one has ever approached me about x. Many do not know they are in the Cincy area. UC moves the meter when they are good and not so great. They have a national brand. X is a nice little program. Let's see how the next 10 years pans out.

(08-15-2013 12:19 PM)Eastside_J Wrote:  Xavier has a better arena - nicer, bigger, brighter FAR MORE good seats. this is really the beginning and ending statement regarding Xavier being better in any way than UC.

Xavier's best 20 years have been their most recent 20 and even in that stretch there are still VERY few years where they weren't essentially a bubble team.

You can use whatever objective/subjective measures you want. RPI, Sagarin, wins against quality opponnents. UC beats Xavier in every measure in all but a very few years.

Take a look at how many total wins X has against top 25 teams versus UC every year. It is a ridiculously lopsided margin in favor of UC. The irony is that most of the top 25 wins they can claim are against UC and UC gets the benefit of almost none when they beat X. Because Xavier is, for good reason, almost (historically speaking) never ranked.

Part of this is because Xavier historically has had usually ZERO top 25 teams in their conferences and have been able to schedule few to none out of conference. Hence the reason they are perennial good win/loss percentage bubble team.

Yet they are good at getting up for the one or two BIG games they have a year and the UC game is definitely their SUPERBOWL. Add to that the local rivalry and you have a tough situation for Goliath who has to play lots of other Goliaths facing David who is hopped up like the cocoa puffs bird having had no opponnent of mention to really get amped up about until that game.

This is not something Xavier fans like to hear naturally, even though they know it is true. There are far more years previously when Xavier completely sucked. Before the advent of multiple sports only channels, there was a long stretch of time where the crosstown shootout was the ONLY game that got Xavier national media attention. Not so for UC, obviously, who had many games on national TV as well as a visible known tradition of National Championships and NCAA victories.

UC's agreement to play and continue this series with Xavier essentially put Xavier "on the map". Xavier has done well with the opportunity, but they are still second fiddle and not comparable in the bigger picture.

XU's arena is not bigger than UC's. X capacity @ 10k. UC @ 13k.

(08-15-2013 03:16 PM)ohio1317 Wrote:  As a lifelong Columbus resident who lived close to but still outside the rivalry, I'm trying to think how most people who follow basketball would think of it. All the people I've known who have really cared about it are alums or Cincinnati transplants so that's colored my picture a little. I always kind of thought of them as equals in basketball, but I think that's mostly because a) the only person I knew who really cared about either for a long time was a Xavier alumni, b) I'm from a big Catholic family so give the Catholic schools a little more weight, c) Matta was at Xavier before coming here. If a random Xavier and Cincinnati game were on at the same time, I'm guessing more would stop on Cincinnati if for no other reason than more would recognize Cincinnati as an Ohio team. Beyond that, having the same city name as the Reds and Bengals helps.

Long term, I think Cincinnati's advantages are greater. I said on a few occasions in the past, I think the 16/8 team Big East was great for Bearcat football and terrible for basketball. UC was unlikely going to stand as one of the top name brand teams in the basketball Big East, but the football one provided AQ status and then just enough name brands to get attention but with just the right amount of competition so they could succeed.

Agree with you about the Big East. From a basketball standpoint moving to the American is a blessing; however, while the football league is about the same top to bottom the loss of the AQ bids hurts. The good new is the Bearcat football in an place now where they can be the top program in both sports.

If UC does move to a power five league I am concerned that the program finds the right fit. Basketball would get overshadow in the ACC but football should do fine. Big XII would have its own issues.

I am very interested to see how Xavier does in a stronger league this fall. The Big East is not the power conference it used but it is still stronger than the A-10. What happens to C7 without the football schools will be something to watch.