(08-25-2013 09:23 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(08-25-2013 09:20 PM)SergiofromFresno Wrote:  

(08-25-2013 09:18 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(08-25-2013 09:07 PM)SergiofromFresno Wrote:  

(08-25-2013 09:00 PM)john01992 Wrote:  you have got to be kidding me. the 4 cali schools dominate california. yeah bash them for being liberal but those are the schools that b10, b12, sec, & acc schools would rather play. those schools are internationally known and if you think frenso is on that level you are mistaken.

idaho is still the flagship while bsu is not. thats worth 10x than any football success because schools like playing flagships. unlike bsu they actually have and endowment

Look at the attendance of SDSU and Fresno and look at the markets they are in. Totally different and quite far away from the PAC schools. Anyways Stanford and Cal dont own Central California.

The Idaho argument is illogical- Do you think Georgia or Va Tech would have preferred playing Idaho instead of Boise because it was the flagship?

well considering that 3 p5 schools have them on the schedule i think you need to recheck that argument. a lot of power programs are willing to play them. texas a&m, nebraska, florida st. to name a few. the flagship status is appealing

They are scheduled as a sacrificial lamb not as a worthy opponent.

and so is ecu but the best they have managed is a H&H with scar

you can deny it all you want but being a flagship gives schools certain advantages

Then explain why it was only after being thrown a life ring by the Sun Belt only because the Sun Belt needed existing FBS teams that Idaho was seriously looking at having to drop down to the Big Sky in FCS because no other conference wanted them. Did all these conferences that didn't want them just overlook their flagship status? Or was it a case of the only thing of value they brought to even the bottom of the barrel Sun Belt was the fact that they were a FBS school already?


BTW in addition to the South Carolina series they have multi-year series with VT, a home and home with UNC, and a future home and home with South Carolina.
http://www.fbschedules.com/ncaa/conf-usa...irates.php

Idaho has future home and homes lined up with Ohio and UNLV
http://www.fbschedules.com/ncaa/wac/idaho-vandals.php

So much for wanting to associate with Idaho because they are a flagship

(08-25-2013 09:29 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(08-25-2013 09:08 PM)john01992 Wrote:  Utah State has more history that Fresno, Hawaii, and Boise combined?

03-lmfao

I certainly hope your parents finally got rid of that lead based paint you obviously snacked on as a kid.

they started playing FB a lot earlier than most schools

Eastern Michigan has played football longer and nobody is bringing them into this discussion.

Quote:, joined a conference much earlier than most schools

This will have nothing to do with D4 whatsoever

Quote:, plus they are a major rival of both utah & byu. its because of those rivalries that utah gets in

Yes, because we saw how hard UU and BYU worked to get USU into the WAC and MWC while they were there. USU was so well regarded that they didn't get into the WAC until half the conference fled to CUSA six years after UU and BYU left to form the MWC, or into the MWC until not only UU and BYU left, but several other schools as well.

Just like they have with realignment rivalries will cease to exist when the split occurs. It happened with the I-A/AA split. Look at the history between Rutgers and Lehigh, Seventy four games that stopped in 1977. It is unfortunate but it's the way things are.

rutgers moved up and lehigh didnt......

this is two schools that are in, but are not gonna leave a rival behind. utah st. has the politicians to pressure utah st. & byu from letting utah st fall behind.

colorado would be in a similar situation with af & csu. those schools are on the bubble but have the political power to cause a fuss. and if political forces can keep 2 pac12 schools from agreeing to this, then now the pac12 has to stop and cave in to those demands. and its gonna be politics that give those schools the jump.

thats how vtech got into the acc over SU in 2003. thats how the b12 ended up with texas tech, baylor, & aggie sticking with texas. one school can literally be forced to cave to a politicians demands and thus an entire conference gets affected.

we talked about this a while ago in another thread about how the MWC is very stable because they have so much political power among their schools, and for those reasons + the fact that the west could use a few more schools than the southeast and mid atlantic states a lot of their schools will get in.

(08-25-2013 09:40 PM)john01992 Wrote:  and just an FYI both buffalo & tulane had some good football teams back in the day but got sidetracked by their administrations

When did Buffalo have good teams?

You do understand we are talking about the Buffalo Bulls and not the Buffalo Bills right? I have to ask because logical thinking does not seem to be your strong point based on this thread.

(08-25-2013 09:42 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(08-25-2013 09:23 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(08-25-2013 09:20 PM)SergiofromFresno Wrote:  

(08-25-2013 09:18 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(08-25-2013 09:07 PM)SergiofromFresno Wrote:  Look at the attendance of SDSU and Fresno and look at the markets they are in. Totally different and quite far away from the PAC schools. Anyways Stanford and Cal dont own Central California.

The Idaho argument is illogical- Do you think Georgia or Va Tech would have preferred playing Idaho instead of Boise because it was the flagship?

well considering that 3 p5 schools have them on the schedule i think you need to recheck that argument. a lot of power programs are willing to play them. texas a&m, nebraska, florida st. to name a few. the flagship status is appealing

They are scheduled as a sacrificial lamb not as a worthy opponent.

and so is ecu but the best they have managed is a H&H with scar

you can deny it all you want but being a flagship gives schools certain advantages

Then explain why it was only after being thrown a life ring by the Sun Belt only because the Sun Belt needed existing FBS teams that Idaho was seriously looking at having to drop down to the Big Sky in FCS because no other conference wanted them. Did all these conferences that didn't want them just overlook their flagship status? Or was it a case of the only thing of value they brought to even the bottom of the barrel Sun Belt was the fact that they were a FBS school already?


BTW in addition to the South Carolina series they have multi-year series with VT, a home and home with UNC, and a future home and home with South Carolina.
http://www.fbschedules.com/ncaa/conf-usa...irates.php

Idaho has future home and homes lined up with Ohio and UNLV
http://www.fbschedules.com/ncaa/wac/idaho-vandals.php

So much for wanting to associate with Idaho because they are a flagship

i mentioned power programs because i didnt want to go over the edge. idaho also has played temple, wash st. ole miss, lsu, unc, virginia, usc, mich st. washington etc.

(08-25-2013 09:51 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(08-25-2013 09:40 PM)john01992 Wrote:  and just an FYI both buffalo & tulane had some good football teams back in the day but got sidetracked by their administrations

When did Buffalo have good teams?

You do understand we are talking about the Buffalo Bulls and not the Buffalo Bills right? I have to ask because logical thinking does not seem to be your strong point based on this thread.

back when they were a private school buffalo, colgate, & syracuse were building a pretty nice private school dominate trio in new york during the the mid 50s to mid 60s. buffalo had had a .617 winning percentage and even got a tangerine bowl bid but didnt play because they refused to leave their black players at home. they could have been a lot like syracuse but the suny system threw them off track

UConn:

1) Academics:
a) #63 per U.S. News.
b) #29 FBS school (better than over half of the P5).

2) National Championships:
a) 3 men's BB since 1999 (and 18 Big East championships),
b) 8 women's BB,
c) 3 men's soccer,
d) 2 field hockey.

3) Market:
a) #30 Hartford/New Haven (largest in the U.S. w/o a pro team),
b) a share of the NYC market.

4) Flagship state university (land, sea, and space grant) in one of the wealthiest areas of the U.S.

I could go into more, but those are the basics.

You are obviously more concerned with the 2013 season than reminiscing over the 1963 Buffalo season like John has.

Again, Kudos, and keep walking, there's nothing to see here.

(08-25-2013 07:48 PM)SergiofromFresno Wrote:  Football/Basketball Performance, Attendance, Media Market,etc..

Imho...


MWC

Boise St
Fresno St
San Diego St
Air Force
New Mexico
Colorado St
UNLV
Hawaii


AAC

UConn
Cincinnati
South Florida
Central Florida
East Carolina
Temple
Navy
Houston
Southern Methodist
Memphis


Others

BYU
Army
UTEP
USM

Tulsa needs to been in there, they win more with less than anyone.

(08-25-2013 10:31 PM)AnnapolisPirate Wrote:  You are obviously more concerned with the 2013 season than reminiscing over the 1963 Buffalo season like John has.

Again, Kudos, and keep walking, there's nothing to see here.

oh yeah i know. i was just saying that tulane & buffalo do have FB history in their past

Gotta get a plug in for my Miners!

If I were the one making the decisions I'd pick schools based on;

1. Is it a traditional "High level football program"
2. Attendance for football should be at least be close to 40k during good seasons
3. Brand
4. Potential (This is subjective and a gamble, so I don't even know if it really matters)

Under criteria 1

USM
BSU
AFA
Houston
SMU

Criteria 2

ECU
UCF
Fresno St
UTEP
Hawaii
Memphis
Uconn
Cinci
USF

criteria 3

UNLV
UNM
Army
Navy
BYU

Criteria 4

UTSA
ODU
UNCC

Obviously, there are probably more schools that meet those criteria and in some cases meet multiple criteria but these schools I know off the top of my head

Here are the schools I think should merge to create a new Best of the Rest Conference and be included in D4:

MWC schools making up a West Conference:
Boise State
SDSU
Colorado Sate
Air Force
New Mexico
Fresno State
Utah State

AAC schools making up an East Conference:
UConn
Temple
Cincinnati
UCF
USF
Houston
SMU

Combine these 14 into the National Athletic Conference (The NAC or The National)

Independents who would join Notre Dame in the D4:
BYU
Army
Navy (who would bolt from whatever was left of the AAC)

Why would Army want to be in Division 4? They have a tough enough time competing as it is.

(08-25-2013 11:26 PM)Blackhawk-eye Wrote:  Here are the schools I think should merge to create a new Best of the Rest Conference and be included in D4:

MWC schools making up a West Conference:
Boise State
SDSU
Colorado Sate
Air Force
New Mexico
Fresno State
Utah State

AAC schools making up an East Conference:
UConn
Temple
Cincinnati
UCF
USF
Houston
SMU

Combine these 14 into the National Athletic Conference (The NAC or The National)

Independents who would join Notre Dame in the D4:
BYU
Army
Navy (who would bolt from whatever was left of the AAC)

i like where you are going with this however buffalo nevada & unlv should also be included instead of sdsu/frenso and especially bsu.

bsu is never gonna happen but IF were gonna let sdsu/frenso join in then you have to include tulane, LA monroe, & tulsa. a lot of people are pushing the ECU thing personally i dont see it but if ecu gets in that only opens the door for idaho/wyoming/new mexico st.

(08-25-2013 11:30 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  Why would Army want to be in Division 4? They have a tough enough time competing as it is.

3 words.......

large national following

(08-25-2013 11:39 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(08-25-2013 11:30 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  Why would Army want to be in Division 4? They have a tough enough time competing as it is.

3 words.......

large national following

But they'd have a hard time winning any games. They don't even do well against MAC schools. They weren't competitive in CUSA. They just aren't set up for it.

(08-25-2013 11:38 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(08-25-2013 11:26 PM)Blackhawk-eye Wrote:  Here are the schools I think should merge to create a new Best of the Rest Conference and be included in D4:

MWC schools making up a West Conference:
Boise State
SDSU
Colorado Sate
Air Force
New Mexico
Fresno State
Utah State

AAC schools making up an East Conference:
UConn
Temple
Cincinnati
UCF
USF
Houston
SMU

Combine these 14 into the National Athletic Conference (The NAC or The National)

Independents who would join Notre Dame in the D4:
BYU
Army
Navy (who would bolt from whatever was left of the AAC)

i like where you are going with this however buffalo nevada & unlv should also be included instead of sdsu/frenso and especially bsu.

bsu is never gonna happen but IF were gonna let sdsu/frenso join in then you have to include tulane, LA monroe, & tulsa. a lot of people are pushing the ECU thing personally i dont see it but if ecu gets in that only opens the door for idaho/wyoming/new mexico st.

oh my gawd, someone has fallen off their rocker and/or is just stirring the pot. Buffalo doesn't even average 15k for football, nevada has problems averaging 20k when they're ranked in the top 20, same for tulsa... I can't believe I read all the way down to Tulsa, considering you listed La Monroe??????? really? USU attendance last year was barely 20k

I can't even believe I replied to this

(08-25-2013 11:44 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(08-25-2013 11:39 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(08-25-2013 11:30 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  Why would Army want to be in Division 4? They have a tough enough time competing as it is.

3 words.......

large national following

But they'd have a hard time winning any games. They don't even do well against MAC schools. They weren't competitive in CUSA. They just aren't set up for it.

yeah but people like watching them and two p5 programs consider them their rival. thats all they need to get in

(08-26-2013 12:29 AM)john01992 Wrote:  

(08-25-2013 11:44 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(08-25-2013 11:39 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(08-25-2013 11:30 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  Why would Army want to be in Division 4? They have a tough enough time competing as it is.

3 words.......

large national following

But they'd have a hard time winning any games. They don't even do well against MAC schools. They weren't competitive in CUSA. They just aren't set up for it.

yeah but people like watching them and two p5 programs consider them their rival. thats all they need to get in

What kind of ratings do they get?

(08-25-2013 11:51 PM)randaddyminer Wrote:  

(08-25-2013 11:38 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(08-25-2013 11:26 PM)Blackhawk-eye Wrote:  Here are the schools I think should merge to create a new Best of the Rest Conference and be included in D4:

MWC schools making up a West Conference:
Boise State
SDSU
Colorado Sate
Air Force
New Mexico
Fresno State
Utah State

AAC schools making up an East Conference:
UConn
Temple
Cincinnati
UCF
USF
Houston
SMU

Combine these 14 into the National Athletic Conference (The NAC or The National)

Independents who would join Notre Dame in the D4:
BYU
Army
Navy (who would bolt from whatever was left of the AAC)

i like where you are going with this however buffalo nevada & unlv should also be included instead of sdsu/frenso and especially bsu.

bsu is never gonna happen but IF were gonna let sdsu/frenso join in then you have to include tulane, LA monroe, & tulsa. a lot of people are pushing the ECU thing personally i dont see it but if ecu gets in that only opens the door for idaho/wyoming/new mexico st.

oh my gawd, someone has fallen off their rocker and/or is just stirring the pot. Buffalo doesn't even average 15k for football, nevada has problems averaging 20k when they're ranked in the top 20, same for tulsa... I can't believe I read all the way down to Tulsa, considering you listed La Monroe??????? really? USU attendance last year was barely 20k

I can't even believe I replied to this

la monroe is easily the mid major powerhouse of the future. i see a lot of good things coming out of that program. and like ive stated 100x before. d4 wont be decided by which schools are the best, but which schools are the best connected, have solid name brand recognition (not just sports wise), and come from a region that other p5 schools will be comfortable with allowing a d4 school to exist

(08-26-2013 12:33 AM)john01992 Wrote:  

(08-25-2013 11:51 PM)randaddyminer Wrote:  

(08-25-2013 11:38 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(08-25-2013 11:26 PM)Blackhawk-eye Wrote:  Here are the schools I think should merge to create a new Best of the Rest Conference and be included in D4:

MWC schools making up a West Conference:
Boise State
SDSU
Colorado Sate
Air Force
New Mexico
Fresno State
Utah State

AAC schools making up an East Conference:
UConn
Temple
Cincinnati
UCF
USF
Houston
SMU

Combine these 14 into the National Athletic Conference (The NAC or The National)

Independents who would join Notre Dame in the D4:
BYU
Army
Navy (who would bolt from whatever was left of the AAC)

i like where you are going with this however buffalo nevada & unlv should also be included instead of sdsu/frenso and especially bsu.

bsu is never gonna happen but IF were gonna let sdsu/frenso join in then you have to include tulane, LA monroe, & tulsa. a lot of people are pushing the ECU thing personally i dont see it but if ecu gets in that only opens the door for idaho/wyoming/new mexico st.

oh my gawd, someone has fallen off their rocker and/or is just stirring the pot. Buffalo doesn't even average 15k for football, nevada has problems averaging 20k when they're ranked in the top 20, same for tulsa... I can't believe I read all the way down to Tulsa, considering you listed La Monroe??????? really? USU attendance last year was barely 20k

I can't even believe I replied to this

la monroe is easily the mid major powerhouse of the future. i see a lot of good things coming out of that program. and like ive stated 100x before. d4 wont be decided by which schools are the best, but which schools are the best connected, have solid name brand recognition (not just sports wise), and come from a region that other p5 schools will be comfortable with allowing a d4 school to exist

So, even teams that might totally suck deserve to get in based on the other factors? Just trying to make sure I understand.