(08-26-2013 12:32 AM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(08-26-2013 12:29 AM)john01992 Wrote:  

(08-25-2013 11:44 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(08-25-2013 11:39 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(08-25-2013 11:30 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  Why would Army want to be in Division 4? They have a tough enough time competing as it is.

3 words.......

large national following

But they'd have a hard time winning any games. They don't even do well against MAC schools. They weren't competitive in CUSA. They just aren't set up for it.

yeah but people like watching them and two p5 programs consider them their rival. thats all they need to get in

What kind of ratings do they get?

i honestly didnt see it until i got to college when my ROTC friends introduced me to it. guys who dont care for FB make sure to watch the army-navy game just because. it was kinda a culture shock to me but these guys do take that game seriously.

we have a lot of guys go through our military and im willing to bet a large chunk of them get involved in the service academy games. what makes their following so valuable is not the size of it but that its so spread out. like byu & notre dame, its not the size itself that makes them valuable but that their fanbase spreads to so many states

(08-26-2013 12:37 AM)john01992 Wrote:  

(08-26-2013 12:32 AM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(08-26-2013 12:29 AM)john01992 Wrote:  

(08-25-2013 11:44 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(08-25-2013 11:39 PM)john01992 Wrote:  3 words.......

large national following

But they'd have a hard time winning any games. They don't even do well against MAC schools. They weren't competitive in CUSA. They just aren't set up for it.

yeah but people like watching them and two p5 programs consider them their rival. thats all they need to get in

What kind of ratings do they get?

i honestly didnt see it until i got to college when my ROTC friends introduced me to it. guys who dont care for FB make sure to watch the army-navy game just because. it was kinda a culture shock to me but these guys do take that game seriously.

we have a lot of guys go through our military and im willing to bet a large chunk of them get involved in the service academy games. what makes their following so valuable is not the size of it but that its so spread out. like byu & notre dame, its not the size itself that makes them valuable but that their fanbase spreads to so many states

Which is why I asked what kind of TV ratings they get. They only play Navy once a year. What about the rest of the games?

(08-26-2013 12:35 AM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(08-26-2013 12:33 AM)john01992 Wrote:  

(08-25-2013 11:51 PM)randaddyminer Wrote:  

(08-25-2013 11:38 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(08-25-2013 11:26 PM)Blackhawk-eye Wrote:  Here are the schools I think should merge to create a new Best of the Rest Conference and be included in D4:

MWC schools making up a West Conference:
Boise State
SDSU
Colorado Sate
Air Force
New Mexico
Fresno State
Utah State

AAC schools making up an East Conference:
UConn
Temple
Cincinnati
UCF
USF
Houston
SMU

Combine these 14 into the National Athletic Conference (The NAC or The National)

Independents who would join Notre Dame in the D4:
BYU
Army
Navy (who would bolt from whatever was left of the AAC)

i like where you are going with this however buffalo nevada & unlv should also be included instead of sdsu/frenso and especially bsu.

bsu is never gonna happen but IF were gonna let sdsu/frenso join in then you have to include tulane, LA monroe, & tulsa. a lot of people are pushing the ECU thing personally i dont see it but if ecu gets in that only opens the door for idaho/wyoming/new mexico st.

oh my gawd, someone has fallen off their rocker and/or is just stirring the pot. Buffalo doesn't even average 15k for football, nevada has problems averaging 20k when they're ranked in the top 20, same for tulsa... I can't believe I read all the way down to Tulsa, considering you listed La Monroe??????? really? USU attendance last year was barely 20k

I can't even believe I replied to this

la monroe is easily the mid major powerhouse of the future. i see a lot of good things coming out of that program. and like ive stated 100x before. d4 wont be decided by which schools are the best, but which schools are the best connected, have solid name brand recognition (not just sports wise), and come from a region that other p5 schools will be comfortable with allowing a d4 school to exist

So, even teams that might totally suck deserve to get in based on the other factors? Just trying to make sure I understand.

yes thats exactly what im saying.....

you know whose letting them in? the p5. the p5 is gonna do whats best for themselves nots whats best for the fans, or whats morally the right thing to do. and sometimes its not even the p5 whose making the call, sometimes its gonna be politicians pulling the strings especially out west

(08-26-2013 12:40 AM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(08-26-2013 12:37 AM)john01992 Wrote:  

(08-26-2013 12:32 AM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(08-26-2013 12:29 AM)john01992 Wrote:  

(08-25-2013 11:44 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  But they'd have a hard time winning any games. They don't even do well against MAC schools. They weren't competitive in CUSA. They just aren't set up for it.

yeah but people like watching them and two p5 programs consider them their rival. thats all they need to get in

What kind of ratings do they get?

i honestly didnt see it until i got to college when my ROTC friends introduced me to it. guys who dont care for FB make sure to watch the army-navy game just because. it was kinda a culture shock to me but these guys do take that game seriously.

we have a lot of guys go through our military and im willing to bet a large chunk of them get involved in the service academy games. what makes their following so valuable is not the size of it but that its so spread out. like byu & notre dame, its not the size itself that makes them valuable but that their fanbase spreads to so many states

Which is why I asked what kind of TV ratings they get. They only play Navy once a year. What about the rest of the games?

i dont know but because its a national fanbase they have value. i think the value of their fanbase is about the same as the best of the g5 schools

Here is an interesting thing to look at.....what if the MAC never had any football schools move on? What would the conference look like today?

1954(8): Cincinnati, Ohio, Miami, Western Mich, Toledo, Kent State, Bowling Green, Marshall

The conference has 8 members so when expanding to 10 in the 70's they don't have to take CMU/EMU.

1975(10): Cincinnati, Ohio, Miami, Western Mich, Toledo, Kent State, Bowling Green, Marshall, Ball State, Northern Illinois

The MAC doesn't get to 12 until 2002 when UCF becomes available.

2003(12): Cincinnati, Ohio, Miami, Western Mich, Toledo, Kent State, Bowling Green, Marshall, Ball State, Northern Illinois, Buffalo, UCF

Then the MAC decides to take in both Temple & UMass in football....

MAC 2012
West: Northern Illinois, WMU, Ball St, Toledo, BGSU, Miami, Cincinnati
East: Marshall, Ohio, Kent St, Buffalo, UMass, Temple, UCF

That is a league that would be comparable in FB/BB strength to today's AAC if it existed. Unfortunately for the MAC, UC, Temple, UCF and Marshall have all moved on while the MAC had to settle for EMU and Akron.

The average attendance would be a lot higher with this MAC lineup with the larger fanbases of the departed schools factored in. It hurt league wide ticket sales with the big guns removed.

(08-26-2013 12:33 AM)john01992 Wrote:  

(08-25-2013 11:51 PM)randaddyminer Wrote:  

(08-25-2013 11:38 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(08-25-2013 11:26 PM)Blackhawk-eye Wrote:  Here are the schools I think should merge to create a new Best of the Rest Conference and be included in D4:

MWC schools making up a West Conference:
Boise State
SDSU
Colorado Sate
Air Force
New Mexico
Fresno State
Utah State

AAC schools making up an East Conference:
UConn
Temple
Cincinnati
UCF
USF
Houston
SMU

Combine these 14 into the National Athletic Conference (The NAC or The National)

Independents who would join Notre Dame in the D4:
BYU
Army
Navy (who would bolt from whatever was left of the AAC)

i like where you are going with this however buffalo nevada & unlv should also be included instead of sdsu/frenso and especially bsu.

bsu is never gonna happen but IF were gonna let sdsu/frenso join in then you have to include tulane, LA monroe, & tulsa. a lot of people are pushing the ECU thing personally i dont see it but if ecu gets in that only opens the door for idaho/wyoming/new mexico st.

oh my gawd, someone has fallen off their rocker and/or is just stirring the pot. Buffalo doesn't even average 15k for football, nevada has problems averaging 20k when they're ranked in the top 20, same for tulsa... I can't believe I read all the way down to Tulsa, considering you listed La Monroe??????? really? USU attendance last year was barely 20k

I can't even believe I replied to this

la monroe is easily the mid major powerhouse of the future. i see a lot of good things coming out of that program. and like ive stated 100x before. d4 wont be decided by which schools are the best, but which schools are the best connected, have solid name brand recognition (not just sports wise), and come from a region that other p5 schools will be comfortable with allowing a d4 school to exist

I've heard of a university in Louisiana, Monroe, but I honestly couldn't tell you what conference they play in (an educated guess would be the sun belt), nor what their mascot is, so I don't know about this brand recognition you're talking about.

(08-26-2013 12:55 AM)randaddyminer Wrote:  

(08-26-2013 12:33 AM)john01992 Wrote:  

(08-25-2013 11:51 PM)randaddyminer Wrote:  

(08-25-2013 11:38 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(08-25-2013 11:26 PM)Blackhawk-eye Wrote:  Here are the schools I think should merge to create a new Best of the Rest Conference and be included in D4:

MWC schools making up a West Conference:
Boise State
SDSU
Colorado Sate
Air Force
New Mexico
Fresno State
Utah State

AAC schools making up an East Conference:
UConn
Temple
Cincinnati
UCF
USF
Houston
SMU

Combine these 14 into the National Athletic Conference (The NAC or The National)

Independents who would join Notre Dame in the D4:
BYU
Army
Navy (who would bolt from whatever was left of the AAC)

i like where you are going with this however buffalo nevada & unlv should also be included instead of sdsu/frenso and especially bsu.

bsu is never gonna happen but IF were gonna let sdsu/frenso join in then you have to include tulane, LA monroe, & tulsa. a lot of people are pushing the ECU thing personally i dont see it but if ecu gets in that only opens the door for idaho/wyoming/new mexico st.

oh my gawd, someone has fallen off their rocker and/or is just stirring the pot. Buffalo doesn't even average 15k for football, nevada has problems averaging 20k when they're ranked in the top 20, same for tulsa... I can't believe I read all the way down to Tulsa, considering you listed La Monroe??????? really? USU attendance last year was barely 20k

I can't even believe I replied to this

la monroe is easily the mid major powerhouse of the future. i see a lot of good things coming out of that program. and like ive stated 100x before. d4 wont be decided by which schools are the best, but which schools are the best connected, have solid name brand recognition (not just sports wise), and come from a region that other p5 schools will be comfortable with allowing a d4 school to exist

I've heard of a university in Louisiana, Monroe, but I honestly couldn't tell you what conference they play in (an educated guess would be the sun belt), nor what their mascot is, so I don't know about this brand recognition you're talking about.

They don't have brand recognition in the Midwest either.

State our case? Experiences like this......skip to 1:08. We put on a great tv atmosphere. These cameramen kind of sucked but oh well. Some good shots at the end.

Enough said. Some of you need to get a clue and realize there isn't one particular formula for realignment. The realignment board sure has taken a hit lately.


Here's another video just for fun. Don't mind the first few seconds.

(08-26-2013 12:55 AM)randaddyminer Wrote:  

(08-26-2013 12:33 AM)john01992 Wrote:  

(08-25-2013 11:51 PM)randaddyminer Wrote:  

(08-25-2013 11:38 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(08-25-2013 11:26 PM)Blackhawk-eye Wrote:  Here are the schools I think should merge to create a new Best of the Rest Conference and be included in D4:

MWC schools making up a West Conference:
Boise State
SDSU
Colorado Sate
Air Force
New Mexico
Fresno State
Utah State

AAC schools making up an East Conference:
UConn
Temple
Cincinnati
UCF
USF
Houston
SMU

Combine these 14 into the National Athletic Conference (The NAC or The National)

Independents who would join Notre Dame in the D4:
BYU
Army
Navy (who would bolt from whatever was left of the AAC)

i like where you are going with this however buffalo nevada & unlv should also be included instead of sdsu/frenso and especially bsu.

bsu is never gonna happen but IF were gonna let sdsu/frenso join in then you have to include tulane, LA monroe, & tulsa. a lot of people are pushing the ECU thing personally i dont see it but if ecu gets in that only opens the door for idaho/wyoming/new mexico st.

oh my gawd, someone has fallen off their rocker and/or is just stirring the pot. Buffalo doesn't even average 15k for football, nevada has problems averaging 20k when they're ranked in the top 20, same for tulsa... I can't believe I read all the way down to Tulsa, considering you listed La Monroe??????? really? USU attendance last year was barely 20k

I can't even believe I replied to this

la monroe is easily the mid major powerhouse of the future. i see a lot of good things coming out of that program. and like ive stated 100x before. d4 wont be decided by which schools are the best, but which schools are the best connected, have solid name brand recognition (not just sports wise), and come from a region that other p5 schools will be comfortable with allowing a d4 school to exist

I've heard of a university in Louisiana, Monroe, but I honestly couldn't tell you what conference they play in (an educated guess would be the sun belt), nor what their mascot is, so I don't know about this brand recognition you're talking about.

i like LA monroe not because they are a good brand but because they come from a state that needs another d4 team and are easily the next boise st.

(08-26-2013 12:57 AM)ncbeta Wrote:  



State our case? Experiences like this......skip to 1:08. We put on a great tv atmosphere. These cameramen kind of sucked but oh well. Some good shots at the end.

Enough said. Some of you need to get a clue and realize there isn't one particular formula for realignment. The realignment board sure has taken a hit lately.


Here's another video just for fun. Don't mind the first few seconds.

the carolina market is saturated and thus they dont need another program, plus do you really think the carolina schools want to elevate a program within their state.

politics can help a school, and in other cases it can kill a school. and ECU has a big roadblock with that

It's kind of ironic that people want to use attendance to block out the schools that have good G5 teams but bad attendance, and then use politics or markets to block out those that have good attendance. How convenient.

(08-26-2013 01:00 AM)john01992 Wrote:  

(08-26-2013 12:55 AM)randaddyminer Wrote:  

(08-26-2013 12:33 AM)john01992 Wrote:  

(08-25-2013 11:51 PM)randaddyminer Wrote:  

(08-25-2013 11:38 PM)john01992 Wrote:  i like where you are going with this however buffalo nevada & unlv should also be included instead of sdsu/frenso and especially bsu.

bsu is never gonna happen but IF were gonna let sdsu/frenso join in then you have to include tulane, LA monroe, & tulsa. a lot of people are pushing the ECU thing personally i dont see it but if ecu gets in that only opens the door for idaho/wyoming/new mexico st.

oh my gawd, someone has fallen off their rocker and/or is just stirring the pot. Buffalo doesn't even average 15k for football, nevada has problems averaging 20k when they're ranked in the top 20, same for tulsa... I can't believe I read all the way down to Tulsa, considering you listed La Monroe??????? really? USU attendance last year was barely 20k

I can't even believe I replied to this

la monroe is easily the mid major powerhouse of the future. i see a lot of good things coming out of that program. and like ive stated 100x before. d4 wont be decided by which schools are the best, but which schools are the best connected, have solid name brand recognition (not just sports wise), and come from a region that other p5 schools will be comfortable with allowing a d4 school to exist

I've heard of a university in Louisiana, Monroe, but I honestly couldn't tell you what conference they play in (an educated guess would be the sun belt), nor what their mascot is, so I don't know about this brand recognition you're talking about.

i like LA monroe not because they are a good brand but because they come from a state that needs another d4 team and are easily the next boise st.

I can think of several states who are larger that only have 1 team, also

(08-26-2013 01:06 AM)NIU007 Wrote:  It's kind of ironic that people want to use attendance to block out the schools that have good G5 teams but bad attendance, and then use politics or markets to block out those that have good attendance. How convenient.

i have NEVER used the attendance argument.

(08-26-2013 01:06 AM)randaddyminer Wrote:  

(08-26-2013 01:00 AM)john01992 Wrote:  

(08-26-2013 12:55 AM)randaddyminer Wrote:  

(08-26-2013 12:33 AM)john01992 Wrote:  

(08-25-2013 11:51 PM)randaddyminer Wrote:  oh my gawd, someone has fallen off their rocker and/or is just stirring the pot. Buffalo doesn't even average 15k for football, nevada has problems averaging 20k when they're ranked in the top 20, same for tulsa... I can't believe I read all the way down to Tulsa, considering you listed La Monroe??????? really? USU attendance last year was barely 20k

I can't even believe I replied to this

la monroe is easily the mid major powerhouse of the future. i see a lot of good things coming out of that program. and like ive stated 100x before. d4 wont be decided by which schools are the best, but which schools are the best connected, have solid name brand recognition (not just sports wise), and come from a region that other p5 schools will be comfortable with allowing a d4 school to exist

I've heard of a university in Louisiana, Monroe, but I honestly couldn't tell you what conference they play in (an educated guess would be the sun belt), nor what their mascot is, so I don't know about this brand recognition you're talking about.

i like LA monroe not because they are a good brand but because they come from a state that needs another d4 team and are easily the next boise st.

I can think of several states who are larger that only have 1 team, also

LA is a major football state these days. state size doesnt matter, what matters is can this state support another d4 team and LA can easily do so. if you name ohio as one of those states dont because i have said plenty of times that cincy & ohio should get in

(08-26-2013 01:03 AM)john01992 Wrote:  

(08-26-2013 12:57 AM)ncbeta Wrote:  



State our case? Experiences like this......skip to 1:08. We put on a great tv atmosphere. These cameramen kind of sucked but oh well. Some good shots at the end.

Enough said. Some of you need to get a clue and realize there isn't one particular formula for realignment. The realignment board sure has taken a hit lately.


Here's another video just for fun. Don't mind the first few seconds.

the carolina market is saturated and thus they dont need another program, plus do you really think the carolina schools want to elevate a program within their state.

politics can help a school, and in other cases it can kill a school. and ECU has a big roadblock with that

You severely overestimate the presence of duke and wake football fans in North Carolina. Ecu is and has always been big 3 in football. You also under estimate the passion for college sports in North Carolina. What you also fail to realize is ECU DOMINATES Eastern North Carolina with a population of over 2 million and has a large pull in the rest of the states 10m+. The current NC house/senate would not block ECU from D4 status if they could. They would see it as an economic gain.

(08-26-2013 01:17 AM)ncbeta Wrote:  

(08-26-2013 01:03 AM)john01992 Wrote:  

(08-26-2013 12:57 AM)ncbeta Wrote:  



State our case? Experiences like this......skip to 1:08. We put on a great tv atmosphere. These cameramen kind of sucked but oh well. Some good shots at the end.

Enough said. Some of you need to get a clue and realize there isn't one particular formula for realignment. The realignment board sure has taken a hit lately.


Here's another video just for fun. Don't mind the first few seconds.

the carolina market is saturated and thus they dont need another program, plus do you really think the carolina schools want to elevate a program within their state.

politics can help a school, and in other cases it can kill a school. and ECU has a big roadblock with that

You severely over-estimate the presence of duke and wake football fans in North Carolina. Ecu is and has always been big 3 in football. You also under estimate the passion for college sports in North Carolina. What you also fail to realize is ECU DOMINATES Eastern North Carolina with a population of over 2 million and has a large pull in the rest of the states 10m+. The current NC house/senate would not block ECU from D4 status if they could. They would see it as an economic gain.

how many times do i have to say it has nothing to do with fan size but politics. you have 4 well established schools who want nothing to do with ECU and make up the vast majority of the power in that state.

(08-26-2013 01:24 AM)john01992 Wrote:  

(08-26-2013 01:17 AM)ncbeta Wrote:  

(08-26-2013 01:03 AM)john01992 Wrote:  

(08-26-2013 12:57 AM)ncbeta Wrote:  



State our case? Experiences like this......skip to 1:08. We put on a great tv atmosphere. These cameramen kind of sucked but oh well. Some good shots at the end.

Enough said. Some of you need to get a clue and realize there isn't one particular formula for realignment. The realignment board sure has taken a hit lately.


Here's another video just for fun. Don't mind the first few seconds.

the carolina market is saturated and thus they dont need another program, plus do you really think the carolina schools want to elevate a program within their state.

politics can help a school, and in other cases it can kill a school. and ECU has a big roadblock with that

You severely over-estimate the presence of duke and wake football fans in North Carolina. Ecu is and has always been big 3 in football. You also under estimate the passion for college sports in North Carolina. What you also fail to realize is ECU DOMINATES Eastern North Carolina with a population of over 2 million and has a large pull in the rest of the states 10m+. The current NC house/senate would not block ECU from D4 status if they could. They would see it as an economic gain.

how many times do i have to say it has nothing to do with fan size but politics. you have 4 well established schools who want nothing to do with ECU and make up the vast majority of the power in that state.

And what exactly do you know about North Carolina politics? Our state politicians would not block ECU as an indy to D4. UNC would block from ACC but that's about it. Our state politicians are too busy trying to cut every government expense they can while trying to bring money in.... to think our conservative super majority would try to block ECU from bringing $ to the most conservative part of the state (Eastern NC) is laughable.



for my post above: Those were a lot of "you" statements and I didn't mean to come off as so arrogant. What I really mean to say is people see wake/duke/acc all together and just assume Ecu plays 5th fiddle which isn't true. We dominate a large portion of the state, have a big pull in the rest of the state but just always draw the short stick. You just have to come see it for yourself to really know...drive down I-40 (our main interstate) and you see ECU stickers everywhere.

the thing you need to realize about ECU is that for the same reasons you mentioned will be the same reason why they dont get in. they are good enough to get in which makes them such a threat. besides the NC schools not wanting ECU you have to look at other schools like uva, vtech, scar, & clemson not wanting another regional school to get elevated and compete with them later on down the road. another big reason for why they wont get in is because of another school called troy.

troy has a lot of similarities to ECU. they are a public school thats bigger than ECU and looking at fanbase size, ive seen them HIGHER than ECU in rankings.

its hard to contemplate ecu getting in without troy seeing it and thinking they should be in too. that especially wont roll over well with bama/auburn

and if ecu/troy get in then we start looking at arkansas state, georgia state etc.

the point is a lot of schools dont want another school in the south to be elevated in status, especially one like ecu who if elevated is strong enough to be competitive with them.

(08-26-2013 01:00 AM)john01992 Wrote:  i like LA monroe not because they are a good brand but because they come from a state that needs another d4 team and are easily the next boise st.

Except for the fact they have no fans, what fans they do have are LSU fans first, and unlike Boise who has rarely had a losing season in it's history other than a blip in 1987 where they won the I-AA championship La-Monroe really hasn't won at any level they have been at.

As for LA needing another D4 team there are at least three candidates in the Bayou State better than La-Monroe in Tulane, La Tech, and La-Lafayette.

(08-26-2013 01:26 AM)ncbeta Wrote:  

(08-26-2013 01:24 AM)john01992 Wrote:  

(08-26-2013 01:17 AM)ncbeta Wrote:  

(08-26-2013 01:03 AM)john01992 Wrote:  

(08-26-2013 12:57 AM)ncbeta Wrote:  



State our case? Experiences like this......skip to 1:08. We put on a great tv atmosphere. These cameramen kind of sucked but oh well. Some good shots at the end.

Enough said. Some of you need to get a clue and realize there isn't one particular formula for realignment. The realignment board sure has taken a hit lately.


Here's another video just for fun. Don't mind the first few seconds.

the carolina market is saturated and thus they dont need another program, plus do you really think the carolina schools want to elevate a program within their state.

politics can help a school, and in other cases it can kill a school. and ECU has a big roadblock with that

You severely over-estimate the presence of duke and wake football fans in North Carolina. Ecu is and has always been big 3 in football. You also under estimate the passion for college sports in North Carolina. What you also fail to realize is ECU DOMINATES Eastern North Carolina with a population of over 2 million and has a large pull in the rest of the states 10m+. The current NC house/senate would not block ECU from D4 status if they could. They would see it as an economic gain.

how many times do i have to say it has nothing to do with fan size but politics. you have 4 well established schools who want nothing to do with ECU and make up the vast majority of the power in that state.

And what exactly do you know about North Carolina politics? Our state politicians would not block ECU as an indy to D4. UNC would block from ACC but that's about it. Our state politicians are too busy trying to cut every government expense they can while trying to bring money in.... to think our conservative super majority would try to block ECU from bringing $ to the most conservative part of the state (Eastern NC) is laughable.



for my post above: Those were a lot of "you" statements and I didn't mean to come off as so arrogant. What I really mean to say is people see wake/duke/acc all together and just assume Ecu plays 5th fiddle which isn't true. We dominate a large portion of the state, have a big pull in the rest of the state but just always draw the short stick. You just have to come see it for yourself to really know...drive down I-40 (our main interstate) and you see ECU stickers everywhere.

im not saying they play second fiddle, but this is not like virginia 2003 where we have 2 major state schools sticking together. this is 2 state schools + 2 private school all with huge alumni sizes and thats just a very lethal combo.

go ask the northeast public schools how hard it is to be successful when you have well established private schools who are determined to weaken you. look at texas and how bad the public schools are forced to fight it out with each other

if this were a case of 1 or even 2 schools blocking you different story. but 4 is just insane. add on that every regional p5 school will most likely align against this move and its just impossible