(11-19-2014 09:38 AM)bigredmachine Wrote:  All these scenarios about conference realignment fail to count in the major driver -- money. TV sets drive the value of adding schools, not butts in seats. Being in major TV markets is what makes many of the schools attractive. The Big 12 and the AAC need eyeballs on TV's. The 2012 Orange Bowl was the most watched bowl game that year. Why? Because NIU was in it. Period. NIU is 60 miles west of Chicago in a market of over 8 million people. NIU should be a major contender for either conference. As they are now constituted, NIU provides a nearby rival for Iowa State in the Big 12 or a Midwest rival for Cincinnati. But most importantly, NIU is on the verge of a $138 million upgrade to their athletic facilities and the airport in DeKalb may soon be upgraded to permit teams to fly directly into DeKalb. Start factoring in NIU when you develop conference realignment scenarios.

That's not an accurate statement. The FSU-NIU Orange Bowl was actually the lowest-rated of the BCS bowls that year and was also behind the non-BCS Cotton Bowl and Capital One Bowls for viewership.

http://www.sportsmediawatch.com/2013/01/...he-charts/

Now, I don't disagree that the Big 12 needs better non-Texas markets. I've been saying that all along that the Big 12 needs to expand for that reason. NIU is also my favorite G5 school, but they're still a tough sell for a P5 league compared to the other more established options out there that have less direct competition (i.e. Cincinnati, BYU, Colorado St., UNLV, UConn, San Diego St., etc.) or in more fertile recruiting areas (i.e. UCF, USF, Tulane, etc.). Chicago is a massive market (I'm a lifelong native), but it's also one of the most competitive sports markets in the country with 5 pro teams, Notre Dame, Illinois and Northwestern all directly sharing the market plus the huge influx of grads from all of the other Big Ten schools. This is not an untapped or underrepresented college sports market for the P5 in the way that you can argue that the NYC-to-Boston corridor is or the fast-growing Interior West (i.e. Nevada, New Mexico, non-Denver portion of Colorado, etc.) might be.

(11-19-2014 10:23 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(11-19-2014 09:38 AM)bigredmachine Wrote:  All these scenarios about conference realignment fail to count in the major driver -- money. TV sets drive the value of adding schools, not butts in seats. Being in major TV markets is what makes many of the schools attractive. The Big 12 and the AAC need eyeballs on TV's. The 2012 Orange Bowl was the most watched bowl game that year. Why? Because NIU was in it. Period. NIU is 60 miles west of Chicago in a market of over 8 million people. NIU should be a major contender for either conference. As they are now constituted, NIU provides a nearby rival for Iowa State in the Big 12 or a Midwest rival for Cincinnati. But most importantly, NIU is on the verge of a $138 million upgrade to their athletic facilities and the airport in DeKalb may soon be upgraded to permit teams to fly directly into DeKalb. Start factoring in NIU when you develop conference realignment scenarios.

That's not an accurate statement. The FSU-NIU Orange Bowl was actually the lowest-rated of the BCS bowls that year and was also behind the non-BCS Cotton Bowl and Capital One Bowls for viewership.

http://www.sportsmediawatch.com/2013/01/...he-charts/

Now, I don't disagree that the Big 12 needs better non-Texas markets. I've been saying that all along that the Big 12 needs to expand for that reason. NIU is also my favorite G5 school, but they're still a tough sell for a P5 league compared to the other more established options out there that have less direct competition (i.e. Cincinnati, BYU, Colorado St., UNLV, UConn, San Diego St., etc.) or in more fertile recruiting areas (i.e. UCF, USF, Tulane, etc.). Chicago is a massive market (I'm a lifelong native), but it's also one of the most competitive sports markets in the country with 5 pro teams, Notre Dame, Illinois and Northwestern all directly sharing the market plus the huge influx of grads from all of the other Big Ten schools. This is not an untapped or underrepresented college sports market for the P5 in the way that you can argue that the NYC-to-Boston corridor is or the fast-growing Interior West (i.e. Nevada, New Mexico, non-Denver portion of Colorado, etc.) might be.

Any traction for Boisestate Frank?

(11-19-2014 09:38 AM)bigredmachine Wrote:  All these scenarios about conference realignment fail to count in the major driver -- money. TV sets drive the value of adding schools, not butts in seats. Being in major TV markets is what makes many of the schools attractive. The Big 12 and the AAC need eyeballs on TV's. The 2012 Orange Bowl was the most watched bowl game that year. Why? Because NIU was in it. Period. NIU is 60 miles west of Chicago in a market of over 8 million people. NIU should be a major contender for either conference. As they are now constituted, NIU provides a nearby rival for Iowa State in the Big 12 or a Midwest rival for Cincinnati. But most importantly, NIU is on the verge of a $138 million upgrade to their athletic facilities and the airport in DeKalb may soon be upgraded to permit teams to fly directly into DeKalb. Start factoring in NIU when you develop conference realignment scenarios.

I was born in Eastern Iowa, and I'm well aware of NIU, having many family from the Quad Cities (Moline, IL). Obviously, you are a huge fan, but you are being dishonest here. I watched that Orange Bowl with NIU and Florida St and it was a FLOP. Not only was the game not competitive, but the TV ratings were very bad; if I remember correctly one of the lowest watched Orange Bowls EVER. NIU is not an AAC candidate. Nor have I heard of the $138 million athletic upgrade at NIU you're talking about or the DeKalb airport upgrade. Nice try bud.

(11-19-2014 10:40 AM)BLEEDBLUE81 Wrote:  

(11-19-2014 10:23 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(11-19-2014 09:38 AM)bigredmachine Wrote:  All these scenarios about conference realignment fail to count in the major driver -- money. TV sets drive the value of adding schools, not butts in seats. Being in major TV markets is what makes many of the schools attractive. The Big 12 and the AAC need eyeballs on TV's. The 2012 Orange Bowl was the most watched bowl game that year. Why? Because NIU was in it. Period. NIU is 60 miles west of Chicago in a market of over 8 million people. NIU should be a major contender for either conference. As they are now constituted, NIU provides a nearby rival for Iowa State in the Big 12 or a Midwest rival for Cincinnati. But most importantly, NIU is on the verge of a $138 million upgrade to their athletic facilities and the airport in DeKalb may soon be upgraded to permit teams to fly directly into DeKalb. Start factoring in NIU when you develop conference realignment scenarios.

That's not an accurate statement. The FSU-NIU Orange Bowl was actually the lowest-rated of the BCS bowls that year and was also behind the non-BCS Cotton Bowl and Capital One Bowls for viewership.

http://www.sportsmediawatch.com/2013/01/...he-charts/

Now, I don't disagree that the Big 12 needs better non-Texas markets. I've been saying that all along that the Big 12 needs to expand for that reason. NIU is also my favorite G5 school, but they're still a tough sell for a P5 league compared to the other more established options out there that have less direct competition (i.e. Cincinnati, BYU, Colorado St., UNLV, UConn, San Diego St., etc.) or in more fertile recruiting areas (i.e. UCF, USF, Tulane, etc.). Chicago is a massive market (I'm a lifelong native), but it's also one of the most competitive sports markets in the country with 5 pro teams, Notre Dame, Illinois and Northwestern all directly sharing the market plus the huge influx of grads from all of the other Big Ten schools. This is not an untapped or underrepresented college sports market for the P5 in the way that you can argue that the NYC-to-Boston corridor is or the fast-growing Interior West (i.e. Nevada, New Mexico, non-Denver portion of Colorado, etc.) might be.

Any traction for Boisestate Frank?

In terms of pure football excellence, Boise State would/should obviously be on the radar. If you're talking about national TV drawing power, Boise State is arguably the best option out of anyone in the G5, so that goes a long way.

A drawback for Boise State to overcome is that it doesn't bring any demographic depth to the Big 12 (which is their biggest long-term concern as they consist of all small markets outside of Texas). Granted, West Virginia didn't really, either (although they have the argument that they reach into the Western PA region or even the western tips of the DC area). I really think Boise State needs to step up its academics, as well - they aren't a main driver in the Big 12 compared to Big Ten or Pac-12 expansion, but there's still a baseline that the P5 leagues want to see.

(11-19-2014 10:40 AM)BLEEDBLUE81 Wrote:  

(11-19-2014 10:23 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(11-19-2014 09:38 AM)bigredmachine Wrote:  All these scenarios about conference realignment fail to count in the major driver -- money. TV sets drive the value of adding schools, not butts in seats. Being in major TV markets is what makes many of the schools attractive. The Big 12 and the AAC need eyeballs on TV's. The 2012 Orange Bowl was the most watched bowl game that year. Why? Because NIU was in it. Period. NIU is 60 miles west of Chicago in a market of over 8 million people. NIU should be a major contender for either conference. As they are now constituted, NIU provides a nearby rival for Iowa State in the Big 12 or a Midwest rival for Cincinnati. But most importantly, NIU is on the verge of a $138 million upgrade to their athletic facilities and the airport in DeKalb may soon be upgraded to permit teams to fly directly into DeKalb. Start factoring in NIU when you develop conference realignment scenarios.

That's not an accurate statement. The FSU-NIU Orange Bowl was actually the lowest-rated of the BCS bowls that year and was also behind the non-BCS Cotton Bowl and Capital One Bowls for viewership.

http://www.sportsmediawatch.com/2013/01/...he-charts/

Now, I don't disagree that the Big 12 needs better non-Texas markets. I've been saying that all along that the Big 12 needs to expand for that reason. NIU is also my favorite G5 school, but they're still a tough sell for a P5 league compared to the other more established options out there that have less direct competition (i.e. Cincinnati, BYU, Colorado St., UNLV, UConn, San Diego St., etc.) or in more fertile recruiting areas (i.e. UCF, USF, Tulane, etc.). Chicago is a massive market (I'm a lifelong native), but it's also one of the most competitive sports markets in the country with 5 pro teams, Notre Dame, Illinois and Northwestern all directly sharing the market plus the huge influx of grads from all of the other Big Ten schools. This is not an untapped or underrepresented college sports market for the P5 in the way that you can argue that the NYC-to-Boston corridor is or the fast-growing Interior West (i.e. Nevada, New Mexico, non-Denver portion of Colorado, etc.) might be.

Any traction for Boisestate Frank?

Not until they get rid of the blue field.

(11-19-2014 10:47 AM)billybobby777 Wrote:  

(11-19-2014 09:38 AM)bigredmachine Wrote:  All these scenarios about conference realignment fail to count in the major driver -- money. TV sets drive the value of adding schools, not butts in seats. Being in major TV markets is what makes many of the schools attractive. The Big 12 and the AAC need eyeballs on TV's. The 2012 Orange Bowl was the most watched bowl game that year. Why? Because NIU was in it. Period. NIU is 60 miles west of Chicago in a market of over 8 million people. NIU should be a major contender for either conference. As they are now constituted, NIU provides a nearby rival for Iowa State in the Big 12 or a Midwest rival for Cincinnati. But most importantly, NIU is on the verge of a $138 million upgrade to their athletic facilities and the airport in DeKalb may soon be upgraded to permit teams to fly directly into DeKalb. Start factoring in NIU when you develop conference realignment scenarios.

I was born in Eastern Iowa, and I'm well aware of NIU, having many family from the Quad Cities (Moline, IL). Obviously, you are a huge fan, but you are being dishonest here. I watched that Orange Bowl with NIU and Florida St and it was a FLOP. Not only was the game not competitive, but the TV ratings were very bad; if I remember correctly one of the lowest watched Orange Bowls EVER. NIU is not an AAC candidate. Nor have I heard of the $138 million athletic upgrade at NIU you're talking about or the DeKalb airport upgrade. Nice try bud.

The runway at Dekalb's airport just upgraded to take 747's and more expansion is planned. The $138 Mil Athletics Master Plan was officially announced weeks ago and the whispers are that a few key donors are already lined up.

Dekalb is in the Chicago Media Market (#3 y'all). Have fun with another "Texas" school when the conference is already solid in that state.

(11-19-2014 01:03 PM)NIUfilmmaker Wrote:  Dekalb is in the Chicago Media Market (#3 y'all). Have fun with another "Texas" school when the conference is already solid in that state.

Isn't Deklab about an hour plus away from Chicago? That sounds like a case of Deklab being covered by the Chicago TV market because Chicago stations cover the area (every city is covered by a TV market), then a case of the Chicago TV market being a part of the NIU territory.

To use an example, Western Kentucky (Bowling Green) is in the Nashville TV market, as Nashville TV stations are available in Bowling Green. However, Nashville is not what we would say is part of Western Kentucky's territory.

No, it will never be a true championship until it goes to 8 teams. It must have the 5 P Champions and the three highest ranked teams that are P Champions.

(11-19-2014 01:14 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  

(11-19-2014 01:03 PM)NIUfilmmaker Wrote:  Dekalb is in the Chicago Media Market (#3 y'all). Have fun with another "Texas" school when the conference is already solid in that state.

Isn't Deklab about an hour plus away from Chicago? That sounds like a case of Deklab being covered by the Chicago TV market because Chicago stations cover the area (every city is covered by a TV market), then a case of the Chicago TV market being a part of the NIU territory.

To use an example, Western Kentucky (Bowling Green) is in the Nashville TV market, as Nashville TV stations are available in Bowling Green. However, Nashville is not what we would say is part of Western Kentucky's territory.

Yeah, I'd have to agree NIU is not as valuable as it would be if it were actually in Chicago, or even the suburbs of Chicago. I am sure being within the market still carries some weight though.

(11-19-2014 01:14 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  

(11-19-2014 01:03 PM)NIUfilmmaker Wrote:  Dekalb is in the Chicago Media Market (#3 y'all). Have fun with another "Texas" school when the conference is already solid in that state.

Isn't Deklab about an hour plus away from Chicago? That sounds like a case of Deklab being covered by the Chicago TV market because Chicago stations cover the area (every city is covered by a TV market), then a case of the Chicago TV market being a part of the NIU territory.

To use an example, Western Kentucky (Bowling Green) is in the Nashville TV market, as Nashville TV stations are available in Bowling Green. However, Nashville is not what we would say is part of Western Kentucky's territory.

Technically, DeKalb is part of both the Chicago TV market and the broadest definition of the metro area, although it is the VERY western fringe. It's over 60 miles from downtown Chicago, so it's sort of in soon-to-be-exurb status. In relation to the Chicago Loop, DeKalb is to the west as Kenosha, Wisconsin is to the north and Michigan City, Indiana (on the Indiana/Michigan border) is to the east. All of those towns are within the broader definition of the Chicago metro area and are counted in the Chicago TV market (with Kenosha having a hybrid of Chicago and Milwaukee TV stations).

It sounds to me the DeKalb airport could be angling to be used by ultra discount (Allegiant/Spirit) airlines and other vacation charter outfits as a way to get access to the wealthy western suburbs without the hassle of using O'Hare.

No Playoff for Big XII until they add teams

By the way, Cincinnati looks P5 to me

(11-19-2014 04:23 PM)EvilVodka Wrote:  No Playoff for Big XII until they add teams

By the way, Cincinnati looks P5 to me

Oddly this would be extremely significant in altering the future of much more than just the Big 12. Additions in the Big 12 shifts the focus of future realignment almost totally. If the Big 12 adds anyone now it stabilizes the conference in perception. The perception now is that they won't expand so that Texas and Oklahoma keep their options open for future moves. Additions anchor the conference down further and end such speculations.

The ending of the possibility of expansion from the Big 12 then shifts the focus back to the ACC. If the ACC can land another school and hold out the hopes for N.D. full inclusion then the focus shifts further. Now if the Big 10 and SEC do want to add markets and grow to 16 (and easier scheduling and divisional breakdowns) then their focus must shift to growth options instead of name brand product.

East Carolina, Central and South Florida, Tulane, Houston, Rice, S.M.U., Temple, Connecticut, and perhaps Buffalo and Old Dominion start to be interesting prospects for a wide variety of reasons. In some ways that levels the playing field.

Since the PAC's best prospects (outside of the Big 12) are presently programs in the G5 like San Diego State, Nevada, U.N.L.V., New Mexico, Hawaii, etc. then their prospect group no longer places them at a disadvantage. If the Big 10's options were Temple, Buffalo, Connecticut, etc., and the SEC's were Central Florida, South Florida, East Carolina, Rice, and S.M.U. then there is suddenly no loss of the perception of power if these P5 conferences add G5 schools.

Do I think any of this is likely? No. I think Texas and Oklahoma keep their options open. But if there is expansion in the Big 12 whether to 12 or 14 or 16 and it doesn't come from the ACC then the whole landscape changes IMO.

(11-19-2014 04:23 PM)EvilVodka Wrote:  No Playoff for Big XII until they add teams

Was their an official ruling on this?

(11-19-2014 03:11 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  It sounds to me the DeKalb airport could be angling to be used by ultra discount (Allegiant/Spirit) airlines and other vacation charter outfits as a way to get access to the wealthy western suburbs without the hassle of using O'Hare.

If that happened, I think Southwest would be all over that as well similar to how they are set up in NYC.

(11-19-2014 05:03 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  

(11-19-2014 03:11 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  It sounds to me the DeKalb airport could be angling to be used by ultra discount (Allegiant/Spirit) airlines and other vacation charter outfits as a way to get access to the wealthy western suburbs without the hassle of using O'Hare.

If that happened, I think Southwest would be all over that as well similar to how they are set up in NYC.

Would SW double up? Not sure they would flying into Midway airport.

(11-19-2014 05:03 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  

(11-19-2014 03:11 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  It sounds to me the DeKalb airport could be angling to be used by ultra discount (Allegiant/Spirit) airlines and other vacation charter outfits as a way to get access to the wealthy western suburbs without the hassle of using O'Hare.

If that happened, I think Southwest would be all over that as well similar to how they are set up in NYC.

Midway Airport is actually already Southwest's largest hub in the country. This is generally a great thing for Chicago travelers (as we have some of the most competitive airline ticket prices in the country since we have Southwest's top hub plus O'Hare has United's largest hub and American's 3rd largest hub), but it has also firmly entrenched O'Hare and Midway as the region's airline options. State and local officials have set aside land in the far south suburbs for a new airport for decades (look up "Peotone Airport" online) and the airline industry simply refuses to support it. I haven't ever heard any talk about DeKalb Airport expanding or attempting to get any commercial carriers - it's *really* tiny compared to even the Gary Airport (much less O'Hare and Midway).

(11-19-2014 05:07 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(11-19-2014 05:03 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  If that happened, I think Southwest would be all over that as well similar to how they are set up in NYC.

Would SW double up? Not sure they would flying into Midway airport.

Oh I am purely guessing. But they have three metro NYC airports and a couple in and around LA, so I would think anything is possible. With as much airport traffic as Chicago has (in large part due to being a hub for so many airlines as Frank mentioned), if a cheap second option showed up, just seems like it would be in their wheelhouse.

(11-19-2014 05:14 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  State and local officials have set aside land in the far south suburbs for a new airport for decades (look up "Peotone Airport" online) and the airline industry simply refuses to support it.

Just looked that up. Pretty interesting.

(11-19-2014 05:14 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  Midway Airport is actually already Southwest's largest hub in the country. This is generally a great thing for Chicago travelers (as we have some of the most competitive airline ticket prices in the country since we have Southwest's top hub plus O'Hare has United's largest hub and American's 3rd largest hub), but it has also firmly entrenched O'Hare and Midway as the region's airline options. State and local officials have set aside land in the far south suburbs for a new airport for decades (look up "Peotone Airport" online) and the airline industry simply refuses to support it. I haven't ever heard any talk about DeKalb Airport expanding or attempting to get any commercial carriers - it's *really* tiny compared to even the Gary Airport (much less O'Hare and Midway).

I know like flying out of Midway if at all possible. I live in the western suburbs and about equal distance from ORD and Midway, but prefer Midway far and away.

Peotone ever getting done? I'm not so sure, but man would those folks on the south side and NW Indiana would love that location.