omniorange
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RE: So, what will ACC do now?
(01-19-2016 08:14 AM)lumberpack4 Wrote: (01-18-2016 10:53 PM)omniorange Wrote: (01-18-2016 06:27 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote: (01-18-2016 04:08 PM)Ragu Wrote: (01-18-2016 03:58 PM)omniorange Wrote: People keep saying this, but it isn't true. For one FSU doesn't have the power to do something that big. UNC/Duke/UVA make the moves in this conference.
FSU fought for Miami when expansion was going down. They actually wanted only Miami.
Isn't this revisionist history? Miami was never coming alone. So FSU wanted Miami AND it wanted 12 for a championship game. Maybe it had to settle for BC and SU at that time but preferred VT and WVU, but to say they only wanted Miami is an outright distortion.
Cheers,
Neil
It's really not at all. You thinking FSU spearheaded it is what is revisionist history from an outsider who doesn't have facts straight.
I feel like this has been explained a thousand times. Here is what happened:
1. FSU and NC State AD's along with Gene Corrigan had been working with Paul Dee for a number of years regarding adding Miami. It was decided that going to 12 made the most sense since that created the most money.
2. Corrigan retired and left the matter to Swofford.
3. Swofford wrote a check on a verbal deal with Miami, BC, and Syracuse his ass could not cash as he made his verbal deal excluding UNC and Duke ptb.
4. VT knew what was going having been tipped off by a number of contracts in the conference. They began the political lobbying of UVa through the Va governor's office.
5. While formal rules indicate that you need 3/4 plus one to get in, there are informal rules and procedures regarding any existential threat felt by a member. If UVa said no to VT, there is not VT, so how to force them to say yes? Duke and UNC put UVa at the Va Governor's mercy by announcing they would oppose expansion. This was a tactic on UNC's and Duke's part becasue they saw the gain in VT football fans at their stadium and they were not ready or wanted Syracuse in the league.
6. The infamous conference call was a total cluster ****.
7. Rather than take schools one at a time, a motion was made to invite VT and Miami, and seconded and the question called. In that package format, and in that motion, VT was in and one of Syracuse or BC was out.
8. Now, how to stick it to Syracuse and Boehiem's mouth - NC State Chancellor made a motion to explore adding ND as the 12th before going to 12 and this passed as well.
9. Swofford was pissed but he failed to take into account UNC, Duke, and NC State's interests, assuming that as the fair haired boy who had worked at UVa and UNC, he could do no wrong.
10. Syracuse took the bait and ran their mouth, BC stayed positive and they were in.
The moral of the story, Duke and UNC almost always get what they want because they are more strategic and are thinking several steps ahead. UNC was able to fulfill a promise to VT made in 1954, and UNC was able to give UVa in-state competition. While it had been 50 years since VT was blackballed, there are many folks in the upper echelon of the Iron Dukes, Wolfpack Club, and Ed Foundation that do business every day with VT Hokies. You would also find the fingerprints of McGuire Woods if you had a large enough magnifying glass.
This is what happened in 2003, don't think for a minute UNC and Duke did not get what they wanted.
This is closer to the truth than FSU never wanted anyone other than Miami and would have been happy with just a Miami only expansion, which is what I responded to.
There are some minor inaccuracies in your post, especially #5 with the deluded belief the Duke and UNC wanted expansion to 12 all along, as long as it didn't involve Syracuse. I will say that if they saw they couldn't get Miami only which they fought for until the bitter end, in hindsight they probably were very happy with the addition of VT.
Cheers,
Neil
Neil, what makes you think you know more about how UNC and/or Duke thinks than I. Just because I am an NC State fan doesn't mean that I not a graduate of UNC and/or Duke, or that I and immediate family don't work or have worked at UNC and/or Duke, and done so in a capacity to hear and know what those at the top are thinking.
The Raleigh, Durham, Chapel Hill, Greensboro, Winston-Salem area is smaller than you think in many ways. BOT and BOG members and Iron Duke, Ed Foundation and WPC members are all cross pollinated on all State of NC boards and commissions - at least it was that way until McCrory became governor and it's not that much different.
Of course Duke and UNC would have preferred 10 instead of 12 - duh. They didn't want to loose round robin basketball games in the conference. However, once it was a foregone conclusion that Miami was coming and they made peace with that, the issue was who would be 11 and 12 and they ran that show along with NC State because Swofford forget to check in with the ptb and like I said made a promise to Jack Crouthmel that his ass could not cash.
Remember, at the time there were no "Yankee" schools in the ACC for want of a better descriptor - no Pitt, no BC, no Syracuse. Duke, NC State, and UNC did not want to add Syracuse for basketball reasons, not to mention not wanting to travel to Syracuse. Do you think Maryland and UVa wanted to add Syracuse at the time? No.
The deal that FSU, NC State, and Gene Corrigan worked out with Miami did include Syracuse but by the time of voting, State's AD was gone, Corrigan was retired and Dickie Baddour and the ptb at UNC had other ideas than the ideas Swofford inherited from Corrigan.
Not that it matters since my response was aimed at singling out this notion that FSU only wanted Miami and would have been fine with just that addition and that UNC and Duke did not get what they truly wanted, which you have conceded above but appeared to be denying in your earlier post but...
I have it on pretty good authority how the ACC voted that June 2003 night in order and why:
Voted NO to the Miami only proposal from UNC and Duke. This was deliberately done to put them in their place.
Voted YES to VT. Posters in general (not specifically you) keep forgetting that Miami was not voted on first. Rather they voted on VT first since they needed VT to get in to get UVA's "yes" vote on Miami. I also understand from a reliable source close to at least two individuals participating in that vote that night that the last two to vote on this one were from Fox (who attended via teleconference like Virginia's Casteen) and Keohane with Fox informing Keohane that she will vote "yes" to VT unless Duke changed it's mind on voting No to both Syracuse and BC. It was referred to as the "Russian Roulette" strategy.
Voted YES to Miami. They were the prize after all.
Then voted YES to table voting on further expansion that night, a motion that came from Casteen himself and seconded by Fox. This tabling motion was a pre-determined strategy for that night if the Russian Roulette strategy did not work. Stop and think for a moment what all of that truly means. And ND was NOT the reason.
Btw, I don't assume anything about what posters may or may not know. The assumption that you somehow have to know more about this particular meeting because of your connections doesn't mean that you know more about this particular meeting since you have no idea who I may have connections with. Like ND, SU has many many alum throughout the East Coast. One of which just happened to be over ALL of the North Carolina public schools at that time. Not that I am implying that is the source.
Cheers,
Neil
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