(03-18-2016 03:04 PM)gsu95 Wrote:  Charter schools are as big a scam as for profit schools.

That depends on a lot of different factors. Making a blanket statement like that is ridiculous.

(03-18-2016 03:00 PM)VA49er Wrote:  

(03-18-2016 02:42 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(03-18-2016 02:21 PM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  

(03-18-2016 01:43 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(03-18-2016 01:40 PM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  Why do you suppose that black students have more behavioral issues?

They don't, that's the problem.

Isn't that for the teachers and administrators to decide?

What are you driving at? Are you calling the teachers liars?

If the percentages of students getting suspended is disproportionately black then that doesn't make them liars. It makes them something else.

Playing the race card I see. Typical. Could it actually be the students fault? Why in the hades is it always someone else's fault?

Of course it could be the students fault. The problem is that if all things are equal, the percentages should be the same across all races. When one race gets suspended above all others, there's a problem.

(03-18-2016 01:32 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  Charter schools suspended higher percentages of black students and students with disabilities than traditional schools did. The overall difference between suspension rates in charters versus traditional schools isn't huge: In the 2011-12 academic year, charters suspended 7.8 percent of all students, compared with 6.7 percent for noncharters. But these gaps increase when you look at who is getting suspended: In charter schools, black students and students with disabilities were suspended at higher percentages in all grades than their peers in traditional schools. In middle and high schools, 12 percent more students with disabilities and 2.5 percent more black students were suspended in charters compared with noncharters.

Link

"While the report found that charter schools enroll higher percentages of black students and poor students than traditional schools, "

Explains the higher % of black students suspended right there. DUH! Most charter schools are in urban areas. Roxbury, mentioned in the article, is a traditionally black suburb of Boston. KIPP, also mentioned, is in heavy minority areas. Most of the charters in Atlanta are in black areas. People want an alternative to their dismal local schools.

(03-18-2016 04:11 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(03-18-2016 01:32 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  Charter schools suspended higher percentages of black students and students with disabilities than traditional schools did. The overall difference between suspension rates in charters versus traditional schools isn't huge: In the 2011-12 academic year, charters suspended 7.8 percent of all students, compared with 6.7 percent for noncharters. But these gaps increase when you look at who is getting suspended: In charter schools, black students and students with disabilities were suspended at higher percentages in all grades than their peers in traditional schools. In middle and high schools, 12 percent more students with disabilities and 2.5 percent more black students were suspended in charters compared with noncharters.

Link

"While the report found that charter schools enroll higher percentages of black students and poor students than traditional schools, "

Explains the higher % of black students suspended right there. DUH! Most charter schools are in urban areas. Roxbury, mentioned in the article, is a traditionally black suburb of Boston. KIPP, also mentioned, is in heavy minority areas. Most of the charters in Atlanta are in black areas. People want an alternative to their dismal local schools.

"What the authors of the report found especially worrisome was that close to half of all black students at middle and high school charter schools went to one of the 270 schools that was highly segregated (80 percent black) and where the suspension rate for black students was extremely high: 25 percent. Even more disconcerting, 235 charter schools suspended more than 50 percent of their enrolled students with disabilities, the researchers wrote.

The patterns among some charter schools of having high test scores and very high suspension rates prompted the authors of the report to conclude, "Although beyond the scope of this report, the possibility certainly exists that some charter schools are artificially boosting their test scores or graduation rates by using harsh discipline to discourage lower-achieving youth from continuing to attend."

(03-18-2016 04:05 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(03-18-2016 03:00 PM)VA49er Wrote:  

(03-18-2016 02:42 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(03-18-2016 02:21 PM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  

(03-18-2016 01:43 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  They don't, that's the problem.

Isn't that for the teachers and administrators to decide?

What are you driving at? Are you calling the teachers liars?

If the percentages of students getting suspended is disproportionately black then that doesn't make them liars. It makes them something else.

Playing the race card I see. Typical. Could it actually be the students fault? Why in the hades is it always someone else's fault?

Of course it could be the students fault. The problem is that if all things are equal, the percentages should be the same across all races. When one race gets suspended above all others, there's a problem.

And of course, the problems are obvious. 1) Black students are relatively more likely to be poor; 2) Black students are more likely to have been raised in single parent households meaning less parental supervision on average; and 3) Black students are more likely to resent authority (meaning they mouth off and get in trouble instead of saying yes sir and get a minor penalty).

All those studies that talk about suspensions fail to point out that it happens most in Black schools with Black teachers. My experience (admittedly not in all Black schools) is that Black teachers tend to be less tolerant of nonsense in the classroom.

(03-18-2016 01:35 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(03-18-2016 01:34 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Kids more likely to have behavioral issues are suspended more from schools which require stricter behavioral issues.

I don't see the problem.

The problem is that more of the students with "behavioral issues" are black.

so the schools are just supposed to let the black kids act out? bull****. It's on the parents.

(03-18-2016 03:04 PM)gsu95 Wrote:  Charter schools are as big a scam as for profit schools.

You're absolutely right and it just infuriates me. I read things like how for the current school year, New York City charter schools Success Academies received 22,000 applications for 2,300 spots, while Achievement First received 21,000 applications for 1,000 spots. What's wrong with those parents? Are they just that stupid that they can't see they are being scammed?

(03-18-2016 04:15 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(03-18-2016 04:05 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(03-18-2016 03:00 PM)VA49er Wrote:  

(03-18-2016 02:42 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(03-18-2016 02:21 PM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  Isn't that for the teachers and administrators to decide?

What are you driving at? Are you calling the teachers liars?

If the percentages of students getting suspended is disproportionately black then that doesn't make them liars. It makes them something else.

Playing the race card I see. Typical. Could it actually be the students fault? Why in the hades is it always someone else's fault?

Of course it could be the students fault. The problem is that if all things are equal, the percentages should be the same across all races. When one race gets suspended above all others, there's a problem.

And of course, the problems are obvious. 1) Black students are relatively more likely to be poor; 2) Black students are more likely to have been raised in single parent households meaning less parental supervision on average; and 3) Black students are more likely to resent authority (meaning they mouth off and get in trouble instead of saying yes sir and get a minor penalty).

So racist. Lol

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(03-18-2016 01:32 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  Charter schools suspended higher percentages of black students and students with disabilities than traditional schools did. The overall difference between suspension rates in charters versus traditional schools isn't huge

The definition of blowing things out of proportion..

Charters have higher test scores mainly because of more involved parents.

(03-18-2016 01:35 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(03-18-2016 01:34 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Kids more likely to have behavioral issues are suspended more from schools which require stricter behavioral issues.

I don't see the problem.

The problem is that more of the students with "behavioral issues" are black.

What if it's because of problems of fatherlessness in the black community?

(03-18-2016 01:43 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(03-18-2016 01:40 PM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  

(03-18-2016 01:35 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(03-18-2016 01:34 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Kids more likely to have behavioral issues are suspended more from schools which require stricter behavioral issues.

I don't see the problem.

The problem is that more of the students with "behavioral issues" are black.

Why do you suppose that black students have more behavioral issues?

They don't, that's the problem.

Proof?

Saint Paul's *public* schools were suspending more Blacks than Whites. It was such a difference that the school system decided to make it harder to suspend kids. The result has been multiple and very public assaults on teachers from kids who feel they can get away with anything.

"black behavior" is not the problem, it's the environment that creates such gaps, like fatherlessness. You don't fix bad behavior by ignoring it.

(03-18-2016 03:04 PM)gsu95 Wrote:  Charter schools are as big a scam as for profit schools.

Saying it does not make it true..

(03-18-2016 04:05 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  Of course it could be the students fault. The problem is that if all things are equal, the percentages should be the same across all races. When one race gets suspended above all others, there's a problem.

That's not how probability or life works fit.. You can't divorce what came before from what happens next..

Kids raised with no father , especially boys, are primed for behavioral issues. So the more that happens in a community the more poor behavior you see.

(03-18-2016 02:44 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(03-18-2016 02:42 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  If the percentages of students getting suspended is disproportionately black then that doesn't make them liars. It makes them something else.

Unruly? Really, what are you trying to imply in this thread? Seem like you're trying to say that blacks aren't as smart.

From the man that cries wolf every day. C'mon Fit just come right out with it, quit beating round the bush.........not only is Donald Trump and anyone that would vote for him a racist, but now - all teachers and administrators affiliated with charter schools are racist as well........nationwide no less!!! Let's just brand another whole category of people with a capital R..............for a 1.2% difference in suspension rates.

Yep - it's all just too obvious...............from the man that sees racist in everything.

Not you Blunder ---Fit.

(03-18-2016 01:43 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  They don't, that's the problem.

My aunt begs to differ.

She taught at an inner city middle school in Memphis for 20+ years and has the scars to prove it. Now she teaches at a mostly white private school. The pay isn't quite as good but her quality of life is improved dramatically.

(03-18-2016 01:32 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  Charter schools suspended higher percentages of black students and students with disabilities than traditional schools did. The overall difference between suspension rates in charters versus traditional schools isn't huge: In the 2011-12 academic year, charters suspended 7.8 percent of all students, compared with 6.7 percent for noncharters. But these gaps increase when you look at who is getting suspended: In charter schools, black students and students with disabilities were suspended at higher percentages in all grades than their peers in traditional schools. In middle and high schools, 12 percent more students with disabilities and 2.5 percent more black students were suspended in charters compared with noncharters.

Link

Couldn't be that they have better non-union teachers with a better curriculum......

What has been really eye opening the last couple of years is just how out of touch many leftists are with reality as it relates to social issues. I see it in Facebook posts from SWPL's who were upper middle class and left Memphis after high school never to return.

These are the kind of people who blame "racism" for white flight to this day. They are completely divorced from the realities of what progressive politics have done to inner city communities.

I would question the idea that Charters have higher test scores. Some of them do well on state tests, others not so good at all. The results are all over that place.

(03-18-2016 05:23 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  

(03-18-2016 04:15 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(03-18-2016 04:05 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(03-18-2016 03:00 PM)VA49er Wrote:  

(03-18-2016 02:42 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  If the percentages of students getting suspended is disproportionately black then that doesn't make them liars. It makes them something else.

Playing the race card I see. Typical. Could it actually be the students fault? Why in the hades is it always someone else's fault?

Of course it could be the students fault. The problem is that if all things are equal, the percentages should be the same across all races. When one race gets suspended above all others, there's a problem.

And of course, the problems are obvious. 1) Black students are relatively more likely to be poor; 2) Black students are more likely to have been raised in single parent households meaning less parental supervision on average; and 3) Black students are more likely to resent authority (meaning they mouth off and get in trouble instead of saying yes sir and get a minor penalty).

So racist. Lol

Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk

1) and 2) are simple facts. Its pretty hard to say its racist for someone to be stating facts (with the implication that in all races poor people and those raised in single family households tend to have more discipline issues in school). Only 3 is an opinion, but I think you could find studies proving that they are more resentful of authority on average. There are lots of studies showing they are more resentful of policemen. I think its pretty obvious from Ferguson and all the Black Lives Matters and the "White Privilege" and "Institutional Racism" movements that they distrust authority more on average.

So your comment is pretty bizarre unless you are just being facetious.