(03-23-2018 12:54 PM)ranfin Wrote:  Not sure I get all the negativity on Pera after one season. Our situation looks pretty similar to Rhodes after one season. Maybe he should be given another season or two?

Rhoades took possibly the least talented squad I have ever seen and produced a product greater than the sum of the parts. Pera took a not so talented squad and produced a not so talented but super shoddy mess. Big difference. Rhoades also had a clear and obvious plan - a focus on hustle and full court press... I am not sure what Pera's strategy is other than out recruit the opposition (Like Failiff) and shoot 3s at an astonishingly horrible clip.

Now half his team is leaving, resulting in an all but guaranteed failure next season. Hence the negativity.

(03-23-2018 05:34 PM)Antarius Wrote:  

(03-23-2018 12:54 PM)ranfin Wrote:  Not sure I get all the negativity on Pera after one season. Our situation looks pretty similar to Rhodes after one season. Maybe he should be given another season or two?

Rhoades took possibly the least talented squad I have ever seen and produced a product greater than the sum of the parts. Pera took a not so talented squad and produced a not so talented but super shoddy mess. Big difference. Rhoades also had a clear and obvious plan - a focus on hustle and full court press... I am not sure what Pera's strategy is other than out recruit the opposition (Like Failiff) and shoot 3s at an astonishingly horrible clip.

Now half his team is leaving, resulting in an all but guaranteed failure next season. Hence the negativity.

In the interest of accuracy, I'm calling BS on your comments.

For all of Rhoades talk about 40 minutes of full court pressure, his teams only pressed in short spurts. Talking a plan and executing it are two different things.

As to "half the team is leaving", 2, maybe 3, players is far from half the team. When the total gets to 6 or 7 like Rhoades last team, I'll accept your comment.

(03-23-2018 05:34 PM)Antarius Wrote:  

(03-23-2018 12:54 PM)ranfin Wrote:  Not sure I get all the negativity on Pera after one season. Our situation looks pretty similar to Rhodes after one season. Maybe he should be given another season or two?

Rhoades took possibly the least talented squad I have ever seen and produced a product greater than the sum of the parts. Pera took a not so talented squad and produced a not so talented but super shoddy mess. Big difference. Rhoades also had a clear and obvious plan - a focus on hustle and full court press... I am not sure what Pera's strategy is other than out recruit the opposition (Like Failiff) and shoot 3s at an astonishingly horrible clip.

Now half his team is leaving, resulting in an all but guaranteed failure next season. Hence the negativity.

Um, how often did you see a full court press in his several years?

Again, look at the time period this staff had to recruit in after Rhoades left. Signing Day had already passed and the staff was tasked with not only finding recruits for the departing players but also for the recruits who asked out of their commitments when Rhoades left. I am not happy either with this mess, but I am willing to give Pera a couple of normal recruiting periods before declaring his tenure a failure.

(03-23-2018 06:24 PM)ranfin Wrote:  

(03-23-2018 05:34 PM)Antarius Wrote:  

(03-23-2018 12:54 PM)ranfin Wrote:  Not sure I get all the negativity on Pera after one season. Our situation looks pretty similar to Rhodes after one season. Maybe he should be given another season or two?

Rhoades took possibly the least talented squad I have ever seen and produced a product greater than the sum of the parts. Pera took a not so talented squad and produced a not so talented but super shoddy mess. Big difference. Rhoades also had a clear and obvious plan - a focus on hustle and full court press... I am not sure what Pera's strategy is other than out recruit the opposition (Like Failiff) and shoot 3s at an astonishingly horrible clip.

Now half his team is leaving, resulting in an all but guaranteed failure next season. Hence the negativity.

Um, how often did you see a full court press in his several years?

I don’t think the VCU fans were real thrilled with this year either. If you watched any of their games you saw the same lack of pressure from his team.

(03-23-2018 06:05 PM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  

(03-23-2018 05:34 PM)Antarius Wrote:  

(03-23-2018 12:54 PM)ranfin Wrote:  Not sure I get all the negativity on Pera after one season. Our situation looks pretty similar to Rhodes after one season. Maybe he should be given another season or two?

Rhoades took possibly the least talented squad I have ever seen and produced a product greater than the sum of the parts. Pera took a not so talented squad and produced a not so talented but super shoddy mess. Big difference. Rhoades also had a clear and obvious plan - a focus on hustle and full court press... I am not sure what Pera's strategy is other than out recruit the opposition (Like Failiff) and shoot 3s at an astonishingly horrible clip.

Now half his team is leaving, resulting in an all but guaranteed failure next season. Hence the negativity.

In the interest of accuracy, I'm calling BS on your comments.

For all of Rhoades talk about 40 minutes of full court pressure, his teams only pressed in short spurts. Talking a plan and executing it are two different things.

As to "half the team is leaving", 2, maybe 3, players is far from half the team. When the total gets to 6 or 7 like Rhoades last team, I'll accept your comment.

Of course we didn't run a 40 minute press. Short handed that's how you lose games. It would be like sprinting at the get go of a 1800m. But we ran press when we needed to and it was responsible for a few wins in year 1.

The 6-7 losses you refer to was post Rhoades.. so it isn't what I was referring to. Much like the grad transfers in football this year that is part of a regime change.

Pera has lost half his starters. And more are possibly on the way. That didn't happen when Rhoades was coach.

All I'm saying is I saw a future in Rhoades year 1. Something we could build on. I didn't see that this year. With or without the transfers.

Throw in the Transfers.. and that feeling is all but guaranteed.

What do you see that says this team and staff can make Rice better?

(03-23-2018 11:07 PM)Antarius Wrote:  

(03-23-2018 06:05 PM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  

(03-23-2018 05:34 PM)Antarius Wrote:  

(03-23-2018 12:54 PM)ranfin Wrote:  Not sure I get all the negativity on Pera after one season. Our situation looks pretty similar to Rhodes after one season. Maybe he should be given another season or two?

Rhoades took possibly the least talented squad I have ever seen and produced a product greater than the sum of the parts. Pera took a not so talented squad and produced a not so talented but super shoddy mess. Big difference. Rhoades also had a clear and obvious plan - a focus on hustle and full court press... I am not sure what Pera's strategy is other than out recruit the opposition (Like Failiff) and shoot 3s at an astonishingly horrible clip.

Now half his team is leaving, resulting in an all but guaranteed failure next season. Hence the negativity.

In the interest of accuracy, I'm calling BS on your comments.

For all of Rhoades talk about 40 minutes of full court pressure, his teams only pressed in short spurts. Talking a plan and executing it are two different things.

As to "half the team is leaving", 2, maybe 3, players is far from half the team. When the total gets to 6 or 7 like Rhoades last team, I'll accept your comment.

Of course we didn't run a 40 minute press. Short handed that's how you lose games. It would be like sprinting at the get go of a 1800m. But we ran press when we needed to and it was responsible for a few wins in year 1.

The 6-7 losses you refer to was post Rhoades.. so it isn't what I was referring to. Much like the grad transfers in football this year that is part of a regime change.

Pera has lost half his starters. And more are possibly on the way. That didn't happen when Rhoades was coach.

Sorry. The 6-7 losses were from Rhoades 16-17 team, not Pera's 17-18 team. Semantics maybe, but I don't put those losses on the new coach.

Half his starters? Come on Ant. I know you are better at math than that. So far only one regular starter has announced he's leaving. No offense to Miles, but he only started a 5 games mid-season. And if Austin leaves, he was barely playing at year's end and only started 4 games at the beginning of the season.

Stop exaggerating. The situation is bad enough without the errant claims. Did you even attend a game this year?

(03-23-2018 11:27 PM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  

(03-23-2018 11:07 PM)Antarius Wrote:  

(03-23-2018 06:05 PM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  

(03-23-2018 05:34 PM)Antarius Wrote:  

(03-23-2018 12:54 PM)ranfin Wrote:  Not sure I get all the negativity on Pera after one season. Our situation looks pretty similar to Rhodes after one season. Maybe he should be given another season or two?

Rhoades took possibly the least talented squad I have ever seen and produced a product greater than the sum of the parts. Pera took a not so talented squad and produced a not so talented but super shoddy mess. Big difference. Rhoades also had a clear and obvious plan - a focus on hustle and full court press... I am not sure what Pera's strategy is other than out recruit the opposition (Like Failiff) and shoot 3s at an astonishingly horrible clip.

Now half his team is leaving, resulting in an all but guaranteed failure next season. Hence the negativity.

In the interest of accuracy, I'm calling BS on your comments.

For all of Rhoades talk about 40 minutes of full court pressure, his teams only pressed in short spurts. Talking a plan and executing it are two different things.

As to "half the team is leaving", 2, maybe 3, players is far from half the team. When the total gets to 6 or 7 like Rhoades last team, I'll accept your comment.

Of course we didn't run a 40 minute press. Short handed that's how you lose games. It would be like sprinting at the get go of a 1800m. But we ran press when we needed to and it was responsible for a few wins in year 1.

The 6-7 losses you refer to was post Rhoades.. so it isn't what I was referring to. Much like the grad transfers in football this year that is part of a regime change.

Pera has lost half his starters. And more are possibly on the way. That didn't happen when Rhoades was coach.

Sorry. The 6-7 losses were from Rhoades 16-17 team, not Pera's 17-18 team. Semantics maybe, but I don't put those losses on the new coach.

Half his starters? Come on Ant. I know you are better at math than that. So far only one regular starter has announced he's leaving. No offense to Miles, but he only started a 5 games mid-season. And if Austin leaves, he was barely playing at year's end and only started 4 games at the beginning of the season.

Stop exaggerating. The situation is bad enough without the errant claims. Did you even attend a game this year?

It's on neither. Same way as I'm not chalking the football transfers to Bailiff or Bloomgren. You can count it for Rhoades if you want, but it doesn't materially affect the year 1 comparison. Both started with relatively bare cupboards.

There's at least 3 transfers that we've heard about. And possibly more to come. You are correct that one full time starter is leaving so far.. and 2 part time starters as well.

My broader point is I saw nothing this year that indicates next year will be any better with or without the transfers. And to me, that's a massive problem.. because I had the exact same feeling after watching year 1 of Bailiff and Braun and a very different feeling on Langley and Rhoades.

And the transfer issue isn't an exaggeration. Some of these guys were likely to be significant contributors. And we didn't lose them during Rhoades tenure like this. Rhoades each year seemed like it would be better than the last. Do you feel that now?

How is it exaggerating to say we are in deep **** and seemingly have no plan to fix it?

(03-23-2018 11:42 PM)Antarius Wrote:  

(03-23-2018 11:27 PM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  

(03-23-2018 11:07 PM)Antarius Wrote:  

(03-23-2018 06:05 PM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  

(03-23-2018 05:34 PM)Antarius Wrote:  Rhoades took possibly the least talented squad I have ever seen and produced a product greater than the sum of the parts. Pera took a not so talented squad and produced a not so talented but super shoddy mess. Big difference. Rhoades also had a clear and obvious plan - a focus on hustle and full court press... I am not sure what Pera's strategy is other than out recruit the opposition (Like Failiff) and shoot 3s at an astonishingly horrible clip.

Now half his team is leaving, resulting in an all but guaranteed failure next season. Hence the negativity.

In the interest of accuracy, I'm calling BS on your comments.

For all of Rhoades talk about 40 minutes of full court pressure, his teams only pressed in short spurts. Talking a plan and executing it are two different things.

As to "half the team is leaving", 2, maybe 3, players is far from half the team. When the total gets to 6 or 7 like Rhoades last team, I'll accept your comment.

Of course we didn't run a 40 minute press. Short handed that's how you lose games. It would be like sprinting at the get go of a 1800m. But we ran press when we needed to and it was responsible for a few wins in year 1.

The 6-7 losses you refer to was post Rhoades.. so it isn't what I was referring to. Much like the grad transfers in football this year that is part of a regime change.

Pera has lost half his starters. And more are possibly on the way. That didn't happen when Rhoades was coach.

Sorry. The 6-7 losses were from Rhoades 16-17 team, not Pera's 17-18 team. Semantics maybe, but I don't put those losses on the new coach.

Half his starters? Come on Ant. I know you are better at math than that. So far only one regular starter has announced he's leaving. No offense to Miles, but he only started a 5 games mid-season. And if Austin leaves, he was barely playing at year's end and only started 4 games at the beginning of the season.

Stop exaggerating. The situation is bad enough without the errant claims. Did you even attend a game this year?

It's on neither. Same way as I'm not chalking the football transfers to Bailiff or Bloomgren. You can count it for Rhoades if you want, but it doesn't materially affect the year 1 comparison. Both started with relatively bare cupboards.

There's at least 3 transfers that we've heard about. And possibly more to come. You are correct that one full time starter is leaving so far.. and 2 part time starters as well.

My broader point is I saw nothing this year that indicates next year will be any better with or without the transfers. And to me, that's a massive problem.. because I had the exact same feeling after watching year 1 of Bailiff and Braun and a very different feeling on Langley and Rhoades.

And the transfer issue isn't an exaggeration. Some of these guys were likely to be significant contributors. And we didn't lose them during Rhoades tenure like this. Rhoades each year seemed like it would be better than the last. Do you feel that now?

How is it exaggerating to say we are in deep **** and seemingly have no plan to fix it?

I was not left with any warm fuzzies after year one. I just think it’s way too early to be drawing conclusions. Especially given the situation Pera inherited. And, Rhodes never made significant use of the press during his tenure. If featuring the press was his plan, he did not execute his plan.

Early on, it looked like Rhoades was trying to implement a full-court press, but we saw full-court pressure less and less the season wore on. He also talked about building a system - "havoc" and full-court defense - that he could plug recruits into as they arrive, but no such system ever emerged and by the end of his tenure his defense was almost entirely a conventional zone. That could have been attributed to not having all the pieces in place yet, except it appears that his VCU playbook isn't all that imaginative either.

Pera has not yet inspired my full confidence. There's evidence he knows how to develop talent on a player-by-player basis.

The bigger issue on hand is time. Every time we rinse and repeat, we have less time till game over. There might be one last shot with the MWC expansion and Big XII shakeup. After that, it's over and will be cemented in a defacto little league of Division 1. We are ostensibly there already but the cement hasn't set yet. There's still that teeny tiny chance

2017 was a wasted year. Not just because we went 7-24.. but because we are resetting again for 2018.

Were fuel starved.. both engines flaming out. The actions now determine whether we can make a desperate emergency landing or crash and kaboom. Why we are fuel starved - that's an interesting discussion, but for the pilots in charge it doesn't matter whether there was a leak, they loaded too little or someone started a fuel dump. They need to find a way to glide in with what they have.

I realize that the broader issue isn't on Pera and Bloomgren and co. But they will end up needing to compensate for years of crap decision making and laissez faire personnel decisions. Point forward we need a turnaround CEO, not standard run and maintain leadership

(03-24-2018 09:04 AM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  Early on, it looked like Rhoades was trying to implement a full-court press, but we saw full-court pressure less and less the season wore on. He also talked about building a system - "havoc" and full-court defense - that he could plug recruits into as they arrive, but no such system ever emerged and by the end of his tenure his defense was almost entirely a conventional zone. That could have been attributed to not having all the pieces in place yet, except it appears that his VCU playbook isn't all that imaginative either.

Pera has not yet inspired my full confidence. There's evidence he knows how to develop talent on a player-by-player basis.

We will see how good Rhoades is with VCU. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to anoint him as the world's best coach or anything. I think he did what I expected him to do at Rice.

He was Stage I of the Saturn V rocket. We knew he'd fire for a while then jettison and be gone. The responsibility is on Rice to find a Stage II and III to pick up and keep moving.

The Stage I was never going to take us all the way to the moon.

Is Pera recruiting Texas yet? The worst hire Dr K has done.

Guy I'd keep an eye on is 6-8 Pacific grad transfer Jack Williams. California kid who we offered out of HS. Averaged 8.5 ppg and 5.9 rpg this year. Shot a really poor 39% from the field but also shot 34% from 3. Shot a remarkable 9% (!!!!) on shots around the rim. Good spot-up shooter, good pick and pop guy.

From his film, he looks like an in-betweener: a guy who kind of wants to play like a wing but doesn't really have the athleticism to beat guys. Really quirky shot but has a quick release.

If we could get the WF 6th man Keyshawn Woods he’s immediately contribute I’d imagine. 11.9ppg 2.5 rpg 1.9apg. Academic all ACC.

I doubt we could get him for basketball reasons only but someone who values academics might want a Rice graduate degree and be tempted by a starting spot.

Another 6’3 guard. Joseph Chartouny. Graduated in 3 years from Fordham averaging more than 10ppg in college.

Also it’s been mentioned here before Pera wants to target Ivy League kids. I say we start with some who can play immediately. Ivy League doesn’t allow redshirts so these guys are transferring to play a year 4.

Wil Bathurst, cornell. 6’3 180. Averaged 6.4ppg 4.1rpg a year ago with 9 starts
Jason Massey, Brown. 6’4 220. Started 18 games a year ago but scored sparingly.
Kyle Castlin, Columbia. 6’4 190. 9.2 ppg in 11 games of 2017 before getting hurt.
Evan Boudreaux, Dartmouth. 6’8 220. 9.5rpg (led Ivy League) 17.5 ppg (2nd) last year.

Non Ivy that can play immediately.
Larry Austin Jr. Vandy. 6’2 182. 23 games. 2.5 ppg in 11 min.

I say we should go for at least one of these guys because we need bodies. Plus take the best non-grad transfer we can find like Parrish last year.

(03-27-2018 01:57 PM)cr11owl Wrote:  If we could get the WF 6th man Keyshawn Woods he’s immediately contribute I’d imagine. 11.9ppg 2.5 rpg 1.9apg. Academic all ACC.

I doubt we could get him for basketball reasons only but someone who values academics might want a Rice graduate degree and be tempted by a starting spot.

Another 6’3 guard. Joseph Chartouny. Graduated in 3 years from Fordham averaging more than 10ppg in college.

I agree both would be great gets. But Woods said he's considering turning pro, so I would assume he's only considering power conferences. And Chartouny said the entire point of his grad year is to prove to scouts he can play against the best in the country, so he's probably not gonna drop down to Rice's level.

(03-27-2018 02:06 PM)elw4796 Wrote:  

(03-27-2018 01:57 PM)cr11owl Wrote:  If we could get the WF 6th man Keyshawn Woods he’s immediately contribute I’d imagine. 11.9ppg 2.5 rpg 1.9apg. Academic all ACC.

I doubt we could get him for basketball reasons only but someone who values academics might want a Rice graduate degree and be tempted by a starting spot.

Another 6’3 guard. Joseph Chartouny. Graduated in 3 years from Fordham averaging more than 10ppg in college.

I agree both would be great gets. But Woods said he's considering turning pro, so I would assume he's only considering power conferences. And Chartouny said the entire point of his grad year is to prove to scouts he can play against the best in the country, so he's probably not gonna drop down to Rice's level.

Ah I see, ok. I just went through the list and found all of the higher academic profile kids that could play immediately. Most grad transfers are either leaving because they weren’t getting playing time or because they want to step up a level. I doubt we want or will get either of those types. Our best option I figure would be targeting decent players who actually want a graduate degree from a top school.

(03-27-2018 02:28 PM)cr11owl Wrote:  

(03-27-2018 02:06 PM)elw4796 Wrote:  

(03-27-2018 01:57 PM)cr11owl Wrote:  If we could get the WF 6th man Keyshawn Woods he’s immediately contribute I’d imagine. 11.9ppg 2.5 rpg 1.9apg. Academic all ACC.

I doubt we could get him for basketball reasons only but someone who values academics might want a Rice graduate degree and be tempted by a starting spot.

Another 6’3 guard. Joseph Chartouny. Graduated in 3 years from Fordham averaging more than 10ppg in college.

I agree both would be great gets. But Woods said he's considering turning pro, so I would assume he's only considering power conferences. And Chartouny said the entire point of his grad year is to prove to scouts he can play against the best in the country, so he's probably not gonna drop down to Rice's level.

Ah I see, ok. I just went through the list and found all of the higher academic profile kids that could play immediately. Most grad transfers are either leaving because they weren’t getting playing time or because they want to step up a level. I doubt we want or will get either of those types. Our best option I figure would be targeting decent players who actually want a graduate degree from a top school.

Yeah I've been adding a bunch of transfer names over the past few pages of this thread but they kinda get lost in the shuffle. I'll update it here:

F Donovan Mitchell (Wake Forest...would have to sit)
G JoJo Anderson (N. Colorado...would have to sit)
G Larry Austin Jr. (Vandy...immediately eligible)
G Payton Willis (Vandy...would have to sit)
F Andy Van Vliet (Wisconsin...would have to sit)
G Austin Nehls (Central Connecticut...immediately eligible)
G Cheddi Mosely (BU...immediately eligible)
F Brady Ellingson (Iowa...immediately eligible)
F Nolan Taylor (Pepperdine...would have to sit)
G Kyle Castlin (Columbia...immediately eligible)
F Jack Williams (Pacific...immediately eligible)

(03-27-2018 02:39 PM)elw4796 Wrote:  

(03-27-2018 02:28 PM)cr11owl Wrote:  

(03-27-2018 02:06 PM)elw4796 Wrote:  

(03-27-2018 01:57 PM)cr11owl Wrote:  If we could get the WF 6th man Keyshawn Woods he’s immediately contribute I’d imagine. 11.9ppg 2.5 rpg 1.9apg. Academic all ACC.

I doubt we could get him for basketball reasons only but someone who values academics might want a Rice graduate degree and be tempted by a starting spot.

Another 6’3 guard. Joseph Chartouny. Graduated in 3 years from Fordham averaging more than 10ppg in college.

I agree both would be great gets. But Woods said he's considering turning pro, so I would assume he's only considering power conferences. And Chartouny said the entire point of his grad year is to prove to scouts he can play against the best in the country, so he's probably not gonna drop down to Rice's level.

Ah I see, ok. I just went through the list and found all of the higher academic profile kids that could play immediately. Most grad transfers are either leaving because they weren’t getting playing time or because they want to step up a level. I doubt we want or will get either of those types. Our best option I figure would be targeting decent players who actually want a graduate degree from a top school.

Yeah I've been adding a bunch of transfer names over the past few pages of this thread but they kinda get lost in the shuffle. I'll update it here:

F Donovan Mitchell (Wake Forest...would have to sit)
G JoJo Anderson (N. Colorado...would have to sit)
G Larry Austin Jr. (Vandy...immediately eligible)
G Payton Willis (Vandy...would have to sit)
F Andy Van Vliet (Wisconsin...would have to sit)
G Austin Nehls (Central Connecticut...immediately eligible)
G Cheddi Mosely (BU...immediately eligible)
F Brady Ellingson (Iowa...immediately eligible)
F Nolan Taylor (Pepperdine...would have to sit)
G Kyle Castlin (Columbia...immediately eligible)
F Jack Williams (Pacific...immediately eligible)

Thanks.