(01-17-2018 01:11 PM)Wheatshock Wrote:  Seems like the main argument is that 'the MVC wasn't as tough as the AAC so WSU's road record is inflated by playing weak competition'. I took out the fluff and pulled WSU's road record only against the top 150 in Kenpom over the last 5 years (including this year) and also broke it down by top 100 and top 50.

Top 150 21-6
Top 100 12-5
Top 50 2-4

Conclusion: winning percentage was inversely proportionally to the quality of the opponent which is no surprise but overall still very nice results. I don't expect WSU's road winning percentage to stay as high as it was due to the increase in competition but I also don't think it will fall off a cliff.

Great info thanks!

(01-17-2018 01:11 PM)Wheatshock Wrote:  Seems like the main argument is that 'the MVC wasn't as tough as the AAC so WSU's road record is inflated by playing weak competition'. I took out the fluff and pulled WSU's road record only against the top 150 in Kenpom over the last 5 years (including this year) and also broke it down by top 100 and top 50.

Top 150 21-6
Top 100 12-5
Top 50 2-4

Conclusion: winning percentage was inversely proportionally to the quality of the opponent which is no surprise but overall still very nice results. I don't expect WSU's road winning percentage to stay as high as it was due to the increase in competition but I also don't think it will fall off a cliff.

I don't think WSU will lose at SMU or Houston, but yes, who knows.

The Hartford Courant reported the WSU road record was 43-6 prior to the WSU-UConn game since 2013-14. That is accurate

WSU's road record now is 45-6 since the beinning of the 2013-14 season.

(01-17-2018 01:15 PM)Wheatshock Wrote:  

(01-17-2018 01:01 PM)TU4ever Wrote:  

(01-17-2018 12:48 PM)Wheatshock Wrote:  

(01-17-2018 12:16 PM)TU4ever Wrote:  

(01-17-2018 08:51 AM)pvtlamb Wrote:  Of course most of those are MVC games, but so what? Off the top of my head, those road victories also include Davidson, VCU, OU, Tulsa, Alabama, Colorado State, Detroit, Air Force, St. Louis 2x. That does not include any exempt tournament wins.

WSU is a great road team, one of the best in the country. If it was so easy someone else in the AAC would be at least close to WSU's record.

Your not making your case very well OU might be the only team you listed who would be top 50 but I would have to check what year that road win was. St. Louis hasn't been good in a while and vcu has been good/okay, Davidson was probably solid.

Well if 40+ of the games were against plus 150 MVC teams I'm sure most of this league would have wsu's record or better. I would say wsu is a unknown for the road in the AAC. I see| four maybe five away losses and a sweep at home.

The VCU road win was the year after their final four, and 1 of the St Louis wins was the last good year they made the NCAA's. The OU win is a tough one to judge, they were top 50 at the time and looking pretty good but lost their best player and senior leader for the season in the next game and hit the skids for a while.

FWIW I mostly agree with you that WSU on the road in the AAC is somewhat of an unknown as a fair bit of the competition is tougher. However road games are hard at any level and I still like our chances in most games and think we'll end up with a very good record.

I believe the most important part of consistently winning on the road is being mentally tough and experienced. There are lots of talented teams that really struggle on the road while others excel and the difference between the two seems to come down to experience and mentality. WSU has both of those qualities as does Cincy.

100%^^^

We will see. I think the real return for wsu joining the conference will be next year. A team who got pushed in conference, had tougher road games, and a good NCAA run will be fire tested. They will be around as good next as they are this year just for the experience.

Next years team will be a different animal. We have 6 seniors that all get regular minutes and stand a good chance that one underclassman will go pro. Next years team should be at least as talented (possibly more talented) but will definitely have some growing pains.

That's where I think this will help you the most even sitting on the bench the other players are seeing the big difference between MVC and top conferences, getting use to the new venues, the tournament will show them what it takes to win at the very top. All that should help ease some growing pains.

(01-17-2018 01:31 PM)payday Wrote:  

(01-17-2018 01:11 PM)Wheatshock Wrote:  Seems like the main argument is that 'the MVC wasn't as tough as the AAC so WSU's road record is inflated by playing weak competition'. I took out the fluff and pulled WSU's road record only against the top 150 in Kenpom over the last 5 years (including this year) and also broke it down by top 100 and top 50.

Top 150 21-6
Top 100 12-5
Top 50 2-4

Conclusion: winning percentage was inversely proportionally to the quality of the opponent which is no surprise but overall still very nice results. I don't expect WSU's road winning percentage to stay as high as it was due to the increase in competition but I also don't think it will fall off a cliff.

Now go find a Top 100-150 team Cincy lost to on the road over that same time frame. Sure won’t be 6. I doubt you’ll find any.

(01-17-2018 01:33 PM)payday Wrote:  

(01-17-2018 01:31 PM)payday Wrote:  

(01-17-2018 01:11 PM)Wheatshock Wrote:  Seems like the main argument is that 'the MVC wasn't as tough as the AAC so WSU's road record is inflated by playing weak competition'. I took out the fluff and pulled WSU's road record only against the top 150 in Kenpom over the last 5 years (including this year) and also broke it down by top 100 and top 50.

Top 150 21-6
Top 100 12-5
Top 50 2-4

Conclusion: winning percentage was inversely proportionally to the quality of the opponent which is no surprise but overall still very nice results. I don't expect WSU's road winning percentage to stay as high as it was due to the increase in competition but I also don't think it will fall off a cliff.

Now go find a Top 100-150 team Cincy lost to on the road over that same time frame. Sure won’t be 6. I doubt you’ll find any.

The 21-6 is for all top 150 games, as in 1-150 which makes the record against 100-150 7-1.

Now to answer your challenge. You lost on 12/13/14 @ #121 Nebraska.

(01-17-2018 01:33 PM)payday Wrote:  

(01-17-2018 01:31 PM)payday Wrote:  

(01-17-2018 01:11 PM)Wheatshock Wrote:  Seems like the main argument is that 'the MVC wasn't as tough as the AAC so WSU's road record is inflated by playing weak competition'. I took out the fluff and pulled WSU's road record only against the top 150 in Kenpom over the last 5 years (including this year) and also broke it down by top 100 and top 50.

Top 150 21-6
Top 100 12-5
Top 50 2-4

Conclusion: winning percentage was inversely proportionally to the quality of the opponent which is no surprise but overall still very nice results. I don't expect WSU's road winning percentage to stay as high as it was due to the increase in competition but I also don't think it will fall off a cliff.

Now go find a Top 100-150 team Cincy lost to on the road over that same time frame. Sure won’t be 6. I doubt you’ll find any.

WSU lost 1 to a 100-150 team .. not 6. Those are cumulative.

As far as not finding any

Cincy Road losses to 100-150 in KP
2017 - 0
2016 - 0
2015 - 2 (121KP Nebraska, 224KP ECU)
2014 - 0
2013 - 0

Cincy's road record is 29-20 over the same time frame.

WSU beat a bunch of MVC teams on the road...


congrats

Impressive

I just did my own check based on RPI. UC Lost 4 Top 100-150 road games going all the way back to 2009-2010. That’s over 9 seasons.

Houston has no chance against WSU @home? K.

(01-17-2018 01:47 PM)payday Wrote:  I just did my own check based on RPI. UC Lost 4 Top 100-150 road games going all the way back to 2009-2010. That’s over 9 seasons.

and from 2009-2012 we also were on the road in the Big East...the ‘SEC of hoops’ at that time.

(01-17-2018 01:47 PM)payday Wrote:  I just did my own check based on RPI. UC Lost 4 Top 100-150 road games going all the way back to 2009-2010. That’s over 9 seasons.

Conversely, over that same time Cincy won 13 Top 50 true road games. I know WSU can’t touch that.

Looked at KenPom to pull the same data that Wheat shock pulled for WSU but for Cincy

Cincy Road Record since 2013 vs
Top 150 = 16-22 (42%)
Top 100 = 11-21 (34%)
Top 50 = 8-12 (40%)

Obviously more opportunities in the top 100 range. Percentages favor WSU though in 50-150 and pretty close (40% vs 33%) in the Top 50

(01-17-2018 01:56 PM)payday Wrote:  

(01-17-2018 01:47 PM)payday Wrote:  I just did my own check based on RPI. UC Lost 4 Top 100-150 road games going all the way back to 2009-2010. That’s over 9 seasons.

Conversely, over that same time Cincy won 13 Top 50 true road games. I know WSU can’t touch that.

I wouldn't expect WSU to be able to win a sheer number for number battle on wins vs Top 50. You have to look at percentage. Cincy also probably has 10x the number of attempts.

Because I was bored here is the WSU road record since 2012(start of our NCAA tournament run) divided by the RPI groups being used this year(these are final RPI instead of selection RPI, I didn't feel like digging into the NCAA teamsheets).

1-75: 9-7
76-135: 19-3
136-240: 25-2
240+: 10-0

Above .500 in Group 1 road games is very good. The group 2 number is stupid.

You can more than double those top 50s if you count neutral court wins

(01-17-2018 01:46 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  WSU beat a bunch of MVC teams on the road...


congrats

Impressive

Congrats on just jumping in without reading the thread and making an uninformed post.

(01-17-2018 01:59 PM)ShockCrazy Wrote:  Because I was bored here is the WSU road record since 2012(start of our NCAA tournament run) divided by the RPI groups being used this year(these are final RPI instead of selection RPI, I didn't feel like digging into the NCAA teamsheets).

1-75: 9-7
76-135: 19-3
136-240: 25-2
240+: 10-0

Above .500 in Group 1 road games is very good. The group 2 number is stupid.

1-75? I’m only including Top 50! And still came up with 13! lol

(01-17-2018 02:00 PM)Wheatshock Wrote:  

(01-17-2018 01:46 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  WSU beat a bunch of MVC teams on the road...


congrats

Impressive

Congrats on just jumping in without reading the thread and making an uninformed post.

Yeah that’s how I roll