That's probably what should have happened. It'd be a better situation if that part of Idaho was in Washington.

(01-19-2018 02:39 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(01-18-2018 04:59 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  

(01-18-2018 02:18 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(01-18-2018 02:13 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  I disagree that most G5 schools shouldn't be FBS. FBS definitely costs more, but it pays more, too. The CFP gives a ton more to G5 schools than it does for FCS schools. FCS playoffs are a much bigger cost to the schools than are low tier bowl games. Dropping down for most schools, including Idaho, would result in dramatic drop in both donations and season ticket sales.

Rice actually did a study this past decade about whether to maintain status quo, drop down to FCS, or drop football altogether. Dropping football and dropping down both would have caused a net loss in revenue, so Rice maintained status quo.

Now, there are some schools whose decisions to move up can be questioned. But not all move-ups are equal. Boise State's move up worked well. Same for UCF, USF, UConn, and some others like App State. They've been able to get good attendance, donations, attractive home opponents, and wins in the field. Just because those programs have little prospect of bathing in P5 $10's of millions does not mean they should not be FBS. It's a case by case issue.

App St. remains to be seen. Louisiana-Monroe started out with a splash. But now they are one of the prime candidates for a move-down even though they occasionally have success on the field.

App is off to as good a start as any team that has ever moved up. The first season in the Sun Belt, App went 7-5. They did not go to a bowl game since it was a transition year. Since, App has gone 21-3 in the Sun Belt and 30-9 overall, with two SBC titles and three bowl wins. La. Monroe has not done anything close to that. No one has ever won three straight bowl games in their first three years of eligibility. Nothing indicates doom and gloom in the future for Appalachian.

Ever heard of Marshall? Randy Moss? Chad Pennington? Sorry, App St. doesn't hold a candle to what they did out of the gate.

As for LaMo, they beat SEC teams in each of their first two years. They also later had a win over Alabama & Nick Saban (while FBS, not while FCS).

You are really, really defensive. I didn't say things indicated doom and gloom. I just said the jury is still out. Schools sometimes do quite well at first because of their FCS success and FBS transfers. That doesn't necessarily continue. 3 years doesn't tell you much.

Calling App State a prime candidate to move down is doom and gloom. Plenty of schools are way worse off due to a lack of funds, attendance (i.e., support), and tradition of winning.

I never said App was as good as though Marshall teams. I said their move up is off to as good a start, meaning the win/loss record. I'm not dumb. I remember how good those Marshall teams were. But App has kept it going for three years with three bowl wins. That's unprecedented. I realize there is context, but that doesn't mean App shouldn't celebrate the success. Sure, App needs to knock off a good P5 opponent (though, except for Wake Forest, those P5 teams have been extremely good opponents, including 2 of the past three national runner-up). App also is not built on transfers. You're thinking of Arkansas State and other G5 programs.

I don't see how the jury is still out. Wake Forest, Miami, UNC, and ECU are all making trips to Boone. That alone is a huge success, and there are lots of G5 programs who would LOVE to have that.

(01-19-2018 05:29 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  That's probably what should have happened. It'd be a better situation if that part of Idaho was in Washington.

You can blame politicians from the early 1860s: When Idaho Was Part of Washington

(01-19-2018 04:05 PM)panama Wrote:  

(01-19-2018 03:42 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  

(01-19-2018 03:00 PM)jacksfan29 Wrote:  

(01-18-2018 10:57 PM)panama Wrote:  

(01-18-2018 08:35 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  Well then they should have moved it or created a UI branch in Boise.

Idaho's issue is not location. It's thinking that a basketball arena/plane hangar would suffice for Division I football. They could be Wyoming. But their administration has never had the appetite to invest and clearly this regime is tasked with difinishing the program. As has been said already they would better off dropping football.

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No, they couldn't be Wyoming. Wyoming is unique, they are a small state but, unlike other small states (Idaho, MT, ND, SD) Wyoming has ONE 4 year University. All the money from the state, plus all donor money, alumni money, oil money, etc. etc. etc. goes to one source, the University of Wyoming. There is no Wyoming State or Cheyenne State or any other school. They... are... one!!!

Wyoming also is close to Denver and some of their conference rivals, who would prefer not to leave them. But Idaho still could have done better than it has.

If Idaho had done what they should have investment wise they would fit in nicely in the MWC.

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But they didn't. They tried to do it on the cheap when they moved up in 1996, just like they did in the PCC in the 50s. They had a stronger football program than Boise in 1996.

(01-19-2018 05:32 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  

(01-19-2018 02:39 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(01-18-2018 04:59 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  

(01-18-2018 02:18 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(01-18-2018 02:13 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  I disagree that most G5 schools shouldn't be FBS. FBS definitely costs more, but it pays more, too. The CFP gives a ton more to G5 schools than it does for FCS schools. FCS playoffs are a much bigger cost to the schools than are low tier bowl games. Dropping down for most schools, including Idaho, would result in dramatic drop in both donations and season ticket sales.

Rice actually did a study this past decade about whether to maintain status quo, drop down to FCS, or drop football altogether. Dropping football and dropping down both would have caused a net loss in revenue, so Rice maintained status quo.

Now, there are some schools whose decisions to move up can be questioned. But not all move-ups are equal. Boise State's move up worked well. Same for UCF, USF, UConn, and some others like App State. They've been able to get good attendance, donations, attractive home opponents, and wins in the field. Just because those programs have little prospect of bathing in P5 $10's of millions does not mean they should not be FBS. It's a case by case issue.

App St. remains to be seen. Louisiana-Monroe started out with a splash. But now they are one of the prime candidates for a move-down even though they occasionally have success on the field.

App is off to as good a start as any team that has ever moved up. The first season in the Sun Belt, App went 7-5. They did not go to a bowl game since it was a transition year. Since, App has gone 21-3 in the Sun Belt and 30-9 overall, with two SBC titles and three bowl wins. La. Monroe has not done anything close to that. No one has ever won three straight bowl games in their first three years of eligibility. Nothing indicates doom and gloom in the future for Appalachian.

Ever heard of Marshall? Randy Moss? Chad Pennington? Sorry, App St. doesn't hold a candle to what they did out of the gate.

As for LaMo, they beat SEC teams in each of their first two years. They also later had a win over Alabama & Nick Saban (while FBS, not while FCS).

You are really, really defensive. I didn't say things indicated doom and gloom. I just said the jury is still out. Schools sometimes do quite well at first because of their FCS success and FBS transfers. That doesn't necessarily continue. 3 years doesn't tell you much.

Calling App State a prime candidate to move down is doom and gloom. Plenty of schools are way worse off due to a lack of funds, attendance (i.e., support), and tradition of winning.

I never said App was as good as though Marshall teams. I said their move up is off to as good a start, meaning the win/loss record. I'm not dumb. I remember how good those Marshall teams were. But App has kept it going for three years with three bowl wins. That's unprecedented. I realize there is context, but that doesn't mean App shouldn't celebrate the success. Sure, App needs to knock off a good P5 opponent (though, except for Wake Forest, those P5 teams have been extremely good opponents, including 2 of the past three national runner-up). App also is not built on transfers. You're thinking of Arkansas State and other G5 programs.

I don't see how the jury is still out. Wake Forest, Miami, UNC, and ECU are all making trips to Boone. That alone is a huge success, and there are lots of G5 programs who would LOVE to have that.

You have a short memory. I bolded your comment where you did say App ST. did as good or better than anyone else.

The jury is still out until they have fully transitioned and had an inevitable down spell. Then we'll see if the fan support remains.

Some history:
1. Boise was given the choice between the land grant university, which became UI, or a federal prison. Boise chose the prison.
2. The eastern boundary of Idaho was originally intended to follow the great divide, but businessmen in what became Montana, bribed officials to change the boundaries.
3. UI has had terrible leadership in place for well over 50 years, even though the university had full support of the legislators, agriculture industry, businesses, and state board of education, until Bob Kustra came to power at Boise State in 2003.

(01-18-2018 07:13 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  

(01-18-2018 06:54 PM)Love and Honor Wrote:  Idaho fans got hosed twenty years ago when their admin (and state from what I've seen) decided to not seriously invest in the program so it could compete at a high level and not get into this mess. Boise may have always had the larger market, but Idaho had the academics, endowment, and football history; it's easy to forget that from 1985 through 1995 they only missed the DI-AA playoffs and lost to the Broncos once each. Had they capitalized on their success to build a new stadium or expand their dome instead of half-assing their move up, the Vandals may be playing in the Mountain West today. I feel for their fans.

I'm not quite sure why a state the size of Idaho has three DI teams. They probably could've maintained Boise and Idaho athletics at a decent level in FBS if they kept Idaho State as a four-year UI branch with less funding and DII athletics.

What's wrong with the status quo? They're each in different parts of the state. The mistake was trying to found a college in UI's part of the state near Coeur d'Alene and Lewiston instead of in or near Boise. Had it been founded in Boise instead, they'd probably be in the Pac today.

That move was made in the 19th century, Boise got the capital and N Idaho got the school. The move to FCS was making the best of a bad situation.

Everyone in Idaho knows Boise is not academically near Idaho or ISU for that matter, but are using their FBS status to bring the school up.


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(01-19-2018 03:08 PM)jacksfan29 Wrote:  

(01-18-2018 02:23 PM)TrueBlueDrew Wrote:  

(01-18-2018 01:31 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(01-18-2018 01:25 PM)panama Wrote:  

(01-18-2018 01:20 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  Not too mention:

1) Thousands of miles from old conference
2) Limited OOC prospects
3) Local FBS teams refuse to play in Moscow

If the Sun Belt hadn't cut them loose, or if Boise and WSU would play them yearly (home and home, like NMSU has with UTEP and UNM), it might have been viable in the short team.

Idaho's problems started by decisions try made 60 years ago.

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Idaho didn't have the size and resources to compete in the facilities race. They were one of the smallest public schools in FBS. Does anyone think North Dakota State really would be better off as a medicore MAC school instead of a dominant FCS school? Their championship game on ESPN2 got better ratings than a number of FBS schools bowls on ESPN.

The pinnacle game of the FCS got marginally better ratings than some of the worst bowl games. The Dollar General bowl (one of the "low-tier" bowl games that JMU fans love to mock) got better ratings than the FCS National Championship and outdrew their attendance by almost 10,000 fans even though the game was largely a snooze-fest. FBS bowls, even the low ones, get more national respect and generate more money than anything in the FCS.

Yet more people know NDSU FB then they do Georgia State, Georgia Southern, Appalachian State... name the SBC school. The three lower tier G5 leagues are irrelevant to almost everyone in the country. Heck, App State is likely still better known for knocking off Michigan then anything they have done since moving up.

By the way, the numbers aren't that hard to find. Being on ESPN2, the JMU v NDSU game pulled in a solid 1.5 million. Place it on ESPN, you can likely increase that number by a quarter to right at 2 million.

What do all those bowls who drew less tv viewers then FCS have in common? You decide.

http://www.sportsmediawatch.com/college-...v-ratings/

They are in leagues that are routinely on ESPN, ESPN2, and ESPNU? The advantage to FBS is you dont have to be 14-0 and in the national championship FCS game to be on national TV.

I have always maintained that the athletic department essentially functions as the marketing department of the modern G5 FBS university. There are a 8-10 nationally televised "infomercials" selling student life at Directional U. Better yet, people routinely tune in and watch these informercials. The reality is that between televised football games, televised basketball games, local evening news sports reports, newspaper articles, radio score updates, ect---a kid growing up will literally hear the name of "Directional U" thousands of times before he ever even remotely considers what university to attend. If "Directional U" is really lucky---the kid will become a huge fan of the sports teams before he even start high school. In that case, he is likely to attend "Directional U" simply because he is a rabid fan of the sports team. More typically, he will simply see "Directional U" as a more "brand name" option for no other reason than he hears the name all the time and see's them on tv often.

It would cost far more money than the athletic budget to replicate the exposure and good will an FBS G5 schools generates via the athletic department. But thats not even the best part----the schools doesnt even have to pay the whole cost of the athletic department. Instetad alumni buy tickets, pay for parking buy hot dogs, and just straight up donate money to the cause. Remember---in real life--marketing is cost. You dont expect your marketing department to be a profit center. When you add in that the sports teams also serve as an attractive "student amentity"--the deal gets even better.

So, in my opinion its not a case of the school subsidizing the athletic department---its actually more a case of the alumni subsidizing the schools marketing department.

(01-19-2018 08:18 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(01-19-2018 03:08 PM)jacksfan29 Wrote:  

(01-18-2018 02:23 PM)TrueBlueDrew Wrote:  

(01-18-2018 01:31 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(01-18-2018 01:25 PM)panama Wrote:  Idaho's problems started by decisions try made 60 years ago.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

Idaho didn't have the size and resources to compete in the facilities race. They were one of the smallest public schools in FBS. Does anyone think North Dakota State really would be better off as a medicore MAC school instead of a dominant FCS school? Their championship game on ESPN2 got better ratings than a number of FBS schools bowls on ESPN.

The pinnacle game of the FCS got marginally better ratings than some of the worst bowl games. The Dollar General bowl (one of the "low-tier" bowl games that JMU fans love to mock) got better ratings than the FCS National Championship and outdrew their attendance by almost 10,000 fans even though the game was largely a snooze-fest. FBS bowls, even the low ones, get more national respect and generate more money than anything in the FCS.

Yet more people know NDSU FB then they do Georgia State, Georgia Southern, Appalachian State... name the SBC school. The three lower tier G5 leagues are irrelevant to almost everyone in the country. Heck, App State is likely still better known for knocking off Michigan then anything they have done since moving up.

By the way, the numbers aren't that hard to find. Being on ESPN2, the JMU v NDSU game pulled in a solid 1.5 million. Place it on ESPN, you can likely increase that number by a quarter to right at 2 million.

What do all those bowls who drew less tv viewers then FCS have in common? You decide.

http://www.sportsmediawatch.com/college-...v-ratings/

They are in leagues that are routinely on ESPN, ESPN2, and ESPNU? The advantage to FBS is you dont have to be 14-0 and in the national championship FCS game to be on national TV.

I have always maintained that the athletic department essentially functions as the marketing department of the modern G5 FBS university. There are a 8-10 nationally televised "infomercials" selling student life at Directional U. Better yet, people routinely tune in and watch these informercials. The reality is that between televised football games, televised basketball games, local evening news sports reports, newspaper articles, radio score updates, ect---a kid growing up will literally hear the name of "Directional U" thousands of times before he ever even remotely considers what university to attend. If "Directional U" is really lucky---the kid will become a huge fan of the sports teams before he even start high school. In that case, he is likely to attend "Directional U" simply because he is a rabid fan of the sports team. More typically, he will simply see "Directional U" as a more "brand name" option for no other reason than he hears the name all the time and see's them on tv often.

It would cost far more money than the athletic budget to replicate the exposure and good will an FBS G5 schools generates via the athletic department. But thats not even the best part----the schools doesnt even have to pay the whole cost of the athletic department. Instetad alumni buy tickets, pay for parking buy hot dogs, and just straight up donate money to the cause. Remember---in real life--marketing is cost. You dont expect your marketing department to be a profit center. When you add in that the sports teams also serve as an attractive "student amentity"--the deal gets even better.

So, in my opinion its not a case of the school subsidizing the athletic department---its actually more a case of the alumni subsidizing the schools marketing department.

It’s.that.simple.

We received 31,000 applications for admission the spring after our inaugural season. You cannot buy the advertising that FBS football provides for the university. And the proof of the benefit is, how many schools have moved up to FBS since 1995 vs. how many have moved down. It’s not even close.


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(01-19-2018 08:18 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(01-19-2018 03:08 PM)jacksfan29 Wrote:  

(01-18-2018 02:23 PM)TrueBlueDrew Wrote:  

(01-18-2018 01:31 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(01-18-2018 01:25 PM)panama Wrote:  Idaho's problems started by decisions try made 60 years ago.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

Idaho didn't have the size and resources to compete in the facilities race. They were one of the smallest public schools in FBS. Does anyone think North Dakota State really would be better off as a medicore MAC school instead of a dominant FCS school? Their championship game on ESPN2 got better ratings than a number of FBS schools bowls on ESPN.

The pinnacle game of the FCS got marginally better ratings than some of the worst bowl games. The Dollar General bowl (one of the "low-tier" bowl games that JMU fans love to mock) got better ratings than the FCS National Championship and outdrew their attendance by almost 10,000 fans even though the game was largely a snooze-fest. FBS bowls, even the low ones, get more national respect and generate more money than anything in the FCS.

Yet more people know NDSU FB then they do Georgia State, Georgia Southern, Appalachian State... name the SBC school. The three lower tier G5 leagues are irrelevant to almost everyone in the country. Heck, App State is likely still better known for knocking off Michigan then anything they have done since moving up.

By the way, the numbers aren't that hard to find. Being on ESPN2, the JMU v NDSU game pulled in a solid 1.5 million. Place it on ESPN, you can likely increase that number by a quarter to right at 2 million.

What do all those bowls who drew less tv viewers then FCS have in common? You decide.

http://www.sportsmediawatch.com/college-...v-ratings/

They are in leagues that are routinely on ESPN, ESPN2, and ESPNU? The advantage to FBS is you dont have to be 14-0 and in the national championship FCS game to be on national TV.

I have always maintained that the athletic department essentially functions as the marketing department of the modern G5 FBS university. There are a 8-10 nationally televised "infomercials" selling student life at Directional U. Better yet, people routinely tune in and watch these informercials. The reality is that between televised football games, televised basketball games, local evening news sports reports, newspaper articles, radio score updates, ect---a kid growing up will literally hear the name of "Directional U" thousands of times before he ever even remotely considers what university to attend. If "Directional U" is really lucky---the kid will become a huge fan of the sports teams before he even start high school. In that case, he is likely to attend "Directional U" simply because he is a rabid fan of the sports team. More typically, he will simply see "Directional U" as a more "brand name" option for no other reason than he hears the name all the time and see's them on tv often.

It would cost far more money than the athletic budget to replicate the exposure and good will an FBS G5 schools generates via the athletic department. But thats not even the best part----the schools doesnt even have to pay the whole cost of the athletic department. Instetad alumni buy tickets, pay for parking buy hot dogs, and just straight up donate money to the cause. Remember---in real life--marketing is cost. You dont expect your marketing department to be a profit center. When you add in that the sports teams also serve as an attractive "student amentity"--the deal gets even better.

So, in my opinion its not a case of the school subsidizing the athletic department---its actually more a case of the alumni subsidizing the schools marketing department.

How often do Sun Belt, MAC and CUSA schools get on ESPN or ESPN2 or even ESPNU other than T/W/TH nights?

Since the P5 have been insisting on national coverage, the number of slots for the G5 level conferences has declined.

(01-19-2018 08:50 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(01-19-2018 08:18 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(01-19-2018 03:08 PM)jacksfan29 Wrote:  

(01-18-2018 02:23 PM)TrueBlueDrew Wrote:  

(01-18-2018 01:31 PM)bullet Wrote:  Idaho didn't have the size and resources to compete in the facilities race. They were one of the smallest public schools in FBS. Does anyone think North Dakota State really would be better off as a medicore MAC school instead of a dominant FCS school? Their championship game on ESPN2 got better ratings than a number of FBS schools bowls on ESPN.

The pinnacle game of the FCS got marginally better ratings than some of the worst bowl games. The Dollar General bowl (one of the "low-tier" bowl games that JMU fans love to mock) got better ratings than the FCS National Championship and outdrew their attendance by almost 10,000 fans even though the game was largely a snooze-fest. FBS bowls, even the low ones, get more national respect and generate more money than anything in the FCS.

Yet more people know NDSU FB then they do Georgia State, Georgia Southern, Appalachian State... name the SBC school. The three lower tier G5 leagues are irrelevant to almost everyone in the country. Heck, App State is likely still better known for knocking off Michigan then anything they have done since moving up.

By the way, the numbers aren't that hard to find. Being on ESPN2, the JMU v NDSU game pulled in a solid 1.5 million. Place it on ESPN, you can likely increase that number by a quarter to right at 2 million.

What do all those bowls who drew less tv viewers then FCS have in common? You decide.

http://www.sportsmediawatch.com/college-...v-ratings/

They are in leagues that are routinely on ESPN, ESPN2, and ESPNU? The advantage to FBS is you dont have to be 14-0 and in the national championship FCS game to be on national TV.

I have always maintained that the athletic department essentially functions as the marketing department of the modern G5 FBS university. There are a 8-10 nationally televised "infomercials" selling student life at Directional U. Better yet, people routinely tune in and watch these informercials. The reality is that between televised football games, televised basketball games, local evening news sports reports, newspaper articles, radio score updates, ect---a kid growing up will literally hear the name of "Directional U" thousands of times before he ever even remotely considers what university to attend. If "Directional U" is really lucky---the kid will become a huge fan of the sports teams before he even start high school. In that case, he is likely to attend "Directional U" simply because he is a rabid fan of the sports team. More typically, he will simply see "Directional U" as a more "brand name" option for no other reason than he hears the name all the time and see's them on tv often.

It would cost far more money than the athletic budget to replicate the exposure and good will an FBS G5 schools generates via the athletic department. But thats not even the best part----the schools doesnt even have to pay the whole cost of the athletic department. Instetad alumni buy tickets, pay for parking buy hot dogs, and just straight up donate money to the cause. Remember---in real life--marketing is cost. You dont expect your marketing department to be a profit center. When you add in that the sports teams also serve as an attractive "student amentity"--the deal gets even better.

So, in my opinion its not a case of the school subsidizing the athletic department---its actually more a case of the alumni subsidizing the schools marketing department.

How often do Sun Belt, MAC and CUSA schools get on ESPN or ESPN2 or even ESPNU other than T/W/TH nights?

Since the P5 have been insisting on national coverage, the number of slots for the G5 level conferences has declined.

Conveniently left out ESPN3 which in a streaming world is national. That notwithstanding, you simply cannot compare the passive marketing that exists just by being in FBS in comparison to FCS. More people watch a low tier bowl than the FCS National Championship.There are quite a few schools in the G5 that were it not for their FBS football team I would not know their university existed.

(01-19-2018 08:50 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(01-19-2018 08:18 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(01-19-2018 03:08 PM)jacksfan29 Wrote:  

(01-18-2018 02:23 PM)TrueBlueDrew Wrote:  

(01-18-2018 01:31 PM)bullet Wrote:  Idaho didn't have the size and resources to compete in the facilities race. They were one of the smallest public schools in FBS. Does anyone think North Dakota State really would be better off as a medicore MAC school instead of a dominant FCS school? Their championship game on ESPN2 got better ratings than a number of FBS schools bowls on ESPN.

The pinnacle game of the FCS got marginally better ratings than some of the worst bowl games. The Dollar General bowl (one of the "low-tier" bowl games that JMU fans love to mock) got better ratings than the FCS National Championship and outdrew their attendance by almost 10,000 fans even though the game was largely a snooze-fest. FBS bowls, even the low ones, get more national respect and generate more money than anything in the FCS.

Yet more people know NDSU FB then they do Georgia State, Georgia Southern, Appalachian State... name the SBC school. The three lower tier G5 leagues are irrelevant to almost everyone in the country. Heck, App State is likely still better known for knocking off Michigan then anything they have done since moving up.

By the way, the numbers aren't that hard to find. Being on ESPN2, the JMU v NDSU game pulled in a solid 1.5 million. Place it on ESPN, you can likely increase that number by a quarter to right at 2 million.

What do all those bowls who drew less tv viewers then FCS have in common? You decide.

http://www.sportsmediawatch.com/college-...v-ratings/

They are in leagues that are routinely on ESPN, ESPN2, and ESPNU? The advantage to FBS is you dont have to be 14-0 and in the national championship FCS game to be on national TV.

I have always maintained that the athletic department essentially functions as the marketing department of the modern G5 FBS university. There are a 8-10 nationally televised "infomercials" selling student life at Directional U. Better yet, people routinely tune in and watch these informercials. The reality is that between televised football games, televised basketball games, local evening news sports reports, newspaper articles, radio score updates, ect---a kid growing up will literally hear the name of "Directional U" thousands of times before he ever even remotely considers what university to attend. If "Directional U" is really lucky---the kid will become a huge fan of the sports teams before he even start high school. In that case, he is likely to attend "Directional U" simply because he is a rabid fan of the sports team. More typically, he will simply see "Directional U" as a more "brand name" option for no other reason than he hears the name all the time and see's them on tv often.

It would cost far more money than the athletic budget to replicate the exposure and good will an FBS G5 schools generates via the athletic department. But thats not even the best part----the schools doesnt even have to pay the whole cost of the athletic department. Instetad alumni buy tickets, pay for parking buy hot dogs, and just straight up donate money to the cause. Remember---in real life--marketing is cost. You dont expect your marketing department to be a profit center. When you add in that the sports teams also serve as an attractive "student amentity"--the deal gets even better.

So, in my opinion its not a case of the school subsidizing the athletic department---its actually more a case of the alumni subsidizing the schools marketing department.

How often do Sun Belt, MAC and CUSA schools get on ESPN or ESPN2 or even ESPNU other than T/W/TH nights?

Since the P5 have been insisting on national coverage, the number of slots for the G5 level conferences has declined.

I can only speak for App. I don't know what the Sun Belt package is.

App's payday game this past year was on ESPN vs. Georgia in the opener on a Saturday. Home in October vs. Georgia Southern on ESPNU (Thursday). The bowl game was on ESPN on a Saturday night. I was really stunned that not even ESPNU or an FSN regional picked up the home game vs. Wake Forest considering there was certainly local/regional interest (largest crowd ever at an App State home game).

2016 had the Tennessee game on a Thursday night opener on the SECN. The Miami game in Boone was on ESPN on a Saturday. @ Ga. Southern was on ESPNU (Thursday). Bowl game was ESPN on a Saturday night.

2015 had the Clemson game on one of the ESPN outlets (Saturday). Home vs. Ark. State & Ga. Southern were on ESPNU (both Thursdays). Bowl game was on ESPN on a Saturday night.

All that is a gigantic step up from what App had in the SoCon.

I'm curious if anyone has done a FOIA request on that Rose Bowl email. It might exist, but I have my doubts.

(01-19-2018 09:05 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  

(01-19-2018 08:50 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(01-19-2018 08:18 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(01-19-2018 03:08 PM)jacksfan29 Wrote:  

(01-18-2018 02:23 PM)TrueBlueDrew Wrote:  The pinnacle game of the FCS got marginally better ratings than some of the worst bowl games. The Dollar General bowl (one of the "low-tier" bowl games that JMU fans love to mock) got better ratings than the FCS National Championship and outdrew their attendance by almost 10,000 fans even though the game was largely a snooze-fest. FBS bowls, even the low ones, get more national respect and generate more money than anything in the FCS.

Yet more people know NDSU FB then they do Georgia State, Georgia Southern, Appalachian State... name the SBC school. The three lower tier G5 leagues are irrelevant to almost everyone in the country. Heck, App State is likely still better known for knocking off Michigan then anything they have done since moving up.

By the way, the numbers aren't that hard to find. Being on ESPN2, the JMU v NDSU game pulled in a solid 1.5 million. Place it on ESPN, you can likely increase that number by a quarter to right at 2 million.

What do all those bowls who drew less tv viewers then FCS have in common? You decide.

http://www.sportsmediawatch.com/college-...v-ratings/

They are in leagues that are routinely on ESPN, ESPN2, and ESPNU? The advantage to FBS is you dont have to be 14-0 and in the national championship FCS game to be on national TV.

I have always maintained that the athletic department essentially functions as the marketing department of the modern G5 FBS university. There are a 8-10 nationally televised "infomercials" selling student life at Directional U. Better yet, people routinely tune in and watch these informercials. The reality is that between televised football games, televised basketball games, local evening news sports reports, newspaper articles, radio score updates, ect---a kid growing up will literally hear the name of "Directional U" thousands of times before he ever even remotely considers what university to attend. If "Directional U" is really lucky---the kid will become a huge fan of the sports teams before he even start high school. In that case, he is likely to attend "Directional U" simply because he is a rabid fan of the sports team. More typically, he will simply see "Directional U" as a more "brand name" option for no other reason than he hears the name all the time and see's them on tv often.

It would cost far more money than the athletic budget to replicate the exposure and good will an FBS G5 schools generates via the athletic department. But thats not even the best part----the schools doesnt even have to pay the whole cost of the athletic department. Instetad alumni buy tickets, pay for parking buy hot dogs, and just straight up donate money to the cause. Remember---in real life--marketing is cost. You dont expect your marketing department to be a profit center. When you add in that the sports teams also serve as an attractive "student amentity"--the deal gets even better.

So, in my opinion its not a case of the school subsidizing the athletic department---its actually more a case of the alumni subsidizing the schools marketing department.

How often do Sun Belt, MAC and CUSA schools get on ESPN or ESPN2 or even ESPNU other than T/W/TH nights?

Since the P5 have been insisting on national coverage, the number of slots for the G5 level conferences has declined.

I can only speak for App. I don't know what the Sun Belt package is.

App's payday game this past year was on ESPN vs. Georgia in the opener on a Saturday. Home in October vs. Georgia Southern on ESPNU (Thursday). The bowl game was on ESPN on a Saturday night. I was really stunned that not even ESPNU or an FSN regional picked up the home game vs. Wake Forest considering there was certainly local/regional interest (largest crowd ever at an App State home game).

2016 had the Tennessee game on a Thursday night opener on the SECN. The Miami game in Boone was on ESPN on a Saturday. @ Ga. Southern was on ESPNU (Thursday). Bowl game was ESPN on a Saturday night.

2015 had the Clemson game on one of the ESPN outlets (Saturday). Home vs. Ark. State & Ga. Southern were on ESPNU (both Thursdays). Bowl game was on ESPN on a Saturday night.

All that is a gigantic step up from what App had in the SoCon.

Awww, it wasn't that bad being on PBS sub-channels.

(01-18-2018 02:20 PM)bullet Wrote:  And the biggest athletic deficits are NOT FCS. They are lower level FBS.

Whether that is worth it is debatable, but there is zero question that G5 FBS costs schools more net than FCS. The question is whether long term non-athletic donations and publicity are worth the cost.

Well, for some , the the long term non-athletic donations and publicity are worth the cost. For others, that cost is debatable. You could make that same argument about whether or not a school should even have a football team. I think Seton Hall made a questionable decision to even start a football team, but that’s me.

(01-20-2018 02:01 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  

(01-18-2018 02:20 PM)bullet Wrote:  And the biggest athletic deficits are NOT FCS. They are lower level FBS.

Whether that is worth it is debatable, but there is zero question that G5 FBS costs schools more net than FCS. The question is whether long term non-athletic donations and publicity are worth the cost.

Well, for some , the the long term non-athletic donations and publicity are worth the cost. For others, that cost is debatable. You could make that same argument about whether or not a school should even have a football team. I think Seton Hall made a questionable decision to even start a football team, but that’s me.

I had absolutely no idea Seton Hall ever had football. I knew Xavier did. Did any other current Big East schools besides Butler, Georgetown, and Villanova?

(01-20-2018 02:01 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  

(01-18-2018 02:20 PM)bullet Wrote:  And the biggest athletic deficits are NOT FCS. They are lower level FBS.

Whether that is worth it is debatable, but there is zero question that G5 FBS costs schools more net than FCS. The question is whether long term non-athletic donations and publicity are worth the cost.

Well, for some , the the long term non-athletic donations and publicity are worth the cost. For others, that cost is debatable. You could make that same argument about whether or not a school should even have a football team. I think Seton Hall made a questionable decision to even start a football team, but that’s me.

They played for 100 years.

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(01-20-2018 06:22 AM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  

(01-20-2018 02:01 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  

(01-18-2018 02:20 PM)bullet Wrote:  And the biggest athletic deficits are NOT FCS. They are lower level FBS.

Whether that is worth it is debatable, but there is zero question that G5 FBS costs schools more net than FCS. The question is whether long term non-athletic donations and publicity are worth the cost.

Well, for some , the the long term non-athletic donations and publicity are worth the cost. For others, that cost is debatable. You could make that same argument about whether or not a school should even have a football team. I think Seton Hall made a questionable decision to even start a football team, but that’s me.

I had absolutely no idea Seton Hall ever had football. I knew Xavier did. Did any other current Big East schools besides Butler, Georgetown, and Villanova?

A friend of mine @ work told me about Seton Hall starting up football again when I told him about my school had no football. That’s how I found out.

(01-19-2018 09:05 PM)panama Wrote:  

(01-19-2018 08:50 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(01-19-2018 08:18 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(01-19-2018 03:08 PM)jacksfan29 Wrote:  

(01-18-2018 02:23 PM)TrueBlueDrew Wrote:  The pinnacle game of the FCS got marginally better ratings than some of the worst bowl games. The Dollar General bowl (one of the "low-tier" bowl games that JMU fans love to mock) got better ratings than the FCS National Championship and outdrew their attendance by almost 10,000 fans even though the game was largely a snooze-fest. FBS bowls, even the low ones, get more national respect and generate more money than anything in the FCS.

Yet more people know NDSU FB then they do Georgia State, Georgia Southern, Appalachian State... name the SBC school. The three lower tier G5 leagues are irrelevant to almost everyone in the country. Heck, App State is likely still better known for knocking off Michigan then anything they have done since moving up.

By the way, the numbers aren't that hard to find. Being on ESPN2, the JMU v NDSU game pulled in a solid 1.5 million. Place it on ESPN, you can likely increase that number by a quarter to right at 2 million.

What do all those bowls who drew less tv viewers then FCS have in common? You decide.

http://www.sportsmediawatch.com/college-...v-ratings/

They are in leagues that are routinely on ESPN, ESPN2, and ESPNU? The advantage to FBS is you dont have to be 14-0 and in the national championship FCS game to be on national TV.

I have always maintained that the athletic department essentially functions as the marketing department of the modern G5 FBS university. There are a 8-10 nationally televised "infomercials" selling student life at Directional U. Better yet, people routinely tune in and watch these informercials. The reality is that between televised football games, televised basketball games, local evening news sports reports, newspaper articles, radio score updates, ect---a kid growing up will literally hear the name of "Directional U" thousands of times before he ever even remotely considers what university to attend. If "Directional U" is really lucky---the kid will become a huge fan of the sports teams before he even start high school. In that case, he is likely to attend "Directional U" simply because he is a rabid fan of the sports team. More typically, he will simply see "Directional U" as a more "brand name" option for no other reason than he hears the name all the time and see's them on tv often.

It would cost far more money than the athletic budget to replicate the exposure and good will an FBS G5 schools generates via the athletic department. But thats not even the best part----the schools doesnt even have to pay the whole cost of the athletic department. Instetad alumni buy tickets, pay for parking buy hot dogs, and just straight up donate money to the cause. Remember---in real life--marketing is cost. You dont expect your marketing department to be a profit center. When you add in that the sports teams also serve as an attractive "student amentity"--the deal gets even better.

So, in my opinion its not a case of the school subsidizing the athletic department---its actually more a case of the alumni subsidizing the schools marketing department.

How often do Sun Belt, MAC and CUSA schools get on ESPN or ESPN2 or even ESPNU other than T/W/TH nights?

Since the P5 have been insisting on national coverage, the number of slots for the G5 level conferences has declined.

Conveniently left out ESPN3 which in a streaming world is national. That notwithstanding, you simply cannot compare the passive marketing that exists just by being in FBS in comparison to FCS. More people watch a low tier bowl than the FCS National Championship.There are quite a few schools in the G5 that were it not for their FBS football team I would not know their university existed.

You mean ESPN3 where all MVFC games are shown, on Saturdays?

Georgia State received more marketing from their head Men's BB coach collapsing/falling over, their G5 football status. Again, most people don't know, care, realize... the words escape me, that GSU are FBS. And to be honest, the way your team plays, I'm not sure you are FBS. You have lost to almost every FCS school you have played since moving up. You beat a transitioning from D2 Abilene Christian and this year, lost to Tennessee State of all schools. Next season, I'll take Kennesaw State and give you three TDs. Georgia State, like most schools in the bottom three G5 leagues, is FBS in name only. Not a lot of return on your dollar.

(01-20-2018 09:13 PM)jacksfan29 Wrote:  

(01-19-2018 09:05 PM)panama Wrote:  

(01-19-2018 08:50 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(01-19-2018 08:18 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(01-19-2018 03:08 PM)jacksfan29 Wrote:  Yet more people know NDSU FB then they do Georgia State, Georgia Southern, Appalachian State... name the SBC school. The three lower tier G5 leagues are irrelevant to almost everyone in the country. Heck, App State is likely still better known for knocking off Michigan then anything they have done since moving up.

By the way, the numbers aren't that hard to find. Being on ESPN2, the JMU v NDSU game pulled in a solid 1.5 million. Place it on ESPN, you can likely increase that number by a quarter to right at 2 million.

What do all those bowls who drew less tv viewers then FCS have in common? You decide.

http://www.sportsmediawatch.com/college-...v-ratings/

They are in leagues that are routinely on ESPN, ESPN2, and ESPNU? The advantage to FBS is you dont have to be 14-0 and in the national championship FCS game to be on national TV.

I have always maintained that the athletic department essentially functions as the marketing department of the modern G5 FBS university. There are a 8-10 nationally televised "infomercials" selling student life at Directional U. Better yet, people routinely tune in and watch these informercials. The reality is that between televised football games, televised basketball games, local evening news sports reports, newspaper articles, radio score updates, ect---a kid growing up will literally hear the name of "Directional U" thousands of times before he ever even remotely considers what university to attend. If "Directional U" is really lucky---the kid will become a huge fan of the sports teams before he even start high school. In that case, he is likely to attend "Directional U" simply because he is a rabid fan of the sports team. More typically, he will simply see "Directional U" as a more "brand name" option for no other reason than he hears the name all the time and see's them on tv often.

It would cost far more money than the athletic budget to replicate the exposure and good will an FBS G5 schools generates via the athletic department. But thats not even the best part----the schools doesnt even have to pay the whole cost of the athletic department. Instetad alumni buy tickets, pay for parking buy hot dogs, and just straight up donate money to the cause. Remember---in real life--marketing is cost. You dont expect your marketing department to be a profit center. When you add in that the sports teams also serve as an attractive "student amentity"--the deal gets even better.

So, in my opinion its not a case of the school subsidizing the athletic department---its actually more a case of the alumni subsidizing the schools marketing department.

How often do Sun Belt, MAC and CUSA schools get on ESPN or ESPN2 or even ESPNU other than T/W/TH nights?

Since the P5 have been insisting on national coverage, the number of slots for the G5 level conferences has declined.

Conveniently left out ESPN3 which in a streaming world is national. That notwithstanding, you simply cannot compare the passive marketing that exists just by being in FBS in comparison to FCS. More people watch a low tier bowl than the FCS National Championship.There are quite a few schools in the G5 that were it not for their FBS football team I would not know their university existed.

You mean ESPN3 where all MVFC games are shown, on Saturdays?

Georgia State received more marketing from their head Men's BB coach collapsing/falling over, their G5 football status. Again, most people don't know, care, realize... the words escape me, that GSU are FBS. And to be honest, the way your team plays, I'm not sure you are FBS. You have lost to almost every FCS school you have played since moving up. You beat a transitioning from D2 Abilene Christian and this year, lost to Tennessee State of all schools. Next season, I'll take Kennesaw State and give you three TDs. Georgia State, like most schools in the bottom three G5 leagues, is FBS in name only. Not a lot of return on your dollar.

Our President says...

You obviously are not allowed to make business decisions at your day job.

Not sure why you're wadding your undergarments but we went 7-5, won a bowl game and have beat the option team KSU wishes they were three years in a row.

Nobody talks about Kennesaw State...ever which is why we went FBS. Ask President Becker how many multimillion dollar gifts academics has received since 2010. Ask admissions what the change is admissions applications has been since 2010.


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