(02-22-2018 07:49 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(02-22-2018 05:00 PM)Claw Wrote:  Before the printing press most people couldn't read and didn't have access to Biblical writings.

Doing so is not a requirement for salvation.

Sorry, but you won't be able to hide behind that excuse. You live in a culture and time where the Word of God was more avivbale to you than any time in the history of the world.

"To whom much is given, much will be expected"

I understand your point, but I am referring to the Christians of the past.

Yes, there were people who read and studied the scripture, but for most of history, those were an elite educated and/or clerical strata of society.

The printing press came along in around 1440 and guess what happens? Everything changed.

BIbles before the printing press

(02-22-2018 08:05 PM)Claw Wrote:  

(02-22-2018 07:49 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(02-22-2018 05:00 PM)Claw Wrote:  Before the printing press most people couldn't read and didn't have access to Biblical writings.

Doing so is not a requirement for salvation.

Sorry, but you won't be able to hide behind that excuse. You live in a culture and time where the Word of God was more avivbale to you than any time in the history of the world.

"To whom much is given, much will be expected"

I understand your point, but I am referring to the Christians of the past.

Yes, there were people who read and studied the scripture, but for most of history, those were an elite educated and/or clerical strata of society.

The printing press came along in around 1440 and guess what happens? Everything changed.

BIbles before the printing press

If you understand my point then your point was moot.

He judges the hearts of each of us righteously. Those who had little access to His Word and those like you and me who were SURROUNDED by His word our entire lives.

I wouldn't worry about early Christians who are already with the Lord, I would worry much more about myself and those still lost today.

You can't claim to be a follower of Jesus, yet willfully reject His Word and teachings. That is self-deception. Jesus knew the scriptures, the Apostles knew the scriptures, how can you claim to follow them but be willingly ignorant of the Word?

James 1:22
But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.


How are you gonna Do what the word says if you aren't even willing to HEAR/READ the Word in the first place?

(02-22-2018 07:58 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(02-22-2018 07:53 PM)Old Dominion Wrote:  

(02-22-2018 07:47 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(02-22-2018 04:48 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  Why does everyone have a different interpretation of the bible, if there is no interpretation involved?

Also, I don't get why we still have sin from Adam if Jesus died for our sins.

I think you know this is a very childish question.

Everyone isn't automatically forgiven just because Jesus died on the cross, you are forgiven because you have accepted Christ as your Savior.

Ah yes, the ultimate manipulation. The creative energy of this universe and everything beyond could care less if you are a Christian or not. All creatures human or other wise are created as a mirror of the creator.
Remember, we were not born with original sin, that's a human concept. We were born with original grace. Jesus died and was resurrected not to pay a blood debt, but to prove to humans there is no real death.

As has been shown to you many times now, We are SAVED/REDEEMED/ JUSTIFIED specifically by the blood of Christ. The NT says this word for word over and over and over again. If you had actually read the NT, you would have known this already.

Do I really need to post all those verses AGAIN?

The issue is not being born with original sin, the issue is every person walking the planet has sinned.

You don't repent of Adam and Eve's sin, you repent of YOUR OWN SINS

You see Revenge, the whole problem is I don't believe the bible the way you do. I know it's inconceivable to you that others can interpret things differently from you and I guess that's why you so doggedly quote verse after verse, cause in your mind it is incontrovertibly true. You seem to cling to the naïve belief that if you quote enough scripture, people will ultimately see the light.
Here's the deal. The bible was written years after Jesus died and we're not sure who actually wrote. We're not sure what political influences colored the writing. We're not really sure what Jesus said and what some people say he said. You can find a verse to support every argument you can think of. Verses should never be taken out of context. They only have meaning within the context of the whole bible.

Again, a literal belief is a low level, immature understanding. The bible has many, many layers. Don't stop at the surface.

(02-22-2018 08:16 PM)Old Dominion Wrote:  You see Revenge, the whole problem is I don't believe the bible the way you do. I know it's inconceivable to you that others can interpret things differently from you and I guess that's why you so doggedly quote verse after verse, cause in your mind it is incontrovertibly true. You seem to cling to the naïve belief that if you quote enough scripture, people will ultimately see the light.
Here's the deal. The bible was written years after Jesus died and we're not sure who actually wrote. We're not sure what political influences colored the writing. We're not really sure what Jesus said and what some people say he said. You can find a verse to support every argument you can think of. Verses should never be taken out of context. They only have meaning within the context of the whole bible.

Again, a literal belief is a low level, immature understanding. The bible has many, many layers. Don't stop at the surface.

I'm well aware you haven't read the bible and don't accept the teaching in the bible but instead make it all up yourself or borrow from others who make it all up themselves.

You are contradiction yourself by arguing about taking verses out of context (which I did not do) when you yourself don't even believe the bible to be the Word of God.

Furthermore, the "bible" was NOT written after Jesus. The OT was completed centuries before His birth, and we still have copies of it that old. The NT was OBVIOUSLY written after the events occurred. DUH. Jesus Himself said they would write these things down well after they had happened, and that the Spirit would guide them to remember all things as intended.

We have surviving copies of each NT book through from the first 2 centuries of the church, long before Rome or any councils became involved. We also have 200 thousand letters from the early church fathers in the first 2 centuries and they all include entire chapters of scripture, quoting the entire NT for us. We KNOW what books and what words the early church considered to be canon.

You apparently believe in a false God who says Jesus did NOT die for our sins and you think has the power to created the heavens and earth, but lacked the power to keep His OT promises and preserved His Word for us even into the last days.

(02-22-2018 08:09 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(02-22-2018 08:05 PM)Claw Wrote:  

(02-22-2018 07:49 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(02-22-2018 05:00 PM)Claw Wrote:  Before the printing press most people couldn't read and didn't have access to Biblical writings.

Doing so is not a requirement for salvation.

Sorry, but you won't be able to hide behind that excuse. You live in a culture and time where the Word of God was more avivbale to you than any time in the history of the world.

"To whom much is given, much will be expected"

I understand your point, but I am referring to the Christians of the past.

Yes, there were people who read and studied the scripture, but for most of history, those were an elite educated and/or clerical strata of society.

The printing press came along in around 1440 and guess what happens? Everything changed.

BIbles before the printing press

If you understand my point then your point was moot.

He judges the hearts of each of us righteously. Those who had little access to His Word and those like you and me who were SURROUNDED by His word our entire lives.

I wouldn't worry about early Christians who are already with the Lord, I would worry much more about myself and those still lost today.

You can't claim to be a follower of Jesus, yet willfully reject His Word and teachings. That is self-deception. Jesus knew the scriptures, the Apostles knew the scriptures, how can you claim to follow them but be willingly ignorant of the Word?

James 1:22
But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

Moving along, I don't believe God is going to condemn Christians over their interpretation of the scripture.

You may. Certainly some do.

The reason I do not is very simple. We cannot pretend to understand the mind of God. To do so is foolish.

I don't think he expects us to understand everything, but as you point out, he does expect us to try.

(02-22-2018 08:28 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(02-22-2018 08:16 PM)Old Dominion Wrote:  You see Revenge, the whole problem is I don't believe the bible the way you do. I know it's inconceivable to you that others can interpret things differently from you and I guess that's why you so doggedly quote verse after verse, cause in your mind it is incontrovertibly true. You seem to cling to the naïve belief that if you quote enough scripture, people will ultimately see the light.
Here's the deal. The bible was written years after Jesus died and we're not sure who actually wrote. We're not sure what political influences colored the writing. We're not really sure what Jesus said and what some people say he said. You can find a verse to support every argument you can think of. Verses should never be taken out of context. They only have meaning within the context of the whole bible.

Again, a literal belief is a low level, immature understanding. The bible has many, many layers. Don't stop at the surface.

I'm well aware you haven't read the bible and don't accept the teaching in the bible but instead make it all up yourself or borrow from others who make it all up themselves.

You are contradiction yourself by arguing about taking verses out of context (which I did not do) when you yourself don't even believe the bible to be the Word of God.

Furthermore, the "bible" was NOT written after Jesus. The OT was completed centuries before His birth, and we still have copies of it that old. The NT was OBVIOUSLY written after the events occurred. DUH

We have copies of each NT book through from the first 2 centuries of the church, long before Rome or any councils became involved. We also have 200 thousand letters from the early church fathers in the first 2 centuries and they all include entire chapters of scripture, quoting the entire NT for us.

You apparently believe in a false God who you think has the power to created the heavens and earth, but lacked the power to keep His OT promises and preserved His Word for us even into the last days.

Does anyone else see the complete lack of perspective in this? I've said all I'm going to. Impossible to reason with a fanatic.

(02-22-2018 08:30 PM)Claw Wrote:  Moving along, I don't believe God is going to condemn Christians over their interpretation of the scripture.

You may. Certainly some do.

The reason I do not is very simple. We cannot pretend to understand the mind of God. To do so is foolish.

I don't think he expects us to understand everything, but as you point out, he does expect us to try.

That is not what we are talking about here claw.

How are you going to know what salvation is if you don't even bother to learn what salvation is in the bible?

Are you aware of how many times Christ and the entire NT warned about people deceiving themselves into thinking they were following Christ as their Savior? Are you aware how many times it warns about falling into false doctrine? How are you going to understand how to NOT deceive yourself if you have decided you don't need the Word of God in your life?

Matthew 7:22-24
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.


How are you going to avoid deceiving yourself and falling into false doctrine if you refuse to study the scriptures or understand what they teach?

(02-22-2018 08:32 PM)Old Dominion Wrote:  

(02-22-2018 08:28 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(02-22-2018 08:16 PM)Old Dominion Wrote:  You see Revenge, the whole problem is I don't believe the bible the way you do. I know it's inconceivable to you that others can interpret things differently from you and I guess that's why you so doggedly quote verse after verse, cause in your mind it is incontrovertibly true. You seem to cling to the naïve belief that if you quote enough scripture, people will ultimately see the light.
Here's the deal. The bible was written years after Jesus died and we're not sure who actually wrote. We're not sure what political influences colored the writing. We're not really sure what Jesus said and what some people say he said. You can find a verse to support every argument you can think of. Verses should never be taken out of context. They only have meaning within the context of the whole bible.

Again, a literal belief is a low level, immature understanding. The bible has many, many layers. Don't stop at the surface.

I'm well aware you haven't read the bible and don't accept the teaching in the bible but instead make it all up yourself or borrow from others who make it all up themselves.

You are contradiction yourself by arguing about taking verses out of context (which I did not do) when you yourself don't even believe the bible to be the Word of God.

Furthermore, the "bible" was NOT written after Jesus. The OT was completed centuries before His birth, and we still have copies of it that old. The NT was OBVIOUSLY written after the events occurred. DUH

We have copies of each NT book through from the first 2 centuries of the church, long before Rome or any councils became involved. We also have 200 thousand letters from the early church fathers in the first 2 centuries and they all include entire chapters of scripture, quoting the entire NT for us.

You apparently believe in a false God who you think has the power to created the heavens and earth, but lacked the power to keep His OT promises and preserved His Word for us even into the last days.

Does anyone else see the complete lack of perspective in this? I've said all I'm going to. Impossible to reason with a fanatic.

Peace and grace to you my friend, God Bless.

I'll share my own story. I was a christian (southern baptist) for 25+ years. Very strong christian. I went to camps, church 2-3 times a week, bible studies, etc. I've read the bible cover to cover a few times (I used to read a chapter a night). God was the biggest part of my life. Then my faith shattered. It wasn't something I wanted to happen, I just couldn't sustain my belief anymore.

As a result of studying the bible in detail, I found things over time that were problematic. For example, internal contradictions between verses (which creates the issue of God's word, the bible, not being infallible) and philosophical issues like the logical Problem of Evil. For years, I struggled with doubt. Finally, in my last year of law school, I admitted to myself I didn't believe that it was true anymore. The training from law school, i.e. formal logic, reason, Socratic method, and rules of evidence, destroyed the foundation of my faith. I wanted to believe in it, but I couldn't logically believe it was truth.

For years afterward, I struggled with direction in my life. Being a christian had been the foundation of my life and my identity. Over time, I made peace with it. I consider myself an Agnostic. Though for practical purposes, I'm more like an Atheist in that I do not believe in a personal or loving god. Philosophical arguments support an indifferent creator or first mover god at best, something along the lines of Nature itself.

My worldview/philosophy now is a combination of Stoicism and Absurdism (a branch of nihilism that says while life may not have any objective meaning, you can create meaning for yourself, or the struggle to find meaning is enough to fill your heart).

I'll link some things that I've found interesting in my search for truth and my issues with the veracity of the bible. I hope that help other truth seekers out there.

Wikipedia links:
Internal Consistency of the Bible
Criticism of the Bible
The Problem of Evil
Stoicism
Absurdism

Christians may say, what is the danger of believing in Christianity? (or any religion for that matter) If Christianity is false, then you've lived your life for something else, instead of yourself and all your actions and opinions were altered by some degree under that falsehood. That seems like a pretty big negative to me.

You say I may go to hell if I'm wrong, to that I would respond the way Marcus Aurelius would (he was a prominent stoic philosopher):

“Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.”
― Marcus Aurelius

I would view any god that would sentence people to an eternity to hell for earnest beliefs or ignorance of god to be cruel, unjust, or evil, and therefore unworthy of worship.

(02-22-2018 08:05 PM)Claw Wrote:  

(02-22-2018 07:49 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(02-22-2018 05:00 PM)Claw Wrote:  Before the printing press most people couldn't read and didn't have access to Biblical writings.

Doing so is not a requirement for salvation.

Sorry, but you won't be able to hide behind that excuse. You live in a culture and time where the Word of God was more avivbale to you than any time in the history of the world.

"To whom much is given, much will be expected"

I understand your point, but I am referring to the Christians of the past.

Yes, there were people who read and studied the scripture, but for most of history, those were an elite educated and/or clerical strata of society.

The printing press came along in around 1440 and guess what happens? Everything changed.

BIbles before the printing press

How do you think people from Moses to Jesus were taught( educated) about God's written word? Jesus's family was very poor, but had a great Knowledge of God.

(02-22-2018 09:23 PM)Jugnaut Wrote:  I would view any god that would sentence people to an eternity to hell for earnest beliefs or ignorance of god to be cruel, unjust, or evil, and therefore unworthy of worship.

Slow clap, rising to crescendo.

(02-22-2018 08:05 PM)Claw Wrote:  

(02-22-2018 07:49 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(02-22-2018 05:00 PM)Claw Wrote:  Before the printing press most people couldn't read and didn't have access to Biblical writings.

Doing so is not a requirement for salvation.

Sorry, but you won't be able to hide behind that excuse. You live in a culture and time where the Word of God was more avivbale to you than any time in the history of the world.

"To whom much is given, much will be expected"

I understand your point, but I am referring to the Christians of the past.




Yes, there were people who read and studied the scripture, but for most of history, those were an elite educated and/or clerical strata of society.

The printing press came along in around 1440 and guess what happens? Everything changed.

BIbles before the printing press

For a very lonnnnnggg time the only religion allowed was Catholicism and ONLY priests were allowed access to Bibles. Martin Luther was a priest and that's why he addressed the issues that the Pope wanted him dead for. Those issues that Luther questioned were pinned on a church door (?) and that's how it all started, i.e. The Reformation. Even as late as the 20th century the Catholic church still retained a very strong hold on everyone until even a country like Mexico as staunch catholic as they are were trying to stamp out the religion in that country. You have to remember that no one dared question the church because the punishment was very, very severe. There were instances were someone was proclaimed a heretic by the church but he died before he was tried but that didn't stop the Pope to have the person exhumed and then burned at the stake. You don't think that convinced catholics of that time to not rock the boat? If you were a noble everything was taken away from your family and you were punished by death. That even kings were afraid of the Pope's power and the power of excommunication kept them adhered to the church.

Unfortunately, even today many priests don't even know what's in the Bible as their main bible is the Catechism. If they really knew what the Bible said I actually believe that many would leave the Catholic church. I know that's why I did. Until I started reading the Bible I was one of its staunchest supporter of the Catholic religion. I was like in a movie that one character was speaking of his father saying that his father didn't know much about the religion but you better not say anything bad about it.

"I would view any god that would sentence people to an eternity to hell for earnest beliefs or ignorance of god to be cruel, unjust, or evil, and therefore unworthy of worship".


Your problem is not with the Bible.Your problem is with the conclusions or Doctrines masqueraded as truth . Philosophies of men are just as contradictory and unfulfilling you will find. Keep up your search for Truth.

(02-22-2018 09:29 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  

(02-22-2018 08:05 PM)Claw Wrote:  

(02-22-2018 07:49 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(02-22-2018 05:00 PM)Claw Wrote:  Before the printing press most people couldn't read and didn't have access to Biblical writings.

Doing so is not a requirement for salvation.

Sorry, but you won't be able to hide behind that excuse. You live in a culture and time where the Word of God was more avivbale to you than any time in the history of the world.

"To whom much is given, much will be expected"

I understand your point, but I am referring to the Christians of the past.




Yes, there were people who read and studied the scripture, but for most of history, those were an elite educated and/or clerical strata of society.

The printing press came along in around 1440 and guess what happens? Everything changed.

BIbles before the printing press

For a very lonnnnnggg time the only religion allowed was Catholicism and ONLY priests were allowed access to Bibles. Martin Luther was a priest and that's why he addressed the issues that the Pope wanted him dead for. Those issues that Luther questioned were pinned on a church door (?) and that's how it all started, i.e. The Reformation. Even as late as the 20th century the Catholic church still retained a very strong hold on everyone until even a country like Mexico as staunch catholic as they are were trying to stamp out the religion in that country. You have to remember that no one dared question the church because the punishment was very, very severe. There were instances were someone was proclaimed a heretic by the church but he died before he was tried but that didn't stop the Pope to have the person exhumed and then burned at the stake. You don't think that convinced catholics of that time to not rock the boat? If you were a noble everything was taken away from your family and you were punished by death. That even kings were afraid of the Pope's power and the power of excommunication kept them adhered to the church.

Unfortunately, even today many priests don't even know what's in the Bible as their main bible is the Catechism. If they really knew what the Bible said I actually believe that many would leave the Catholic church. I know that's why I did. Until I started reading the Bible I was one of its staunchest supporter of the Catholic religion. I was like in a movie that one character was speaking of his father saying that his father didn't know much about the religion but you better not say anything bad about it.

Church History that few people know about.

Very interesting book for those of you inclined to see thought as an evolutionary process " The Evolution of God" by Robert Wright.

Comedians can speak the truth, even if offensive. Enjoy

I find 0:40 to about 1:20 the best.

(02-22-2018 09:27 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  

(02-22-2018 09:23 PM)Jugnaut Wrote:  I would view any god that would sentence people to an eternity to hell for earnest beliefs or ignorance of god to be cruel, unjust, or evil, and therefore unworthy of worship.

Slow clap, rising to crescendo.

You both believe this because you are willingly ignorant of the fact that God knows the heart of everyone who has ever lived and does not let ONE SINGLE PERSON who believes with all their heart end up in hell.

Jeremiah 29:13
“And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart.”

Luke 11:9-10
And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.


Its up to you to seek Him and believe with all your heart.

Salvation is a FREE GIFT. You either accept His free gift or you refuse it. Its your choice.

You want to willingly reject His free gift and then blame God for your own rejection of His FREE gift to you.

(02-22-2018 09:44 PM)Old Dominion Wrote:  Very interesting book for those of you inclined to see thought as an evolutionary process " The Evolution of God" by Robert Wright.

Does Robert Wright give refunds on life?

(02-22-2018 09:23 PM)Jugnaut Wrote:  I'll share my own story. I was a christian (southern baptist) for 25+ years. Very strong christian. I went to camps, church 2-3 times a week, bible studies, etc. I've read the bible cover to cover a few times (I used to read a chapter a night). God was the biggest part of my life. Then my faith shattered. It wasn't something I wanted to happen, I just couldn't sustain my belief anymore.

As a result of studying the bible in detail, I found things over time that were problematic. For example, internal contradictions between verses (which creates the issue of God's word, the bible, not being infallible) and philosophical issues like the logical Problem of Evil. For years, I struggled with doubt. Finally, in my last year of law school, I admitted to myself I didn't believe that it was true anymore. The training from law school, i.e. formal logic, reason, Socratic method, and rules of evidence, destroyed the foundation of my faith. I wanted to believe in it, but I couldn't logically believe it was truth.

For years afterward, I struggled with direction in my life. Being a christian had been the foundation of my life and my identity. Over time, I made peace with it. I consider myself an Agnostic. Though for practical purposes, I'm more like an Atheist in that I do not believe in a personal or loving god. Philosophical arguments support an indifferent creator or first mover god at best, something along the lines of Nature itself.

My worldview/philosophy now is a combination of Stoicism and Absurdism (a branch of nihilism that says while life may not have any objective meaning, you can create meaning for yourself, or the struggle to find meaning is enough to fill your heart).

I'll link some things that I've found interesting in my search for truth and my issues with the veracity of the bible. I hope that help other truth seekers out there.

Wikipedia links:
Internal Consistency of the Bible
Criticism of the Bible
The Problem of Evil
Stoicism
Absurdism

Christians may say, what is the danger of believing in Christianity? (or any religion for that matter) If Christianity is false, then you've lived your life for something else, instead of yourself and all your actions and opinions were altered by some degree under that falsehood. That seems like a pretty big negative to me.

You say I may go to hell if I'm wrong, to that I would respond the way Marcus Aurelius would (he was a prominent stoic philosopher):

“Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.”
― Marcus Aurelius

I would view any god that would sentence people to an eternity to hell for earnest beliefs or ignorance of god to be cruel, unjust, or evil, and therefore unworthy of worship.

I would very much like to know where all these contradictions concerning salvation and the NT are that you say damaged your faith.

If you think they exist then get specific and point them out.

Its one thing to vaguely and unspecifically make these claims, its another to get specific and actually point them out.

If they are there, then we should be able to easily point them out specifically. I've heard a lot of atheists and agnostics make these claims, but they never can actually show any key contradictions that hold up under honestly fact checking and scrutiny.

I challenge you to step up to the plate and show them to us. If you have truly studied the bible as you claim, this should not be difficult at all.

(02-22-2018 09:29 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  

(02-22-2018 08:05 PM)Claw Wrote:  

(02-22-2018 07:49 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(02-22-2018 05:00 PM)Claw Wrote:  Before the printing press most people couldn't read and didn't have access to Biblical writings.

Doing so is not a requirement for salvation.

Sorry, but you won't be able to hide behind that excuse. You live in a culture and time where the Word of God was more avivbale to you than any time in the history of the world.

"To whom much is given, much will be expected"

I understand your point, but I am referring to the Christians of the past.




Yes, there were people who read and studied the scripture, but for most of history, those were an elite educated and/or clerical strata of society.

The printing press came along in around 1440 and guess what happens? Everything changed.

BIbles before the printing press

For a very lonnnnnggg time the only religion allowed was Catholicism and ONLY priests were allowed access to Bibles. Martin Luther was a priest and that's why he addressed the issues that the Pope wanted him dead for. Those issues that Luther questioned were pinned on a church door (?) and that's how it all started, i.e. The Reformation. Even as late as the 20th century the Catholic church still retained a very strong hold on everyone until even a country like Mexico as staunch catholic as they are were trying to stamp out the religion in that country. You have to remember that no one dared question the church because the punishment was very, very severe. There were instances were someone was proclaimed a heretic by the church but he died before he was tried but that didn't stop the Pope to have the person exhumed and then burned at the stake. You don't think that convinced catholics of that time to not rock the boat? If you were a noble everything was taken away from your family and you were punished by death. That even kings were afraid of the Pope's power and the power of excommunication kept them adhered to the church.

Unfortunately, even today many priests don't even know what's in the Bible as their main bible is the Catechism. If they really knew what the Bible said I actually believe that many would leave the Catholic church. I know that's why I did. Until I started reading the Bible I was one of its staunchest supporter of the Catholic religion. I was like in a movie that one character was speaking of his father saying that his father didn't know much about the religion but you better not say anything bad about it.

TRUTH