(02-22-2018 08:46 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(02-22-2018 08:21 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(02-22-2018 08:07 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(02-22-2018 07:57 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(02-22-2018 07:39 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  Pros make mistakes in stressful situations... I can't imagine how a math teacher might react.

So don't protect the kids gotcha. No need for a police they could make a mistake. Brilliant.

Armed teachers don’t offer much protection.

How so?

A hall of mass confusion and an untrained, nervous teacher... I’m just not seeing it.

So any mass shooting? 99% of police never experience it. Best to let the killer do whatever he wants and everyone wait outside. How would a teacher be nervous? So again you have no solutions.

(02-22-2018 08:49 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(02-22-2018 08:46 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(02-22-2018 08:21 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(02-22-2018 08:07 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(02-22-2018 07:57 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  So don't protect the kids gotcha. No need for a police they could make a mistake. Brilliant.

Armed teachers don’t offer much protection.

How so?

A hall of mass confusion and an untrained, nervous teacher... I’m just not seeing it.

So any mass shooting? 99% of police never experience it. Best to let the killer do whatever he wants and everyone wait outside. How would a teacher be nervous? So again you have no solutions.

Experienced hunters get buck fever and miss when a nice deer appears... multiply that x’s 100 with a live shooter and mass chaos.

(02-22-2018 09:22 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(02-22-2018 08:49 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(02-22-2018 08:46 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(02-22-2018 08:21 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(02-22-2018 08:07 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  Armed teachers don’t offer much protection.

How so?

A hall of mass confusion and an untrained, nervous teacher... I’m just not seeing it.

So any mass shooting? 99% of police never experience it. Best to let the killer do whatever he wants and everyone wait outside. How would a teacher be nervous? So again you have no solutions.

Experienced hunters get buck fever and miss when a nice deer appears... multiply that x’s 100 with a live shooter and mass chaos.

What does that have to with anything? Nothing. Weak ass ignorant post.

(02-22-2018 08:07 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(02-22-2018 07:57 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(02-22-2018 07:39 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(02-22-2018 07:22 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(02-22-2018 06:52 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  Not sure how arming teachers helps anybody... likely means more kids get shot.

How so?

Pros make mistakes in stressful situations... I can't imagine how a math teacher might react.

So don't protect the kids gotcha. No need for a police they could make a mistake. Brilliant.

Armed teachers don’t offer much protection.

I think it has to be a teacher that is totally comfortable with carrying and fully trained. Not everyone is cut out for it for sure. I can tell you that I know personally a teacher that has quietly carried for years despite it being illegal. Id trust HER to defend her classroom against an attacker more than any police officer. Ive seen her in action on the range hitting targets from almost every conceivable firing position including rolling on the ground. Whoever decided to breach her classroom would not fare well.

(02-22-2018 09:22 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(02-22-2018 08:49 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(02-22-2018 08:46 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(02-22-2018 08:21 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(02-22-2018 08:07 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  Armed teachers don’t offer much protection.

How so?

A hall of mass confusion and an untrained, nervous teacher... I’m just not seeing it.

So any mass shooting? 99% of police never experience it. Best to let the killer do whatever he wants and everyone wait outside. How would a teacher be nervous? So again you have no solutions.

Experienced hunters get buck fever and miss when a nice deer appears... multiply that x’s 100 with a live shooter and mass chaos.

Anyone that thinks it is easy to hit a target with an handgun and has not done it?...needs to get educated. It is NOT easy and takes a LOT of practice to be proficient. I would agree generally that when you add the fog of war into it? Hitting a perp is not an easy task. It is though better than being unarmed and defenseless...especially if a teacher can take a defensive position behind a barricaded door and be drawn and ready.

(02-22-2018 09:22 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(02-22-2018 08:49 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(02-22-2018 08:46 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(02-22-2018 08:21 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(02-22-2018 08:07 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  Armed teachers don’t offer much protection.

How so?

A hall of mass confusion and an untrained, nervous teacher... I’m just not seeing it.

So any mass shooting? 99% of police never experience it. Best to let the killer do whatever he wants and everyone wait outside. How would a teacher be nervous? So again you have no solutions.

Experienced hunters get buck fever and miss when a nice deer appears... multiply that x’s 100 with a live shooter and mass chaos.

Using your line of thinking we should disarm our law enforcement and military as well. There's a lot of blue-on-blue incidents there as well.

(02-22-2018 04:19 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(02-22-2018 04:05 PM)Topkat Wrote:  Last I remember, that county the West Chester school district is in (Butler) leans heavily to the Republican side (so this possible action doesn't surprise me).

The school district or county board would have to approve it, I assume.

Funny, Hamilton county (includes Cincinnati), just to the south, leans left. Their county or local School Districts probably wouldn't go for something like this.

Since schools have unique financial constraints, I like the idea. The biggest issue I see is coordinating any action with local authorities once they arrive on the scene to prevent mass chaos with who is shooting at whom.

Sad to see, but I remember more than a few people "back in the day" telling me the same type situations that take place in the Middle East would eventually make their way to Europe and the US, even if the underlying issues might be different.

I heard that about 100 school districts in Ohio with armed employees that have been disclosed, and disclosure isn't a requirement. Sidney schools up by Dayton have 40 employees packing. I bet there are school systems in Hamilton County with Teachers carrying.

Looks like Ohio is into it big time.

https://www.buckeyefirearms.org/another-...afety-plan

(02-22-2018 10:06 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(02-22-2018 09:22 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(02-22-2018 08:49 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(02-22-2018 08:46 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(02-22-2018 08:21 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  How so?

A hall of mass confusion and an untrained, nervous teacher... I’m just not seeing it.

So any mass shooting? 99% of police never experience it. Best to let the killer do whatever he wants and everyone wait outside. How would a teacher be nervous? So again you have no solutions.

Experienced hunters get buck fever and miss when a nice deer appears... multiply that x’s 100 with a live shooter and mass chaos.

Anyone that thinks it is easy to hit a target with an handgun and has not done it?...needs to get educated. It is NOT easy and takes a LOT of practice to be proficient. I would agree generally that when you add the fog of war into it? Hitting a perp is not an easy task. It is though better than being unarmed and defenseless...especially if a teacher can take a defensive position behind a barricaded door and be drawn and ready.

So let perps do what they want. Dude really?

"The purpose is not to replace police and EMT, but to allow teachers, administrators, and other personnel on-site to stop school violence rapidly and render medical aid immediately. It is a well-established fact that faster response to school shootings and other violence results in fewer lives lost."

The only response "I" have for that paragraph is: "no shite Sherlock".

We, who aren't afraid of guns have been trying to pound this idea into the many snowflakes that are flying to their safe spaces instead of trying to find a fix. Like I said, if a perpetrator doesn't KNOW who is packing he'd think twice about getting himself killed.

No answers from the left, sad

(02-22-2018 10:35 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(02-22-2018 10:06 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(02-22-2018 09:22 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(02-22-2018 08:49 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(02-22-2018 08:46 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  A hall of mass confusion and an untrained, nervous teacher... I’m just not seeing it.

So any mass shooting? 99% of police never experience it. Best to let the killer do whatever he wants and everyone wait outside. How would a teacher be nervous? So again you have no solutions.

Experienced hunters get buck fever and miss when a nice deer appears... multiply that x’s 100 with a live shooter and mass chaos.

Anyone that thinks it is easy to hit a target with an handgun and has not done it?...needs to get educated. It is NOT easy and takes a LOT of practice to be proficient. I would agree generally that when you add the fog of war into it? Hitting a perp is not an easy task. It is though better than being unarmed and defenseless...especially if a teacher can take a defensive position behind a barricaded door and be drawn and ready.

So let perps do what they want. Dude really?

You leaped a giant chasm there Fly.

Just the possibility of an armed resistance is all that would be needed in some of these cases. But even if that is not case, more than one of these mass murders have been stopped by a good guy with a handgun.

(02-23-2018 07:38 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(02-22-2018 10:35 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(02-22-2018 10:06 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(02-22-2018 09:22 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(02-22-2018 08:49 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  So any mass shooting? 99% of police never experience it. Best to let the killer do whatever he wants and everyone wait outside. How would a teacher be nervous? So again you have no solutions.

Experienced hunters get buck fever and miss when a nice deer appears... multiply that x’s 100 with a live shooter and mass chaos.

Anyone that thinks it is easy to hit a target with an handgun and has not done it?...needs to get educated. It is NOT easy and takes a LOT of practice to be proficient. I would agree generally that when you add the fog of war into it? Hitting a perp is not an easy task. It is though better than being unarmed and defenseless...especially if a teacher can take a defensive position behind a barricaded door and be drawn and ready.

So let perps do what they want. Dude really?

You leaped a giant chasm there Fly.

Ho so?

(02-22-2018 10:10 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(02-22-2018 09:22 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(02-22-2018 08:49 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(02-22-2018 08:46 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(02-22-2018 08:21 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  How so?

A hall of mass confusion and an untrained, nervous teacher... I’m just not seeing it.

So any mass shooting? 99% of police never experience it. Best to let the killer do whatever he wants and everyone wait outside. How would a teacher be nervous? So again you have no solutions.

Experienced hunters get buck fever and miss when a nice deer appears... multiply that x’s 100 with a live shooter and mass chaos.

Using your line of thinking we should disarm our law enforcement and military as well. There's a lot of blue-on-blue incidents there as well.

Actually, it's not that much of a stretch. No, we shouldn't disarm them, but the vast majority of police officers have never fired their weapon in the line of duty. And likewise with the majority of our military. Outside of the special forces and those on the "front lines" most service men only train like once a year. And those are not likely anything other than stationery target practice.

Bottom line, arming teachers is a terrible idea. And hiring just any retired military personnel isn't much better. Especially when you factor in the costs.

Why Sending Armed Veterans to Guard Schools Would Be Ludicrous

(02-22-2018 11:11 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  No answers from the left, sad

Answers to what?

(02-23-2018 10:21 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(02-22-2018 10:10 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(02-22-2018 09:22 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(02-22-2018 08:49 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(02-22-2018 08:46 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  A hall of mass confusion and an untrained, nervous teacher... I’m just not seeing it.

So any mass shooting? 99% of police never experience it. Best to let the killer do whatever he wants and everyone wait outside. How would a teacher be nervous? So again you have no solutions.

Experienced hunters get buck fever and miss when a nice deer appears... multiply that x’s 100 with a live shooter and mass chaos.

Using your line of thinking we should disarm our law enforcement and military as well. There's a lot of blue-on-blue incidents there as well.

Actually, it's not that much of a stretch. No, we shouldn't disarm them, but the vast majority of police officers have never fired their weapon in the line of duty. And likewise with the majority of our military. Outside of the special forces and those on the "front lines" most service men only train like once a year. And those are not likely anything other than stationery target practice.

Bottom line, arming teachers is a terrible idea. And hiring just any retired military personnel isn't much better. Especially when you factor in the costs.

Why Sending Armed Veterans to Guard Schools Would Be Ludicrous

What’s ludicrous is the headline you posted.
It appears that the lefts answer is always the most radical.
Do you think because in your world something MAY not work we should go the most radical route and confiscate all law abiding citizens means of self defense? Well I hate to break it to you but that MAY not work either. The fact is most of the mass murderers in our own country did not use a gun of any kind. Did John Wayne Gasey use an AR15 to murder more kids than died in this shooting. No he did not. Did the 911 terrorist use a gun to murder 3500? No they did not. Was a gun used in Oklahoma City?
You see, it is hard for us on the constitutional libertarian side to join the leftist kneejerk reaction at every bad thing that happens in this country. With nearly 400,000,000 people, some stacked one atop each other on the coasts, it is certain you will have bad actors using whatever is at hand to cause mayhem.
The answer is not more gun laws. The answer is more protection against bad actors.

(02-23-2018 01:24 PM)SoMs Eagle Wrote:  

(02-23-2018 10:21 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(02-22-2018 10:10 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(02-22-2018 09:22 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(02-22-2018 08:49 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  So any mass shooting? 99% of police never experience it. Best to let the killer do whatever he wants and everyone wait outside. How would a teacher be nervous? So again you have no solutions.

Experienced hunters get buck fever and miss when a nice deer appears... multiply that x’s 100 with a live shooter and mass chaos.

Using your line of thinking we should disarm our law enforcement and military as well. There's a lot of blue-on-blue incidents there as well.

Actually, it's not that much of a stretch. No, we shouldn't disarm them, but the vast majority of police officers have never fired their weapon in the line of duty. And likewise with the majority of our military. Outside of the special forces and those on the "front lines" most service men only train like once a year. And those are not likely anything other than stationery target practice.

Bottom line, arming teachers is a terrible idea. And hiring just any retired military personnel isn't much better. Especially when you factor in the costs.

Why Sending Armed Veterans to Guard Schools Would Be Ludicrous

What’s ludicrous is the headline you posted.
It appears that the lefts answer is always the most radical.
Do you think because in your world something MAY not work we should go the most radical route and confiscate all law abiding citizens means of self defense? Well I hate to break it to you but that MAY not work either. The fact is most of the mass murderers in our own country did not use a gun of any kind. Did John Wayne Gasey use an AR15 to murder more kids than died in this shooting. No he did not. Did the 911 terrorist use a gun to murder 3500? No they did not. Was a gun used in Oklahoma City?
You see, it is hard for us on the constitutional libertarian side to join the leftist kneejerk reaction at every bad thing that happens in this country. With nearly 400,000,000 people, some stacked one atop each other on the coasts, it is certain you will have bad actors using whatever is at hand to cause mayhem.
The answer is not more gun laws. The answer is more protection against bad actors.

It's the opinion of a trained military veteran. You're certainly free to dismiss him.

Quote:I’m a former Army officer who spent nine years in military police and civil affairs units, including a combat deployment to Iraq where I lived on a small compound in one of the most violent cities and carried loaded weapons every waking minute because of the threats around me. I am also a parent who wants to protect my kids more than anything in this world. I understand the urge to send armed veterans like me to protect our kids from the scourge of gun violence that killed more Americans last year than all the combat in Iraq and Afghanistan since 9/11. And yet, because of my training and combat experience, I know that putting armed veterans in schools will make our children and society less safe, and at tremendous cost too.

Pardon me if I trust his opinion more than yours.

(02-23-2018 01:39 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(02-23-2018 01:24 PM)SoMs Eagle Wrote:  

(02-23-2018 10:21 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(02-22-2018 10:10 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(02-22-2018 09:22 PM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  Experienced hunters get buck fever and miss when a nice deer appears... multiply that x’s 100 with a live shooter and mass chaos.

Using your line of thinking we should disarm our law enforcement and military as well. There's a lot of blue-on-blue incidents there as well.

Actually, it's not that much of a stretch. No, we shouldn't disarm them, but the vast majority of police officers have never fired their weapon in the line of duty. And likewise with the majority of our military. Outside of the special forces and those on the "front lines" most service men only train like once a year. And those are not likely anything other than stationery target practice.

Bottom line, arming teachers is a terrible idea. And hiring just any retired military personnel isn't much better. Especially when you factor in the costs.

Why Sending Armed Veterans to Guard Schools Would Be Ludicrous

What’s ludicrous is the headline you posted.
It appears that the lefts answer is always the most radical.
Do you think because in your world something MAY not work we should go the most radical route and confiscate all law abiding citizens means of self defense? Well I hate to break it to you but that MAY not work either. The fact is most of the mass murderers in our own country did not use a gun of any kind. Did John Wayne Gasey use an AR15 to murder more kids than died in this shooting. No he did not. Did the 911 terrorist use a gun to murder 3500? No they did not. Was a gun used in Oklahoma City?
You see, it is hard for us on the constitutional libertarian side to join the leftist kneejerk reaction at every bad thing that happens in this country. With nearly 400,000,000 people, some stacked one atop each other on the coasts, it is certain you will have bad actors using whatever is at hand to cause mayhem.
The answer is not more gun laws. The answer is more protection against bad actors.

It's the opinion of a trained military veteran. You're certainly free to dismiss him.

Quote:I’m a former Army officer who spent nine years in military police and civil affairs units, including a combat deployment to Iraq where I lived on a small compound in one of the most violent cities and carried loaded weapons every waking minute because of the threats around me. I am also a parent who wants to protect my kids more than anything in this world. I understand the urge to send armed veterans like me to protect our kids from the scourge of gun violence that killed more Americans last year than all the combat in Iraq and Afghanistan since 9/11. And yet, because of my training and combat experience, I know that putting armed veterans in schools will make our children and society less safe, and at tremendous cost too.

Pardon me if I trust his opinion more than yours.

I would hate to point out to you that it is his opinion. I take it for what it’s worth.
I would venture to guess though that at the moment this monster was firing on those kids they would have welcomed a veteran or anyone else firing back. Common sense.

By Red's thinking if NK shoots a atomic missile towards the US then the US shouldn't shoot back because it might not work or we could miss and hit another country. Wow, what a troll.

(02-23-2018 01:49 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  By Red's thinking if NK shoots a atomic missile towards the US then the US shouldn't shoot back because it might not work or we could miss and hit another country. Wow, what a troll.

What he thinks is we shouldn’t have a weapon to fire back.