MAC at 12 teams lets the conference be very selective on expansion. No move is the best move until the opportunity comes.

(05-28-2023 01:32 AM)OhioBobcatJohn Wrote:  MAC at 12 teams lets the conference be very selective on expansion. No move is the best move until the opportunity comes.

100% agree with you @OhioBobcatJohn. Most people do not have a criteria or matrix for scoring a good candidate. Would hope most of yours are in common with ours* and assume replace the staying in the A10 as being an all sport member. Plus increasing MAC's value and not 100% financial, but can also be intrinsic value. Of course will add that you need win over the relationship person first, then win over the whole family, if possible. The following snippet is from my post on UMassHoops.com.

Everyone has their check boxes and most have a box for staying in the A10. Mine includes being in a conference that we can be successful as many of us are tired of losing. As the casual basketball fan is also sick of losing and home attendance numbers have dramatically suffered. Like to go to a stable conference that we can build rivalries. Be nice to share a conference with common attributes or fit. Mostly public universities that value academics, general attitudes are somewhat common. It would be nice to be geographically adjacent to us.

*Ours is the simple majority of UMass fans but not mine. Staying in the A10 is not in my criteria or a growing minority.

Lol long post but just taking a break from work.

In a way the MAC to me is that house/family in a lower middle class to perceived “questionable” neighborhood that while some surroundings a block or 2 away look bad the house is layed out. A hard working family left property or chosen for affordability but over time additions and stability you have all amenities, enclosed yard, deck etc. But again in the “hood”. As opposed to either the homeowner that gets a bit of a windfall and buys into these newer built up neighborhoods with housing developments that are nice. But the mini mansions built with shoddy shiny materials, crazy HMA groups, no street lights etc. You are left with a hefty mortgage and could lose your job and it be out of affordability in a moment or of course there are just the rich that own it all have no worry. The MAC’s needle has been about the same for decades. A regional league, “Little Brother” to mega conference. They honestly can stand pat either way. If chaos breaks loose up top those ones would not want anyone anyways. The only one imho would be Toledo, “Big” city and region but unless some big temptation the existing bus league, no disrespect, is powerful in that it is here and has stayed and I can see it staying as whatever FBS will be. You are where these other conferences, like AAC, or even ACC in ways, are afraid to be at even though it is about to that point. A “lower class” to the big boys, the difference your stability is second to none and great. You have Regional sense which is killing the “bigger” conferences. You can still bus a baseball/softball team away and circle back to campus. Not playing a questionable attended mid week baseball game 600 miles away and spending so much more on hotels/travel. Food logistics etc. The MAC is and has been a template. Good Product in a perceptional bad neighborhood. But amenities kept up in and around that house are still relevant. Relevant still being “FBS” no matter what form that takes.

As far as expansion I don’t think there are many ways you could go wrong. The only things I would avoid is another home for a far flung program, that is growing and you can tell has “greater” aspirations. This is what UCF was a few decades ago. The MAC did them a favor to help them with consistency with a schedule and footing. But saw a mile away they were never a fit and would not stay. Don’t give anyone like that home again. You’ll mess up your own schedule and perception. Not too many programs like that around though. I would have said Liberty, a lot closer but ultimately they have designs on bigger and will leave without care in a second. They want bigger than where they are now but joined them for the same reason UCF joined the MAC.

No to UCONN without a doubt the bell cow is Basketball and in a bigger way than UMASS. Also football once tasted “Power 5” football and were decent. They don’t want to take a perceived “Step back”. They would bounce in football in a second and in the process try to hold the MAC hostage with some crazy “pay us more” or “pay us a lot to play a basketball game” type deal wanting you bow to them like ND does to the ACC.

Yes to UMASS. Essentially the same as UCONN. But realistically their basketball glory was multiple decades ago but still their perceived bell cow nonetheless. I don’t think they want to go “backwards” for football to what would be FCS no matter what form that may take now. I would give less money or work it out reasonable way if not being all sports. But football a reasonable area of the country to travel and a program that would or could stay on par competitive and money wise. I could see them like anyone else better years better attendance, but nothing too far off what takes place now in the league.


EKU, another one mentioned a lot that may have interest. I would question taking them. What would make me have issue with them is I think neighborhood wise they fit with a Conference USA if they break into more regional divisions with a long term goal of joining lower Appalachian region Sun Belt the App States, Marshall etc. Just would use the MAC as a second or third choice when you are the ones that would be doing them a solid by giving them reasonable home after getting left in the cold.

Army, but not Navy. Like UCONN Navy has tasted a “bigger” time more recently. And I can’t see a move. But It seems Army, while greatly improved, still has a realization this is not the 40’s or 50’s. They are the Grunt men and women and I love them but with the type of service they probably are realistically perceptional the least “desirable” of the services pay and position wise. Never going to get the high level recruit. More close to FCS VMI/Citadel than MAC teams. But still a nice name and more than competitive vs. your teams. Built in audience most Saturdays in NY and a “partner” with a Buffalo or UMASS. Leave room for a couple OOC games and would make sense for them and competitive balance.

NDSU/YSU- NDSU plays teams out this way anyways. I do not see them having higher aspirations. They would be good staying the “Wolvering” that is relatively small but will make bears step back. Being Big fish in little pond. It would be an insult having that attitude coming into the MAC but that is what they would believe they are. It would be good games. A little travel but not too much more than they do already for them and at this point in time with their history would be instant brand name to the MAC. For YSU it is strictly a neutral pick but in a no “lose” sense. In a fascinating state like Ohio that has many “mid major” cities (70-150000) Towns/Regional cities albeit many close they all seem to have regional and territorial pride. Each with their own news channels, Identities etc. More revenue sharing aside the Pen’s have enough of their own following and again any given decent weather Saturday most likely lively attendance vs. probably against Ohio teams easily traveled on the highways. Easy roadtrip, see a game, visit and party with frat, and be home by Sunday evening to “study”. The “extra” money generated by local economy interest help make up for rev sharing.

Last, and my pipe dream in multiple ways. A team in the greater Pittsburgh area steps it up. Going back. Only if my Alma Mater did not have to stay with their “Brothers and Sisters” in the PASSHE my 12,000 strong in the early 2000’s would have been at least FCS, or not unlike what this new thing will look like again in ways that blurred line of University Division (FCS mid to higher/FBS higher to mid) before 1979 1A and 1AA split. IUP is not only about 8500 students and 2nd to third best football team in mid level PSAC d2 :/. In the 60’s some wanted them to move up in sports and some talk was rehashed in the late 90’s. but again the collective and economic realities with so many state schools has put that type of thing on hold permanently. Lol but would have loved to had some type of upgraded football stadium and seen a true D1 game. Even if Pitt was an hour away and PSU about 1 ½ hours away. We do have Duquesne and RMU. Duquesne schedule has ramped up. Many FBS opponents as of late. And one notch under their belt, sorry Bobcats. They essentially would be the same as UMASS, no to basketball but if they could place football and some other sports in MAC. They are in a new “footprint” right next door. But while football is ramping up the facilities are so bad they are taking “money” game but I see no designs on improving on their 2500 gem of a stadium. The Travel would be reasonable but capital improvement ain’ happening. RMU also fits the FCS bill. They have actually stepped up in FCS class unlike the Dukes. They play in a “full scholarship” Football division now and a few decent facilities. But Football ones still lacking but expandable. That would be years down the road if ever. But would love a western , or another PA team back in the MAC.

(05-20-2023 02:29 PM)Steve1981 Wrote:  

(05-20-2023 02:00 PM)thanksjim Wrote:  Let me know when this expansion happens....

It will be AI generated, not by humans.

(Directional) AIU Robots is considering joining the MAC I hear

To Big Ike's point: I don't see the MAC as a slum. It is what it is: A throwback, old school regional football conference. In a world of molecular gastronomy and trendy fusion (New Jersey and LA in the same conference, anyone?), the MAC is like a small, family-owned steakhouse that has a great menu and hasn't changed hardly at all in 50 years. This place will never win a Michelin star (in part because Michelin doesn't visit Michigan and Ohio, anyway!). But it serves good food, and the people there are super friendly, especially when stars like Lee Corso or Lou Holtz stop by once in a while to see how the old neighborhood is doing.

As far as expansion: If the MAC were to expand, it should grow the footprint to add more television sets but not too much as to drive up travel costs for current members. It should also seek out universities that can raise the bar academically or athletically. This might mean risking a short-term relationship, and that might be okay. (I was okay with the Central Florida affiliation, and I'd do something that again if the right opportunity came along. I know others disagree.)

A university in Pittsburgh would be ideal for the MAC, especially if it raises the bar academically or athletically. Unfortunately, Pitt already has a home! And I don't see Duquesne or Robert Morris stepping up really fitting that bill. (But who knows?)

I still think a couple of Dakota schools would be great. It would be a stretch geographically, and maybe the numbers just wouldn't work. (Sioux Falls and Fargo aren't big markets.) But they are flagships who could win the MAC right out of the gate in football, but still fit in in terms of size and academic reputation.

We are fine at 12 unless a really great opportunity comes along.

“To Big Ike's point: I don't see the MAC as a slum. It is what it is: A throwback, old school regional football conference. In a world of molecular gastronomy and trendy fusion (New Jersey and LA in the same conference, anyone?), the MAC is like a small, family-owned steakhouse that has a great menu and hasn't changed hardly at all in 50 years. This place will never win a Michelin star (in part because Michelin doesn't visit Michigan and Ohio, anyway!). But it serves good food, and the people there are super friendly, especially when stars like Lee Corso or Lou Holtz stop by once in a while to see how the old neighborhood is doing.”

Thanks Brother I like and understand that analogy! sort of pay a fraction of the price for wonderful "Mom and Pop" stalwarts, many in greater Pittsburgh area, taste good, your full and in most cases can still afford desert. Compared to that "Salt BAE" tic toc guy I have seen. It looks good but your selling alot for something just simply not attainable every week. And in the end you can or are perfectly satisfied with the cut of meat and season of a Steak that will never or rarely make national headlines

"As far as expansion: If the MAC were to expand, it should grow the footprint to add more television sets but not too much as to drive up travel costs for current members. It should also seek out universities that can raise the bar academically or athletically. This might mean risking a short-term relationship, and that might be okay. (I was okay with the Central Florida affiliation, and I'd do something that again if the right opportunity came along. I know others disagree."

Just assuming "2" who would fit that bill the most/best?


"A university in Pittsburgh would be ideal for the MAC, especially if it raises the bar academically or athletically. Unfortunately, Pitt already has a home! And I don't see Duquesne or Robert Morris stepping up really fitting that bill. (But who knows?)"

It is odd in that RMU if any is trying to Build up Athletically and continued Growth academically. They are a fairly new University. Ranking on par with many MAC schools overall I would say. Duquesne probably would be on the higher end academically. But unless they get the Rooney's to help with something facility wise or overall. they are satisfied where they are at. It seems with the up scheduling there is smoke if not a little fire. But that aside their self perceived academic status, "we don't need to spend/not important enough" and the same as Pitt's problem it is a landlocked university with no room really for anything on Campus or extensive room for facility upgrades. Overall while a speck of possibility it would be RMU. Room to grow, showing they are stepping up in Schollies and conference. And alot of room in what essentially is old airport space. Friends played for them when starting program in 1995-96. Since then have moved from local high school stadium to thier own. Campus has grown and more Majors/Schools introduced. Would be a real nice fit in the Western side of Pittsburgh abutted against Eastern Ohio.

"I still think a couple of Dakota schools would be great. It would be a stretch geographically, and maybe the numbers just wouldn't work. (Sioux Falls and Fargo aren't big markets.) But they are flagships who could win the MAC right out of the gate in football, but still fit in in terms of size and academic reputation.

We are fine at 12 unless a really great opportunity comes along.”

I would like 14 teams. In Fact this would probably be a great move taking each States flasegship. You have on par academics for the most part. Built in Travel Partner. 2 more teams added in a simple manner. If not them would take, and again besides any in PA ready quite yet, I would take UMass and still take YSU. just don't see how YSU absolutely hurts if only one of the others, no matter who, to join as opposed to 2. I.E. NDSU and SDSU did not want to join.

(06-01-2023 11:55 AM)Big Ike Wrote:  "As far as expansion: If the MAC were to expand, it should grow the footprint to add more television sets but not too much as to drive up travel costs for current members. It should also seek out universities that can raise the bar academically or athletically. This might mean risking a short-term relationship, and that might be okay. (I was okay with the Central Florida affiliation, and I'd do something that again if the right opportunity came along. I know others disagree."

Just assuming "2" who would fit that bill the most/best?

A year ago, the MAC came very close to adding Western Kentucky and Middle Tennessee, so perhaps that's the answer. I personally was soft on Middle Tennessee. I felt like we could do a bit better. But they were a logical rival and travel partner for Western Kentucky.

I could see a logic to adding UMass and either UConn (in a football-only arrangement) or Stony Brook (if all sports). Lots of TV sets out that way, and it would give Buffalo eastern rivals. But neither of these schools are really drivable, Stony Brook isn't ready, and UMass's interest appears to be football only.

Or, looking west, two Dakota schools may be best. They would probably bring more academic and athletic prestige than any of the other Missouri Valley schools. They have good fan bases. It would be fun. The downside is the distance and the lack of TV sets out that way.

All that said, standing pat right now might be the best move of all. I'm not of the mind that the MAC should hurry up and do something just for the sake of doing it.

My latest post on UMassHoops.

Look guys, I'm pro basketball and all UMass sports, just not pro A10. The slide has happened, 1 bid and not a NCAA win in many years. We hear nothing about the media contract. It was 5M in 2012 and is up this year after a 3 year extension. There has been inflation over 11 years and we are blotted to 15 members, why? How about taking the opposite approach instead of knocking the MAC, how can we make it better. There are good bones there in every sport. Women's basketball is very competitive and men's has teams like Buffalo, Akron, Ohio, Toledo etc. Let's see how the A10 does with it's media contract and perhaps instead of reacting, we take the driver's seat. We propose to the MAC and networks a partner that make sense for us. As Delaware, Stony Brook, or Rhode Island. Rhody is my favorite, but not the MAC's but let's drive the bus and see about making the MAC better. Rhode Island has a solid history of basketball, good in Football and a lot closer to Gillette they could use, and a nice rival.

Meade Football replacement, which needs approval perhaps in 2 weeks, for 2024. URI thread There is a delay as my posts require moderator approval on https://keaneyblue.com/viewforum.php?f=34


Not worthy of a separate post but did add a realignment discussion thread on the Massachusetts Fight board on 247sports.com
https://247sports.com/college/massachuse...41/?page=1

Any other A-10 schools looking to move up to FBS in football. Richmond, Duquesne, Rhode Island with UMass would be a nice quad to add.

(05-27-2023 08:13 AM)Steve1981 Wrote:  Know Army has turned down other conferences, BUT. Has the MAC ever investigated a ND type affiliation with Army. This way they'd have most of their schedule to play down south. Has this style affiliation ever been offered or discussed by MAC officials?

Steve, yes, the MAC talked with both Army West Point and Navy (for football-only) in the mid-90s when NIU, Marshall and Buffalo were added. Of primary concern for the academies at that time was the scheduling of the Army-Navy game.

(06-03-2023 07:59 AM)BeatWestern! Wrote:  

(05-27-2023 08:13 AM)Steve1981 Wrote:  Know Army has turned down other conferences, BUT. Has the MAC ever investigated a ND type affiliation with Army. This way they'd have most of their schedule to play down south. Has this style affiliation ever been offered or discussed by MAC officials?

Steve, yes, the MAC talked with both Army West Point and Navy (for football-only) in the mid-90s when NIU, Marshall and Buffalo were added. Of primary concern for the academies at that time was the scheduling of the Army-Navy game.

The primary concern with Army'-Navy game is a non issue with Navy in the AAC, but a long shot.

Want UMass to be part of the MAC and think even with a disappointing A10 media contract and performance, our administration would need a true rival and A10 member to go all sports. Well my idea is not immediate, need to see if URI would consider FBS and the MAC and Jon Steinbrecher in company would even consider it. We'd have to produce this year and show positive steps.

After thousands of posts, decided this is as good as any other possibility. Massachusetts and Rhode Island campuses are as close or closer than WKU and MTSU. URI is closer to the population heart of New England and has the Providence and we have the Springfield market. The synergies of use can entice some Boston media coverage as well.

Thorr Bjorn played football at UMass and was our acting AD before becoming URI AD. So early conversations between us and URI are possible, but don't think it can happen without the MAC contacting them about an interest. So here I am, looking for a way to have my UMass team join the MAC.

(06-04-2023 10:44 AM)Steve1981 Wrote:  

(06-03-2023 07:59 AM)BeatWestern! Wrote:  

(05-27-2023 08:13 AM)Steve1981 Wrote:  Know Army has turned down other conferences, BUT. Has the MAC ever investigated a ND type affiliation with Army. This way they'd have most of their schedule to play down south. Has this style affiliation ever been offered or discussed by MAC officials?

Steve, yes, the MAC talked with both Army West Point and Navy (for football-only) in the mid-90s when NIU, Marshall and Buffalo were added. Of primary concern for the academies at that time was the scheduling of the Army-Navy game.

The primary concern with Army'-Navy game is a non issue with Navy in the AAC, but a long shot.

Want UMass to be part of the MAC and think even with a disappointing A10 media contract and performance, our administration would need a true rival and A10 member to go all sports. Well my idea is not immediate, need to see if URI would consider FBS and the MAC and Jon Steinbrecher in company would even consider it. We'd have to produce this year and show positive steps.

After thousands of posts, decided this is as good as any other possibility. Massachusetts and Rhode Island campuses are as close or closer than WKU and MTSU. URI is closer to the population heart of New England and has the Providence and we have the Springfield market. The synergies of use can entice some Boston media coverage as well.

Thorr Bjorn played football at UMass and was our acting AD before becoming URI AD. So early conversations between us and URI are possible, but don't think it can happen without the MAC contacting them about an interest. So here I am, looking for a way to have my UMass team join the MAC.

Yikes some war and peace length posts here. Please sirs my attention span is not where it used to be keep it short!

(06-02-2023 11:54 PM)OhioBobcatJohn Wrote:  Any other A-10 schools looking to move up to FBS in football. Richmond, Duquesne, Rhode Island with UMass would be a nice quad to add.

Not sure about this site, but only URI is in the top 75 in revenue and comes in at #7, Delaware St #45, and Stony Brook #3.

Highest Revenue by FCS teams in 22-23 List

Do appreciate the support regarding another A10 partner OhioBobcatJohn. My gut guess for URI going FBS is very low 10% and higher for Stony Brook at 40% anytime before 2027.

(06-14-2023 03:33 PM)Steve1981 Wrote:  

(06-02-2023 11:54 PM)OhioBobcatJohn Wrote:  Any other A-10 schools looking to move up to FBS in football. Richmond, Duquesne, Rhode Island with UMass would be a nice quad to add.

Not sure about this site, but only URI is in the top 75 in revenue and comes in at #7, Delaware St #45, and Stony Brook #3.

Highest Revenue by FCS teams in 22-23 List

Do appreciate the support regarding another A10 partner OhioBobcatJohn. My gut guess for URI going FBS is very low 10% and higher for Stony Brook at 40% anytime before 2027.

Rhode Island would have a ton of ground to make up in football. They play in a 6,555-seat stadium and they haven't made the FCS playoffs since 1985. That said, Providence is a decent-sized market. In theory, maybe something could be built there, I guess.

CAA schools Towson, Delaware, William & Mary would be great starting place. East coast media markets and very good academics and very much like the MAC. Albany and Stony Brook together would give the MAC 3 NY state schools. Rhode Island, Maine and New Hampshire with UMass. Lots of attractive options for the MAC. MAC probably has a list, but waiting on these schools getting facilities upgraded to make the jump. What would ESPN value these markets? TV dollars would need to be there to make it worth it.

(06-15-2023 02:11 AM)OhioBobcatJohn Wrote:  CAA schools Towson, Delaware, William & Mary would be great starting place. East coast media markets and very good academics and very much like the MAC. Albany and Stony Brook together would give the MAC 3 NY state schools. Rhode Island, Maine and New Hampshire with UMass. Lots of attractive options for the MAC. MAC probably has a list, but waiting on these schools getting facilities upgraded to make the jump. What would ESPN value these markets? TV dollars would need to be there to make it worth it.

For years heard from people thinking Stony Brook would go FBS, but never gave it a serious consideration. Their best attendance was from the 2010's with 3 games over 12k.

Post part of this wiki text, as the Bull fans will not appreciate that they are the other New York Flagship with enrollment of 25k and 470.8M endowment.

Quote:Stony Brook University (SBU), officially the State University of New York at Stony Brook, is a public research university in Stony Brook, New York. Along with the University at Buffalo, it is one of the State University of New York system's two flagship institutions.[9][10] Its campus consists of 213 buildings on over 1,454 acres (588 hectares) of land in Suffolk County and it is the largest public university (by area) in the state of New York.[11]

One of Two NY Flagship Insititutions

Let the fun begin again!

Shamelessly "borrowed" from the Realignment forum.

"CUSA Distributions Before Teams Leave to new conf
$8,317,221 - MIDDLE TENNESSEE STATE UNIVERSITY
$4,953,227 - WESTERN KENTUCKY UNIVERSITY
$4,559,922 - UNIVERSITY OF TEXAS AT EL PASO
$4,249,077 - FLORIDA INTERNATIONAL UNIVERSITY
$4,042,185 - LOUISIANA TECH UNIVERSITY
$1,311,454 - MARSHALL UNIVERSITY
$915,095 - UNIVERSITY OF ALABAMA AT BIRMINGHAM
$830,243 - OLD DOMINION UNIVERSITY
$740,311 - UNIVERSITY OF TEXAS AT SAN ANTONIO
$637,179 - UNIVERSITY OF NORTH TEXAS
$482,476 - FLORIDA ATLANTIC UNIVERSITY
$418,930 - UNC CHARLOTTE
$422,482 - UNIVERSITY OF SOUTHERN MISSISSIPPI
$332,878 - RICE UNIVERSITY

Link
https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofi...00220/full"

It would appear that MTSU had over 8 million reasons not to leave for the MAC... Not entirely sure how they ended up with a double share unless the league agreed to give them an advance on future distributions or something like that.

freshtop, can you give us the 10,000 feet view of this uneven distribution ranging from Rice 323k to Middle Tenn 8.317M

(06-19-2023 12:39 PM)Steve1981 Wrote:  freshtop, can you give us the 10,000 feet view of this uneven distribution ranging from Rice 323k to Middle Tenn 8.317M

The schools that left for other conferences probably have much lower net payouts either because:
-- They spent less time in the conference, thus had less time to qualify for payouts.
-- These are net payouts that reflect a deduction for exit fees imposed on departing schools.

The big payouts to the five remaining schools -- Louisiana Tech, Florida International, Texas-El Paso, Western Kentucky, and Middle Tennessee -- might be fattened by the exit fees left behind by the other schools.

The puzzling aspect of this is, as Freshtop notes, the fact that Middle Tennessee received $3 million more than anyone else. It would be interesting to learn why that was.