(06-22-2023 11:15 AM)bryanw1995 Wrote: (06-22-2023 09:37 AM)ballantyneapp Wrote: (06-22-2023 07:14 AM)esayem Wrote: (06-21-2023 04:42 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote: (06-21-2023 03:47 PM)XLance Wrote: The UNC "system" and it's institutions.
https://www.northcarolina.edu/institutions/
That's a lot of schools. Is UNC going to try to get ECU and UNC Charlotte in, too? From reading what a lot of you have said and written on this topic, NC State's biggest selling point is their football, which is obviously very important. East Carolina pulled 40k fans per game last season despite their 8-5 record and 4-4 Conference record in a g5...I wonder how much more football enthusiasm they'd get if they were in the ACC instead of the AAC. Their average SAT of 1105 is almost as high as Texas Tech's. It's 100 points higher than Fresno St's.
I think that UNC should be tied to both ECU and NC St in all future Athletics Conference plans. They are in the same system after all, and the relative worth of ECU compared with that of NC St would be pretty close if they spent a decade or 2 together. If UNC does manage to extricate themselves from the others, just tax them down to what they would have made in the neutered ACC, splitting that money evenly amongst all the other System Schools. It's only fair.
ECU was a teachers college and started quite behind Carolina and State, but it has grown impressively. I know you aren't being serious, but just figured I'd interject some reality into your approach here. A football round robin of Carolina-State-ECU would probably ensure sell outs at every stadium.
On that note, maybe Texas A&M-Commerce should be elevated to the SEC?
If UNC and/or NCSt breaks up Tobacco Road, i'm all for Wake-App-ECU hell even UNCC NC football alliance.
We already tried that with the SWC, it didn't work very well. All of the programs are stronger in 1s or 2s, stratified into various conferences. Say, like UNC in the SEC, NC St in the ACC, call up ECU to the ACC, etc etc. Then, you never know what happens down the road. We tried to leave UH and TCU behind 25 years ago, and their programs are MUCH stronger today than they would have been if they'd gotten to tag along. And no Teximony required.
This is a compilation post regarding many idiotic points in this thread and others:
1. UNC will continue to play football at the highest level. It doesn't mean that they will intentionally spend to compete at the highest level. State Flagship schools will suffer the ignominy of failing to appear to be with other peer State Flagship schools as it diminishes their appearance to enrollees, unless they decide to and can go Ivy.
2. I have no doubt that the University System of North Carolina will see to protect both of its major state schools. That doesn't mean however that they both wind up in the same conference, though no doubt that will be the preference. What it does mean is that both will make the new upper tier when that occurs.
3. The insistence of Delaware on becoming FBS is precisely why we will have a new upper tier. Nothing against Delaware as they are trying to improved themselves, but 137 in FBS, or whatever the number is now, is absurd. The FBS as we know it spends at 3 distinctly different investment levels, probably more, and upper tier and mid tier schools need their own tiers. Just like with High School teams it isn't even healthy for the players to have 1A schools playing 4 or 5A schools. The talent pool, meaning size and speed, simply isn't the same.
4. Money and status will continue to fuel consolidation, but not for the apparent reasons. A downturn in enrollment is expected demographically. The separation is about larger and longer established schools seeking an advantage for capturing their share of fewer enrollees. It's about seeking a more visible, desirable, and a more easily survivable position. This is why Texas and A&M have separated finally from a swath of other state schools. This is why North Carolina and N.C. State will do the same and why the University System will permit it. The more money those two schools can make by any source, including athletics, the more resources the University System has to share with smaller state schools. U.C.L.A. had to have this in mind when separating from the other California schools. U.S.C. as one of the largest privates likely considered it as well. Notre Dame and USC have separated themselves uniquely from the profile of most private colleges and universities. I'm sure Stanford will do the same and Duke would like to. Northwestern is doing what it takes to stay in that realm. Will Vanderbilt?
5. Because of all of this as a P2 forms most Flagship State Universities will seek participation. A third P conference will make this transition more appealing. It will solve some local political problems and permit the untethering of programs to occur with less overall fear within each state system.
You can rank programs and look at on field success, but regardless of wins and losses large state schools will bust a gut to fit into one of the two, and settle on the third.
Segregation by payout will be the reward for the top brands, and inclusion in the tier the reward of the others. But in the end the FBS will at best be halved by the creation of a new upper tier, and at worst (for board thinking) that new upper tier will represent a third of the current members. Sports is merely the excuse and auspices under which the separation will occur. In reality it is about preparing for downsizing and streamlining higher education.
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NC state sen. does not think UNC would be allowed to leave the ACC if NCSU can't
