(03-11-2024 08:48 AM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(03-10-2024 10:08 PM)BinghamptonNed Wrote:  Team was 15-2 when Penny let Brown back on the team--- coincidence ? Maybe...


One thing is for sure Brown is NOT capable of playing AAC level basketball. His impact on the team spiraling out of control is debatable but playing him in competitive games shows Penny would rather play every player than win games.

I think they were actually 15-3. He came back just before the 1/21 Tulane game.
I guess a more interesting way to frame it is, they were 10-1 during his absence.
But he's only averaging 6 mins per game since he's been back, and that is almost always just to give someone a breather or when one of the bigs is in foul trouble.
His minutes haven't even gone up much since Malco has been out.

We only had one loss when Brown went out. He missed the ole Miss game

(03-11-2024 12:05 PM)Eagleonpar Wrote:  

(03-11-2024 08:48 AM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(03-10-2024 10:08 PM)BinghamptonNed Wrote:  Team was 15-2 when Penny let Brown back on the team--- coincidence ? Maybe...


One thing is for sure Brown is NOT capable of playing AAC level basketball. His impact on the team spiraling out of control is debatable but playing him in competitive games shows Penny would rather play every player than win games.

I think they were actually 15-3. He came back just before the 1/21 Tulane game.
I guess a more interesting way to frame it is, they were 10-1 during his absence.
But he's only averaging 6 mins per game since he's been back, and that is almost always just to give someone a breather or when one of the bigs is in foul trouble.
His minutes haven't even gone up much since Malco has been out.

We only had one loss when Brown went out. He missed the ole Miss game

I wish he had missed the Ole Miss game.

(03-11-2024 12:05 PM)Eagleonpar Wrote:  

(03-11-2024 08:48 AM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(03-10-2024 10:08 PM)BinghamptonNed Wrote:  Team was 15-2 when Penny let Brown back on the team--- coincidence ? Maybe...


One thing is for sure Brown is NOT capable of playing AAC level basketball. His impact on the team spiraling out of control is debatable but playing him in competitive games shows Penny would rather play every player than win games.

I think they were actually 15-3. He came back just before the 1/21 Tulane game.
I guess a more interesting way to frame it is, they were 10-1 during his absence.
But he's only averaging 6 mins per game since he's been back, and that is almost always just to give someone a breather or when one of the bigs is in foul trouble.
His minutes haven't even gone up much since Malco has been out.

We only had one loss when Brown went out. He missed the ole Miss game

Not sure if you're being sarcastic, but he did get minutes at Old Miss.
We were 5-2 when he left.
Then 10-1 while he was out.
Now 7-6 with him back.
Don't know if that tells the whole story, but it doesn't look good.

Our guys can't, or won't play defense.

No enforcer in the middle

No guard that can disrupt the other team's point guard.

We don't have that one stopper that usually gets assigned the other teams' best shooter.

That might be on Penny for scheme or just not getting guys who care about playing defense. I would have given up on man to man during the losing streak.

(03-11-2024 04:25 PM)Tiger46 Wrote:  Our guys can't, or won't play defense.

No enforcer in the middle

No guard that can disrupt the other team's point guard.

We don't have that one stopper that usually gets assigned the other teams' best shooter.

That might be on Penny for scheme or just not getting guys who care about playing defense. I would have given up on man to man during the losing streak.

Right.

When this team is down they try to comeback by playing harder offensively. Someone just tries to will them back with one on one play (usually Jones)

The only way this team turns up thr heat defensively is with the press.

One on one play and pressing have unreliable results.

(03-11-2024 11:43 AM)SouthernBoiNOLA Wrote:  Reasons why.....
No leadership,
Defense,
Defense,
Defense

I didn't realize it at the time, but Caleb going down ended any shot we had at reaching our potential. He was the leader of the team. Our other top guys are not "leaders". They are not the kind of players that will pull another player to the side and get on them about their play. None of them outside of Caleb want to play D (Quinerly, Walton, or either just don't have the Defensive instinct (Jourdain, Jones, Tomlin).

Lack of defense, agree. But lack of defense is in part due to the heavy help style Penny insists on playing. These players aren't capable of playing Penny's desired style. At best playing a straight up, tight man D with limited switching (as was played for much of the UAB 2nd half) is the best defense for this team.

But whatever the issues, there is no excuse for losing 7 conference games in this conference with this talent.

(03-11-2024 04:25 PM)Tiger46 Wrote:  Our guys can't, or won't play defense.

No enforcer in the middle

No guard that can disrupt the other team's point guard.

We don't have that one stopper that usually gets assigned the other teams' best shooter.

That might be on Penny for scheme or just not getting guys who care about playing defense. I would have given up on man to man during the losing streak.

Jourdain has been solid on D. He did a great job vs the FAU Russian. Jourdain does many things that aren't on the stat sheet. Often, I'm not sure he gets recognition for what he does.

Would be nice to have a PG that grinded defensively.

Rim protector: Losing Dandridge hurts - doesn't seem that he's coming back. Jordan Brown aint it. Tomlin is a welcomed addition. He's just better skilled at 4. Jordain is also better suited at 4. Hard to find bigs at this level of basketball. We have several, but no one like we've had in the past - Jalen Duren, Moussa Cisse, Precious type....

We've been spoiled with GREAT defense since Penny took over. This team isn't as strong as others we've had. And that seems to be effort. It's absolutely on Penny to motivate. Though I sympathize trying to get to know and manage kids in such a short time frame, but that seems to be the norm in 2024 (transfer portal, NIL).

(03-10-2024 11:04 AM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(03-09-2024 02:11 PM)BIGDTiger Wrote:  This season Penny seemed to lose his defensive identity as a coach. Our horrible perimeter defense was easy to dissect. Penny coaches a heavy help man defense. It’s too easy to drive in and kick out to the open perimeter. The constant overselling on traps 25 feet from the basket is too easy for an average point guard to beat.

Next, the team was rolling once Brown went out. Even though Tomlin has played big the last couple of weeks, trying to add such a player of his caliber was bound to interrupt the amazing team chemistry that we were seeing.

From top 10 and a 2 seed to completely out.

Penny is still too stubborn about his random substitutions. He is a product of Larry Finch. I haven’t been this frustrated from watching Tiger basketball since the Larry Finch days. Where we lose games because we consistently beat ourselves. Erratic consistency with our guards. Up and down based off of the opponent. One game looking like a final four contender and the next game can’t even beat Rice.

It screams Larry Finch. It screams no end in site. I have defended Penny and reserved judgement for 6 years now. It’s time to move on and it’s time for Penny to accept it. He has had just as much if not more talent to work with than any coach that has ever walked our sidelines.

I am not a Penny hater. I have defended him. No one can accuse me of such. But Tiger basketball can and should do better in what is probably the worst conference we have ever played in. 7 losses in this conference is unacceptable and not one coach not named Penny Hardaway would make it past this season.

Penny actually warned us in the preseason that this team would not be as good defensively and would need to outscore teams. So he saw it once practice started.

But I gotta ask...You weren't this frustrated during that 4 year period of Pastner's last 2 seasons + Tubby? I certainly was more frustrated then and trending apathetic.

I don't think open floor defense hurt the Tigers as much as getting beat on the boards on both ends of the floor. They have had a ton of steals. Rebounds equal number of possessions.
The Tigers were long enough but more than likely out of position to rebound and lack the toughness to get in there and bang for rebounds. I always reflect back to former Tiger Omar Sneed who was about 6'4" but man could he rebound and stick the ball back in the hole. Dane Bradshaw from Tenn could barely lift his arms above his head but could flat out rebound.
David Jones is 6'6'' and is the Tigers leading rebounder. Joe Jackson would often out rebound a larger team mate. Why? Team mate was 265 lbs. Joe Jackson was 165. If the Tigers were out rebounding opponents by 7-8 a game things would have been different IMO.

Those things were exactly why I chose Antonio Anderson for my user name on this forum.
Only Tiger player EVER to have 1000+ pts. 500+ rebs and 500+ assists in a season. Toughness.

(03-12-2024 11:22 AM)Antonio5fan Wrote:  Those things were exactly why I chose Antonio Anderson for my user name on this forum.
Only Tiger player EVER to have 1000+ pts. 500+ rebs and 500+ assists in a season. Toughness.

You meant in his career, not in a season…

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/pla...son-1.html

(03-11-2024 09:59 PM)Atlanta Wrote:  

(03-11-2024 11:43 AM)SouthernBoiNOLA Wrote:  Reasons why.....
No leadership,
Defense,
Defense,
Defense

I didn't realize it at the time, but Caleb going down ended any shot we had at reaching our potential. He was the leader of the team. Our other top guys are not "leaders". They are not the kind of players that will pull another player to the side and get on them about their play. None of them outside of Caleb want to play D (Quinerly, Walton, or either just don't have the Defensive instinct (Jourdain, Jones, Tomlin).

Lack of defense, agree. But lack of defense is in part due to the heavy help style Penny insists on playing. These players aren't capable of playing Penny's desired style. At best playing a straight up, tight man D with limited switching (as was played for much of the UAB 2nd half) is the best defense for this team.

But whatever the issues, there is no excuse for losing 7 conference games in this conference with this talent.

It's also disappointing to me seeing Houston, who we would battle with, going to the Big 12 and winning the regular season conference title in arguably the best basketball conference. While we finish 5th in a conference that's weaker than before.

(03-11-2024 04:25 PM)Tiger46 Wrote:  Our guys can't, or won't play defense.

No enforcer in the middle

No guard that can disrupt the other team's point guard.

We don't have that one stopper that usually gets assigned the other teams' best shooter.

That might be on Penny for scheme or just not getting guys who care about playing defense. I would have given up on man to man during the losing streak.

Issue is our two best offense players either (a) dont have the lateral quickness to play defense at this level(Jones), or (b) don't have 40 minutes of focus and toughness in the them(Quinerly). The rest of the starters(Walton, Tomlin, and Jourdain) are average(Walton) to above average(Tomlin and Jourdain) defenders but they are always put in bad situations by Quinerly and Jones.

It also doesnt help that the 1st man on the bench doesnt have the physical or mental quickness to play at this level(Jayden).

M

(03-12-2024 11:37 AM)aTxTIGER Wrote:  

(03-11-2024 04:25 PM)Tiger46 Wrote:  Our guys can't, or won't play defense.

No enforcer in the middle

No guard that can disrupt the other team's point guard.

We don't have that one stopper that usually gets assigned the other teams' best shooter.

That might be on Penny for scheme or just not getting guys who care about playing defense. I would have given up on man to man during the losing streak.

Issue is our two best offense players either (a) dont have the lateral quickness to play defense at this level(Jones), or (b) don't have 40 minutes of focus and toughness in the them(Quinerly). The rest of the starters(Walton, Tomlin, and Jourdain) are average(Walton) to above average(Tomlin and Jourdain) defenders but they are always put in bad situations by Quinerly and Jones.

It also doesnt help that the 1st man on the bench doesnt have the physical or mental quickness to play at this level(Jayden).

M

I dont think Quinerly is anywhere close to the offensive player Tomlin is. Ultimately I think Tomlin is probably the best NBA prospect on the team. Its a shame Penny couldnt integrate the chemistry better for him.

I love Penny. I love his desire to return the program to relevance. I love his effort in trying to do so. However, I do not think it is in the best interest of the University, the City, or Penny for this professional relationship to continue. If Penny doesn't recognize this, it is going to end ugly. And if the University doesn't take its time this go-around and try to make the right hire, Tiger basketball is done. NIL, spoiled kids getting to transfer on demand, and conference realignment, combined with the University's inability to make any good hire not named Calipari since Dana Kirk, is about to kill the sport and the team that brought me into sports at all. This is so sad. Our fan base deserves better.

Here’s your termination letter.

Penny's efforts to return the program to relevance have not resulted in significant improvements or success on the court, it’s time for the University to reconsider the continuation of the professional relationship.

Penny's vision and goals for the program are more about Penny than the University itself and they do not align with the strategic direction and aspirations of the University, it may be challenging to let him go, but it will be more difficult to sustain a productive working relationship under the current circumstances.

The financial resources invested in Penny's tenure as the coach have not yielded the desired return on investment and the program is facing financial constraints.

A significant portion of the fan base is expressing dissatisfaction with Penny's coaching style, leadership, & performance. This should put pressure on the University to make a change.

The program's overall health and reputation are at risk and it is not keeping up with the evolving landscape of college basketball.

(03-12-2024 11:37 AM)Alanda Wrote:  

(03-11-2024 09:59 PM)Atlanta Wrote:  

(03-11-2024 11:43 AM)SouthernBoiNOLA Wrote:  Reasons why.....
No leadership,
Defense,
Defense,
Defense

I didn't realize it at the time, but Caleb going down ended any shot we had at reaching our potential. He was the leader of the team. Our other top guys are not "leaders". They are not the kind of players that will pull another player to the side and get on them about their play. None of them outside of Caleb want to play D (Quinerly, Walton, or either just don't have the Defensive instinct (Jourdain, Jones, Tomlin).

Lack of defense, agree. But lack of defense is in part due to the heavy help style Penny insists on playing. These players aren't capable of playing Penny's desired style. At best playing a straight up, tight man D with limited switching (as was played for much of the UAB 2nd half) is the best defense for this team.

But whatever the issues, there is no excuse for losing 7 conference games in this conference with this talent.

It's also disappointing to me seeing Houston, who we would battle with, going to the Big 12 and winning the regular season conference title in arguably the best basketball conference. While we finish 5th in a conference that's weaker than before.

Kelvin Sampson > Penny Hardaway. Tragically, it's that simple.

This is part of an article I just read where Penny said there was no way he'd accept an NIT invitation.

Hardaway said that next season he will be harder on players who don’t live up to his standard and will put a greater emphasis on defense and rebounding when he builds his roster. This season’s additions through the transfer portal, David Jones, Jahvon Quinerly and Nae’Qwan Tomlin, among others, were more offensive-oriented.

“It just has to be different next year,” Hardaway said. “This doesn’t sit well with me because it just wasn’t a representation of who we should be.”

Again, it's like none of the blame for this season's wrongs is being accepted by him. It was all on everyone else.

(03-15-2024 02:50 AM)Rufus T. Firefly Wrote:  

(03-12-2024 11:37 AM)Alanda Wrote:  

(03-11-2024 09:59 PM)Atlanta Wrote:  

(03-11-2024 11:43 AM)SouthernBoiNOLA Wrote:  Reasons why.....
No leadership,
Defense,
Defense,
Defense

I didn't realize it at the time, but Caleb going down ended any shot we had at reaching our potential. He was the leader of the team. Our other top guys are not "leaders". They are not the kind of players that will pull another player to the side and get on them about their play. None of them outside of Caleb want to play D (Quinerly, Walton, or either just don't have the Defensive instinct (Jourdain, Jones, Tomlin).

Lack of defense, agree. But lack of defense is in part due to the heavy help style Penny insists on playing. These players aren't capable of playing Penny's desired style. At best playing a straight up, tight man D with limited switching (as was played for much of the UAB 2nd half) is the best defense for this team.

But whatever the issues, there is no excuse for losing 7 conference games in this conference with this talent.

It's also disappointing to me seeing Houston, who we would battle with, going to the Big 12 and winning the regular season conference title in arguably the best basketball conference. While we finish 5th in a conference that's weaker than before.

Kelvin Sampson > Penny Hardaway. Tragically, it's that simple.

Kelvin Sampson >>> Penny Hardaway

Kelvin Sampson could take a mule to the Kentucky Derby and win.

Penny would turn Secretariat into a plow horse.

(03-09-2024 02:16 PM)mempho_to_diego Wrote:  Season ain't over yet. Lmao.

It’s over now and mercifully so.

(03-15-2024 02:58 AM)Rufus T. Firefly Wrote:  This is part of an article I just read where Penny said there was no way he'd accept an NIT invitation.

Hardaway said that next season he will be harder on players who don’t live up to his standard and will put a greater emphasis on defense and rebounding when he builds his roster. This season’s additions through the transfer portal, David Jones, Jahvon Quinerly and Nae’Qwan Tomlin, among others, were more offensive-oriented.

“It just has to be different next year,” Hardaway said. “This doesn’t sit well with me because it just wasn’t a representation of who we should be.”

Again, it's like none of the blame for this season's wrongs is being accepted by him. It was all on everyone else.

He said that back after the Wiseman debacle year and every year since. He’s learning the coach speak

Houston was atrocious for 25 years between Phi Slamma Jamma and Sampson. They went thru idk how many piss poor coaches. James Dickey, Penders, Drexler, I can’t even remember them all. Memphis just needs that level of commitment and money that Houston had to bring in Sampson. I believe the $ is available, but I’m not sure the commitment from the boosters and school is there.