flyingswoosh Wrote:many colleges don't read those essays. and if they still do, they've begun to stop, because many people cheat, etc.

Dude, you're so ****ing retarded. Care to show me your proof that colleges don't read eassays? I work with a former college admissions officer (at Duke) on applying to college and she's always stressing about the importance of the essay. And the people that read the essays have read thousands of them and can tell when people are just BSing.

you keep skirting around answering my question. Do you think the mandatory service learning hours requirement undermine the idea of volunteer work? If you say no, i will stop arguing, because not even john kerry could say no.

flyingswoosh Wrote:what does everyone think? Personally, i think this is awful. Forced volunteerism is not volunteer work, it is indentured servitude.

I find it absolutely inappropriate and out of place at any public / state institution... that goes for high school and college. If it's a private college or high school, and that's just their moronic way of doing things, let the dumb times roll!

georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:

flyingswoosh Wrote:what does everyone think?  Personally, i think this is awful.  Forced volunteerism is not volunteer work, it is indentured servitude.

I find it absolutely inappropriate and out of place at any public / state institution... that goes for high school and college. If it's a private college or high school, and that's just their moronic way of doing things, let the dumb times roll!

wow, a sane, non-ignorant mind.

georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:

flyingswoosh Wrote:what does everyone think?  Personally, i think this is awful.  Forced volunteerism is not volunteer work, it is indentured servitude.

I find it absolutely inappropriate and out of place at any public / state institution... that goes for high school and college. If it's a private college or high school, and that's just their moronic way of doing things, let the dumb times roll!

i am just wondering why you think that way.

flyingswoosh Wrote:Do you think the mandatory service learning hours requirement undermine the idea of volunteer work?

No, because you are not forced to work. You are not required to obtain a diploma. But to earn a diploma, there are requirements that must be met: 1) you must pass 20 of 24 classes (approx.), 2) you must perform a certain number of volunteer hours.

A volunteer, a person who renders aid, performs a service, or assumes an obligation voluntarily, chooses what he or she will do to earn these hours, as opposed to your claim of forced labor or indentured servititude where you do not have the choice to work or where to work.

So the person still volunteers to work, and for meeting the requirements, the volunteer becomes eligible for a diploma.

In no way, shape, or form does this undermine the idea of being a volunteer. Once again, you are not forced to do the hours, but as a result of your choice not to work, you forfeit your eligibility to earn a diploma. Even you can't be dumb enough not to understand this.

T-Monay820 Wrote:

flyingswoosh Wrote:Do you think the mandatory service learning hours requirement undermine the idea of volunteer work?

No, because you are not forced to work. You are not required to obtain a diploma. But to earn a diploma, there are requirements that must be met: 1) you must pass 20 of 24 classes (approx.), 2) you must perform a certain number of volunteer hours.

A volunteer, a person who renders aid, performs a service, or assumes an obligation voluntarily, chooses what he or she will do to earn these hours, as opposed to your claim of forced labor or indentured servititude where you do not have the choice to work or where to work.

So the person still volunteers to work, and for meeting the requirements, the volunteer becomes eligible for a diploma.

In no way, shape, or form does this undermine the idea of being a volunteer. Once again, you are not forced to do the hours, but as a result of your choice not to work, you forfeit your eligibility to earn a diploma. Even you can't be dumb enough not to understand this.

talk about missing the point. A volunteer is someone who does something because they think it's right, not so they can graduate.

My next point, after you failed abysmally against the last one, is that the school should not take it upon themselves to make sure people volunteer. they should take it upon themselves to make sure people learn the skills to succeed in life, that's it. You can't teach someone to volunteer.

if you want to dwell on the 'indentured servitude' thing, i'm fine with that too. Indentured servants were workers who worked to attain the freedom to move on to the next stage in life. Us students are working to be able to go to college, or in other words, the next step in life.

flyingswoosh Wrote:

georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:

flyingswoosh Wrote:what does everyone think?  Personally, i think this is awful.  Forced volunteerism is not volunteer work, it is indentured servitude.

I find it absolutely inappropriate and out of place at any public / state institution... that goes for high school and college. If it's a private college or high school, and that's just their moronic way of doing things, let the dumb times roll!

i am just wondering why you think that way.

Requiring community service turns it from volunteer work that goes on your resume to cheap labor for a institution posing as higher education.

It's a system that can, will, and always will be exploited. What's the name of the college that used mandatory community service to build ROADS and pay students less than 1/2 minimum wage?

It's yet further proof that governments and microgovernments tend to run rampant with power, and should be put much more in check (Libertarian party principle style).

flyingswoosh Wrote:A volunteer is someone who does something because they think it's right, not so they can graduate.

Uh, no. A volunteer is a person who renders aid, performs a service, or assumes an obligation voluntarily, it has nothing to do if they believe whether its right or not. I don't volunteer to work because I think its right.

T-Monay820 Wrote:

flyingswoosh Wrote:A volunteer is someone who does something because they think it's right, not so they can graduate.

Uh, no. A volunteer is a person who renders aid, performs a service, or assumes an obligation voluntarily, it has nothing to do if they believe whether its right or not. I don't volunteer to work because I think its right.

let me rephrase that. people volunteer because they want to do so. Volunteers shouldn't have some alterior motive when working.

T-Monay820 Wrote:

flyingswoosh Wrote:A volunteer is someone who does something because they think it's right, not so they can graduate.

Uh, no. A volunteer is a person who renders aid, performs a service, or assumes an obligation voluntarily, it has nothing to do if they believe whether its right or not. I don't volunteer to work because I think its right.

If it's a public school, they may not be able to go anywhere else. Therefore it's not always voluntary.

People going to school for re-education from the job market, people on tight budgets... they can't go elsewhere. Thus it's forced. It's forced somewhat if that's where you are offered the best education in your job field.

It's a system that exploited by the institution to save money and get the equivalent of quasi slave labor.

Actually, you're arguing about a non-existant problem and I'm using the wrong arguement.

Quote:Graduation from East Chapel Hill High School requires the completion of a minimum of fifty (50) hours of service to the school and/or community by volunteering at a location that fits the school district's requirements for service learning.

You are required to have 50 hours of service so it essentially is SL Hours as opposed to volunteer hours, but you volunteer or willfully give your services at the location you want to work at.

The above is directed at Swoosh.

I don't agree with it. Once you're forced to do something then while it helps someone it's not volunteer, I didn't feel nearly as good about the volunteer work I did for school credit as I did for the volunteer work I did because I wanted to. I understand that they want students to know the importance of volunteering and want us to donate our time but most people I know would willingly do that stuff w/out a grade the mandate on it takes out some of the fun, students feel forced.

T-Monay820 Wrote:You are required to have 50 hours of service so it essentially is SL Hours as opposed to volunteer hours, but you volunteer or willfully give your services at the location you want to work at.

Forced "volunteer" work with a lame "bonus" if you ask me.

This is what I see:

You are not forced to do any work. But if you wish to earn a diploma you are required to work to earn it. One requirement is choosing whether you will volunteer your time (50 hours) to make yourself eligible for the diploma.

Being forced to do something, and meeting a requirement are being confused in this "issue".

I'm done. Michael is just being retarded again with his useless "causes". He once again confuses words and tries to play off of definitions and tries to bend them to his liking (ex: red light cameras).

T-Monay820 Wrote:I'm done. Michael is just being retarded again with his useless "causes". He once again confuses words and tries to play off of definitions and tries to bend them to his liking (ex: red light cameras).

jesus, open your eyes to what everyone is saying. They are agreeing that these SL hours undermine the volunteer program.

what words did i confuse, and what definitions did i bend? Again, you seem to think that i am the only person to use such words as 'forced labor'. If you had done any research in this topic which i'm sure you haven't, you would know that many people across the country use the same terminology. Also, many people across the country agree about the red light cameras, including our town council, which you and your family hold in such high esteem.

what is the point of going to school?