what does everyone think? Personally, i think this is awful. Forced volunteerism is not volunteer work, it is indentured servitude.

If you don't want to work, don't get your hours and don't get your degree. Its that simple. To obtain a high school diploma at East they have requirements that extend beyond simple education. You accept those requirements, and accept the condition to volunteer to earn a degree. They don't force you to do the work. It is a requisite for obtaining a diploma, not forced labor. Just like your God and slavery b.s. you're trying to dig too deep and missing the obvious stuff on the surface.

I'm ok with it, provided it is very encompassing.

For example, if my kids volunteer at our church, that should count.

When the schools/state start dictating what volunteer work they want...then I have a problem with it.

Maryland schools (which has this type of program) recently came under some heat b/c students were allowed to get credit if they went to Annapolis to attend a rally to support increased school funding. That's also out of line, IMO b/c it's self-serving for the schools, and allows teachers and administrators to use the program for their political ambitions.

Education is for the benefit of the common good (at least some motivation for it is defined as such). Encouraging volunteerism fits that agenda. Ironically, there was a bit on 20/20 a few months ago that showed some labor groups opposed certain volunteer projects. Some firemen in the NE couldn't also be volunteer firemen on their own time. What a nutty country we have.

Laettner's Legacy Wrote:

Swoosh thinks that :

Requirement: Community Service
To earn: Degree
Equals: Indentured servititude

Just like his other thought:

Requirement: Believing Jesus is son of God
To earn: Entry into Heaven
Equals: Slavery

Just some more nonsense from swoosh.

T-Monay820 Wrote:

Laettner's Legacy Wrote:

Swoosh thinks that :

Requirement: Community Service
To earn: Degree
Equals: Indentured servititude

Just like his other thought:

Requirement: Believing Jesus is son of God
To earn: Entry into Heaven
Equals: Slavery

Just some more nonsense from swoosh.

what garbage. School exists for academic purposes. Fairness, is not where you are forced to do something just to graduate. it is such crap. Fairness is when you have the choice to do something, and the people who do it, look better than the people who don't. this has nothing to do with my slave to god debate. so get your head out of your *** and listen to what i'm saying. You are always so quick to jump on someone, who even slightly disagrees with you.

Let me ask you a question. Is it volunteer work if you're forced to do it, in order to receive something very basic, that implies completing courses of study?

T-Monay820 Wrote:If you don't want to work, don't get your hours and don't get your degree. Its that simple. To obtain a high school diploma at East they have requirements that extend beyond simple education. You accept those requirements, and accept the condition to volunteer to earn a degree. They don't force you to do the work. It is a requisite for obtaining a diploma, not forced labor. Just like your God and slavery b.s. you're trying to dig too deep and missing the obvious stuff on the surface.

then call it a work credit, where people actually learn things. it is not volunteerism, it is a WORK CREDIT. Volunteerism is not something where people try to find loopholes to satisfy there hours. And yes, that happens more often than not.

flyingswoosh Wrote:Let me ask you a question. Is it volunteer work if you're forced to do it, in order to receive something very basic, that implies completing courses of study?

If you are just debating the use of the term "volunteer" then perhaps you have a point. It's not volunteer in the strictest sense, since you're getting consideration in the form of credits to get a diploma.
Is it wrong? You have my opinion.

"Schools exist for academic purposes." Who says so? As I said, the gov't mandates education b/c it's for the "common good". Anyway, this sort of work always has some academic benefits. True "field" work is always beneficial. You see how tools work...not just hypothetically. You learn a sense of time...how long does a job really take? Such a skill is essential for good proposal writing. You get to see how labor is delegated: 100 people working 1 hour may not equal 10 people working 10 hours.

How all of this is integrated into the classroom learning...well that's up to the teacher. It probably fails miserably...because most teachers have had mostly classroom teaching themselves, and these subtleties aren't emphasized in education degree programs. (Actually, they're not emphasized in many programs at all.)

DrTorch Wrote:

flyingswoosh Wrote:Let me ask you a question.  Is it volunteer work if you're forced to do it,  in order to receive something very basic, that implies completing courses of study?

If you are just debating the use of the term "volunteer" then perhaps you have a point. It's not volunteer in the strictest sense, since you're getting consideration in the form of credits to get a diploma.
Is it wrong? You have my opinion.

"Schools exist for academic purposes." Who says so? As I said, the gov't mandates education b/c it's for the "common good". Anyway, this sort of work always has some academic benefits. True "field" work is always beneficial. You see how tools work...not just hypothetically. You learn a sense of time...how long does a job really take? Such a skill is essential for good proposal writing. You get to see how labor is delegated: 100 people working 1 hour may not equal 10 people working 10 hours.

How all of this is integrated into the classroom learning...well that's up to the teacher. It probably fails miserably...because most teachers have had mostly classroom teaching themselves, and these subtleties aren't emphasized in education degree programs. (Actually, they're not emphasized in many programs at all.)

most of the kids doing service hours don't do something meaningful, whioch helps them learn skills as you put it. Because kids are forced to do these hours, they look for the easiest, most lax things to do. Also, the people doing these activities are disgruntled kids who hate volunteering,a nd complain the whole time.

hey thermos, here is a very colloquial yet enlightening essay, written by East's very own Chris Koufopolis:

Chris Koufopoulos
Graduation Paper
04-29-04

Many wonder as to how making service learning a requirement for graduation affects the students. I am here to tell you that I am a changed person since my freshman year. Because of my “willingness

can someone actually tell me that this stuff doesn't undermine the idea of volunteerism. Just like AmeriCorps does.

Then all you're doing is complaining about the name. Like Torch said, maybe it should be called work credit. But the difference between forced labor and volunteer service is you get to decide what you're gonna work on. You have to volunteer to earn a diploma. Should we also not be forced to learn things we don't want to learn? Like P.E. I don't like running. Why should I have to run to pass the course? Because running is a requirement to earn the credit. Just like volunteer hours are required to earn a diploma. You don't get assigned a task, you volunteer to work there.

volunteer - noun - A person who renders aid, performs a service, or assumes an obligation voluntarily.

The diploma is a reward for your service.

Also, you will see a noticible difference between students that want to volunteer and ones that don't. Colleges can look and see what your graduation requirement for SL is and compare it to other students. If you just did 50, it doesn't compare to someone who did 300. If students don't want to volunteer, then why would they do more than necessary?

T-Monay820 Wrote:Then all you're doing is complaining about the name. Like Torch said, maybe it should be called work credit. But the difference between forced labor and volunteer service is you get to decide what you're gonna work on. You have to volunteer to earn a diploma. Should we also not be forced to learn things we don't want to learn? Like P.E. I don't like running. Why should I have to run to pass the course? Because running is a requirement to earn the credit. Just like volunteer hours are required to earn a diploma. You don't get assigned a task, you volunteer to work there.

actually, the name is only one thing i'm colpaining at. One very small thing. Actually, i came across an essay on the internet that said in P.E. kids learn the value of physical activities that can keep them healthy. And on a personal account, i've played a couple of those coach beyle P.E. games outside of school, just for fun. this is just the school system flexing their muscles, while undermining the volunteer system. oddly enough, you haven't addressed that last fact. The only thing you seem to be able to say is that it's ok that you it's a requirement because they school board doesn't have a problem with it.

Doing this just to earn a diploma only hurts the people who do volunteer work because they care. Or has your undying love for neil the nazi, blinded you from that fact?

T-Monay820 Wrote:Also, you will see a noticible difference between students that want to volunteer and ones that don't. Colleges can look and see what your graduation requirement for SL is and compare it to other students. If you just did 50, it doesn't compare to someone who did 300. If students don't want to volunteer, then why would they do more than necessary?

what about the students who want to do more, but don't have the time or resources? What does the racist have to say about that?

flyingswoosh Wrote:what about the students who want to do more, but don't have the time or resources? What does the racist have to say about that?

You're not making any type of a point with this statement, mearly making yourself look like a *******. What are you trying to prove about "students who want to do more, but don't have the time or resources"? What about them?

T-Monay820 Wrote:

flyingswoosh Wrote:what about the students who want to do more, but don't have the time or resources?  What does the racist have to say about that?

You're not making any type of a point with this statement, mearly making yourself look like a *******. What are you trying to prove about "students who want to do more, but don't have the time or resources"? What about them?

my point, genius, is that they can only do so many hours, maybe 75. If someone like me does 50, it won't look much different.

With no requirement, colleges won't have to look at the numbers, but instead will look at the volunteers themselves.

flyingswoosh Wrote:my point, genius, is that they can only do so many hours, maybe 75. If someone like me does 50, it won't look much different.

With no requirement, colleges won't have to look at the numbers, but instead will look at the volunteers themselves.

You also are required to report what you did not just how many hours you have. Ever heard of the college essay? If a student is truly heartfelt about working volunteer services, then you will be able to see it in the essay. And no college goes simply by SL hours.

T-Monay820 Wrote:

flyingswoosh Wrote:my point, genius, is that they can only do so many hours, maybe 75.  If someone like me does 50, it won't look much different. 

With no requirement, colleges won't have to look at the numbers, but instead will look at the volunteers themselves.

You also are required to report what you did not just how many hours you have. Ever heard of the college essay? If a student is truly heartfelt about working volunteer services, then you will be able to see it in the essay. And no college goes simply by SL hours.

many colleges don't read those essays. and if they still do, they've begun to stop, because many people cheat, etc. If you had gone on at least one college tour you would know that, but you seem to think that you don't need a tour, but that's a whole different topic.