namrag Wrote:

mc72642 Wrote:

JFlight21 Wrote:Just to clarify for Don. It is Illinois State that UC plays on the road, not Southern Illinois.

Okay thanks! I knew it was Illinois something and they have all their players back and UC was trying to get out of the game because it looks like a loss. Same with UAB. Next year if UC can get out of them, you won't see any non conference games except with teams from a low low conference that will be a sure win. Bring on Tennessee-Martin or someone like that. The days of we will play anyone anywhere are over. Have to sugar coat the record the best we can. Wins always look good even if it's over Little Sisters of the Poor. If UC can get out of the Memphis game and others next year and only play 12 games against Little Sisters of the Poor, going into conference play 12-0 would really look good. Then you only have to win 4 conference games to finish over 500. If you say it fast it sounds good. Don

OK, I don't like getting all worked up with whomever, and I know you are baiting people, but that was about the most ignorant post I have seen in a long time.

It is one of two things, either you know that you are lying because UC played many creampuffs in OOC play under Huggs (ever hear of the Bearcat classic? tough competition in that, yes?) and just want to bait people, OR secondly you actually believe the nonsense you wrote.

Come on Don, be a critic of the current coach and program all you want, be the Dickie V up Huggs as$ all you want, but don't post such ignorant drivel that is either an insult to everyone else because you think we are all stupid enough to believe it, or illustrative of how skewed and biased and misinformed you can be.

So which is it Don, do you want to go back and recalculate all of Huggs records to subtract all the early season creampuffs he scheduled (take away atleast 3-4 wins a year), or do you want to admit that the current scheduling style is pretty the same as it has always been?

Sometimes your negativity can be founded in legit truths, and other times, like in this one, your negativity is rooted in a disdain for the current program that causes you to post the most ignorant childish stuff.

More and more I just see the ignorant childish stuff.....

I see your current stance on Cronin is this:

-He must average as many wins in BEAST as Huggs did in GMWC / CUSA, which is a total joke considerig the relative strengths of each.

-He must do the above while scheduling all OOC games with top teams, while Huggs records when he got atleast 3-4 wins a season against creampuffs work just fine for comparison.

-He must do this after starting with a program that was DECIMATED, and much worse than any reasonable intelligent comparison of the program that existed when Huggs walked in.

Maybe the current program would get on your good side if their OOC schedule included the likes of American, Bethune-Cookman, Brooklyn, Coastal Carolina, Evansville, Fairleigh-Dickinson, Middle Tennesse State, Missouri-Kansas City, Northern Kentucky, Portland, Southern, and Southwest Louisiana State?

All of these teams were on our schedules within the first 3 yrs of Huggs era. Two of the above made repeat appearences during that 3yr period. So that is 14 games over 3 seasons, pretty much dead-on with my "3-4 creampuff wins a season" estimate.

And there are several other teams we played in that 3 season period that aren't exactly consistent powerhouses then or now, such as Alcorn State, Arkansas State, Austin Peaey, Morehead State, Oral Roberts, South Carolina State, and UNC Wilmington. We played two of these teams twice over the 3 season period as well.

So the above account for 23 games over a 3 season period. Break it down to 7 games a season for 2 seasons and 8 games in the third season.

If the current program scheduled 7 or 8 games a season against these type teams Don, you would be bitching and moaning...
Hold on, you ARE bitching and moaning.

And that is not even factoring in how absolutely dreadful the bottom tier GMWC / CUSA teams were in conference play. The 3 wins a season UD teams of that time were 2 creampuff wins a year for us. Throw in Depaul for most of the 90's. They were horrible.

I am thinking the ignore function for you may getting more attractive. You continue to be just a broken record of the same old ignorant nonsense. Your dogs just don't hunt.

as a longtime reader of this board, i learned early just how don posts. i've developed a habit in deciphering don's posts without getting riled up by the perceived constant negativity. anyone who's taken algebra should know what i mean when i give you this example...
a^2 - 5a - 6 can be factored into (a-6)*(a+1) using the unFOILing method. likewise, don's posts can usually be factored in this way:(negativity towards cronin/current rebuidling situation, anger over huggins, his disdain that UC is years away from being competitive (his opinion)) * (attempt to make a point, factual information, baiting the crowd/prediction). it's not always like this, but in most cases, well don, it's pretty predictable. i chuckle to myself whenever i see that don started a thread, because i can usually count on dozens of replys, and hundreds of views. however, if you can factor out the first part and analyze the second part, you may find that the thread contains something worth a response, or not worthy of responding to at all because afterall don is an instigator, and thrives on getting people worked up. that's his role on this board, he knows it, he embraces it. although i must say don, i thought this thread was different. silly me to think you actually were curious on other people's predictions when in truth you were tired of the positivity of the upcoming season . don's comfortable climate seems to be doom and gloom, and this environment got a little too optimistic for him. now in no way do i claim to know don personally (never met him, but would actually entertain the idea of doing so: if nothing else he seems like quite a character, and seems to possess a good sense of humor), but he has provided a large sample of his work through his time on this board. the factoring process is my way of deciphering don's posts, and controlling my emotions. after factoring, i saw he would like to gather other UC fans opinions on the record for the upcoming season, and i responded with my actual opinion. if you aren't comfortable giving your opinion for whatever reason (opponents, home/away, schedule not complete), it's best to just not respond, because this type of perhaps logical approach only makes you look like a coward in don's eyes, and you will be perceived accordingly .

namrag Wrote:

mc72642 Wrote:

JFlight21 Wrote:Just to clarify for Don. It is Illinois State that UC plays on the road, not Southern Illinois.

Okay thanks! I knew it was Illinois something and they have all their players back and UC was trying to get out of the game because it looks like a loss. Same with UAB. Next year if UC can get out of them, you won't see any non conference games except with teams from a low low conference that will be a sure win. Bring on Tennessee-Martin or someone like that. The days of we will play anyone anywhere are over. Have to sugar coat the record the best we can. Wins always look good even if it's over Little Sisters of the Poor. If UC can get out of the Memphis game and others next year and only play 12 games against Little Sisters of the Poor, going into conference play 12-0 would really look good. Then you only have to win 4 conference games to finish over 500. If you say it fast it sounds good. Don

OK, I don't like getting all worked up with whomever, and I know you are baiting people, but that was about the most ignorant post I have seen in a long time.

It is one of two things, either you know that you are lying because UC played many creampuffs in OOC play under Huggs (ever hear of the Bearcat classic? tough competition in that, yes?) and just want to bait people, OR secondly you actually believe the nonsense you wrote.

Come on Don, be a critic of the current coach and program all you want, be the Dickie V up Huggs as$ all you want, but don't post such ignorant drivel that is either an insult to everyone else because you think we are all stupid enough to believe it, or illustrative of how skewed and biased and misinformed you can be.

So which is it Don, do you want to go back and recalculate all of Huggs records to subtract all the early season creampuffs he scheduled (take away atleast 3-4 wins a year), or do you want to admit that the current scheduling style is pretty the same as it has always been?

Sometimes your negativity can be founded in legit truths, and other times, like in this one, your negativity is rooted in a disdain for the current program that causes you to post the most ignorant childish stuff.

More and more I just see the ignorant childish stuff.....

I see your current stance on Cronin is this:

-He must average as many wins in BEAST as Huggs did in GMWC / CUSA, which is a total joke considerig the relative strengths of each.

-He must do the above while scheduling all OOC games with top teams, while Huggs records when he got atleast 3-4 wins a season against creampuffs work just fine for comparison.

-He must do this after starting with a program that was DECIMATED, and much worse than any reasonable intelligent comparison of the program that existed when Huggs walked in.

Maybe the current program would get on your good side if their OOC schedule included the likes of American, Bethune-Cookman, Brooklyn, Coastal Carolina, Evansville, Fairleigh-Dickinson, Middle Tennesse State, Missouri-Kansas City, Northern Kentucky, Portland, Southern, and Southwest Louisiana State?

All of these teams were on our schedules within the first 3 yrs of Huggs era. Two of the above made repeat appearences during that 3yr period. So that is 14 games over 3 seasons, pretty much dead-on with my "3-4 creampuff wins a season" estimate.

And there are several other teams we played in that 3 season period that aren't exactly consistent powerhouses then or now, such as Alcorn State, Arkansas State, Austin Peaey, Morehead State, Oral Roberts, South Carolina State, and UNC Wilmington. We played two of these teams twice over the 3 season period as well.

So the above account for 23 games over a 3 season period. Break it down to 7 games a season for 2 seasons and 8 games in the third season.

If the current program scheduled 7 or 8 games a season against these type teams Don, you would be bitching and moaning...
Hold on, you ARE bitching and moaning.

And that is not even factoring in how absolutely dreadful the bottom tier GMWC / CUSA teams were in conference play. The 3 wins a season UD teams of that time were 2 creampuff wins a year for us. Throw in Depaul for most of the 90's. They were horrible.

I am thinking the ignore function for you may getting more attractive. You continue to be just a broken record of the same old ignorant nonsense. Your dogs just don't hunt.

Thanks for your opinion. At least you put it on here and didn't sneak off and PM the mods like some do. As far as the creampuffs I didn't say there was anything wrong with it. I just stated that's what you will see if it can be arranged. Not 3 or 4 but 12. Myself I want to see 12 cream puffs on next years non conference schdule. UC needs some wins bad to make people forget going 11-19. The people in charge need some wins before the fans get rowdy. I'm all for 12 cream puffs. Bring them on! We will run them out of the gym. Oh by the way. Is it too much to ask for you to put how many wins you think UC will have this year? Don

Don,

Now that its out, made my prediction. 17 wins....tied for 10th in conference.

BTW: only a handfull of folks needing some wins bad to forget 11-19. Way in the rear view mirror for most.

mrstealz012 Wrote:

namrag Wrote:

mc72642 Wrote:

JFlight21 Wrote:Just to clarify for Don. It is Illinois State that UC plays on the road, not Southern Illinois.

Okay thanks! I knew it was Illinois something and they have all their players back and UC was trying to get out of the game because it looks like a loss. Same with UAB. Next year if UC can get out of them, you won't see any non conference games except with teams from a low low conference that will be a sure win. Bring on Tennessee-Martin or someone like that. The days of we will play anyone anywhere are over. Have to sugar coat the record the best we can. Wins always look good even if it's over Little Sisters of the Poor. If UC can get out of the Memphis game and others next year and only play 12 games against Little Sisters of the Poor, going into conference play 12-0 would really look good. Then you only have to win 4 conference games to finish over 500. If you say it fast it sounds good. Don

OK, I don't like getting all worked up with whomever, and I know you are baiting people, but that was about the most ignorant post I have seen in a long time.

It is one of two things, either you know that you are lying because UC played many creampuffs in OOC play under Huggs (ever hear of the Bearcat classic? tough competition in that, yes?) and just want to bait people, OR secondly you actually believe the nonsense you wrote.

Come on Don, be a critic of the current coach and program all you want, be the Dickie V up Huggs as$ all you want, but don't post such ignorant drivel that is either an insult to everyone else because you think we are all stupid enough to believe it, or illustrative of how skewed and biased and misinformed you can be.

So which is it Don, do you want to go back and recalculate all of Huggs records to subtract all the early season creampuffs he scheduled (take away atleast 3-4 wins a year), or do you want to admit that the current scheduling style is pretty the same as it has always been?

Sometimes your negativity can be founded in legit truths, and other times, like in this one, your negativity is rooted in a disdain for the current program that causes you to post the most ignorant childish stuff.

More and more I just see the ignorant childish stuff.....

I see your current stance on Cronin is this:

-He must average as many wins in BEAST as Huggs did in GMWC / CUSA, which is a total joke considerig the relative strengths of each.

-He must do the above while scheduling all OOC games with top teams, while Huggs records when he got atleast 3-4 wins a season against creampuffs work just fine for comparison.

-He must do this after starting with a program that was DECIMATED, and much worse than any reasonable intelligent comparison of the program that existed when Huggs walked in.

Maybe the current program would get on your good side if their OOC schedule included the likes of American, Bethune-Cookman, Brooklyn, Coastal Carolina, Evansville, Fairleigh-Dickinson, Middle Tennesse State, Missouri-Kansas City, Northern Kentucky, Portland, Southern, and Southwest Louisiana State?

All of these teams were on our schedules within the first 3 yrs of Huggs era. Two of the above made repeat appearences during that 3yr period. So that is 14 games over 3 seasons, pretty much dead-on with my "3-4 creampuff wins a season" estimate.

And there are several other teams we played in that 3 season period that aren't exactly consistent powerhouses then or now, such as Alcorn State, Arkansas State, Austin Peaey, Morehead State, Oral Roberts, South Carolina State, and UNC Wilmington. We played two of these teams twice over the 3 season period as well.

So the above account for 23 games over a 3 season period. Break it down to 7 games a season for 2 seasons and 8 games in the third season.

If the current program scheduled 7 or 8 games a season against these type teams Don, you would be bitching and moaning...
Hold on, you ARE bitching and moaning.

And that is not even factoring in how absolutely dreadful the bottom tier GMWC / CUSA teams were in conference play. The 3 wins a season UD teams of that time were 2 creampuff wins a year for us. Throw in Depaul for most of the 90's. They were horrible.

I am thinking the ignore function for you may getting more attractive. You continue to be just a broken record of the same old ignorant nonsense. Your dogs just don't hunt.

as a longtime reader of this board, i learned early just how don posts. i've developed a habit in deciphering don's posts without getting riled up by the perceived constant negativity. anyone who's taken algebra should know what i mean when i give you this example...
a^2 - 5a - 6 can be factored into (a-6)*(a+1) using the unFOILing method. likewise, don's posts can usually be factored in this way:(negativity towards cronin/current rebuidling situation, anger over huggins, his disdain that UC is years away from being competitive (his opinion)) * (attempt to make a point, factual information, baiting the crowd/prediction). it's not always like this, but in most cases, well don, it's pretty predictable. i chuckle to myself whenever i see that don started a thread, because i can usually count on dozens of replys, and hundreds of views. however, if you can factor out the first part and analyze the second part, you may find that the thread contains something worth a response, or not worthy of responding to at all because afterall don is an instigator, and thrives on getting people worked up. that's his role on this board, he knows it, he embraces it. although i must say don, i thought this thread was different. silly me to think you actually were curious on other people's predictions when in truth you were tired of the positivity of the upcoming season . don's comfortable climate seems to be doom and gloom, and this environment got a little too optimistic for him. now in no way do i claim to know don personally (never met him, but would actually entertain the idea of doing so: if nothing else he seems like quite a character, and seems to possess a good sense of humor), but he has provided a large sample of his work through his time on this board. the factoring process is my way of deciphering don's posts, and controlling my emotions. after factoring, i saw he would like to gather other UC fans opinions on the record for the upcoming season, and i responded with my actual opinion. if you aren't comfortable giving your opinion for whatever reason (opponents, home/away, schedule not complete), it's best to just not respond, because this type of perhaps logical approach only makes you look like a coward in don's eyes, and you will be perceived accordingly .

I like your post very much! Lot of truth there. But you and I both know half the people on this board won't have a clue what you just said. You did notice the rah rah boys were ashamed to put their win total on here. Don

mc72642 Wrote:

gruehls Wrote:

mc72642 Wrote:

THE BearcatBrent Wrote:14 - 16 record, and about the same spot in the league

... People like to stay with the crowd but don't want to look like a fool.

some people have the complete fool package without the benefit of the crowd.

I'd like you to make a new rule. Gruehls is not allowed to post on any thread of mc72642's. Nothing good can become of it especially for me. Not that I have a guilty consience but it scares the dog out of me when I see your name pop up on a thread of mine. So if you would please stay off my thread I can handle the rest of them. Don

Got your hand slapped with the ruler out in public & to avoid further humiliation you go into humble mode? Don, bite back or forever be labeled a wimp.

18 wins. (I was going to say 17 but Rath said 17 & you would make fun of him-certainly not me-if we had the same win count)
9 & 9 in the conference.

:

OneUChoopsfan Wrote:

mc72642 Wrote:

gruehls Wrote:

mc72642 Wrote:

THE BearcatBrent Wrote:14 - 16 record, and about the same spot in the league

... People like to stay with the crowd but don't want to look like a fool.

some people have the complete fool package without the benefit of the crowd.

I'd like you to make a new rule. Gruehls is not allowed to post on any thread of mc72642's. Nothing good can become of it especially for me. Not that I have a guilty consience but it scares the dog out of me when I see your name pop up on a thread of mine. So if you would please stay off my thread I can handle the rest of them. Don

Got your hand slapped with the ruler out in public & to avoid further humiliation you go into humble mode? Don, bite back or forever be labeled a wimp.

The only wimps on this thread are the ones who won't post their win total and that includes you peedunk. You think the Land of the Brave is some Indian Reservation. Don

mc72642 Wrote:The only wimps on this thread are the ones who won't post their win total and that includes you peedunk. You think the Land of the Brave is some Indian Reservation. Don

Hey you. Don't speak before you have read all the posts. I'm on record & with a very optomistic prediction at that.

Peedunk? I googled it & found it to be a leeegitmate word although I think you used it out of context. As far as I can determine it refers to hick towns, but that's OK. I've slammed you more than you deserve and I should get a lot more slapulations than I have received.

OneUChoopsfan Wrote:

mc72642 Wrote:The only wimps on this thread are the ones who won't post their win total and that includes you peedunk. You think the Land of the Brave is some Indian Reservation. Don

Hey you. Don't speak before you have read all the posts. I'm on record & with a very optomistic prediction at that.

Peedunk? I googled it & found it to be a leeegitmate word although I think you used it out of context. As far as I can determine it refers to hick towns, but that's OK. I've slammed you more than you deserve and I should get a lot more slapulations than I have received.

Hey your alright! I didn't see your win total because I was trying to figure out how much it was going to cost me to watch every UC basketball game this year on TV. 200 dollars and counting so far. I knew you and Rath would go at least one win over me so you wouldn't look bad. Don

don, because it means so much to me not to be labeled a wimp by you, i intended to prognosticate.

but i recalled you asked me not to post in your threads, so i find myself impaled on the horns of yet another "don dilemma." verily, a scylla and charybdis kinda moment.

logic dictates that if you start fewer threads, i'll have fewer occasions to address the substance, or lack of substance, reflected in the thread title.

i'll pass on the obvious answer to "what does illogic dictate?"

gruehls Wrote:don, because it means so much to me not to be labeled a wimp by you, i intended to prognosticate.

but i recalled you asked me not to post in your threads, so i find myself impaled on the horns of yet another "don dilemma." verily, a scylla and charybdis kinda moment.

logic dictates that if you start fewer threads, i'll have fewer occasions to address the substance, or lack of substance, reflected in the thread title.

i'll pass on the obvious answer to "what does illogic dictate?"

You said what? Give me a break! I'm a redneck hilljack with an 8th grade education. I forgot about the win prediction so I will wave that post. Actually I didn't think you knew enough about what was going on to be able to predict a win total on your own. Just copy someone else's prediction and post that. I will let you slide because I like you. Don

mc72642 Wrote:You said what? Give me a break! I'm a redneck hilljack with an 8th grade education. I forgot about the win prediction so I will wave that post. Actually I didn't think you knew enough about what was going on to be able to predict a win total on your own.

i don't, so i'll wave back. um, are we waving or waiving?

Quote:Just copy someone else's prediction and post that. I will let you slide because I like you. Don

they tell me often that i let too much slide for the same reason.

"bulimia nervosa": commonly known as bulimia, is an eating disorder. It is a psychological condition in which the subject engages in recurrent binge eating followed by intentional purging.

"croninimia bullshitosa": commonly known as "Don syndrome," is a sports board posting disorder. It is a pathologic condition in which the poster engages in binge posting on the exact same subject over an extended period of time, in which he ignores the heartfelt entreaties of his fellow posters, and as a result of which he regurgitates the same thing over, and over, and over, and over, and.........over.

i'm hoping for a cure.

gruehls Wrote:

mc72642 Wrote:You said what? Give me a break! I'm a redneck hilljack with an 8th grade education. I forgot about the win prediction so I will wave that post. Actually I didn't think you knew enough about what was going on to be able to predict a win total on your own.

i don't, so i'll wave back. um, are we waving or waiving?

Quote:Just copy someone else's prediction and post that. I will let you slide because I like you. Don

they tell me often that i let too much slide for the same reason.

"bulimia nervosa": commonly known as bulimia, is an eating disorder. It is a psychological condition in which the subject engages in recurrent binge eating followed by intentional purging.

"croninimia bullshitosa": commonly known as "Don syndrome," is a sports board posting disorder. It is a pathologic condition in which the poster engages in binge posting on the exact same subject over an extended period of time, in which he ignores the heartfelt entreaties of his fellow posters, and as a result of which he regurgitates the same thing over, and over, and over, and over, and.........over.

i'm hoping for a cure.

Quite possibly the best post i have ever read.

Nah, I've had better.

namrag Wrote:

mc72642 Wrote:

JFlight21 Wrote:Just to clarify for Don. It is Illinois State that UC plays on the road, not Southern Illinois.

Okay thanks! I knew it was Illinois something and they have all their players back and UC was trying to get out of the game because it looks like a loss. Same with UAB. Next year if UC can get out of them, you won't see any non conference games except with teams from a low low conference that will be a sure win. Bring on Tennessee-Martin or someone like that. The days of we will play anyone anywhere are over. Have to sugar coat the record the best we can. Wins always look good even if it's over Little Sisters of the Poor. If UC can get out of the Memphis game and others next year and only play 12 games against Little Sisters of the Poor, going into conference play 12-0 would really look good. Then you only have to win 4 conference games to finish over 500. If you say it fast it sounds good. Don

OK,

Maybe the current program would get on your good side if their OOC schedule included the likes of American, Bethune-Cookman, Brooklyn, Coastal Carolina, Evansville, Fairleigh-Dickinson, Middle Tennesse State, Missouri-Kansas City, Northern Kentucky, Portland, Southern, and Southwest Louisiana State?

All of these teams were on our schedules within the first 3 yrs of Huggs era. Two of the above made repeat appearences during that 3yr period. So that is 14 games over 3 seasons, pretty much dead-on with my "3-4 creampuff wins a season" estimate.

Your dogs just don't hunt.

3 or 4 creampuff wins a season? Try the first 6 on our schedule for this year and next year will be worse. What I said was right on as always. My dogs won't hunt? Well I did tell them to go hunt South Carolina Upstate and they laid down and went to sleep. Don

rath v2.0 Wrote:Don,

Now that its out, made my prediction. 17 wins....tied for 10th in conference.

BTW: only a handfull of folks needing some wins bad to forget 11-19. Way in the rear view mirror for most.

I would almost of bet money you would come up with one more win total than me just so you wouldn't look bad. Problem is I streched my win total to the max so you are on the wrong side. At least with fans who know what's going on putting on 15,16, 17, and 18 win predictions everybody now knows what to expect. I hope everybody can now appreciate us letting them know what is going to happen. Don

I just looked at the schedule - even giving wins over miami, st johns home and away, and providence, it will be tough to get past 13 wins. Hoping for a couple of upsets - without being upset themselves. not an easy schedule, especially in the january to february time period.

And who is Peggy Cronin? The classic is named for her. Is that Mick's mom? Did she pass away?

Thought Mick said on the radio a while back that his mom passed away after a fight with breast cancer so this was going to be a memorial and a way to raise awareness, etc.

I looked at that schedule and I hate it. I understand a few creampuffs early on. But its entirely front-loaded with cream puffs, with all the hard nonconf games at the end of the nonconf schedule before going on the road for the first TWO conf games! WTF?? I would have liked to see two cream puffs and then work in a few of the decent nonconf opponents as opposed to the way it is, and thanks to the BE conference schedulers for giving us UofL on the road followed by St. Johns at MSG. Real nice. Seeing this schedule makes me downgrade my win total byt a few. I'm thinking 16-17 wins. Sadly, I'll take that win total as long as I see improvement throughout the year, like guys figuring out how to guard the 3 pt shot or quickly finding themselves on the bench if they do not.

Murph29 Wrote:I looked at that schedule and I hate it. I understand a few creampuffs early on. But its entirely front-loaded with cream puffs, with all the hard nonconf games at the end of the nonconf schedule before going on the road for the first TWO conf games! WTF?? I would have liked to see two cream puffs and then work in a few of the decent nonconf opponents as opposed to the way it is, and thanks to the BE conference schedulers for giving us UofL on the road followed by St. Johns at MSG. Real nice. Seeing this schedule makes me downgrade my win total byt a few. I'm thinking 16-17 wins. Sadly, I'll take that win total as long as I see improvement throughout the year, like guys figuring out how to guard the 3 pt shot or quickly finding themselves on the bench if they do not.

The 6 cream puffs at the start will make a nice 6-0 start to the season plus Mick can play the freshmen and see if he can use any of them later. Starting the season off with a couple losses early wouldn't do the fan base any good. St. Johns is one of the bottom feeders in the league. If UC can't beat them it will be a really long year. Don