(08-08-2011 12:55 PM)BigEastFan99 Wrote:  

(08-08-2011 12:34 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  Not even close. C-USA is a one team league (since realignment). The A-10 has as many as four teams in the tourney each year, and are located in areas where people pay much more attention to basketball, and where the teams have much more basketball tradition.

Not sure how factually accurate this comment is.

If you take Temple out of the A10 mix, as they would be one of the teams moving, how do the A10 and C-USA compare?
Tournament appearances they are probably about equal over the past 5 years. They each have one elite team, Xavier and Memphis. They each have random teams that come out to make the tournament, like a Richmond or a UAB.

The only reason A10 looks slightly better than C-USA is because of Temple. If Temple were in C-USA then they would look better than the A10. And with UMass also making the switch then C-USA looks even better as UMass is generally a top half A10 team.

I think the high end exposure of a Temple v. Memphis rivalry is at least as good, if not better than the Temple v. Xavier television draw. Temple would keep their rivalry with UMass. Temple could keep playing the Philly A10 schools anyway out of conference.

So really, Temple would be trading Xavier for Memphis, and then missing out on Dayton, St. Louis, Fordham, GW, Richmond, URI, St. Bonaventure, UNC Charlotte and Duquesne. (and yes, I had to look up the A10 in order to remember half of these teams)

It seems like C-USA has more upside than the MAC in football, and then Temple and UMass could form some hardwood rivalries that would be comparable to the A10 in basketball.

This is my opinion.

Umass has only finished in the top 4 of the A-10 2 times since 2001-02...They are not a top-half A-10 team and haven't been for a while...

(08-08-2011 12:48 PM)MUHERD76 Wrote:  Where is the love for App State for the Mac? Hear me out here for a moment....I obviously don't think App State is ready for a C-USA type of jump but could certainly do well in the Mac or Sunbelt. If I were the Mac conference I would be looking at schools that have fans unlike a lot of MAC members. Your best and most realistic options to get to 16 are probably Delaware and App State. Just my opinion.

Any fan pimping a team who's post begins

"I obviously don't think App State is ready for a C-USA type of jump"

Is either flame bait or just foolishness.

It means you're looking for a couch to sleep on for a year or two. While anyone in the MAC would move to an AQ conference the same can not be said of CUSA (some might some might not but the driving thought of their fan base is not "We can't wait to get out of here")

UMass at least has a name. People remember Marcus Camby making the Final 4, and Dr. J did go there. Compared with most of the A10 and C-USA, that little bit is enough.

Anyway, Temple basketball is the crown jewel in all of this. Temple basketball, Xavier basketball and Memphis basketball are really the only three nationally respected sports programs out of the entire A10 & C-USA.

(08-08-2011 12:34 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  

(08-08-2011 03:29 AM)Louis Kitton Wrote:  6) WKU would bring a presence for the MAC across the state of Kentucky and considerable tradition in men's basketball.

just for clarification, WKU does not have any pull in Kentucky outside of Bowling Green. however, if they MAC were to expand, they certainly would be better off by looking towards basketball schools. Why you may ask ?I don't see any teams they could get adding money to the TV contract. However, add teams likely to be second or third NCAA bids, and the conference makes real money.

I hear you on that as the MAC is leaving on the table unrealized basketball money.

You have to realize though 9 years out of 10 the MAC is better than the SBC in basketball. WKU in the MAC would likely be placed in the East division and suffer through a log jam of conference losses to Miami, Kent, Akron, and Ohio.

Temple is the only school that would be a regular in the NCAAs if they played in the MAC and they would make the NCAAs along with a second MAC school in most years. I do think in some ways MAC basketball is better than the A10 because of the conference tournament the league has in Cleveland which is an excellent neutral site when compared to Atlantic City NJ.

Economics may eventually push Temple/UMass into the MAC all sports. The tipping point has come for football and eventually it could come for basketball. Next TV contract maybe?

(08-08-2011 01:08 PM)templefan1 Wrote:  Umass has only finished in the top 4 of the A-10 2 times since 2001-02...They are not a top-half A-10 team and haven't been for a while...

You'll have to pardon the math of Temple Fans...

Half of 14 is 7, not 4... Since 2000 UMass has finished 7, 8, 10, 6, 10, 2, 3, 10, 10, 9.

The Average Finish is 7th They were 7 or Better (top half four times in the past ten years)

(08-08-2011 01:11 PM)BigEastFan99 Wrote:  UMass at least has a name. People remember Marcus Camby making the Final 4, and Dr. J did go there. Compared with most of the A10 and C-USA, that little bit is enough.

Anyway, Temple basketball is the crown jewel in all of this. Temple basketball, Xavier basketball and Memphis basketball are really the only three nationally respected sports programs out of the entire A10 & C-USA.

The reason Temple would join C-USA would be for football. If Temple could join C-USA for football only, they probably would. If the A-10 blows up I could see Temple joining CAA if they could remain a football onyl somewhere. CAA with ODU, GMU, VCU, and Temple would be pretty strong in Bball...that would be 4 top 50 rpi teams as of last season of course

(08-08-2011 01:19 PM)templefan1 Wrote:  The reason Temple would join C-USA would be for football. If Temple could join C-USA for football only, they probably would. If the A-10 blows up I could see Temple joining CAA if they could remain a football onyl somewhere. CAA with ODU, GMU, VCU, and Temple would be pretty strong in Bball...that would be 4 top 50 rpi teams as of last season of course

Why? Why not just join C-USA for all sports? Travel distance would not be too much different. A Temple v. Memphis game would be a pretty good draw, and the other C-USA schools all have pretty good football support and it is a better conference than the MAC.

(08-08-2011 01:11 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(08-08-2011 12:48 PM)MUHERD76 Wrote:  Where is the love for App State for the Mac? Hear me out here for a moment....I obviously don't think App State is ready for a C-USA type of jump but could certainly do well in the Mac or Sunbelt. If I were the Mac conference I would be looking at schools that have fans unlike a lot of MAC members. Your best and most realistic options to get to 16 are probably Delaware and App State. Just my opinion.

Any fan pimping a team who's post begins

"I obviously don't think App State is ready for a C-USA type of jump"

Is either flame bait or just foolishness.

It means you're looking for a couch to sleep on for a year or two. While anyone in the MAC would move to an AQ conference the same can not be said of CUSA (some might some might not but the driving thought of their fan base is not "We can't wait to get out of here")

+1

Why would anyone in the MAC want to head to CUSA when the league is just a couple of years away from adding more bowls and improving the TV deal to the CUSA level?

Temple/UMass have the large buyout. For political reasons the Ohio schools want to stay together. There is also travel, budget and philosophy uniting those schools. Marshall had a different philosophy than the MAC and that is why they left.

(08-08-2011 01:22 PM)Louis Kitton Wrote:  

(08-08-2011 01:11 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(08-08-2011 12:48 PM)MUHERD76 Wrote:  Where is the love for App State for the Mac? Hear me out here for a moment....I obviously don't think App State is ready for a C-USA type of jump but could certainly do well in the Mac or Sunbelt. If I were the Mac conference I would be looking at schools that have fans unlike a lot of MAC members. Your best and most realistic options to get to 16 are probably Delaware and App State. Just my opinion.

Any fan pimping a team who's post begins

"I obviously don't think App State is ready for a C-USA type of jump"

Is either flame bait or just foolishness.

It means you're looking for a couch to sleep on for a year or two. While anyone in the MAC would move to an AQ conference the same can not be said of CUSA (some might some might not but the driving thought of their fan base is not "We can't wait to get out of here")

+1

Why would anyone in the MAC want to head to CUSA when the league is just a couple of years away from adding more bowls and improving the TV deal to the CUSA level?

Temple/UMass have the large buyout. For political reasons the Ohio schools want to stay together. There is also travel, budget and philosophy uniting those schools. Marshall had a different philosophy than the MAC and that is why they left.

The 2.5 Million is Conference USA insurance. Any team that wanted to move to CUSA would basically have to give two years of CUSA tv revenue to the MAC.

The Big East or ACC could pay Temple/ Umass enough to leave but I doubt CUSA looks too good right now.

Its also important to look at these candidates in regard to the amount of in-state talent filling their rosters. Some of the eastern schools lack the talent base to compete in FBS football.

Number of In-State players by school:

Florida International (69)
James Madison (44)
Stony Brook (41)
Western Kentucky (25)
Delaware (13)

I know that it seems natural for some for WKU to the MAC West and Delaware to the MAC East. The reality is the MAC already rejected WKU because of academics five years ago and Delaware doesn't want to move up.

Then if you look at the talent, the MAC could help itself out the most by adding another Florida school, a program with a strong local talent base in JMU both of which now have MAC level football facilities.

(08-08-2011 12:39 PM)Goldenbuc Wrote:  I don't see FIU wanting to be a part of this. Being on an island at that level is not fun...especially at the level of the MAC. It's one thing to be like TCU or USF in the Big East...the Big East is a BCS AQ conference. It's worth the move and being alone in a BCS conference. I remember the 3 years UCF was in the MAC and there was zero in common with any of those teams and no rivalries established. Marshall was the closest to a rival we had...but mainly because they were the team to beat in the MAC, back then.

FIU would not benefit from the move, imo.

Below are few points.

-FIU would still play FAU in football eitherway. It wouldn't matter what conference then FIU played in.

-FIU would then be trading out Troy, USA, WKU, MTSU, A-State, ULL, ULM, UNT on the schedule for Temple, UMass, JMU, Buffalo, Ohio, Kent, Akron. The MAC East is a much better academic conference than the SBC.

-The MAC is going to do 1 of 2 things when the TV negotiations come up in 2016. Either the MAC is going to stay with ESPN for even greater exposure or money OR they will be going for CUSA level dollars to NBC Sports.

ESPN may make the MAC their top non-AQ property since they don't have CUSA/MWC and with the WAC in oblivion. The MAC with Temple, UMass, JMU, FIU in all sports could be worth 10 mil a year to ESPN (close to CUSA money but better brand exposure).

-MAC entrace fees (500,000) are much more modest in comparison to what FIU would have to spend to join CUSA (1.5 million) for basically the same conference benefits.

(08-08-2011 02:03 PM)Louis Kitton Wrote:  

(08-08-2011 12:39 PM)Goldenbuc Wrote:  I don't see FIU wanting to be a part of this. Being on an island at that level is not fun...especially at the level of the MAC. It's one thing to be like TCU or USF in the Big East...the Big East is a BCS AQ conference. It's worth the move and being alone in a BCS conference. I remember the 3 years UCF was in the MAC and there was zero in common with any of those teams and no rivalries established. Marshall was the closest to a rival we had...but mainly because they were the team to beat in the MAC, back then.

FIU would not benefit from the move, imo.

Below are few points.

-FIU would still play FAU in football eitherway. It wouldn't matter what conference then FIU played in.

-FIU would then be trading out Troy, USA, WKU, MTSU, A-State, ULL, ULM, UNT on the schedule for Temple, UMass, JMU, Buffalo, Ohio, Kent, Akron. The MAC East is a much better academic conference than the SBC.

-The MAC is going to do 1 of 2 things when the TV negotiations come up in 2016. Either the MAC is going to stay with ESPN for even greater exposure or money OR they will be going for CUSA level dollars to NBC Sports.

ESPN may make the MAC their top non-AQ property since they don't have CUSA/MWC and with the WAC in oblivion. The MAC with Temple, UMass, JMU, FIU in all sports could be worth 10 mil a year to ESPN (close to CUSA money but better brand exposure).

-MAC entrace fees (500,000) are much more modest in comparison to what FIU would have to spend to join CUSA (1.5 million) for basically the same conference benefits.

As a meaningless side note, for Men's soccer the FAU Owls are an affiliate member of the MAC and the FIU Panthers are an affiliate member of C-USA.

(08-08-2011 01:11 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(08-08-2011 12:48 PM)MUHERD76 Wrote:  Where is the love for App State for the Mac? Hear me out here for a moment....I obviously don't think App State is ready for a C-USA type of jump but could certainly do well in the Mac or Sunbelt. If I were the Mac conference I would be looking at schools that have fans unlike a lot of MAC members. Your best and most realistic options to get to 16 are probably Delaware and App State. Just my opinion.

Any fan pimping a team who's post begins

"I obviously don't think App State is ready for a C-USA type of jump"

Is either flame bait or just foolishness.

It means you're looking for a couch to sleep on for a year or two. While anyone in the MAC would move to an AQ conference the same can not be said of CUSA (some might some might not but the driving thought of their fan base is not "We can't wait to get out of here")

I'm not pimping any school....and if I was, I sure as hell wouldn't be pimping App State. But give credit where credit is due. App State nearly doubles the average attendance of Buffalo, Akron, Kent, Eastern Michigan and other comparable Mac schools. At least they got fans. The only reason I say App State wouldn't be ready for a jump to CUSA is because of their budget size, location (already a team from NC in CUSA...ECU) TV Market etc. But there's no doubt in my mind App could compete quite well in the Mac or the Sunbelt. They could realistically get their budget to Mac or Sunbelt standards.

(08-08-2011 08:21 PM)MUHERD76 Wrote:  

(08-08-2011 01:11 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(08-08-2011 12:48 PM)MUHERD76 Wrote:  Where is the love for App State for the Mac? Hear me out here for a moment....I obviously don't think App State is ready for a C-USA type of jump but could certainly do well in the Mac or Sunbelt. If I were the Mac conference I would be looking at schools that have fans unlike a lot of MAC members. Your best and most realistic options to get to 16 are probably Delaware and App State. Just my opinion.

Any fan pimping a team who's post begins

"I obviously don't think App State is ready for a C-USA type of jump"

Is either flame bait or just foolishness.

It means you're looking for a couch to sleep on for a year or two. While anyone in the MAC would move to an AQ conference the same can not be said of CUSA (some might some might not but the driving thought of their fan base is not "We can't wait to get out of here")

I'm not pimping any school....and if I was, I sure as hell wouldn't be pimping App State. But give credit where credit is due. App State nearly doubles the average attendance of Buffalo, Akron, Kent, Eastern Michigan and other comparable Mac schools. At least they got fans. The only reason I say App State wouldn't be ready for a jump to CUSA is because of their budget size, location (already a team from NC in CUSA...ECU) TV Market etc. But there's no doubt in my mind App could compete quite well in the Mac or the Sunbelt. They could realistically get their budget to Mac or Sunbelt standards.

App could go directly into CUSA from the SoCon and do just fine.

Illinois State should be considered as an all-sports candidate for a 16-team MAC. ISU and Delaware balance geographically and help strengthen both ends of the conference with "state name" programs. They would be my top 2 FCS targets. Delaware could be replaced by JMU or another East Coast FCS team looking to move up.

(08-08-2011 08:21 PM)MUHERD76 Wrote:  I'm not pimping any school....and if I was, I sure as hell wouldn't be pimping App State. But give credit where credit is due. App State nearly doubles the average attendance of Buffalo, Akron, Kent, Eastern Michigan and other comparable Mac schools. At least they got fans

A season's average attendance does not necessarily indicate fan numbers. For example, Buffalo averaged 16K in our championship season, mostly because fans were just starting to catch on to watching a winning product, for a change. Yet, they came out for the biggest game. We brought 30K to the International Bowl and had 116,000 households in WNY watching the game as part of the ~2M nationwide viewing it.

(08-09-2011 12:25 AM)uakronkid Wrote:  Illinois State should be considered as an all-sports candidate for a 16-team MAC. ISU and Delaware balance geographically and help strengthen both ends of the conference with "state name" programs. They would be my top 2 FCS targets. Delaware could be replaced by JMU or another East Coast FCS team looking to move up.

Additional glorified mid-western teacher's colleges that offer neither a nice media market, strong academics, or bowl opportunities, don't really fit what the MAC office has stated they are looking for in candidates.

The MAC office hasn't stated anything either way about what they're looking for in candidates. Mostly because they haven't ever admited to actually be looking for new schools, even when they were busy adding Temple and UMass.

ISU has come a long, long way in the past decade. If you don't like the Redbirds, you could always try convincing Missouri State to join. Good luck with that.

The Dakota schools are not viable, and I'm glad nobody suggested them yet. Youngstown State is pointless, we don't need any more Ohio schools and they would have to double their athletic budget just to get on par with the lowest-spending MAC schools. Anything south of Virginia doesn't fit culturally.

Maybe we should offer LA Tech a home. Kills the WAC (which means a bigger share of the non-AQ pie) and starts a whole bunch of interesting little alignment moves with a few teams joining the Sun belt and the rest going indy or dropping down.

Louis Kitton Wrote:App could go directly into CUSA from the SoCon and do just fine.

Thats BS. There is no way that App could jump from its current 12 Million athletic budget to a comparable CUSA budget of around 22-35 Million. You have to be realistic. Only the Mac and Sunbelt operate with athletic budgets that are currently attainable for App State. Besides, App would be behind the 8-ball when it comes competing with ECU for players. Simply isnt gonna happen.

I do think App would compete well and bring some value to a conference like the Mac or Sunbelt. I'd like to see them move up but time is definitley not on their side now with ODU, Charlotte and others around them in big markets popping up. If the oppurtunity for the Mac or Sunbelt is there for them they need to do it.