Krocker Krapp Wrote:Or an even better idea might be for the ACC to engineer a trade of ... Penn State to itself, BC back to the Big East, and cash considerations plus an academic deal to be named later to the Big Ten :). Temple could try getting back in the Big East on its own merits after improving in the MAC.

That would also help both the ACC and Big East. As a matter of fact, it might even help the Big Ten because it wouldn't be stuck with 11 teams anymore. The biggest benefit to the Big East would be the Big Ten at 10 and the ACC at 12. No more expansion rumors or threats from either side.

Krocker giving us BC and letting Penn State go to a conference where they fit in even less makes no sense for a number of reasons.

It strengthens the ACC that much more while having little real effect on the Big East's strength.
It doesn't really increase our money much while the ACC's money just added another $10 million to their TV contract while splitting the pie the same number of ways.
Penn State doesn't really fit the Big Ten I can't see it fitting in with Clemson, FSU, Wake Forest, and Duke.

Now if you give us Penn State, they gain traditional rivals in Syracuse, Rutgers, Pitt, WVU, and Cincinnati. (Remember Cincy and PSU have some history from the late 70s through the 90s and again now.) They fit in very well with those 5 and UConn. Now they're going to want to bring in Temple which I'm all for as well, which again gives them another school they traditionally play and align with. The next thing would at that point to reach out to UMD and BC to join up and make us 12 members and likely double our current contract's worth and then some.

I'd like to see the ACC add Penn St. and Syracuse and stop at 14

EvilVodka Wrote:I'd like to see the ACC add Penn St. and Syracuse and stop at 14

Yeah the Big Ten would just let them walk right in and swoop out Penn State. There would be a difference to letting PSU join the BE to joining the ACC they add respectability and stability to an ally rather than a much more direct competitor.

Brista, it was a silly attempt at humor. Note the baseball analogy. It's just that most posters and critics, while they feel Penn State will never leave the Big Ten anyway, think the Nittany Lions might be more likely to join the ACC than the Big East. I was just working off that line of thought.

As for Penn State not fitting into the ACC ... why not? Maryland, Virginia, and North Carolina are all flagship state universities. Virginia Tech, North Carolina State, Georgia Tech, and Florida State are all big state universities as well. And then you have the foursome of private schools.

Yes, letting such a move happen would help the ACC. And, no it wouldn't strengthen the Big East, per se. But it would make the Big East more secure. No more rumors or threats of Big Ten or ACC expansion. Both the Western and Southern flanks of the conference would be safe.

Krocker Krapp Wrote:Brista, it was a silly attempt at humor. Note the baseball analogy. It's just that most posters and critics, while they feel Penn State will never leave the Big Ten anyway, think the Nittany Lions might be more likely to join the ACC than the Big East. I was just working off that line of thought.

As for Penn State not fitting into the ACC ... why not? Maryland, Virginia, and North Carolina are all flagship state universities. Virginia Tech, North Carolina State, Georgia Tech, and Florida State are all big state universities as well. And then you have the foursome of private schools.

Yes, letting such a move happen would help the ACC. And, no it wouldn't strengthen the Big East, per se. But it would make the Big East more secure. No more rumors or threats of Big Ten or ACC expansion. Both the Western and Southern flanks of the conference would be safe.

It would definately be enough to stengthen the ACC's hold on the Northeast....right now the ACC barely has their foot in the door with BC....with Syracuse and Penn St., they'd own the Northeast

Quote:Now, according to Swofford, the expansion was never about $$$ anyway it was about power and security as you note...

Not so much power as security. The expansion was for football security....and to protect the NC schools from killing themselves with their lackadasical "Who cares about football cuz it's hoops season" attitudes. If the Virginia Gov hadn't interjected his nose where it didn't belong and hold the ACC hostage both the ACC and the BE would have benefited. The hoopsters in the Tarheel state would have been happy to add another school with hoops on the brain, and the the Big East would have kept one of it's two power schools...the one that saved your BCS bid the first time around and who's huge travelling fanbase make it a bowl darling. As it stands, the ACC lost out on more revenue because it duplicated media markets....and the Big East has to resort to media markets they don't even own to claim BCS authenticity.

Speaking from an SEC fan's point of view, if they were to expand to 14 or had to replace a departed Arkansas, I'm not sure it's a done deal that they raid the Big East, ie. WV and Louisville.
It wouldn't shock me if they fought expansion fire with fire and go after the ACC.
As an SEC fan (Georgia in particular), I'd love to have NC State and/or Florida State in the fold.
I think WV is just too far out of the footprint (you're a stones throw from Pennsylvania! That's up there).
And no disrespect to Louisville, your basketball and football are solid, but we already have a presence in the Kentucky market, where we have no part of other southern markets such as North Carolina, Virginia, and Texas for example.
At this point, I would bet that Florida State fans would be beside themselves with gitty glee to get out of the new Monster Eastern Seaboard ACC and come to the southern centric SEC. Clemson too, for that matter.
I'm not saying it's not possible that UofL, WV, or even Memphis wouldn't make it in an expansion scenerio, I just think that the SEC would exhaust wooing the ACC southern schools first and I feel like NCSt and FSU are the most attainable of the desired.
EAST
Florida
Georgia
South Carolina
North Carolina St.
Tennessee
Vanderbilt
Kentucky
WEST
Florida State
Auburn
Alabama
Miss St.
Ole Miss
LSU
Arkansas

Fair and Balanced.

nm

Not saying it's not impossible, ChooChoo, but I don't think it'd be that easy, if not near impossible.

1) FSU just got done working so hard to bring Miami into the ACC, securing one of their Fla rivals as a conference game and ensuring the general quality of ACC football. Thus, limited NEED for them to look towards the SEC with as much envy.

2) The ACC exit fees are the full conference revenues from the final year, which in FSU's case would be close to $10M. Not an easy pill to swallow for what may be a lateral move.

3) If FSU is interested in being part of a 14 team conference, then surely they've revealed that during the ACC expansions and considerations are on the table for how/if that's a possibility.

4) No matter how you group the teams within that 14 team SEC, someone loses. In your example, look at the west: Bama, Auburn, FSU, LSU, Arkansas... How will the Mississippi schools compete and how will two of those five listed feel about finishing 3rd or worse in their DIVISION on a semi-regular basis? FSU fans are already hacked about their recent ACC performances, this kind of move might simply kill the program.

5) Tobacco Road ties are very strong, but also very personal. If NCSU were to leave for the SEC, their ties with the other 3 NC ACC schools would likely be severed for ever. I don't think NCSU would truly like that. Clemson would be understandable, but also not worth as much, so this seems tough.

Had the SEC been thinking about this at all, they should've nabbed Miami and VT when the pickings were ripe. This is to say nothing of whether Florida fans would even let this happen or if the 14 team scenario would prove profitable.

BTW, congrats on even the glimmer of hope regarding GS football.

Evil Vodka, you are mixing together two different ideas that have worked their way into this thread.

1) ACC greedily expands to 14 by adding Penn State and Syracuse.

2) ACC somehow gets Penn State, then sends BC back to Big East.

The first scenario would be bad for the Big East, but not as bad as if Pitt or West Virginia had've left.

The second scenario would be bad for the Big East but can be overcome much more easily over time.

Quote:BTW, congrats on even the glimmer of hope regarding GS football.

Thanks, I'm trying to stay optimistic.
I don't disagree with any of your counterpoints, they all seem valid.
I just think if the conferences got into a 14 Team p!SS!n match that the SEC would go after whoever they wanted, regardless of conference. I just so happen to like FSU and NCSt.